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2The4th
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Joined: 22 Apr 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 2The4th wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | nokio wrote: | Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.
Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise. |
Artest would be a disaster in the triangle. The guy is a ballhog who thinks he should always be the #1 option, he would destroy ball movement in the triangle. |
Artest can score while posting. He'd be perfect for the high post. As for ball hog or not, players can change their styles of play. Ariza's is a ball hog too. I still remember him jacking up jumper after jumper. However, there's no deny that Artest can give Lakers another layer of offense if the triangle, the pick n' roll stop working. |
That's the way to add to your title team, bring in a player and "hope" that he can change the ways he has exhibited so far in his career. For vet min maybe, ala JR Rider. That way if he acts up, he can be gone easily. |
Dennis Rodman is a proven headcase that worked in a Phil Jackson system. I believe PJ is zen enough to prevent Artest's self destruction. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| RePLAY wrote: | | sone212 wrote: | | RePLAY wrote: | | If you had to pay a guy the same amount of money, you would chose Ariza? oh god. |
Over Ron Artest? Absolutely. He's younger, not a headcase, has more of an upside and is a better fit for this Lakers team. |
Younger, yes. Not a headcase, probably.
We wont know if Artest is a better fit since we dont have him. "Upside" for Ariza? Artest is already there. |
I think the correct statement is that Artest was already there.
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Bushido824
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Joined: 08 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Cavs pursuing Artest....we might need to make a decision quick. If Ariza hasn't accepted an offer of 6 years 39 mil yet and then just offer the MLE to Artest.
Artest>Ariza anyway.
The Cavs would be scary as hell with Artest
Mo/Delonte
Artest/Gibson
Lebron
Varejao/Hickson
SHaq/Z
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Take away Kobe's skills, leadership, intangibles, and rings and add a couple inches, 40 pounds, and some jumping ability...and you're left with Lebron. |
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RePLAY
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bushido824 wrote: | Cavs pursuing Artest....we might need to make a decision quick. If Ariza hasn't accepted an offer of 6 years 39 mil yet and then just offer the MLE to Artest.
Artest>Ariza anyway.
The Cavs would be scary as hell with Artest
Mo/Delonte
Artest/Gibson
Lebron
Varejao/Hickson
SHaq/Z |
Looks like some people in here would rather have Walton then Artest as a starter. =P |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| 2The4th wrote: |
Dennis Rodman is a proven headcase that worked in a Phil Jackson system. I believe PJ is zen enough to prevent Artest's self destruction. |
It's too late for that. And how did Rodman work out with the Lakers? And how long do you expect Phil to be here? Vet min, nothing else.
As I said, it is easier to hope a leopard will change his spots than to look elsewhere. There are better choices out there, especially considering the money Artest will expect to earn. Why bring in a proven cancer, and instead bring in a player who has a reputation for sanity in the league?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| RePLAY wrote: | | Bushido824 wrote: | Cavs pursuing Artest....we might need to make a decision quick. If Ariza hasn't accepted an offer of 6 years 39 mil yet and then just offer the MLE to Artest.
Artest>Ariza anyway.
The Cavs would be scary as hell with Artest
Mo/Delonte
Artest/Gibson
Lebron
Varejao/Hickson
SHaq/Z |
Looks like some people in here would rather have Walton then Artest as a starter. =P |
If that is all the creativity you have then it is a good thing you aren't in the Laker FO.
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revgen
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| nokio wrote: | Artest - better shooter/scorer, defender, rebounder, playmaker, and a better fit for the Triangle because he's a good post player and most 3's can't handle his strength.
Ariza - Their is really nothing Ariza does better than Artest skill wise. |
Ariza is a better help defender than Artest. He has a better knack for tracking loose balls and rebounds. He also seems to make big shots in the clutch. And he seems to execute these skills at the right moments when his team needs it.
Artest is a better shooter, but not necessarily a clutch shooter under pressure like Ariza. He's a bettter man-defender, but not as proficient on help defense as Ariza. He does have a postup game that Ariza doesn't have. Also he doesn't have the nose for the ball like Ariza does. And unlike Ariza, Artest doesn't necessarily find a way to use these skills right when his team needs him.
Bottomline, Artest has more skills than Ariza, but Ariza's skills are a pretty unique set of skills that most players, including Artest, really don't have. He's also a proven champion who we know we can win a championship with. Artest, on the other hand, has proven to lose his cool under pressure. I'd rather keep Ariza than have Artest, but if we can't keep Ariza, then Artest is a good option to look at.
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Last edited by revgen on Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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It is all just interweb discussion anyway, Artest won't be a Laker.
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RePLAY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | RePLAY wrote: | | Bushido824 wrote: | Cavs pursuing Artest....we might need to make a decision quick. If Ariza hasn't accepted an offer of 6 years 39 mil yet and then just offer the MLE to Artest.
Artest>Ariza anyway.
The Cavs would be scary as hell with Artest
Mo/Delonte
Artest/Gibson
Lebron
Varejao/Hickson
SHaq/Z |
Looks like some people in here would rather have Walton then Artest as a starter. =P |
If that is all the creativity you have then it is a good thing you aren't in the Laker FO. |
So who do you have in mind mr. big bad moderator? |
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Bushido824
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Artest or Marion are two suitable options out there and I'd muc rather have Artest.
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Take away Kobe's skills, leadership, intangibles, and rings and add a couple inches, 40 pounds, and some jumping ability...and you're left with Lebron. |
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davidse
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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artest is better than ariza in every way.
but ariza has the most important thing going for him - he's been PROVEN to work in our line up and our system.
and no matter how sure some of us are that artest would work out great too - there is no reason to risk it IF the option of keeping ariza is there financialy - especially when you add the age factor on top of it all.
so IF ariza is affordable, IF we can keep him, and IF it doesn't cost us odom or brown - he should be the preferred choice in this case.
if ariza leaves - artest is one of the absolute best options, and if buss wins the world championship in poker - i'd love to add artest regardess...  |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I was just watching a Pacer game on ESPN Classic..Boy has Artest defensive game fallen off...
Also Artest did shoot 40% from 3...Thing is he is very streaky...One month he has a series like the did aganist the Lakers and then the next two he cant miss for the most part
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Luke
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Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 5004
Location: Deep Europe
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Bushido824 wrote: | Cavs pursuing Artest....we might need to make a decision quick. If Ariza hasn't accepted an offer of 6 years 39 mil yet and then just offer the MLE to Artest.
Artest>Ariza anyway.
The Cavs would be scary as hell with Artest
Mo/Delonte
Artest/Gibson
Lebron
Varejao/Hickson
SHaq/Z |
Varejao is not a sure thing, he could very well leave.
Also, I want to see an offense with Ron, Shaq and Lebron, three guys who wants the ball in their hands : it could be an offensive nightmare for the Cavs, because Brown has never been a great offensive coach.
About the defense : both Artest and Shaq have lost a step ( or two).
I don't know if they would beat Orlando or Boston (with KG and some new players) |
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laorellana2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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First off I LOVE Trevor and LO and all that they did but here is my thinking:
Artest is a better defender, rebounder and scorer than Trevor is. No matter what happened in the postseason that fact is undeniable.
We can probably get him for the same amount of money.
But most of all I agree that a Snaq, Lebronze and Artest team would be pretty scary.
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sone212
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| laorellana2003 wrote: | Artest is a better defender, rebounder and scorer than Trevor is. No matter what happened in the postseason that fact is undeniable.
We can probably get him for the same amount of money. |
Yeah, because he's older, a head case and streaky. They're times he can't miss, then others when he wouldn't hit water if he was thrown in the Atlantic. There's a reason why a player of his defensive caliber has been on four different teams. Artest might be a better player but that doesn't mean he is better for the Lakers nor that they should take a risk with him. |
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calistrtballr
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Posts: 6352
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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sign 'em all. Buss needs to go Tony Montana style and not give a fwuk about money 
Fisher/Farmar
Kobe/Brown
Artest/Trev
Gasol/Odom/Powell
Bynum/Benga
back to reality.......
damn u sasha & luke! |
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laorellana2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| sone212 wrote: | | laorellana2003 wrote: | Artest is a better defender, rebounder and scorer than Trevor is. No matter what happened in the postseason that fact is undeniable.
We can probably get him for the same amount of money. |
Yeah, because he's older, a head case and streaky. They're times he can't miss, then others when he wouldn't hit water if he was thrown in the Atlantic. There's a reason why a player of his defensive caliber has been on four different teams. Artest might be a better player but that doesn't mean he is better for the Lakers nor that they should take a risk with him. |
Agreed but we have Phil and if he can deal with Dennis (bleep) Rodman than he can handle Artest. No matter what age or state Phil is in, that I guarantee you. And if you are gonna talk about streaky was Ariza that consistent the whole year?
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"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess."
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sone212
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| laorellana2003 wrote: | | Agreed but we have Phil and if he can deal with Dennis (bleep) Rodman than he can handle Artest. No matter what age or state Phil is in, that I guarantee you. And if you are gonna talk about streaky was Ariza that consistent the whole year? |
More consistent than Artest. Ariza doesn't go from red hot to ice cold. There's a much better balance with him. From off the bench to being a starter. I'm not saying that Phil cannot handle Artest just that the Lakers do not need to risk it. I'll more than admit, I'm heavily biased against players that do not have good, decent heads on their shoulders. |
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| laorellana2003 wrote: | | sone212 wrote: | | laorellana2003 wrote: | Artest is a better defender, rebounder and scorer than Trevor is. No matter what happened in the postseason that fact is undeniable.
We can probably get him for the same amount of money. |
Yeah, because he's older, a head case and streaky. They're times he can't miss, then others when he wouldn't hit water if he was thrown in the Atlantic. There's a reason why a player of his defensive caliber has been on four different teams. Artest might be a better player but that doesn't mean he is better for the Lakers nor that they should take a risk with him. |
Agreed but we have Phil and if he can deal with Dennis (bleep) Rodman than he can handle Artest. No matter what age or state Phil is in, that I guarantee you. And if you are gonna talk about streaky was Ariza that consistent the whole year? |
Phil dealt with Rodman over 10 years ago. Even the most zen of zen will eventually reach a point where they don't want to have to deal with that kind of crap.
Plus, Rodman never decided it was up to him to singlehandedly win a game with his shooting, regardless of whether it was hot or cold. |
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PushingtheLimit
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Futuristic wrote: | | What's sad about this whole thing is that the Lakers could actually have LO, Ariza and Artest at the same time if I'm not mistaken. If the Lakers had an owner like Mark Cuban, this would not be an issue and the Lakers would be more about winning that money. |
Please refresh my memory.. What has Cuban won in the last 9 years of his majority ownership? Lakers know only about winning and nothing else. |
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laorellana2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | laorellana2003 wrote: | | sone212 wrote: | | laorellana2003 wrote: | Artest is a better defender, rebounder and scorer than Trevor is. No matter what happened in the postseason that fact is undeniable.
We can probably get him for the same amount of money. |
Yeah, because he's older, a head case and streaky. They're times he can't miss, then others when he wouldn't hit water if he was thrown in the Atlantic. There's a reason why a player of his defensive caliber has been on four different teams. Artest might be a better player but that doesn't mean he is better for the Lakers nor that they should take a risk with him. |
Agreed but we have Phil and if he can deal with Dennis (bleep) Rodman than he can handle Artest. No matter what age or state Phil is in, that I guarantee you. And if you are gonna talk about streaky was Ariza that consistent the whole year? |
Phil dealt with Rodman over 10 years ago. Even the most zen of zen will eventually reach a point where they don't want to have to deal with that kind of crap.
Plus, Rodman never decided it was up to him to singlehandedly win a game with his shooting, regardless of whether it was hot or cold. |
Ah but on your point he can't do that on this team cause there will be a guy named Kobe Bryant that will take on those duties so you can throw that whole theory out the window
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"These young guys are playing checkers. I'm out there playing chess."
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hollyweird
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PushingtheLimit wrote: | | Futuristic wrote: | | What's sad about this whole thing is that the Lakers could actually have LO, Ariza and Artest at the same time if I'm not mistaken. If the Lakers had an owner like Mark Cuban, this would not be an issue and the Lakers would be more about winning that money. |
Please refresh my memory.. What has Cuban won in the last 9 years of his majority ownership? Lakers know only about winning and nothing else. |
Uh. I don't really care about this argument either way, but Cuban did put a championship team together that was denied rings by refs in the most blatant act of NBA series engineering EVER. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Also Artest did shoot 40% from 3...Thing is he is very streaky...One month he has a series like the did aganist the Lakers and then the next two he cant miss for the most part |
If you look at the stats over the past 2-3 years, Artest has been very consistent from 3-point land on a month to month basis -- much more so than Trevor. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| laorellana2003 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | laorellana2003 wrote: | | sone212 wrote: | | laorellana2003 wrote: | Artest is a better defender, rebounder and scorer than Trevor is. No matter what happened in the postseason that fact is undeniable.
We can probably get him for the same amount of money. |
Yeah, because he's older, a head case and streaky. They're times he can't miss, then others when he wouldn't hit water if he was thrown in the Atlantic. There's a reason why a player of his defensive caliber has been on four different teams. Artest might be a better player but that doesn't mean he is better for the Lakers nor that they should take a risk with him. |
Agreed but we have Phil and if he can deal with Dennis (bleep) Rodman than he can handle Artest. No matter what age or state Phil is in, that I guarantee you. And if you are gonna talk about streaky was Ariza that consistent the whole year? |
Phil dealt with Rodman over 10 years ago. Even the most zen of zen will eventually reach a point where they don't want to have to deal with that kind of crap.
Plus, Rodman never decided it was up to him to singlehandedly win a game with his shooting, regardless of whether it was hot or cold. |
Ah but on your point he can't do that on this team cause there will be a guy named Kobe Bryant that will take on those duties so you can throw that whole theory out the window |
Artest has taken it upon himself to do just that in games where others were far more efficient than he was. He didn't take it upon himself to get those players the ball as often as possible under those circumstances, he just fired away. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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If Artest is more concerned about $$ then he will stay in Houston (assuming we want to pay him). If he cares more about winning then he will sign with a contender. His brother's twitter page (twitter I believe...one of his social pages) claim's Artest isn't taking an MLE deal.
Ariza is better at knowing his role than Ron, and he is younger. I do think Artest is the better player though. He is a better player on both sides of the court and his attitude is contageous. |
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