One day people need to sit down and ask themselves if it were all on Lamar everytime he didn't play great in the O why Phil wouldn't talk about it ....
Triangle is a team O. To get the ball in your scoring spots you do need guys to get you the ball.
The objective of getting Odom on the wing is to make him less of a perimeter threat and more of an interior threat to penetration and post ups.
Eventually this team will get it. Look at last year. Once the playoffs came around, they knew how to get Odom involved that much better.
That being said - I saw a bit too much of "get the ball to Kobe" in the 2nd half. First was just perfect.
If we score 107 points taking 73 shots .... You kinda should be happy with that. LO was also in FT yesterday. It was a game where he even though he was passive .. the Lakers O for the most part ran well. Why is it that we need to make an issue of this every time? Either in a good or bad way?
If the Lakers O sucked and Lamar played that way, I'd be beyond pissed. But on a good (some would say very good) offensive night .. a player being Tri first isn't a bad thing.
As I mentioned, the Lakers have really done a poor job feeding the post. Seems like I bring it up every game. That said, LO still needs to be more aggressive, as well as aggressively pursue the ball. If Kobe was posting up, does anybody really think he wouldn't get the ball? If they didn't get him the ball, you better believe they would hear about. Well, LO needs to assert himself in the same manner when the guys start passing up opportunities to get him the ball. That is part of being aggressive.
^
DB, I agree that's what you do in principle. Bynum already has shown that mentality.
Odom? It's just not in him. Rarely does he start screaming at teammates to get him the ball.
Odom was on the highpost asking for the ball 3 consecutive times and I saw it swing over to the other side. Odom just doesn't react the way most stars in the league would in that situation. He also lacks that "get mine" mentality. Even when having 6 points going through 3 qtrs if the offense is running well, his first inclination will be to run the Triangle. Most stars in the league will at that point start playing 1 on 1. Odom? Look to make the right pass in the Triangle.
Now I'm not saying he is without fault, but somewhere along the lway people will just need to accept that is who he is as a on court personailty. If it were as big an issue that some people make it out to be - Phil would be on his case.
It's a problem. Phil and Tex wouldn't be tinkering with various aspects of the Tri to get him going if it wasn't a problem. LO doesn't have to "get mine"...he needs to use his skills to collapse the D. Good things...for the team...will follow when he does that. The Tri needs players to do that because as soon as you start having to compensate for getting bled on one spot, the Tri will counter to bleed you from what you give up when you compensate. Aggressiveness from Lamar doesn't mean just points, it means collapsing the D, getting assists, etc. -- when he's aggressive the scores and trips to the FT line will follow.
The battle may not be in the Press from Phil, but it is certainly seen in the X's and O's.
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject:
DancingBarry wrote:
It's a problem. Phil and Tex wouldn't be tinkering with various aspects of the Tri to get him going if it wasn't a problem. LO doesn't have to "get mine"...he needs to use his skills to collapse the D. Good things...for the team...will follow when he does that. The Tri needs players to do that because as soon as you start having to compensate for getting bled on one spot, the Tri will counter to bleed you from what you give up when you compensate. Aggressiveness from Lamar doesn't mean just points, it means collapsing the D, getting assists, etc. -- when he's aggressive the scores and trips to the FT line will follow.
The battle may not be in the Press from Phil, but it is certainly seen in the X's and O's.
It certainly is. Does anyone really think it was Phil's intention to put the ball back in Kobe's hands this soon?? Like I said the continued development of the success of triangle is hinged on keeping defenses honest. An aggressive Lamar Odom makes a defense play honest. A passive and/or sleepwalking Lamar Odom floods the defense to one side of the floor....wherever Kobe happens to be.
Lamar is way too skilled a basketball player to still need people to hold his hand. Kobe shouldn't have to get Lamar shots. Lamar should be using Kobe to get himself shots. As I said earlier, he doesn't have to take 20 shots a game, but 8 is unacceptable. He has to be a threat. He has to give the defense a reason to pay attention to him and respect his game. But that's not gonna happen allowing scrubs like Smush Parker to wave him off in the post. I mean really, Smush Parker??
Phil and the staff are continuing to tinker with the ballhandling duties, trying to find some comfort zone for Lamar so he'll take advantage of all his vast abilities. _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe.
It's a problem. Phil and Tex wouldn't be tinkering with various aspects of the Tri to get him going if it wasn't a problem. LO doesn't have to "get mine"...he needs to use his skills to collapse the D. Good things...for the team...will follow when he does that. The Tri needs players to do that because as soon as you start having to compensate for getting bled on one spot, the Tri will counter to bleed you from what you give up when you compensate. Aggressiveness from Lamar doesn't mean just points, it means collapsing the D, getting assists, etc. -- when he's aggressive the scores and trips to the FT line will follow.
The battle may not be in the Press from Phil, but it is certainly seen in the X's and O's.
I agree with that, what I'm saying is that there's a difference in saying what you'll do and actually going out and doing it.
They know Lamar is going to break down the defense, yet they ignore him on the highpost a number of times in a row. That is what I was talking about. If Lamar is going to do all that he is supposed to, then he needs the ball. If the ball is not swung to him in his scoring spots ... then what can he do other that have that "get mine" mentality that some pure scorers have. If he just starts dribble penetrating every time he gets a touch - that's not going to make the coaching staff too happy, either. What he has to do is work the Triangle and get his shots through the Triangle sets. One of the plays that they run really well is where Lamar gets the ball either in the highpost or the low post.
It's hard to explain, I guess. I mean the coaching staff may want one thing to happen but when the team goes out there, they tend to do something else. Lamar by all means can just go out there and start penetrating - but IMO what they want him doing is getting more shots in the post. If the team doesn't find him in the spots ... that's not going to result in a high volume of shots. It's the same thing with Bynum. They can't seem to find him when he has really good position enough and at the same time when they do find him, they don't play off him as much as they should.
One can chalk is up to being early execution norms ... a team not always playing on the same page knowing where the best mismatch is. Eventually I think they will know where they have to look for and which teammate's.
And as for Odom demanding the ball in his spots, he does. Just nowhere near with the level a Kobe Bryant does. If we want him to start becoming that sort of player ... won't happen IMO. Odom is just not that sort of personality where he stats screaming at teammates for not giving him the ball.
Lakers have really done a poor job feeding the post. LO still needs to be more aggressive, as well as aggressively pursue the ball.
Does it appear that they are not finding the "right angles" (as Stu often states) to enter the ball into the post or that the offense just gets static?
Should LO mainly try to get the ball in the low post or should they work on getting him on the high post (ala Brad Miller)? Even when Shaq was at the "5" - they often didn't give him the ball in the post.
If Smush is not an offensive threat, often his man just go off of him to double down in the post - as has been done many times when Bynum is playing. Could this be the reason why Smush is station is Alaska to shoot the "3" - to make it harder for his defender to go back to Smush. Of course, if Smush was slashing/driving/moving/making SOME shots/, this would be as much as a problem.
Does anybody else notice that when Farmar is in the game, it is easier to pass the ball into the post?
It's a problem. Phil and Tex wouldn't be tinkering with various aspects of the Tri to get him going if it wasn't a problem. LO doesn't have to "get mine"...he needs to use his skills to collapse the D. Good things...for the team...will follow when he does that. The Tri needs players to do that because as soon as you start having to compensate for getting bled on one spot, the Tri will counter to bleed you from what you give up when you compensate. Aggressiveness from Lamar doesn't mean just points, it means collapsing the D, getting assists, etc. -- when he's aggressive the scores and trips to the FT line will follow.
The battle may not be in the Press from Phil, but it is certainly seen in the X's and O's.
I agree with that, what I'm saying is that there's a difference in saying what you'll do and actually going out and doing it.
They know Lamar is going to break down the defense, yet they ignore him on the highpost a number of times in a row. That is what I was talking about. If Lamar is going to do all that he is supposed to, then he needs the ball. If the ball is not swung to him in his scoring spots ... then what can he do other that have that "get mine" mentality that some pure scorers have. If he just starts dribble penetrating every time he gets a touch - that's not going to make the coaching staff too happy, either. What he has to do is work the Triangle and get his shots through the Triangle sets. One of the plays that they run really well is where Lamar gets the ball either in the highpost or the low post.
It's hard to explain, I guess. I mean the coaching staff may want one thing to happen but when the team goes out there, they tend to do something else. Lamar by all means can just go out there and start penetrating - but IMO what they want him doing is getting more shots in the post. If the team doesn't find him in the spots ... that's not going to result in a high volume of shots. It's the same thing with Bynum. They can't seem to find him when he has really good position enough and at the same time when they do find him, they don't play off him as much as they should.
One can chalk is up to being early execution norms ... a team not always playing on the same page knowing where the best mismatch is. Eventually I think they will know where they have to look for and which teammate's.
And as for Odom demanding the ball in his spots, he does. Just nowhere near with the level a Kobe Bryant does. If we want him to start becoming that sort of player ... won't happen IMO. Odom is just not that sort of personality where he stats screaming at teammates for not giving him the ball.
Bleep that then. I want odom yelling at players for not giving the ball. This team needs someone other than kobe (and bynum doing that). If odom gets into good position and he doesn't get the ball then i expect that player who refused to give him the ball faces the wrath or lamar odom. _________________
Lakers have really done a poor job feeding the post. LO still needs to be more aggressive, as well as aggressively pursue the ball.
Does it appear that they are not finding the "right angles" (as Stu often states) to enter the ball into the post or that the offense just gets static?
I think most of the angles have gotten better (unless we are forced to go to counters). The ones that are baffling are when the pass is there and guys just swing it around for no real reason. I know ball reversals are part of the offense, but these aren't ball reversals...they are just guys seeing the swing pass as an easier pass a lot of times. I swear I can still hear Bynum's "throw me the (bleep)ing ball" go through my head everytime we pass up a post entry to him, LO, Kwame, etc. It happens a lot and the post guy is like "what the hell?".
They sure don't seem to have a problem getting the ball to Kobe in the post whenever he was/is there.
I'm sure it will smooth out. Especially if Phil is starting to comment about it publically. Last year, we certainly didn't trust throwing the ball into the post early in the season, but did a much better job later.
5 rbs also indicates how passive LO was in last night's game. I believe that the team can sense who the aggressive ones are and deliver them the ball. When Luke was playing well, he was often the recipient of the passes. IF LO constantly fights for postion or moves without the ball, it's very hard to ignore him and not pass to him. Please no more excuses for LO. His career is filled with excuses. I really wish that he could finally break through and get the all-star recognition he's been longing for. _________________ "I think I've been forgotten about a little bit as far as what I can do on the basketball court,'' the Los Angeles Lakers star guard said, "People forget."
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