Marion for Odom Talk -- PLEASE KEEP ALL MARION DISCUSSION HERE
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Fan0Bynum17
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject:

This report is weak, they're just re-hashing old rumors. Lamar for Marion is sideways at best. There is no way they're getting Lamar when everybody knows they're trying to move Marion. In their dreams, Kerr is a loser.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^Funny, the only way I could stomach that deal is if we threw in Cook... I want that guy off the team very badly, not Smush badly, but badly all the same.


Hating a guy is not a good reason to give a team another weapon, especially when it's that obvious Cook would flourish over there. If you want him off the team that bad, propose a trade elsewhere for a pick - he absolutely could garner that - but don't give his lethal shooting to the Suns. That's just foolish and based on pure emotion versus thinking it through.

We have to face Phoenix regularly. Take care who you're so eager to cough up to them. If it's a guy who can't shoot, go for it, but a guy who absolutely will knock em down? Ugh.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject:

Really I think the only edge Marion has is on defense (both man D and team D). I think LO is a better scorer, rebounder, and facilitator. Many people say Marion was great before Nash arrived, but want to know his other point guards - Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury (who averaged 8+ assists that year). Going from Kidd/Marbury/Nash to Fisher certainly won't help Marion's offense much and I am pretty sure he's not too great at creating his own O. LO can at least create his own offense, even if he doesn't try as often as he should.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:27 am    Post subject:

Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
This report is weak, they're just re-hashing old rumors. Lamar for Marion is sideways at best. There is no way they're getting Lamar when everybody knows they're trying to move Marion. In their dreams, Kerr is a loser.



kerr is brilliant.

he needed to upgrade the team AND lower payroll.
is there a bigger challange for a g.m. ?

so what does kerr do ?

sends out k.thomas and j.jones (about 11 mil in salary)
gets b. skinner and g. hill - both for the vet min.
drafts tucker and strawberry who i think will fit in very well
sells 2 1st rd picks to help the financial situation
and he's still armed with an 8 mil trade exception.

i'd take that loser over mitch any day of the week.
i can only imagine the horror in mitch's eyes if he's ever asked to do what kerr has been asked to do this offseason.


Last edited by davidse on Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject:

I think the deal killer is actually Cook. No way in hell do we want to see Cook against us in that offense.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject:

I don't like the idea.

I agree with some other posters in that he can't make a shot for himself. He can't do what he does in Phoenix in LA.

Plus, I really don't like his game, other than he can finish a break with the best of them. His outside shot isn't great and it's the ugliest thing too and he doesn't rebound that well. His defense isn't great either.

I just don't think Odom vs. Marion if you weighed every little thing they both have adds up properly.

I think Odom wins out overall.

Bye.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Really I think the only edge Marion has is on defense (both man D and team D). I think LO is a better scorer, rebounder, and facilitator. Many people say Marion was great before Nash arrived, but want to know his other point guards - Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury (who averaged 8+ assists that year). Going from Kidd/Marbury/Nash to Fisher certainly won't help Marion's offense much and I am pretty sure he's not too great at creating his own O. LO can at least create his own offense, even if he doesn't try as often as he should.



even though i'm ultimatly against this move unless it's followed up by another one that gets us an offensive minded player, you can't ingore the durability factor in which marion has a huge edge over odom.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
TACH wrote:
I like LO too... Marion is good... but is it the system they play or the player? I will say this, his D is far better than LOs... which would make the move an upgrade in my eyes.


Marion was an ALL Star BEFORE Nash came.

He does not have LO's broad skillset, but the things that he does are done well.

Excellent rebounder
Excellent defender
Excellent finisher

Will get a LOT of hustle points (garbage baskets count on the scoreboard).

The big key for me is it would allow us to bring in a thug at PF, which is not difficult to find. If Turiaf proves incapable of playing big minutes, you can grab a Skinner/Sweetney-type. Shoot, maybe Kwame could finally figure it out the Tri PF after two full seasons.

But a tough/physical PF would do wonders for Bynum at C.

Fish/Crit/Farmar
Kobe/Evans/Sasha
Marion/Walton
Kwame/Turiaf/Skinner
Bynum/Mihm



I like it.

Lakers have a second option and can rely on fish,bynum and the bench to

pick up the slack. I wouldnt be suprised if this trade goes down because

Phil is in love with Marions Game. the lakers also become much more

defensive oriented. Btw skinner just signed with phx, but turiaf behind

kwame is plenty.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:35 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Really I think the only edge Marion has is on defense (both man D and team D). I think LO is a better scorer, rebounder, and facilitator. Many people say Marion was great before Nash arrived, but want to know his other point guards - Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury (who averaged 8+ assists that year). Going from Kidd/Marbury/Nash to Fisher certainly won't help Marion's offense much and I am pretty sure he's not too great at creating his own O. LO can at least create his own offense, even if he doesn't try as often as he should.


I have to disagree.... LO has no right hand... you force him right, he can be neutalized.

Also, it's not like LO is lighting it up in the tri. He's constantly inconsistant at best. And he was the 2nd scoring option.

On paper LO is a beast... in reality he's still stuck on 'potential' after 8 years with 'flashes of what could be'.

With a Marion LO trade, we lose rebounding, but gain defense (think the gain in D is greater than the lose in rebounding). Can Marion facilitate? Not sure, he's never been ask to do so,.. so anybody's opinion in this area is pure speculation.

On the other hand, LO is a very very nice fit for PHX. He would be asked to be the 2nd option, he won't be asked to play D, he can run the floor, and i'm sure he will benefit from Nash. I really think LO and Cook on PHX (minus Marion) puts PHX over the top... And if that's the case, not so sure I do the deal.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Really I think the only edge Marion has is on defense (both man D and team D). I think LO is a better scorer, rebounder, and facilitator. Many people say Marion was great before Nash arrived, but want to know his other point guards - Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury (who averaged 8+ assists that year). Going from Kidd/Marbury/Nash to Fisher certainly won't help Marion's offense much and I am pretty sure he's not too great at creating his own O. LO can at least create his own offense, even if he doesn't try as often as he should.


I have to disagree.... LO has no right hand... you force him right, he can be neutalized.

Also, it's not like LO is lighting it up in the tri. He's constantly inconsistant at best. And he was the 2nd scoring option.

On paper LO is a beast... in reality he's still stuck on 'potential' after 8 years with 'flashes of what could be'.

With a Marion LO trade, we lose rebounding, but gain defense (think the gain in D is greater than the lose in rebounding). Can Marion facilitate? Not sure, he's never been ask to do so,.. so anybody's opinion in this area is pure speculation.

On the other hand, LO is a very very nice fit for PHX. He would be asked to be the 2nd option, he won't be asked to play D, he can run the floor, and i'm sure he will benefit from Nash. I really think LO and Cook on PHX (minus Marion) puts PHX over the top... And if that's the case, not so sure I do the deal.


Correction LO will become the third option behind Nash and Stoudimire, and you are right about one thing. People think that Marion is impressive with Nash. You give LO to Phoenix, that would enhance that offense with an added dimension that is tailor made for them! The way the Suns move (like I wish the Lakers would) Nash to LO would be scary! Every time Nash threads the needle to LO, who ever else is in better position will be set up even better with that second quarterback. The Suns already lethal run, and gun offense would suddenly become run and "machine gun." LO would make them invincible on breaks hitting the floor with rebounds and running the rock like he likes to do...

Kerr is smart...

If the Lakers bite on this the Suns win that exchange... No doubt about it... For them that just might do it...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
TACH wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Really I think the only edge Marion has is on defense (both man D and team D). I think LO is a better scorer, rebounder, and facilitator. Many people say Marion was great before Nash arrived, but want to know his other point guards - Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury (who averaged 8+ assists that year). Going from Kidd/Marbury/Nash to Fisher certainly won't help Marion's offense much and I am pretty sure he's not too great at creating his own O. LO can at least create his own offense, even if he doesn't try as often as he should.


I have to disagree.... LO has no right hand... you force him right, he can be neutalized.

Also, it's not like LO is lighting it up in the tri. He's constantly inconsistant at best. And he was the 2nd scoring option.

On paper LO is a beast... in reality he's still stuck on 'potential' after 8 years with 'flashes of what could be'.

With a Marion LO trade, we lose rebounding, but gain defense (think the gain in D is greater than the lose in rebounding). Can Marion facilitate? Not sure, he's never been ask to do so,.. so anybody's opinion in this area is pure speculation.

On the other hand, LO is a very very nice fit for PHX. He would be asked to be the 2nd option, he won't be asked to play D, he can run the floor, and i'm sure he will benefit from Nash. I really think LO and Cook on PHX (minus Marion) puts PHX over the top... And if that's the case, not so sure I do the deal.


Correction LO will become the third option behind Nash and Stoudimire, and you are right about one thing. People think that Marion is impressive with Nash. You give LO to Phoenix, that would enhance that offense with an added dimension that is tailor made for them! The way the Suns move (like I wish the Lakers would) Nash to LO would be scary! Every time Nash threads the needle to LO, who ever else is in better position will be set up even better with that second quarterback. The Suns already lethal run, and gun offense would suddenly become run and "machine gun." LO would make them invincible on breaks hitting the floor with rebounds and running the rock like he likes to do...

Kerr is smart...

If the Lakers bite on this the Suns win that exchange... No doubt about it... For them that just might do it...
Opps.. My bad,.. I meant 'wouldn't be asked to be the 2nd scoring option'...

And as long as Nash is setting LO up on the left side of the court...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~617~2165~510~615&teams=21~21~11~11~13&te=&cash=

and maybe a draft pick for Indy? Would they bite?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject:

Ever_Baller wrote:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~617~2165~510~615&teams=21~21~11~11~13&te=&cash=

and maybe a draft pick for Indy? Would they bite?



Not a chance. They already have their SF of the future on their team - wouldn't need/want Marion ahead of him.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject:

so indy would take the higher paid marion and the long term overpaid banks over odom, kwame and farmar ?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject:

Truth is, there is no reason we should be happy about a LO and Cook for Marion deal... Phoenix would be taking on slightly more in salary (except also that Cook's $3.5 mil would be around for an extra year) and receive a player in LO who basically plays the same position. So then why does Phoenix do this deal as there are no financial benefits and you are only trading players who play the exact same position (so not really filling some absent need).... because they believe LO is better than Marion. If they believe that, then why shouldn't we?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject:

kobesNBA wrote:
Hmmm. . .

To be honest, I really am surprised at how many of you think this is a good deal for us. Maybe I just need my head examined, but I would not do this trade in a million years. Sure, dumping off Cook sounds pretty tasty. But I wouldn't even trade LO for Marion strait up.

Lets look at this for a moment. Marion is more athletic than Lamar, and less injury prone. He is a good cleanup type of player, and a better scorer.

Now on the other hand, do you honestly think if you traded for any Phoenix Sun, that they would put up the same kind of numbers here? Have you forgotten why they don't run any plays for him? I would cringe every time he shoots the ball. More than I do with MO. And lets not forget his higher than it sould be pricetag.

And what about Phoenix? Can you imagine how well LO and Cook would plug in to their system? Both have way better range. Sure, Cook can't play defense, but none of those guys (outside of Bell) can. And having another passer playing next to Nash would be nasty. If we did that trade, we might as well make a public statement saying "We are really pushing for Phoenix to win it all this season".

Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to crawl under my desk and assume the fetal position.


I'm with you on this one, LO's versatility and better fit in the Tri (Marion is even worse from the outside than LO) make this trade a wash and considering Marion would be taking Tri 101 and Odom has graduated not an attractive move for me. On top of everything else Marion is more expensive contract wise.
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Last edited by LA_Lakers_Rule on Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject:

BTW - I'm not for the Odom for Marion deal. Too lateral. And while I'd like to dump Cook - I wouldn't put him in this deal with Odom either. Although Cook does fit the Suns style of chucking pretty well.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject:

why take away one of the few advantages we have over phx? the odom/marion matchup is one area that gives us a chance.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject:

Luca Brasi wrote:
if marion didn't have a penchant for disappearing in the playoffs, i'd sign off on this deal.


He didn't dissappear against the spurs last year.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject:

I wouldn't do the Marion deal either.

The JO deal was called lateral (basically because people liked the word) but it did answer the questions about 2nd option, post presence, and defensive anchor and all it meant was an extra body.

Marion for Odom? Different players but where as Odom can only score after setting himself up, Marion only can if someone is spoon feeding. Neither would score well enough as the number 2 guy in the tri. Neither are the initiator eiher.

Just guys with great measurables and fill a stat sheet up but ain't winning you jack.


One condition I would do the deal....

Odom's injuries is one reason to do that deal. Just too fragile.

Early in the summer I said that everyone would ask for Odom/Bynum - especially Indy. Only way to get them off that demand is to deal Odom first. With the market full of bad Ks for JO - a Kwame, Bynum, change deal gets much more appeal for Indy.

Give me some of that Kobe, Marion, JO pipe.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject:

First of all, I was most against the Odom for Marion rumors as they've been going on for quite some time now, but I would do the trade now for sure.
Why I'd do the trade:

-Marion averages just as many rebounds as Odom, but is a better defender (when he's not guarding Kobe or Odom). Marion can give us at least an above average defender at the 3 position.

-As another poster said, Marion would excel as a second scorer better than Odom does. For all the people who say Odom creates his own shot better than Marion, good, but how often does the guy do it? Marion can certainly hit open jumpshots better than Odom as proven by his play with Nash, and he would easily average 20 points per game here as the number 2 scorer, something Odom cannot do.

-Marion would bring new life to the team, and we need that energy. I'm tired of watching Odom go out there and give 65-70% every night and play inconsistent. If anything Marion will give consistent hustle.

-Odom's injury and slow recovery will be yet another excuse for him to perform below expectations this season. We can't expect Odom to play every game like he did the final one in the playoffs, because he just doesn't care enough in my opinion.

I think the main reason people would not do this trade is because it would make the Suns better, which is true. Odom and Cook would certainly thrive in the Suns offense, but Odom's injuries and inconsistency are too much. The deal would make us both better but I think the ultimate reason it would never go down is because although we are a better team with Marion, the Suns would be instant championship favorites with Odom and Cook (as weird as that sounds).

Also trading for Marion would be under the assumption that Kwame Browns thick head can comprehend the 4 spot in the triangle offense, which is unlikely.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject:

They had me at "with Brian Cook."
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject:

I would rather have LO over Marion. I think Marion is good but I also think Phoenixs style of play contributes a great deal to his success. In the triangle I don't think he would be as successful. LO on the other hand has 2 years of the tri under his belt. I think it better if he stays.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject:

Tony Montana wrote:
They had me at "with Brian Cook."
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject:

I wouldnt do this trade if I were the Lakers... Out of all the trade rumors I think this is the worst one... LOL knowing mitch this is probably the one he bites on ! I PRAY NOT Because Odom in Phx would be scary and Marion in the slow halfcourt triangle would struggle imo. If they want to give us Marion so bad then hell send them Walton, Kwame and Cook! and if its Odom they want then replace Walton for Odom, Kwame and Cook and ask for Amare in return! Any other deal with Phx should not be contemplated by the Lakers. Not when Phx is already better than us! To make them even stronger would be suicide!
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