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UntiedShoe
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Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 574
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the great report as always.
Some of you guys go too easy on the Lakers. There's a few reasons why this team is so horribly inconsistent.
One of them is leadership. Jackson, when he's actually coaching, gives this team too much rope. The "let them figure out how to get out of the hole" BS hasn't worked too often.
His coaching style does not get the best out of Gasol, Luke and Lamar who are kind of soft upstairs. I wish we had some more fiery and strong minded players on the team.
Was it too much to ask to tell Kobe to forget the super hero shots in that third quarter and just take it to the hoop strong to get some fouls for example?
Ironic how the second most successful coach in history and one of the most talented players ever will be part of the biggest collapse in NBA finals history. How embarrassing. How pathetic. |
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Thedo
Sixth Man
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: |
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What I don't get is how the other Eastern teams (Atlanta, Cleveland) have brought this Celtics team to 7 games and here we are, barely mustering up enough to play 5. Those teams clearly aren't better than us.
So much potential, so much hype. We were the number 1 seed... in the WEST...WTH is going on here. We breezed past superior opposition (Utah, San Antonio). We played with a sense of urgency and pride. We definitely looked like the elite team to beat.
Why does it seem all of sudden, we look like that rookie team at the beginning of the year? What happened to the fire? What happened to the team that went through internal turmoil, yet finished off the season with so much promise?
So much frustration. I will watch game 5, but my hopes are so low that it won't even be enjoyable. Someone please tell me tonight's game didn't happen, and was just an aberration of what we're really capable of doing. Tell me we'll finish off the series with a happy ending.
The scene of Sasha at the end pretty much summed up my feeling for the season. I can only hope we bounce back and show these damn Celtics enough is enough...it's our turn to rip their hearts out. |
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RYZ
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 1393
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Siguy wrote: | Thanks for the recap. I'm gonna do something odd and post an email I just sent to my out-of-town friends explaining what it was like to be at this game.
WARNING: It's long, so don't blame me if you get bored.
Sigh. Well this may be my last real email for the finals.
That was the worst sports experience of my life. It was unbelievably awful. I went into this game, expecting us to lose, and we couldn't even do that. We had to lose to the biggest finals comeback in history, with the biggest choke-job in history, in the worst Lakers playoff performance in history.
I left that game sick to my stomach, with drunken obnoxious Boston fans running around the Staples Center screaming and dancing and seeing everyone around me swearing and staring at the floor. The team wasn't just embarrassed, we the fans were physically embarrassed by the whole thing. But enough about me, here's how the game went.
Obviously I was shocked we were up by twenty during the first. Then we started the second and we gave back some of the lead but not a ton and we went back at them and finished with that incredible Farmar three-pointer. Not to mention, Ariza had a sensational second period with a block that I was sure was gonna go down in history for its awesomeness once we won the game. When we managed to hold them off and keep an 18 point lead at the half, I thought, "(bleep), all we need to do is score 40 points in the second half." We scored 33, and most of them were garbage points after we'd already lost.
The third started and they got it down to 14 ... and we got it back to 20 with 5:30 left and I was certain we were going to win at that point. What came next was the worst collapse I've ever seen in my life. It was Kobe's fault. It was Phil's fault. It was Odom's fault. And it was Gasol's fault.
It was Kobe's fault because he went brain dead and lifeless and didn't try to kick start the offense when it stalled until it was too late. He essentially fell asleep, unable to transition himself from playmaker back to scorer until the fourth when we were already a trainwreck. He had 18 and 10, but it was the worst performance of his career because he simply could not read the gameflow to understand when he had to take over until too late.
It was Phil's fault because he was a moron at this point in the game. He just couldn't deal with the Celtics putting in that small lineup. (By the way, Doc Rivers is a (bleep) joke, Tom Thibodeau literally called every defensive play; he'd get up and stand IN FRONT OF Doc and call plays) The lineup had Posey at Power Forward and because it was so quick, whenever we missed, they ran back for quick scores, and whenever we penetrated or they doubled, they got back out on the shooters. But the hideousness of it was that Phil didn't understand what to do. They were scoring like crazy on us and all he had to do was put Odom in the block with Posey guarding him (we finally tried this later in the game and Odom blew a lay-up, but he got perfect position). San Antonio did the same thing to us with Udoka and Finley at Power Forward and Odom killed them. Phil failed to do this. In fact, he took Odom OUT of the game to match up and the Celtics went on a massive run. Phil's plan was putting the ball into Gasol's hands in the post against KG. (see Gasol below)
Odom had a great first half, then disappeared the second. He got passive and stood around the three point line with Posey on him. He had to get into the post, but instead he was in the middle of the offense holding the ball for 15 seconds. Phil made things worse by taking Odom out during the Celtics crucial run.
Gasol. Gasol has been awful this series. He was embarrassing against KG. Phil should be punched in the face for going to this match up over and over and over again, but Gasol makes everything worse by holding the ball for ten seconds. He gets the ball in the post with KG on him, then looks around like he expects a double-team. He likes to pass so he just holds the ball for a full 8 seconds of the shot clock, looking for a cutter that never comes or another post player, and then he either passes out to someone with no time left on the clock or tries a hook shot over KG and misses. He was a one man sinkhole for our offense this entire series, and even during our big run in the first half, he never successfully made a post move. Late in the game he tried to pass to Odom with an impossible angle and gave up a turnover that was the nail in the coffin.
Anyway, this was the worst loss of the year by far, and the worst game I've ever been to. We undid a full year of over achieving and hard work. Instead of just losing this game the normal way and losing this series like an over-matched team should, we embarrassed ourselves and we'll now be the laughing stock of the league for the next year. Now next year, we'll suddenly have a monkey on our back, something we have to get over like the Mavericks did after their Warriors collapse. The thing made me so sick that I'm not going to game five. I refuse to go watch us lose the championship or win a meaningless game. A god damned disgrace. That's the only way to describe it. |
I was there tonight with some people from the organization, and let me tell you, from both my standpoint and those whom I was with... you nailed it. Every pitiful nuance.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I actually saw Phil unofficially retire from coaching sometime around the 5 minute mark of the third quarter. Much like down and distance/clock management statistics in football can predict the likely outcome at the end of a game when competently controlled, a 20 point lead overcome in the final 17 min. of an NBA finals contest suggests a catastrophic failure on the part of the coach. Things like the reflexive doubling on mediocre offensive players while leaving 3 point shooters wide open, when the statistical probabilities insist the only way for the losing team to come back the team can is by hitting threes, these the types of things are maddening. And alas, they happened again, only this time, it cost the Lakers their season. |
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Sleepy
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Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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3 in the morning - can't sleep...just replaying that 21-3 run that ended the 3rd. My wife didn't understand why I was so depressed and stunned after the game. I won't be watching game 5....probably not game 6 either. This loss was bad enough.
Boston is killing me - as a Dolphins fan (hate the Patriots), Rockies fan (losing to the Sox in the World Series), and now this. God, I hate Boston. Maybe hate isn't a strong enough word. |
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L33T kObE8
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 3006
Location: Arcadia, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Sleepy wrote: | 3 in the morning - can't sleep...just replaying that 21-3 run that ended the 3rd. My wife didn't understand why I was so depressed and stunned after the game. I won't be watching game 5....probably not game 6 either. This loss was bad enough.
Boston is killing me - as a Dolphins fan (hate the Patriots), Rockies fan (losing to the Sox in the World Series), and now this. God, I hate Boston. Maybe hate isn't a strong enough word. |
Feel you bro, get some rest...
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In regards to a certain fan wanting to cut his wrists:
Orestes: "Guess that's one way to find out if you really bleed purple & gold." |
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X56
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Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 675
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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that's what's tough about the loss, it was the Celtics who did it during the NBA Finals. People aren't gonna talk about anything else unless we win the next 3.
Worse is that this game will be relived like crazy, imagine you're a Cow Town Fan rooting for the Queens and Game 4 of the 2002 WCF is being shown on TV. As a Laker Fan, I always love to watch that game.
Am still feeling the pain but I have no choice but to remain optimistic and look forward to us winning game 5. One game at a time.
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Game 7 2010 NBA Finals - Lakers 83, Boston 79 |
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KingKobe
Star Player
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 3550
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
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I literally had a headache after the game ended.
Props for manning up and writing this (I know it must of been painful).
It's gonna hurt Kobe's legacy. It's gonna hurt Phil's legacy. Odom really did turn invisible. And Pau is gonna hear Ga'soft' even more. This team wrote their names down forever as the biggest losers (at home!!!) in finals history.
This one stung. It stung bad.
Only thing that'll wipe this away is 3 in a row.
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*Warning: The preceding post may have contained sarcasm and/or irony.
"We're all surrounded by idiots." - Kobe Bryant |
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limchrc
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 11477
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| I still can't get over this loss. Thanks for the recap. I hope the Laker players are in better shape than I am... |
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targetman
Star Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 5503
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:25 am Post subject: |
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As awful as this was for me as a fan I wonder what is going through Kobe's head right now. He can't blame his teammates because he was as much, if not more, at fault for this collapse as anyone. But it's not just a blown game, it's a blown series...after leading by a huge margin...to the Celtics. There's not a self-respecting Laker out there who will find this game forgivable.
Imagine a young Kobe Bryant practicing in the gym and fantasizing about starring in a Laker/Celtic playoff game when he grows up--you can bet it didn't look like this. This game would have cemented his legacy
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prisma8slg
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 4664
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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 I'm still numb from last night. this is worse than getting blown out.
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"I define success by championships, by winning..." Kobe Bryant
"I've seen it all. Sasha dunked on somebody," Kobe Bryant said. "I'm ready to retire now." |
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jmark
Star Player
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 2586
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Tough to take. We'll see how tough we are now. We are a young team and it showed last night.
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"I appreciate all those who have supported me. Thank you for believing in me. My family and I are going to need your support and prayers now more than ever." Kobe |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58395
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: |
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3/4 games, the Lakers big 3 have not played at their level.
Games 1-3 Lamar was well below his level and flat out bad at times.
Games 1 and 4, Kobe was disappointing in his shooting, missed a ton of shots he normally makes.
Games 1-4 Gasol has not been the player he is capable of in terms of finishing plays on offense. Hesitant was his middle name.
We won't win championships when our 3 best players have series like the one's they've had.
Also, credit Boston's defense. They simply have no quit, and are the better defensive team.
The ride may be close to over, but this team deserves a lot of props for getting to where they did, considering where they were at camp. |
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X56
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Posts: 675
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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I know this team has gone a long way from camp and probably exceeded our expectations in getting to the final dance, however, it won't change the fact that we gave this game [and possibly the championship] away. For all the imperfections this team has, we were still maybe a few minutes away from being 2-2 with a legitimate chance to go up 3-2 on Sunday. I guess that's why despite the success we've had this year, this particular loss hurts so much.
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Game 7 2010 NBA Finals - Lakers 83, Boston 79 |
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BigE32
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 8518
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, DB. The day after and I'm still stunned and disappointed. I can't believe you saw this coming at halftime. When we answered their early run and pushed the lead back to 20 with a little under six minutes left in the third, I thought we were in a great position to tie the series. We were up 20 with seventeen minutes left in the game. We should have won the game. Period. When I saw Doc go to the small lineup, I saw it as a necessary move b/c Rondo and Perkins were hurting, and desperate b/c he was trying to find a way to win the game and figured he had nothing to lose. I have to point the finger at our HC because he sticks to his style and philosophy which has done him well. I thought that he should have adjusted much quicker than when he did. When he did, it was way too late and the ball was already going downhill. I put the loss first and foremost on his shoulders and then it trickles down afterwards. I thought the Celtics would win in seven, but I thought that if we could have won this game and tied the series, the Celtics might have been wondering over the next few days what happened to their 2-0 lead? Instead, we have a few days to ponder how we blew a twenty point lead with seventeen minutes to play at home. Inexcusable. I give credit to Doc Rivers b/c he coached until the end and was constantly trying to find a winning formula and I also give credit to the Celtics because they kept playing for the entire forty eight minutes. That's something we didn't do and haven't learned how to do it yet. I'm curious to see how our young team responds. I'm not optimistic about Game 5. I don't want to see them celebrating on our home floor. That would make for a very sad Father's Day. In regards to the series, I think it's over unfortunately. We'll all look back at this meltdown and say if we had tied the series, anything can happen. We deserve a lot of blame as well for the Celtics historic comeback. We didn't play for the entire four quarters, and it bit us on our backside. Oh well. We've had a great season, and I really feel like we have a very bright future. Thanks again, DB.
Last edited by BigE32 on Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ChefLinda
Moderator
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24176
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: |
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This reminded me of the 84 finals when we should have won until Worthy's cross-court pass. It was painful, but that's how they learned. Came back in 85 to finally beat them in their own house. If we do lose, I can only hope history repeats itself next year with experience and Bynum back.
The worst part for me is actually living here in Boston with all these bleepin fans. I try my best not to turn on the news or pass by any newspapers. But it ain't easy. |
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bluestorm1990
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 5827
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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One thing I hate about this team for past 2 years they always go away from their offense when they have huge lead , makes me angry as soon as they give up the lead they start attacking the paint again and moving the ball around  . Why not just run it the whole game. |
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8750
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 1591
Location: milan, italy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| i did a very painful thing now... not being masochist, i saw again the game and while i saw the players mistakes -horrible rotations, forced passes, hiding themselves behind their opponents in clutch- i reinforced my first impression: bad coaching is what definitely killed us... it's the 101th game of the season and we don't have any defensive strategy: we didn't put any pressure on their guards, whose ball handling is very weak... we doubleteamed in the paint and let their shooters wide open... our offense became early very stagnant, without any movement far from the ball... the line up with radmanovic as sf is totally absurd, because we are not able to run and at the same time we are not powerful... and our coach didn't change this line up for many minutes when they played small and began to kill us in transition... i'm not telling that phil jackson is a bad coach: he's one of the greatest ever... but once again he looked awfully slow when we needed to find quick solutions and countermoves... i would like to have phil jackson as strategic coach, and then have another coach during the game... |
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viper2
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Posts: 1297
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:18 am Post subject: |
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| 8750 wrote: | | i did a very painful thing now... not being masochist, i saw again the game ... |
Youre a much stronger man mentally than i am. I'll never lay eyes on that debacle ever again. |
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lakermann44
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Lakers should be Ashamed |
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| The Eastern teams are much tougher than the west and it showed in this series. Last Night night should make every laker and fan Ashamed to be associated with this team. NO EXCUSES @ALL. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58395
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Lakers should be Ashamed |
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| lakermann44 wrote: | | The Eastern teams are much tougher than the west and it showed in this series. Last Night night should make every laker and fan Ashamed to be associated with this team. NO EXCUSES @ALL. |
Ashamed?
For what?
Because a very young, newly put together Laker team (Gasol came mid-season, Ariza hasn't really been part of the rotation) is losing a in the NBA Finals, to a 66 win team that has 3 franchise caliber player on it, who had the entire season to prepare together, and gain trust?
Yes, I'm ashamed and I want to trade everybody that got us to this point. How typical. 
When Bynum is heathly and back, a long with Ariza being a rotation player, we'll see this same Laker team kicking Boston's ass all around Staples next season. Book it. Ofcourse, that is unless someone in Laker management is stupid enough to make one of the many proposed trades that are going to be coming from fans desperate to play the blame game on some Laker .... |
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ocho
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Posts: 53938
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Lakers should be Ashamed |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | lakermann44 wrote: | | The Eastern teams are much tougher than the west and it showed in this series. Last Night night should make every laker and fan Ashamed to be associated with this team. NO EXCUSES @ALL. |
Ashamed?
For what?
Because a very young, newly put together Laker team (Gasol came mid-season, Ariza hasn't really been part of the rotation) is losing a in the NBA Finals, to a 66 win team that has 3 franchise caliber player on it, who had the entire season to prepare together, and gain trust?
Yes, I'm ashamed and I want to trade everybody that got us to this point. How typical.
When Bynum is heathly and back, a long with Ariza being a rotation player, we'll see this same Laker team kicking Boston's ass all around Staples next season. Book it. Ofcourse, that is unless someone in Laker management is stupid enough to make one of the many proposed trades that are going to be coming from fans desperate to play the blame game on some Laker .... |
not to mention Boston did their work in the offseason...not midseason. which means they got the standard "veterans looking for a ring". James Posey, PJ Brown, Sam Cassell etc.
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8750
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2003
Posts: 1591
Location: milan, italy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| no, not ashamed at all... from a certain point of view i would like to change only a couple of role players... and it's weird, because every game i find myself blaming lamar's mental weakness, but i would be sad if we trade lamar... even if with bynum back in the game the idea of odom as sf and pau as pf seems to me a nightmare... |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58395
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Lakers should be Ashamed |
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| ocho wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | lakermann44 wrote: | | The Eastern teams are much tougher than the west and it showed in this series. Last Night night should make every laker and fan Ashamed to be associated with this team. NO EXCUSES @ALL. |
Ashamed?
For what?
Because a very young, newly put together Laker team (Gasol came mid-season, Ariza hasn't really been part of the rotation) is losing a in the NBA Finals, to a 66 win team that has 3 franchise caliber player on it, who had the entire season to prepare together, and gain trust?
Yes, I'm ashamed and I want to trade everybody that got us to this point. How typical.
When Bynum is heathly and back, a long with Ariza being a rotation player, we'll see this same Laker team kicking Boston's ass all around Staples next season. Book it. Ofcourse, that is unless someone in Laker management is stupid enough to make one of the many proposed trades that are going to be coming from fans desperate to play the blame game on some Laker .... |
not to mention Boston did their work in the offseason...not midseason. which means they got the standard "veterans looking for a ring". James Posey, PJ Brown, Sam Cassell etc. |
Yeah.
Don't underestimate those moves. The Lakers, they didn't plan for the Finals. The Celtics did.
All of LA's moves, were to win not just this year, but 3-5 years from now.
This summer? Now you'll see the moves that Phil made when he came in '99.
The AC Green's. Ron Harpers. John Salleys (Though he did (bleep) LOL)
Ofcourse, what I expect if we go down to Boston in this series is numerous threads turning on almost every Laker, in particular 1 o 2 easy targets as scapegoats.
Which is a real shame, because I thought LA being in the Finals was a dream, and I'm still so proud of this team. They just weren't physically and mentally ready to win it all. They should be next season, or the year after that, depending on how they grow. |
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SweetP
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 6054
Location: My own little piece of reality
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Lakers should be Ashamed |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | lakermann44 wrote: | | The Eastern teams are much tougher than the west and it showed in this series. Last Night night should make every laker and fan Ashamed to be associated with this team. NO EXCUSES @ALL. |
Ashamed?
For what?
Because a very young, newly put together Laker team (Gasol came mid-season, Ariza hasn't really been part of the rotation) is losing a in the NBA Finals, to a 66 win team that has 3 franchise caliber player on it, who had the entire season to prepare together, and gain trust?
Yes, I'm ashamed and I want to trade everybody that got us to this point. How typical.
When Bynum is heathly and back, a long with Ariza being a rotation player, we'll see this same Laker team kicking Boston's ass all around Staples next season. Book it. Ofcourse, that is unless someone in Laker management is stupid enough to make one of the many proposed trades that are going to be coming from fans desperate to play the blame game on some Laker .... |
not to mention Boston did their work in the offseason...not midseason. which means they got the standard "veterans looking for a ring". James Posey, PJ Brown, Sam Cassell etc. |
Yeah.
Don't underestimate those moves. The Lakers, they didn't plan for the Finals. The Celtics did.
All of LA's moves, were to win not just this year, but 3-5 years from now.
This summer? Now you'll see the moves that Phil made when he came in '99.
The AC Green's. Ron Harpers. John Salleys (Though he did (bleep) LOL)
Ofcourse, what I expect if we go down to Boston in this series is numerous threads turning on almost every Laker, in particular 1 o 2 easy targets as scapegoats.
Which is a real shame, because I thought LA being in the Finals was a dream, and I'm still so proud of this team. They just weren't physically and mentally ready to win it all. They should be next season, or the year after that, depending on how they grow. |
So true. Sometimes a team has to almost make it to take that final step to winning it all.
The game was hard to watch last night but I am proud of the team and hope they can pull it together and win on Sunday and who knows what will happen. Many thought the Lakers wouldn't even make it out of the first round of the playoffs this year, they've come a long way.
There's a qote by someone (Edison maybe) that says something like failure is a chance to go back and do it correctly. If the Lakers lose this series they can react with negativity like so many on this board or they can react by re-tooling for the future. I expect the latter and a great year next year and for years to come.
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“There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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ThePageDude
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2611
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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DB,
Please accept my heartfelt thanks for the marvelous job you have done through the season in summarzing games. On a day when I couldn't even bring myself to turn the TV on, listen to the radio, come online or even think about the game, you had the courage and willpower to write a summary. Your summary is the first post-game writeup of any kind I have been able to read - and I don't think I even care to read anything else. |
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