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JIFISH
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 9315
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I listened to the game on the radio and I think it was Mychael that said Phil put Luke in because he wanted someone on the floor who would pass the ball instead having everyone playing their own little contest. At the time we were losing and they had described Phil just before that as being "livid" over the way the team was playing. Phil was sending a message that he wanted more passing, and if you wanted to be on the floor you'd better start passing the ball.
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osj
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2819
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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We're 6-0, and a big part of that is 'cuz the Bench Mob is overwhelming opponents' benches. Kobe, Pau and Bynum are enough to keep the opposing starters occupied. Leave things as they are.
BTW I'm not sure Ariza would be as effective as a starter. Farmar will be our starting PG next season, if not sooner, but Ariza works best as a sparkplug off the bench, shutting down the opponent's best player while kicking the team defense into overdrive. |
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KBandKB
Star Player
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2278
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| 3 starters dude - Lamar Odom |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Luke Walton Enters The Game Before Trevor Ariza..WHY???? |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | kobedagoat wrote: |
I really don't understand what Luke Walton was doing in the game over Trevor Ariza? Can someone explain this to me? |
First find me the same explanation for why Radmanovic is in there before Ariza and I'll get back to you. |
ariza doesnt have a bigger supporter on this board than me. i dont think it would be best for the team if he started though. when the lakers were behind, i KNEW the 2nd unit would bring them back. in the 1st AND the 2nd half. if ariza was part of the 1st unit, i wouldnt have the same confidence in the 2nd unit. its nice to see the energy that i can expect from he and jordan and lamar. i enjoy seeing those 3 on the floor with kobe and bynum, the best defensive lakers squad imo.
if the offense is clicking, the other team is in trouble. if it's not, the 2nd unit's d is going to be the difference maker. |
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Fish with yet another HORRIBLE shot
thank god Gasol was there to bail us out
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(bleep) Kawhi |
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nokio
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2001
Posts: 1951
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: We would have blown this team out tonight had Kobe been more aggressive in the first 7 minutes. |
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I'm glad we won, but with a back to back game against a good New Orleans team, we could have made this much easier. Part of the reason for the big lead was bad defense, Mavs making tough shots, but then I think we still could have kept up with their scoring pace had Kobe not pass the ball every time down the floor and just stand on the wing during the first 6-7 minutes of the game. That team was making some unbelievable shots with the lead and clearly had confidence. That all went down the drain the second we got that lead in the 4th.
Kobe doesn't need to shoot, he just needs to be aggressive and attack EARLY, and often. I think we'd all like to see the assist numbers go up. When he doesn't, players start doing things out of there element. We over pass, Fisher tries to penetrate and good things never happen when he does that. Vlad forces contested 3's. Bynum tries to force offense when he's not comfortable in the post and doesn't have good position. This also leads to a lot of turnovers. Right now, Pau is really the only guy in the SL that can get his own offense outside of Kob.
I just hated his approach to the game tonight although he did finish strong, hopefully we've seen the last of this.
Last edited by nokio on Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:44 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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KBandKB
Star Player
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2278
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kobe becoming a facilitator in the first half is a good plan by phil. we'll see how the rest of the week goes |
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slippy
Star Player
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 5718
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| We just need to run the core offense more. Even if the shots don't drop, it helps to get the defense into a rhythm much earlier in the game. Players were badly out of position for almost all 3 quarters. |
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KobePauDynasty
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Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Uhh no. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | Tanlentueux wrote: | | sometimes i just don't understand our coaching staff! |
PJ was probably probing what Luke could bring to the table - a confidence booster opportunity if you will for Luke -- Luke failed miserably. |
there are a few guys in the league luke may do well against but the teams he does worst against are the ones with footspeed. the lakers need a scouting report so that luke can platoon like a baseball player and only play against slow footed guys that luke can compete with. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ever think that the reason the Lakers now have so many guys that can contribute - the Sasha's, Farmar's, Radmanovic's etc. because in years past Phil would use them whenever he could?
Phil is never going to make you totally useless, if he has something to do about it. He is going to try and get you involved if a situation opens up.
I'm not a Phil defender, but this seems a bit of a reach, considering that Phil wasn't give Luke, Trevor's minutes, he was giving him Vlad's. The Lakers/Phil seem to have their mindset on a combo of athleticism and pure Tri skill at the SF spot. When they want more halfcourt Tri execution, they go to Rad/Walton, when they want athleticism, speed + D go with Ariza.
Trevor comes in at the 9' mark of most halves. IIRC Phil yanked Vlad, because Vlad was stinking up the place on both ends well before that. Trevor did come in at his usual time, and made his impact.
Come on guys, I agree Phil likes Luke more than most of you do, but this is a reach. |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17104
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: We would have blown this team out tonight had Kobe been more aggressive in the first 7 minutes. |
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| nokio wrote: | | I'm glad we won |
Stop while you are ahead.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24158
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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It's times like this that I especially miss that rolling eyes emoticon.
The problem in the first half wasn't our offense or Kobe's perceived aggressiveness or lack thereof. The problem was our defense, rebounding and turnovers.
We have a deep team here. Not everything is about Kobe. |
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AllorNothing
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2001
Posts: 18448
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem was defense. Poor transition defense. WE need some athletes to get back to compensate for two big men playing together. |
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Raptor2k
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4426
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: We would have blown this team out tonight had Kobe been more aggressive in the first 7 minutes. |
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| nokio wrote: | I'm glad we won, but with a back to back game against a good New Orleans team, we could have made this much easier. Part of the reason for the big lead was bad defense, Mavs making tough shots, but then I think we still could have kept up with their scoring pace had Kobe not pass the ball every time down the floor and just stand on the wing during the first 6-7 minutes of the game. That team was making some unbelievable shots with the lead and clearly had confidence. That all went down the drain the second we got that lead in the 4th.
Kobe doesn't need to shoot, he just needs to be aggressive and attack EARLY, and often. I think we'd all like to see the assist numbers go up. When he doesn't, players start doing things out of there element. We over pass, Fisher tries to penetrate and good things never happen when he does that. Vlad forces contested 3's. Bynum tries to force offense when he's not comfortable in the post and doesn't have good position. This also leads to a lot of turnovers. Right now, Pau is really the only guy in the SL that can get his own offense outside of Kob.
I just hated his approach to the game tonight although he did finish strong, hopefully we've seen the last of this. |
It's still early in the season. Once the rest of the team gels, this shouldn't be much of an issue. They seem to do better over the course of every game, but have 1st quarter troubles that will can easily fixed. I think Kobe wants to allow them to work on their chemistry early in the game so that they can get a feel of what they're capable of later in the season. Playoff time, Kobe should indeed be Kobe and attack when needed, whatever quarter.
And every Maverick jumpshot was falling, it was ridiculous, it really was closer than it should have been.
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kobedagoat
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 2900
Location: Norfolk
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| JIFISH wrote: | | I listened to the game on the radio and I think it was Mychael that said Phil put Luke in because he wanted someone on the floor who would pass the ball instead having everyone playing their own little contest. At the time we were losing and they had described Phil just before that as being "livid" over the way the team was playing. Phil was sending a message that he wanted more passing, and if you wanted to be on the floor you'd better start passing the ball. |
Funny thing is luke came in and on his first possession clanked a jump shot...next possession he caught the ball at the midpost and tried to go one on one...PASSING! 
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“Power resides only where men believe it resides...A shadow on the wall, yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” - GRRM |
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nokio
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2001
Posts: 1951
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | It's times like this that I especially miss that rolling eyes emoticon.
The problem in the first half wasn't our offense or Kobe's perceived aggressiveness or lack thereof. The problem was our defense, rebounding and turnovers.
We have a deep team here. Not everything is about Kobe. |
Are you really going to sit here and dismiss that our 1st half deficit had nothing to do with offense? In case you didn't know, turnovers ARE an offensive problem. Plus we missed a lot of layups/tip-ins, and didn't have one 3PT made in the 1st half. Don't be silly, not all those things have relevance to the original point I was trying to make, but don't say our offense wasn't a problem.
All I'm saying is had Kobe been more aggressive from the jump, we would have kept pace with the Mavericks. They were making some ridiculous shots because they had all the momentum, the crowd was behind them, they had confidence. I don't see how it's out of hand at all to say had we kept it close in the 1st half we could have had a nice lead possibly before the half or going into the 4th, we could have used the rest instead of having to play a drag out game on the road a day before we face one of the West's elite.. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24158
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| nokio wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | It's times like this that I especially miss that rolling eyes emoticon.
The problem in the first half wasn't our offense or Kobe's perceived aggressiveness or lack thereof. The problem was our defense, rebounding and turnovers.
We have a deep team here. Not everything is about Kobe. |
Are you really going to sit here and dismiss that our 1st half deficit had nothing to do with offense? In case you didn't know, turnovers ARE an offensive problem. Plus we missed a lot of layups/tip-ins, and didn't have one 3PT made in the 1st half. Don't be silly, not all those things have relevance to the original point I was trying to make, but don't say our offense wasn't a problem.
All I'm saying is had Kobe been more aggressive from the jump, we would have kept pace with the Mavericks. They were making some ridiculous shots because they had all the momentum, the crowd was behind them, they had confidence. I don't see how it's out of hand at all to say had we kept it close in the 1st half we could have had a nice lead possibly before the half or going into the 4th, we could have used the rest instead of having to play a drag out game on the road a day before we face one of the West's elite.. |
We scored 54 points in the first half but gave up 60. The second half we scored 52 but gave up only 39. We won because we clamped down on defense. We're not going to win every game by 20. Unlike in past years, we don't need Kobe to go into Mamba mode in the first half. The team is playing as a team and learning to dig itself out of a hole as a team without Kobe having to come to the rescue. It's better for our growth in the long-run. Kobe himself said as much in his post-game interview on NBA-TV. Phil is of the same mind. I agree with them. |
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mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32059
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| oldschool32 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | oldschool32 wrote: | | seriously, it's time for Rad to come off the bench and Ariza to start. |
why? rad would only be effective with our first unit, and ariza is still going to finish off games, so it's better to try to maximize the talent we do have rather than give ariza a, imo, meaningless spot when he's going to get his minutes anyways. |
I think it would help the first unit stop getting off to ragged starts. He adds energy, off the ball movement, and quickness to a slow starting unit...and I havn't even got to defense yet. I just think he would help the lakers get off to a better start, and they wouldn't have to dig themselves out of such an early hole.
Rad will still be able to launch 3's with the run n gun 2nd unit. |
rad wouldn't fit with the run and gun unit since rad isn't quick and doesn't run. he also wouldn't help the second unit nearly as much as ariza does, since, again, he lacks those traits. he helps the first unit more by providing an outside threat and spreading the floor. the lakers have looked damned good when he's played well; he just had an off night tonight. |
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LakerFan87
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 18984
Location: The High Desert
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Keep everything as it is. Let Vlad start and keep Ariza on the bench. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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Senor Mortgage
Star Player
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 2237
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I honestly thought (and may have posted, not sure) that this game was a total trap game. On road against a struggling, but talented team, Lakers with tons of hype, looking ahead to NO. I honestly expect a much better effort tomorrow in both halves. |
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baller99k
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 360
Location: San Diego/LA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Did anybody else shed tears of joy!!!! when... |
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Lamar exploded in emotion after the and1, then ariza exploding even harder after the dunk!!!!
AHHHH SICK
Sasha cot knocked the %#$& OUT!!
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Box-n-One, put the box on Kobe and the 1 on everybody else!!
Kobe=Jordan (Player-wise, not Legacy-wise) |
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67ShelbyGT
Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 4048
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | nokio wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | It's times like this that I especially miss that rolling eyes emoticon.
The problem in the first half wasn't our offense or Kobe's perceived aggressiveness or lack thereof. The problem was our defense, rebounding and turnovers.
We have a deep team here. Not everything is about Kobe. |
Are you really going to sit here and dismiss that our 1st half deficit had nothing to do with offense? In case you didn't know, turnovers ARE an offensive problem. Plus we missed a lot of layups/tip-ins, and didn't have one 3PT made in the 1st half. Don't be silly, not all those things have relevance to the original point I was trying to make, but don't say our offense wasn't a problem.
All I'm saying is had Kobe been more aggressive from the jump, we would have kept pace with the Mavericks. They were making some ridiculous shots because they had all the momentum, the crowd was behind them, they had confidence. I don't see how it's out of hand at all to say had we kept it close in the 1st half we could have had a nice lead possibly before the half or going into the 4th, we could have used the rest instead of having to play a drag out game on the road a day before we face one of the West's elite.. |
We scored 54 points in the first half but gave up 60. The second half we scored 52 but gave up only 39. We won because we clamped down on defense. We're not going to win every game by 20. Unlike in past years, we don't need Kobe to go into Mamba mode in the first half. The team is playing as a team and learning to dig itself out of a hole as a team without Kobe having to come to the rescue. It's better for our growth in the long-run. Kobe himself said as much in his post-game interview on NBA-TV. Phil is of the same mind. I agree with them. |
It was the defense. Yes, bad shots lead to bad transition D but we really played poorly on defense in rotations and boxing out. I think some ppl will always watch Laker games staring only at Kobe to criticize his every move. I suggest trying to watch the whole game of all 10 players. |
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jordanplusone
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 726
Location: Porthofhellhey
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFan87 wrote: | | Keep everything as it is. Let Vlad start and keep Ariza on the bench. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. |
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LakerFan87
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 18984
Location: The High Desert
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| <------------- Ariza is my new bf |
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