** Official: LAKERS @ SPURS Tuesday 11/13/07 **
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The Spurs are favored by 8 points. What will happen?
Spurs win by 9 or more.
21%
 21%  [ 15 ]
Spurs win by 8 or less.
9%
 9%  [ 7 ]
Lakers win.
69%
 69%  [ 49 ]
Total Votes : 71

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NBAFan07
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:37 pm    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
Excuses? You want excuses?

Lamar had 4 turnovers But...

HAHAH. Case closed. Don't be a hypocrite. You do the excact same. I made no excuses for Kobe's silly turnovers the last couple of games. But tonight you are wrong and your wrong because you don't understand the game of basketball. Ask your Coach at school or college and ask him, maybe he'll inform you


I don't need any help, obviously it's you who needs the help. When did I make an excuse for Lamar's turnovers? I said but, meaning I would of liked for him to get more touches...especially in the 2nd half when pretty much every time he torched the ball good things happened.


You used "but" to make excuses for Lamar's poor game by saying he didn't get enough touches.

And yes, you do need help. Help with basketball fundamentals


I used but because I think Lamar should of had more touches. Your point?


You were making excuses for Odom's bad play by saying he needed more touches. Were not that dense, the use of But is clearly excuse making.


Whatever you say, isn't worth arguing over. You have your opinion, I have mine. I don't think Lamar played that bad, definitely not as bad as you guys want to make it out to be.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject:

Ok. But next time, stop being hypocritical. If you call out someone for doing something, make sure you don't do the same
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject:

Hey hey hey....Lamar cannot be guarded at the 3. He's a mismatch nightmare for every opponent at the 3. He is unstoppable ON PAPER at the 3 position.

Yeah, we've been hearing this for 3 years now.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject:

Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Key's to the loss:

Turnovers - Lakers 19, Spurs 11
3pters - Lakers 2/16, Spurs 13/27
Bowen/Bonner = 40 points

If we would have 1) Played conservatively with our passes (lowered TOs) and 2)let Parker score at will and just stayed home on the shooters, we could have easily won this game IMO. We effectively stop Duncan yet still lose - terrible.

I blame this loss on LO and Vlad for their perimeter D, Kwame for contributing nothing, and Phil for not making adjustments in the 1st half when we were committing all those TOs.


So Kobe and DFish get a pass for their man torching them right? Their backcourt outplayed ours, by a mile. That's the reason we lost.....


You have to give up certain things in every defensive scheme. The majority of Bowen's points came when Kobe wasn't on him - either Kobe was out of the game (see the 4th quarter where he had 9 of his 23 points not against Kobe) and when Bowen/Ginobli were both in the game and Kobe guarded Manu. The perimeter shots had much more to do with LO/Vlad sagging off of Bonner, Finley, and Bowen.

As far as Fish, you can't stop TP. If we simply would have sagged off TP, let him shoot as many jumpers as he wanted, but didn't help from the perimeter, it would have been fine.

Fisher nor Kobe get passess (it's a loss, nobody gets a pass), but my point was those three factors I pointed out, if negated, would have earned us a victory. As I said "KEYS" to our loss... meaning the most important reasons. Those reasons (TOs and sagging off the perimeter to help on TP) I see as bigger reasons than anything Kobe or Fish did.

Bolded for NBAFan07


Actually, I mispoke... I just added it up and only 10 of Bowen's points were against Kobe. The rest were scored when Kobe was on Ginobli.


Manu had a pretty good 4th too before he went out, I remember the And1 against Kobe and then he went out of the game with 7:52 to go. Bowen had those 3 threes when MANU was off the floor, go check the play by play. Manu went out of the game with 7:52 to go, I got it on TIVO. So I am definitely right. Kobe was in the game when he had those 3 threes, and Kobe was guarding him. Lamar was on Udoka, etc. Those were the matchups, but feel free to prove me wrong. Here's the link, how was Kobe on Manu when Manu wasnt even in the game when Bowen had those 3 threes?


scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=271113024


For the people who joined in with LS, trying to prove me wrong only to be proven wrong in the end.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


He played the 3 early on in 05-06 and he didnt' light the world on fire. Infact he sucked.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Worthy42 wrote:
Tick wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
Tick wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
Tick wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Nobodies free from blame, except for Kobe it seems. Just plain pathetic IMO, he didn't play well as pretty much no1 did but Andrew. Lamar had to many TOs, but didn't get the ball nearly enough especially in the post. Ronny was terrible, as was Luke, Fish, Kwame, Mihm, Mo, etc

Everyone wants to give Kobe a free pass, which is garbage. He didn't play well, especially defensively letting Bowen torch him.


Lamar had 4 TO's. 1 more then Kobe's 3. Which you could argue that one was a bullcrap traveling one they called. Ronny lead the team with 6.

Lakers got killed by TP and his dribble penetration. He softened their defense early and then when the Lakers decided to close in on him, he kicked it out and the Spurs did a fantastic job of hitting their 3's.

The Lakers were either forced to let TP just wander through the lanes uncontested or try to play the percentages and let the 3 pt shooters beat them. They decided to go with the latter and lost that call.

It also didn't help that our own PG had a horrible game and Kobe's shooting was off today. These games happen. You don't just walk into the defending world champs home and expect a cake walk.



Kobe's shooting wasn't off. He shot nearly 50%.


He was 0-6 from 3pt range. I call that off.

A few of those were forced in the 2nd quarter when we were in the penalty. He could've attacked during that stretch.

0 FT's for the game.


If you're gonna play that game then KOBE WAS HOT! He made 9 of 13 shots for 70%! Sorry, you don't get to pick and choose the shots you liked by Kobe and the shots you didn't like by Kobe. For the night, Kobe went 9 for 19, that's just under 50%. That's good shooting.


Are you out of your mind? What are you talking about? It took him 19 shots to get 18 pts. He shot 0-6 from 3 pt range. That's off by his standards. He had opportunities to attack. 0-6 from 3pt range is a bit off wouldn't you say? The team as a whole shot poorly from 3pt range. 2-16. 6 of those 16 misses were Kobes. They should've attacked the basket more. 0 ft's from Kobe is pretty unacceptable. He isn't free from blame for this lost.


He shot just under 50%. Now what are YOU talking about? You want to single out his 3 point shooting? Fine! Then I'll single out his non-three point shooting he shot 9 for 13 for 70%. That's UNHEARD OF for a guard! I'll say this one more time...You don't get pick and choose which shots you like by Kobe, and which shots you don't. For the night, he shot 9 for 19, that's slightly below 50% and above his career average. Don't tell me he shot poorly. If you think 50% shooting is poor, then you have NO IDEA what you're talking about sir.


19 shots to get 18 pts. End of discussion.


Understand what you are talking about. FT's and 3-pointers increase efficiency, but don't go out of context. You are penalizing Kobe for not getting to the line or hitting a 3, but 47% on 2-point field goal attempts is not bad by any means. And there were 2-3 times Kobe could have went to the line, btw.
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thegreatest
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Key's to the loss:

Turnovers - Lakers 19, Spurs 11
3pters - Lakers 2/16, Spurs 13/27
Bowen/Bonner = 40 points

If we would have 1) Played conservatively with our passes (lowered TOs) and 2)let Parker score at will and just stayed home on the shooters, we could have easily won this game IMO. We effectively stop Duncan yet still lose - terrible.

I blame this loss on LO and Vlad for their perimeter D, Kwame for contributing nothing, and Phil for not making adjustments in the 1st half when we were committing all those TOs.


So Kobe and DFish get a pass for their man torching them right? Their backcourt outplayed ours, by a mile. That's the reason we lost.....


You have to give up certain things in every defensive scheme. The majority of Bowen's points came when Kobe wasn't on him - either Kobe was out of the game (see the 4th quarter where he had 9 of his 23 points not against Kobe) and when Bowen/Ginobli were both in the game and Kobe guarded Manu. The perimeter shots had much more to do with LO/Vlad sagging off of Bonner, Finley, and Bowen.

As far as Fish, you can't stop TP. If we simply would have sagged off TP, let him shoot as many jumpers as he wanted, but didn't help from the perimeter, it would have been fine.

Fisher nor Kobe get passess (it's a loss, nobody gets a pass), but my point was those three factors I pointed out, if negated, would have earned us a victory. As I said "KEYS" to our loss... meaning the most important reasons. Those reasons (TOs and sagging off the perimeter to help on TP) I see as bigger reasons than anything Kobe or Fish did.

Bolded for NBAFan07


Actually, I mispoke... I just added it up and only 10 of Bowen's points were against Kobe. The rest were scored when Kobe was on Ginobli.


Manu had a pretty good 4th too before he went out, I remember the And1 against Kobe and then he went out of the game with 7:52 to go. Bowen had those 3 threes when MANU was off the floor, go check the play by play. Manu went out of the game with 7:52 to go, I got it on TIVO. So I am definitely right. Kobe was in the game when he had those 3 threes, and Kobe was guarding him. Lamar was on Udoka, etc. Those were the matchups, but feel free to prove me wrong. Here's the link, how was Kobe on Manu when Manu wasnt even in the game when Bowen had those 3 threes?


scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=271113024

Kobe was alos guarding parker in the 4th...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject:

Tick wrote:
Hey hey hey....Lamar cannot be guarded at the 3. He's a mismatch nightmare for every opponent at the 3. He is unstoppable ON PAPER at the 3 position.

Yeah, we've been hearing this for 3 years now.


It's called spacing and execution.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


He played the 3 early on in 05-06 and he didnt' light the world on fire. Infact he sucked.


Prove it or move around, you know I am not going to let you just throw random garbage out without calling you out on it.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject:

thegreatest wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Key's to the loss:

Turnovers - Lakers 19, Spurs 11
3pters - Lakers 2/16, Spurs 13/27
Bowen/Bonner = 40 points

If we would have 1) Played conservatively with our passes (lowered TOs) and 2)let Parker score at will and just stayed home on the shooters, we could have easily won this game IMO. We effectively stop Duncan yet still lose - terrible.

I blame this loss on LO and Vlad for their perimeter D, Kwame for contributing nothing, and Phil for not making adjustments in the 1st half when we were committing all those TOs.


So Kobe and DFish get a pass for their man torching them right? Their backcourt outplayed ours, by a mile. That's the reason we lost.....


You have to give up certain things in every defensive scheme. The majority of Bowen's points came when Kobe wasn't on him - either Kobe was out of the game (see the 4th quarter where he had 9 of his 23 points not against Kobe) and when Bowen/Ginobli were both in the game and Kobe guarded Manu. The perimeter shots had much more to do with LO/Vlad sagging off of Bonner, Finley, and Bowen.

As far as Fish, you can't stop TP. If we simply would have sagged off TP, let him shoot as many jumpers as he wanted, but didn't help from the perimeter, it would have been fine.

Fisher nor Kobe get passess (it's a loss, nobody gets a pass), but my point was those three factors I pointed out, if negated, would have earned us a victory. As I said "KEYS" to our loss... meaning the most important reasons. Those reasons (TOs and sagging off the perimeter to help on TP) I see as bigger reasons than anything Kobe or Fish did.

Bolded for NBAFan07


Actually, I mispoke... I just added it up and only 10 of Bowen's points were against Kobe. The rest were scored when Kobe was on Ginobli.


Manu had a pretty good 4th too before he went out, I remember the And1 against Kobe and then he went out of the game with 7:52 to go. Bowen had those 3 threes when MANU was off the floor, go check the play by play. Manu went out of the game with 7:52 to go, I got it on TIVO. So I am definitely right. Kobe was in the game when he had those 3 threes, and Kobe was guarding him. Lamar was on Udoka, etc. Those were the matchups, but feel free to prove me wrong. Here's the link, how was Kobe on Manu when Manu wasnt even in the game when Bowen had those 3 threes?


scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=271113024

Kobe was alos guarding parker in the 4th...


Sure, LOL. grasping for straws now I see. He wasn't guarding Parker, the PG(FARMAR) was. Give it a rest, Kobe was guarding Bowen the 4th quarter when he had the 3 threes. You guys are something else....
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


This is not the only season that he's played the 3. It's getting to the point that the Lakers are running out of places TO put Lamar to maximize his so-called "abilities and talents."
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


He played the 3 early on in 05-06 and he didnt' light the world on fire. Infact he sucked.


Prove it or move around, you know I am not going to let you just throw random garbage out without calling you out on it.


You really need proof? Did you not watch the Lakers back then?

Here's your proof - in the Summer of 2005, the Lakers traded Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for a guy named Kwame Brown. The idea was to play Mihm at the 5, Kwame at the 4 and Odom at the 3. Pippen was even brought in that summer to work with Odom during training camp to try and teach him how to play the 3 in the triangle, which was being fully instated with the return of Phil Jackson.

The experiment lasted roughly until Mihm went down with an injury which moved Kwame to the 5 and forced Odom to play the 4.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject:

CorkyTomjanovich wrote:
Tick wrote:
Hey hey hey....Lamar cannot be guarded at the 3. He's a mismatch nightmare for every opponent at the 3. He is unstoppable ON PAPER at the 3 position.

Yeah, we've been hearing this for 3 years now.


It's called spacing and execution.


Two concepts that Lamar apparently struggles with I guess?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Key's to the loss:

Turnovers - Lakers 19, Spurs 11
3pters - Lakers 2/16, Spurs 13/27
Bowen/Bonner = 40 points

If we would have 1) Played conservatively with our passes (lowered TOs) and 2)let Parker score at will and just stayed home on the shooters, we could have easily won this game IMO. We effectively stop Duncan yet still lose - terrible.

I blame this loss on LO and Vlad for their perimeter D, Kwame for contributing nothing, and Phil for not making adjustments in the 1st half when we were committing all those TOs.


So Kobe and DFish get a pass for their man torching them right? Their backcourt outplayed ours, by a mile. That's the reason we lost.....


You have to give up certain things in every defensive scheme. The majority of Bowen's points came when Kobe wasn't on him - either Kobe was out of the game (see the 4th quarter where he had 9 of his 23 points not against Kobe) and when Bowen/Ginobli were both in the game and Kobe guarded Manu. The perimeter shots had much more to do with LO/Vlad sagging off of Bonner, Finley, and Bowen.

As far as Fish, you can't stop TP. If we simply would have sagged off TP, let him shoot as many jumpers as he wanted, but didn't help from the perimeter, it would have been fine.

Fisher nor Kobe get passess (it's a loss, nobody gets a pass), but my point was those three factors I pointed out, if negated, would have earned us a victory. As I said "KEYS" to our loss... meaning the most important reasons. Those reasons (TOs and sagging off the perimeter to help on TP) I see as bigger reasons than anything Kobe or Fish did.

Bolded for NBAFan07


Actually, I mispoke... I just added it up and only 10 of Bowen's points were against Kobe. The rest were scored when Kobe was on Ginobli.


Manu had a pretty good 4th too before he went out, I remember the And1 against Kobe and then he went out of the game with 7:52 to go. Bowen had those 3 threes when MANU was off the floor, go check the play by play. Manu went out of the game with 7:52 to go, I got it on TIVO. So I am definitely right. Kobe was in the game when he had those 3 threes, and Kobe was guarding him. Lamar was on Udoka, etc. Those were the matchups, but feel free to prove me wrong. Here's the link, how was Kobe on Manu when Manu wasnt even in the game when Bowen had those 3 threes?


scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=271113024

Kobe was alos guarding parker in the 4th...


Sure, LOL. grasping for straws now I see. He wasn't guarding Parker, the PG(FARMAR) was. Give it a rest, Kobe was guarding Bowen the 4th quarter when he had the 3 threes. You guys are something else....

Did you watch the game??
lol
I guess grasping for straws is saying what happened then lol. He was guarding parker in the 4th. Believe what you want; but i saw the game.
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Last edited by thegreatest on Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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melo061
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


He played the 3 early on in 05-06 and he didnt' light the world on fire. Infact he sucked.


Prove it or move around, you know I am not going to let you just throw random garbage out without calling you out on it.


Man, come on. I wouldn't lie like that to Lamar's biggest now would i

Exhibit A- First game of 2005-20006

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251102007

Kwame/Mihm Front court, Odom at the 3

3rd game of the season

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251106013


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251108001

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251109016

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251111020

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251114029


Yeh. And then we had Brian Cook at the 4 after untill Lamar was permanetly the 4 with Luke at the 3 later in the season..


You don't remember? I thought you were a keen odom fan?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Key's to the loss:

Turnovers - Lakers 19, Spurs 11
3pters - Lakers 2/16, Spurs 13/27
Bowen/Bonner = 40 points

If we would have 1) Played conservatively with our passes (lowered TOs) and 2)let Parker score at will and just stayed home on the shooters, we could have easily won this game IMO. We effectively stop Duncan yet still lose - terrible.

I blame this loss on LO and Vlad for their perimeter D, Kwame for contributing nothing, and Phil for not making adjustments in the 1st half when we were committing all those TOs.


So Kobe and DFish get a pass for their man torching them right? Their backcourt outplayed ours, by a mile. That's the reason we lost.....


You have to give up certain things in every defensive scheme. The majority of Bowen's points came when Kobe wasn't on him - either Kobe was out of the game (see the 4th quarter where he had 9 of his 23 points not against Kobe) and when Bowen/Ginobli were both in the game and Kobe guarded Manu. The perimeter shots had much more to do with LO/Vlad sagging off of Bonner, Finley, and Bowen.

As far as Fish, you can't stop TP. If we simply would have sagged off TP, let him shoot as many jumpers as he wanted, but didn't help from the perimeter, it would have been fine.

Fisher nor Kobe get passess (it's a loss, nobody gets a pass), but my point was those three factors I pointed out, if negated, would have earned us a victory. As I said "KEYS" to our loss... meaning the most important reasons. Those reasons (TOs and sagging off the perimeter to help on TP) I see as bigger reasons than anything Kobe or Fish did.

Bolded for NBAFan07


Actually, I mispoke... I just added it up and only 10 of Bowen's points were against Kobe. The rest were scored when Kobe was on Ginobli.


Manu had a pretty good 4th too before he went out, I remember the And1 against Kobe and then he went out of the game with 7:52 to go. Bowen had those 3 threes when MANU was off the floor, go check the play by play. Manu went out of the game with 7:52 to go, I got it on TIVO. So I am definitely right. Kobe was in the game when he had those 3 threes, and Kobe was guarding him. Lamar was on Udoka, etc. Those were the matchups, but feel free to prove me wrong. Here's the link, how was Kobe on Manu when Manu wasnt even in the game when Bowen had those 3 threes?


scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=271113024

Kobe was alos guarding parker in the 4th...


Sure, LOL. grasping for straws now I see. He wasn't guarding Parker, the PG(FARMAR) was. Give it a rest, Kobe was guarding Bowen the 4th quarter when he had the 3 threes. You guys are something else....


You do know that Farmar went to the bench in the 4th after he tweaked his ankle and the Lakers went big with a lineup of Bynum, Odom, Walton, Vlad and Kobe, right?

Wow, your short term memory must be godawful!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


He played the 3 early on in 05-06 and he didnt' light the world on fire. Infact he sucked.


Prove it or move around, you know I am not going to let you just throw random garbage out without calling you out on it.


You really need proof? Did you not watch the Lakers back then?

Here's your proof - in the Summer of 2005, the Lakers traded Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for a guy named Kwame Brown. The idea was to play Mihm at the 5, Kwame at the 4 and Odom at the 3. Pippen was even brought in that summer to work with Odom during training camp to try and teach him how to play the 3 in the triangle, which was being fully instated with the return of Phil Jackson.

The experiment lasted roughly until Mihm went down with an injury which moved Kwame to the 5 and forced Odom to play the 4.


So Mihm going down and the Lakers having no1 capable of playing the 4 means, Lamar failed at the 3 that year? The bolded part says it all, but carry on with your facts Hector.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject:

CorkyTomjanovich wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
Tick wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
Tick wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
Tick wrote:
Worthy42 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Nobodies free from blame, except for Kobe it seems. Just plain pathetic IMO, he didn't play well as pretty much no1 did but Andrew. Lamar had to many TOs, but didn't get the ball nearly enough especially in the post. Ronny was terrible, as was Luke, Fish, Kwame, Mihm, Mo, etc

Everyone wants to give Kobe a free pass, which is garbage. He didn't play well, especially defensively letting Bowen torch him.


Lamar had 4 TO's. 1 more then Kobe's 3. Which you could argue that one was a bullcrap traveling one they called. Ronny lead the team with 6.

Lakers got killed by TP and his dribble penetration. He softened their defense early and then when the Lakers decided to close in on him, he kicked it out and the Spurs did a fantastic job of hitting their 3's.

The Lakers were either forced to let TP just wander through the lanes uncontested or try to play the percentages and let the 3 pt shooters beat them. They decided to go with the latter and lost that call.

It also didn't help that our own PG had a horrible game and Kobe's shooting was off today. These games happen. You don't just walk into the defending world champs home and expect a cake walk.



Kobe's shooting wasn't off. He shot nearly 50%.


He was 0-6 from 3pt range. I call that off.

A few of those were forced in the 2nd quarter when we were in the penalty. He could've attacked during that stretch.

0 FT's for the game.


If you're gonna play that game then KOBE WAS HOT! He made 9 of 13 shots for 70%! Sorry, you don't get to pick and choose the shots you liked by Kobe and the shots you didn't like by Kobe. For the night, Kobe went 9 for 19, that's just under 50%. That's good shooting.


Are you out of your mind? What are you talking about? It took him 19 shots to get 18 pts. He shot 0-6 from 3 pt range. That's off by his standards. He had opportunities to attack. 0-6 from 3pt range is a bit off wouldn't you say? The team as a whole shot poorly from 3pt range. 2-16. 6 of those 16 misses were Kobes. They should've attacked the basket more. 0 ft's from Kobe is pretty unacceptable. He isn't free from blame for this lost.


He shot just under 50%. Now what are YOU talking about? You want to single out his 3 point shooting? Fine! Then I'll single out his non-three point shooting he shot 9 for 13 for 70%. That's UNHEARD OF for a guard! I'll say this one more time...You don't get pick and choose which shots you like by Kobe, and which shots you don't. For the night, he shot 9 for 19, that's slightly below 50% and above his career average. Don't tell me he shot poorly. If you think 50% shooting is poor, then you have NO IDEA what you're talking about sir.


19 shots to get 18 pts. End of discussion.


Understand what you are talking about. FT's and 3-pointers increase efficiency, but don't go out of context. You are penalizing Kobe for not getting to the line or hitting a 3, but 47% on 2-point field goal attempts is not bad by any means. And there were 2-3 times Kobe could have went to the line, btw.


47% shooting ends this discussion.
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melo061
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject:

Oh and The numbers

Lamar at the 3 in November

15 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 41% shooting. He sucked and had so many games where he scored in double figures
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Key's to the loss:

Turnovers - Lakers 19, Spurs 11
3pters - Lakers 2/16, Spurs 13/27
Bowen/Bonner = 40 points

If we would have 1) Played conservatively with our passes (lowered TOs) and 2)let Parker score at will and just stayed home on the shooters, we could have easily won this game IMO. We effectively stop Duncan yet still lose - terrible.

I blame this loss on LO and Vlad for their perimeter D, Kwame for contributing nothing, and Phil for not making adjustments in the 1st half when we were committing all those TOs.


So Kobe and DFish get a pass for their man torching them right? Their backcourt outplayed ours, by a mile. That's the reason we lost.....


You have to give up certain things in every defensive scheme. The majority of Bowen's points came when Kobe wasn't on him - either Kobe was out of the game (see the 4th quarter where he had 9 of his 23 points not against Kobe) and when Bowen/Ginobli were both in the game and Kobe guarded Manu. The perimeter shots had much more to do with LO/Vlad sagging off of Bonner, Finley, and Bowen.

As far as Fish, you can't stop TP. If we simply would have sagged off TP, let him shoot as many jumpers as he wanted, but didn't help from the perimeter, it would have been fine.

Fisher nor Kobe get passess (it's a loss, nobody gets a pass), but my point was those three factors I pointed out, if negated, would have earned us a victory. As I said "KEYS" to our loss... meaning the most important reasons. Those reasons (TOs and sagging off the perimeter to help on TP) I see as bigger reasons than anything Kobe or Fish did.

Bolded for NBAFan07


Actually, I mispoke... I just added it up and only 10 of Bowen's points were against Kobe. The rest were scored when Kobe was on Ginobli.


Manu had a pretty good 4th too before he went out, I remember the And1 against Kobe and then he went out of the game with 7:52 to go. Bowen had those 3 threes when MANU was off the floor, go check the play by play. Manu went out of the game with 7:52 to go, I got it on TIVO. So I am definitely right. Kobe was in the game when he had those 3 threes, and Kobe was guarding him. Lamar was on Udoka, etc. Those were the matchups, but feel free to prove me wrong. Here's the link, how was Kobe on Manu when Manu wasnt even in the game when Bowen had those 3 threes?


scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=271113024

Kobe was alos guarding parker in the 4th...


Sure, LOL. grasping for straws now I see. He wasn't guarding Parker, the PG(FARMAR) was. Give it a rest, Kobe was guarding Bowen the 4th quarter when he had the 3 threes. You guys are something else....


You do know that Farmar went to the bench in the 4th after he tweaked his ankle and the Lakers went big with a lineup of Bynum, Odom, Walton, Vlad and Kobe, right?

Wow, your short term memory must be godawful!


Sure, but that still don't mean anything. Fact is, LS said Kobe was guarding Manu. Manu wasn't in the game. Go watch the game again, and tell me who Kobe was guarding from the 6:52 mark in the 4th, until the 3:15 and you will see it's the person who was guarding him. Why is this even an discussion? The excuses you guys make for Kobe around here is amazing.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


He played the 3 early on in 05-06 and he didnt' light the world on fire. Infact he sucked.


Prove it or move around, you know I am not going to let you just throw random garbage out without calling you out on it.


Man, come on. I wouldn't lie like that to Lamar's biggest now would i

Exhibit A- First game of 2005-20006

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251102007

Kwame/Mihm Front court, Odom at the 3

3rd game of the season

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251106013


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251108001

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251109016

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251111020

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251114029


Yeh. And then we had Brian Cook at the 4 after untill Lamar was permanetly the 4 with Luke at the 3 later in the season..


You don't remember? I thought you were a keen odom fan?


Melo, that was a fine example of pure and unadulterated OWNAGE!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
Oh and The numbers

Lamar at the 3 in November

15 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 41% shooting. He sucked and had so many games where he scored in double figures


15/10/5 sucks so bad that about how many people suck so bad in the NBA during that same time frame? OH, I bet you don't neem more than 1 hand to count them. But you're welcome to try again....
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject:

NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
Oh and The numbers

Lamar at the 3 in November

15 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists, 41% shooting. He sucked and had so many games where he scored in double figures


15/10/5 sucks so bad that about how many people suck so bad in the NBA during that same time frame? OH, I bet you don't neem more than 1 hand to count them. But you're welcome to try again....


41% shooting for a 6-10 guy. Sorry But that flat out sucks. His PER was atrocious, he had numerous double digit games. Yes, he did suck and his impact was nothing.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject:

melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
melo061 wrote:
NBAFan07 wrote:
Yet this is the only season he has played the 3, and when he is fortunate/lucky enough to get the ball downlow, GREAT things happen. Disagree if you will but try watching the game.


He played the 3 early on in 05-06 and he didnt' light the world on fire. Infact he sucked.


Prove it or move around, you know I am not going to let you just throw random garbage out without calling you out on it.


Man, come on. I wouldn't lie like that to Lamar's biggest now would i

Exhibit A- First game of 2005-20006

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251102007

Kwame/Mihm Front court, Odom at the 3

3rd game of the season

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251106013


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251108001

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251109016

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251111020

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=251114029


Yeh. And then we had Brian Cook at the 4 after untill Lamar was permanetly the 4 with Luke at the 3 later in the season..


You don't remember? I thought you were a keen odom fan?


Lamar played so bad that he played more minutes than anyone that 1st game that you used as a reference? LOL, I guess the coach felt differently. How many people in the NBA sucked so bad that they managed 15/10/5? KG and.........?
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