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Laker Lurker
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 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | I would trade Bynum for JO in a heartbeat!
Kobe+JO would be a great duo even if it means losing LO.
JO for Bynum and LO while a tough pill to swallow I think ultimately would improve our team. Its not a lateral move because JO is an allstar, great defender and while he may not be in the post as much as people seem to want he still has the post moves to go down and play there. Kwame + JO on defense are a huge improvement from Kwame+LO or Bynum+LO.
JO=Allstar and a true 2nd option
Bynum=project 3 to 5 years away (too long to wait when we have Kobe)
LO=great all around talent but underachiever.
JO>Bynum+LO |
Bynum + LO > JO who won't make a difference in the WC with only Kobe around. |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | We seem to all agree (well 99% of us) that Bynum + parts for JO is worth it, but we also seem to agree (well 85-90% of us) that Bynum + LO for JO is not worth it.
Is there really any more debate to it than that? |
While it does seem that most agree that Bynum/LO is too much for JO, I don't think nearly as many people agree that Bynum/filler for JO is a good deal. Some people just overrate Bynum and expect too much out of the kid. Not his fault, really, since the incompetent front office is who put all these unfair expectations on his shoulders. |
Isn't it Indiana who is insisting on Bynum? If so, doesn't that mean that they are overrating him? |
If the Lakers didn't have Kobe, and were content with rebuilding for 3-5 years, I'd go with Bynum, too. It's a risk, as he can turn out to be a bust, but it's a risk that is worth it, because JO in 5 years will be on the decline.
Since the Lakers' best chances of winning are doing so WITHIN that 3-5 year period, I'd take the proven player now over the project player. It's all a matter of the positions that both teams are in. The Lakers are in a position where they could win now with Kobe/LO/JO. The Pacers are in a position where they won't be doing much of anything with or without JO, so they might as well trade him for youth and hope that they strike gold. Do you seriously think that Indiana would be trading a 24 year old JO, or that New Jersey would be offering a 26 year old Jason Kidd for Andrew Bynum?
| Quote: | | Bynum + LO > JO who won't make a difference in the WC with only Kobe around. |
JO will immediately improve with Kobe to take the pressure off. Further, he will make a tremendous defensive impact for the Lakers, regardless of who else is around. That much is certain. How far the Lakers would go is another story all together.
Regardless, the crux of this debate hasn't been giving up both LO and Bynum. It's Bynum, Critt, and filler. I think the Lakers would be insane to pass up on the KB/JO/LO trio. Others, obviously disagree.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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re4ee
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't Indiana halt all JO trade talk? Aren't they the ones who have repeatedly turned down every offer? How is that somehow Mitch's fault?
Isn't it just good business sense to plan for a little further down the line than 1-2 or 3 years? 29 teams will not win the championship any given year, does tha make 29 failed franchises? Unless you can be 99% certain that a move gives you a legit shot at the championship next season or the one following that, why would you trade the ONE young player who seems to impress the most BBall execs?
Does there look to be a trade that supplies immediate success, that still leaves a somewhat young core to continue that success? If not, is any move that appears to be plausibly doable worth risking the post-Kobe Lakers being even worse for several years while collecting lottery picks?
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lurker wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | I would trade Bynum for JO in a heartbeat!
Kobe+JO would be a great duo even if it means losing LO.
JO for Bynum and LO while a tough pill to swallow I think ultimately would improve our team. Its not a lateral move because JO is an allstar, great defender and while he may not be in the post as much as people seem to want he still has the post moves to go down and play there. Kwame + JO on defense are a huge improvement from Kwame+LO or Bynum+LO.
JO=Allstar and a true 2nd option
Bynum=project 3 to 5 years away (too long to wait when we have Kobe)
LO=great all around talent but underachiever.
JO>Bynum+LO |
Bynum + LO > JO who won't make a difference in the WC with only Kobe around. |
Its not only Kobe around. YOu have Walton who could do what LO is supposed to do and facilitate, Fisher is back who is a true leader, Kwame is a good defender and you ahve Mihm who is healthy. Turiaf should probably start this year, have you seen him play for france this summer? Then you have Critt who people seem to think is gonna be great. Its not just JO and Kobe + we still have the veteran minium and part of the MLE to get someone else. |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| re4ee wrote: | Didn't Indiana halt all JO trade talk? Aren't they the ones who have repeatedly turned down every offer? How is that somehow Mitch's fault?
Isn't it just good business sense to plan for a little further down the line than 1-2 or 3 years? 29 teams will not win the championship any given year, does tha make 29 failed franchises? Unless you can be 99% certain that a move gives you a legit shot at the championship next season or the one following that, why would you trade the ONE young player who seems to impress the most BBall execs?
Does there look to be a trade that supplies immediate success, that still leaves a somewhat young core to continue that success? If not, is any move that appears to be plausibly doable worth risking the post-Kobe Lakers being even worse for several years while collecting lottery picks? |
Thing is, as good as Bynum will be in 5 years, he will not be nearly as good as Kobe/JO/LO would be today. The point is giving the Lakers the best chance to win a title, period. No one can EVER guarantee it. Getting KG for free would NOT have guaranteed it. It would have made us better, a contender for sure, but it wouldn't have guaranteed a thing.
If you think that trading Bynum should be off limits unless we guarantee a title, then I guess you think he should be untouchable, period. There are no guarantees with that. Ever.
We may just agree to disagree, but I'll take primeKobe/primeLO/primeJO over primeBynum/primeCrittenton every day of the week.
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | We seem to all agree (well 99% of us) that Bynum + parts for JO is worth it, but we also seem to agree (well 85-90% of us) that Bynum + LO for JO is not worth it.
Is there really any more debate to it than that? |
While it does seem that most agree that Bynum/LO is too much for JO, I don't think nearly as many people agree that Bynum/filler for JO is a good deal. Some people just overrate Bynum and expect too much out of the kid. Not his fault, really, since the incompetent front office is who put all these unfair expectations on his shoulders. |
Isn't it Indiana who is insisting on Bynum? If so, doesn't that mean that they are overrating him? |
If the Lakers didn't have Kobe, and were content with rebuilding for 3-5 years, I'd go with Bynum, too. It's a risk, as he can turn out to be a bust, but it's a risk that is worth it, because JO in 5 years will be on the decline.
Since the Lakers' best chances of winning are doing so WITHIN that 3-5 year period, I'd take the proven player now over the project player. It's all a matter of the positions that both teams are in. The Lakers are in a position where they could win now with Kobe/LO/JO. The Pacers are in a position where they won't be doing much of anything with or without JO, so they might as well trade him for youth and hope that they strike gold. Do you seriously think that Indiana would be trading a 24 year old JO, or that New Jersey would be offering a 26 year old Jason Kidd for Andrew Bynum?
| Quote: | | Bynum + LO > JO who won't make a difference in the WC with only Kobe around. |
JO will immediately improve with Kobe to take the pressure off. Further, he will make a tremendous defensive impact for the Lakers, regardless of who else is around. That much is certain. How far the Lakers would go is another story all together.
Regardless, the crux of this debate hasn't been giving up both LO and Bynum. It's Bynum, Critt, and filler. I think the Lakers would be insane to pass up on the KB/JO/LO trio. Others, obviously disagree. |
Jeffs I agree with you !!! In anycase if you could get your hands on Jermain Oneal who is a perrenial ALLSTAR I think you have to find a way to get it done, even if you overpay! |
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | I would trade Bynum for JO in a heartbeat!
Kobe+JO would be a great duo even if it means losing LO.
JO for Bynum and LO while a tough pill to swallow I think ultimately would improve our team. Its not a lateral move because JO is an allstar, great defender and while he may not be in the post as much as people seem to want he still has the post moves to go down and play there. Kwame + JO on defense are a huge improvement from Kwame+LO or Bynum+LO.
JO=Allstar and a true 2nd option
Bynum=project 3 to 5 years away (too long to wait when we have Kobe)
LO=great all around talent but underachiever.
JO>Bynum+LO |
Improve the team? You think that would be enough to win a championship?
JO= used to be an Allstar/His shooting percentages as a first option bigman are suspect. Kobe can't help him if he can't hit that J he enjoys so much these days.
Bynum=something nobody really knows yet. He is ahead of JO at the same age... That in itself is reason for concern.
LO= when healthy gives you but one less skill than JO, and adds about 3 or 4 more. Coming down the stretch of last season injuries and all was a rock next to Bryant... Negatives for this player aren't nearly as accurate as they should be labled as excuses being struggled up to attain Jermaine Oneal... At this point, pro Oneal folks should just say " I like JO better than LO" There really is no reality in butchering Lamar Odoms integrity as a ball player... The second half of last season, and into the playoffs should have erased any doubts in anybodies mind that Lamar Odom belongs in the purple and gold...
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Its obvious that LO + KObe as a duo won't get it done, I don't care if LO stays healthy all yaer, its just not enough. Bynum is a project and would not be a factor in winning a championship in the near future. I think Mitch need to find a way to improve NOW! JO is an allstar and I think would help alot, I would love to keep LO also but Mitch is not savy enough to get something like that done. |
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Laker Lurker
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Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 7652
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | golakersgo121 wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | rebirth wrote: | | hold out fro a bynum/kwame/critt package. if not I am not against moving both LO and bynum for JO.. I dont think that is a lateral move, we are a better team especially defensively. |
They will not trade Bynum. THey think he's the future and won't do it. If they had any intentions or desire to move him we would have Jason Kidd right now. |
...and would be stupid doing this trade. Plain stupid... |
Just as we would be plain stupid for not trading Bynum and Crittenton for a six-time All Star. |
Seems to be that your view hinges on how you value prospects. Do I take it from your comments that you do not consider Bynum and Crittenton blue chip prospects? If that is the case, then your view is completely understandable to me. |
My thing isn't really undervaluing prospects, but just putting a lot more value in proven talent. JO is only one of four players in the NBA that has averaged 19/9/2 over the past 5 seasons. His averages are something like 19.5/9.9/2.2 over the span, essentially a 20/10 player. He is a consistent producer on offense and, more importantly, defense.
I don't really think Bynum will be that good. Maybe I just have lower expectations for him than a lot of people here do, but I really don't see him being better than maybe a 16-18/10/2.5 kinda guy. These stats are very solid, but I don't think it makes sense to wait another 3-4 years for him to achieve these stats, when we could have them now with JO.
As for Javaris, I'd like to keep the guy, but I wouldn't let him be a deal breaker. Unlike Bynum, he comes into the NBA with a much better skillset. He doesn't have to "learn" how to play like Bynum did (which adds on a few years of development time), but just to refine his skills. Maybe the Lakers got a gem with their late pick - we don't know yet. I guess that's where it comes back to my emphasis on proven talent. |
Agree. If Crit is not enough , throw in Farmar but not Turiaf a/c need him, at PF for JO to play at C and LO at Sf |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | LO= when healthy gives you but one less skill than JO, and adds about 3 or 4 more. Coming down the stretch of last season injuries and all was a rock next to Bryant... Negatives for this player aren't nearly as accurate as they should be labled as excuses being struggled up to attain Jermaine Oneal... At this point, pro Oneal folks should just say " I like JO better than LO" There really is no reality in butchering Lamar Odoms integrity as a ball player... The second half of last season, and into the playoffs should have erased any doubts in anybodies mind that Lamar Odom belongs in the purple and gold... |
Huh? One skill?
Rebounding? Even.
Shot blocking/Help Defense? JO.
Man defense? JO.
Scoring? JO.
FTs? JO.
Passing? LO.
That's one area of the game where LO is better. He is a better passer and ball handler. He can take the ball baseline to baseline and finish like a guard. That's great to have in a player. However, he clearly isn't capable of initiating the offense for the Lakers (tried and failed, that's why Kobe does it now), so a lot of his ball handling talent is wasted. We NEED a player like JO, and LO struggles to fill that type of role.
Stop bringing up the playoffs the last two seasons. If Odom played against 6'7 power forwards all year long, and averaged 19/13, then we would have no problems. He'd be a Laker for life. Unfortunately, 98% of the time, he actually matches up with a power forward that isn't significantly smaller than him, so he struggles, both defensively and (at times) offensively. In the same situation, JO would not.
WITH ALL THAT SAID, I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF TRADING BYNUM AND ODOM FOR JO! JO is clearly a better player than LO, but he isn't that much better that the Lakers would be good enough to compete for a ring. They'd likely get to the second round, but I don't see them beating West's elite. However, with Kobe, LO, and JO all on the same team, I can see them winning it all.
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Tony Almeida wrote: | | I know it's not a popular opinion, but I still believe trading LO/Bynum for JO isn't all that bad |
Only if you can make a side deal and bring in a legit NBA center to pair with Mihm. |
So true... Why not just forfeit the season after doing that deal as well? There would be no difference. You lose two players who would collectively easily out produce anything a "tri ignorant" JO would bring to the table. You add to that as ventura implies a drop in bigmen of which can't possibly be beneficial unless you were only losing Kwame. One of the bigs who is only a season, or so from becoming a force. JO's salary means the Lakers damned well better win with him, or they are in big trouble in the seasons to come.
That is not a trade that is going to make an impact of any beneficial size over not doing that deal... Hence, the Lakers are ignoring it... As well they should... |
Like I said, I completely understand the risks of doing a LO/Bynum for JO trade. The underlying point of my post was defense and the impact of having a hypothetical defensive lineup which could be tops in the league.
And again, I've already stated several times, I would choose a Kobe/LO/JO trio over anything else we could currently have. |
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | Quote: | | LO= when healthy gives you but one less skill than JO, and adds about 3 or 4 more. Coming down the stretch of last season injuries and all was a rock next to Bryant... Negatives for this player aren't nearly as accurate as they should be labled as excuses being struggled up to attain Jermaine Oneal... At this point, pro Oneal folks should just say " I like JO better than LO" There really is no reality in butchering Lamar Odoms integrity as a ball player... The second half of last season, and into the playoffs should have erased any doubts in anybodies mind that Lamar Odom belongs in the purple and gold... |
Huh? One skill?
Rebounding? Even.
Shot blocking/Help Defense? JO.
Man defense? JO.
Scoring? JO.
FTs? JO.
Passing? LO.
That's one area of the game where LO is better. He is a better passer and ball handler. He can take the ball baseline to baseline and finish like a guard. That's great to have in a player. However, he clearly isn't capable of initiating the offense for the Lakers (tried and failed, that's why Kobe does it now), so a lot of his ball handling talent is wasted. We NEED a player like JO, and LO struggles to fill that type of role.
Stop bringing up the playoffs the last two seasons. If Odom played against 6'7 power forwards all year long, and averaged 19/13, then we would have no problems. He'd be a Laker for life. Unfortunately, 98% of the time, he actually matches up with a power forward that isn't significantly smaller than him, so he struggles, both defensively and (at times) offensively. In the same situation, JO would not.
WITH ALL THAT SAID, I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF TRADING BYNUM AND ODOM FOR JO! JO is clearly a better player than LO, but he isn't that much better that the Lakers would be good enough to compete for a ring. They'd likely get to the second round, but I don't see them beating West's elite. However, with Kobe, LO, and JO all on the same team, I can see them winning it all. |
You forgot ball handling. |
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | Quote: | | LO= when healthy gives you but one less skill than JO, and adds about 3 or 4 more. Coming down the stretch of last season injuries and all was a rock next to Bryant... Negatives for this player aren't nearly as accurate as they should be labled as excuses being struggled up to attain Jermaine Oneal... At this point, pro Oneal folks should just say " I like JO better than LO" There really is no reality in butchering Lamar Odoms integrity as a ball player... The second half of last season, and into the playoffs should have erased any doubts in anybodies mind that Lamar Odom belongs in the purple and gold... |
Huh? One skill?
Rebounding? Even.
Shot blocking/Help Defense? JO.
Man defense? JO.
Scoring? JO.
FTs? JO.
Passing? LO.
That's one area of the game where LO is better. He is a better passer and ball handler. He can take the ball baseline to baseline and finish like a guard. That's great to have in a player. However, he clearly isn't capable of initiating the offense for the Lakers (tried and failed, that's why Kobe does it now), so a lot of his ball handling talent is wasted. We NEED a player like JO, and LO struggles to fill that type of role.
Stop bringing up the playoffs the last two seasons. If Odom played against 6'7 power forwards all year long, and averaged 19/13, then we would have no problems. He'd be a Laker for life. Unfortunately, 98% of the time, he actually matches up with a power forward that isn't significantly smaller than him, so he struggles, both defensively and (at times) offensively. In the same situation, JO would not.
WITH ALL THAT SAID, I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF TRADING BYNUM AND ODOM FOR JO! JO is clearly a better player than LO, but he isn't that much better that the Lakers would be good enough to compete for a ring. They'd likely get to the second round, but I don't see them beating West's elite. However, with Kobe, LO, and JO all on the same team, I can see them winning it all. |
You forgot ball handling. |
Note the bold. 
_________________
Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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Laker Lurker
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Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 7652
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | Laker Lurker wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | I would trade Bynum for JO in a heartbeat!
Kobe+JO would be a great duo even if it means losing LO.
JO for Bynum and LO while a tough pill to swallow I think ultimately would improve our team. Its not a lateral move because JO is an allstar, great defender and while he may not be in the post as much as people seem to want he still has the post moves to go down and play there. Kwame + JO on defense are a huge improvement from Kwame+LO or Bynum+LO.
JO=Allstar and a true 2nd option
Bynum=project 3 to 5 years away (too long to wait when we have Kobe)
LO=great all around talent but underachiever.
JO>Bynum+LO |
Bynum + LO > JO who won't make a difference in the WC with only Kobe around. |
Its not only Kobe around. YOu have Walton who could do what LO is supposed to do and facilitate, Fisher is back who is a true leader, Kwame is a good defender and you ahve Mihm who is healthy. Turiaf should probably start this year, have you seen him play for france this summer? Then you have Critt who people seem to think is gonna be great. Its not just JO and Kobe + we still have the veteran minium and part of the MLE to get someone else. |
Walton is ok but he's the weak link against faster and quicker SFs. He was ok beginning of last year a/c he had a 3 pt shot and could at least pull his weight as starting SF but even before injury, he had already tailed off. We need LO at SF. Without LO, Lakers wont be in title contention in 3-4 years which is Bynums expected breakout timetable so what is the sense in going to all this trouble |
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OregonLakerGuy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2005
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Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeffs wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | Quote: | | LO= when healthy gives you but one less skill than JO, and adds about 3 or 4 more. Coming down the stretch of last season injuries and all was a rock next to Bryant... Negatives for this player aren't nearly as accurate as they should be labled as excuses being struggled up to attain Jermaine Oneal... At this point, pro Oneal folks should just say " I like JO better than LO" There really is no reality in butchering Lamar Odoms integrity as a ball player... The second half of last season, and into the playoffs should have erased any doubts in anybodies mind that Lamar Odom belongs in the purple and gold... |
Huh? One skill?
Rebounding? Even.
Shot blocking/Help Defense? JO.
Man defense? JO.
Scoring? JO.
FTs? JO.
Passing? LO.
That's one area of the game where LO is better. He is a better passer and ball handler. He can take the ball baseline to baseline and finish like a guard. That's great to have in a player. However, he clearly isn't capable of initiating the offense for the Lakers (tried and failed, that's why Kobe does it now), so a lot of his ball handling talent is wasted. We NEED a player like JO, and LO struggles to fill that type of role.
Stop bringing up the playoffs the last two seasons. If Odom played against 6'7 power forwards all year long, and averaged 19/13, then we would have no problems. He'd be a Laker for life. Unfortunately, 98% of the time, he actually matches up with a power forward that isn't significantly smaller than him, so he struggles, both defensively and (at times) offensively. In the same situation, JO would not.
WITH ALL THAT SAID, I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF TRADING BYNUM AND ODOM FOR JO! JO is clearly a better player than LO, but he isn't that much better that the Lakers would be good enough to compete for a ring. They'd likely get to the second round, but I don't see them beating West's elite. However, with Kobe, LO, and JO all on the same team, I can see them winning it all. |
You forgot ball handling. |
Note the bold. |
My bad  |
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lakersboy
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Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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i have nothing to say about jo because if i talk about him, i may get booted from here again, you just never know.  the last boot left a black and blue mark. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lurker wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | I would trade Bynum for JO in a heartbeat!
Kobe+JO would be a great duo even if it means losing LO.
JO for Bynum and LO while a tough pill to swallow I think ultimately would improve our team. Its not a lateral move because JO is an allstar, great defender and while he may not be in the post as much as people seem to want he still has the post moves to go down and play there. Kwame + JO on defense are a huge improvement from Kwame+LO or Bynum+LO.
JO=Allstar and a true 2nd option
Bynum=project 3 to 5 years away (too long to wait when we have Kobe)
LO=great all around talent but underachiever.
JO>Bynum+LO |
Bynum + LO > JO who won't make a difference in the WC with only Kobe around. |
Bynum + LO = first round exit. Do something! |
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Laker Lurker wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | I would trade Bynum for JO in a heartbeat!
Kobe+JO would be a great duo even if it means losing LO.
JO for Bynum and LO while a tough pill to swallow I think ultimately would improve our team. Its not a lateral move because JO is an allstar, great defender and while he may not be in the post as much as people seem to want he still has the post moves to go down and play there. Kwame + JO on defense are a huge improvement from Kwame+LO or Bynum+LO.
JO=Allstar and a true 2nd option
Bynum=project 3 to 5 years away (too long to wait when we have Kobe)
LO=great all around talent but underachiever.
JO>Bynum+LO |
Bynum + LO > JO who won't make a difference in the WC with only Kobe around. |
Bynum + LO = first round exit. Do something! |
I am amazed that you can state that so flatly. |
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re4ee
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | i have nothing to say about jo because if i talk about him, i may get booted from here again, you just never know. the last boot left a black and blue mark. |
 I dare not say more.
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re4ee
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Indiana is no longer shopping Jermaine, the point is moot!
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| re4ee wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | i have nothing to say about jo because if i talk about him, i may get booted from here again, you just never know. the last boot left a black and blue mark. |
I dare not say more. |
you feel what i'm saying, huh ref.  |
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re4ee
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | re4ee wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | i have nothing to say about jo because if i talk about him, i may get booted from here again, you just never know. the last boot left a black and blue mark. |
I dare not say more. |
you feel what i'm saying, huh ref. |
Yup!
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thumpinghead
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| re4ee wrote: | | Indiana is no longer shopping Jermaine, the point is moot! |
Who says?
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | Its obvious that LO + KObe as a duo won't get it done, I don't care if LO stays healthy all yaer, its just not enough. Bynum is a project and would not be a factor in winning a championship in the near future. I think Mitch need to find a way to improve NOW! JO is an allstar and I think would help alot, I would love to keep LO also but Mitch is not savy enough to get something like that done. |
There is no such thing as "a duo" getting it done anymore....
This is the 21rst century where the officiating has changed and the game has evolved.. If you aren't at least "3 deep in solid talent" you're spinning your wheels... dropping LO to gain JO is a move that will be futile towards winning a championship... It is not enough of an upgrade, no matter how anybody feels about the effectiveness of Kobe & LO as a team. Yes, as talented as the two of them are, there is a need for some help. JO is not that dominating that he could make the kind of difference you are talking about. He is no Shaq... So all the Lakers end up doing is ending up in the same place, or worse with a player that will be taking half a season to acclimate... If JO can't be added without dramatic subtraction the Lakers will have done little to nothing towards improving the teams chances...
A waste of time, and a loss of forward momentum...
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | Quote: | | LO= when healthy gives you but one less skill than JO, and adds about 3 or 4 more. Coming down the stretch of last season injuries and all was a rock next to Bryant... Negatives for this player aren't nearly as accurate as they should be labled as excuses being struggled up to attain Jermaine Oneal... At this point, pro Oneal folks should just say " I like JO better than LO" There really is no reality in butchering Lamar Odoms integrity as a ball player... The second half of last season, and into the playoffs should have erased any doubts in anybodies mind that Lamar Odom belongs in the purple and gold... |
Huh? One skill?
Rebounding? Even.
Shot blocking/Help Defense? JO.
Man defense? JO.
Scoring? JO.
FTs? JO.
Passing? LO.
That's one area of the game where LO is better. He is a better passer and ball handler. He can take the ball baseline to baseline and finish like a guard. That's great to have in a player. However, he clearly isn't capable of initiating the offense for the Lakers (tried and failed, that's why Kobe does it now), so a lot of his ball handling talent is wasted. We NEED a player like JO, and LO struggles to fill that type of role.
Stop bringing up the playoffs the last two seasons. If Odom played against 6'7 power forwards all year long, and averaged 19/13, then we would have no problems. He'd be a Laker for life. Unfortunately, 98% of the time, he actually matches up with a power forward that isn't significantly smaller than him, so he struggles, both defensively and (at times) offensively. In the same situation, JO would not.
WITH ALL THAT SAID, I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF TRADING BYNUM AND ODOM FOR JO! JO is clearly a better player than LO, but he isn't that much better that the Lakers would be good enough to compete for a ring. They'd likely get to the second round, but I don't see them beating West's elite. However, with Kobe, LO, and JO all on the same team, I can see them winning it all. |
You forgot ball handling. |
Note the bold. |
My bad |
Scoring? You think that 3 or 4 pts is enough of an upgrade to call Oneal dominant in that category?
Kobe won't be deferring to ONeal immediately upon coming down the floor so, I doubt that average stays the same.. So if anything I would call that nothing above even as well...
FG% 482 for Odom compared to Jermaine Oneal's 436
Odom may struggle defensively against the leagues elite PF but, no, he uses the leagues pf with ease... That has never been an issue and the main reason Jackson uses him out of position in that fashion...
So, if you look closely the only thing you are really getting over Odom from the now notorious jump shooting bigman in Oneal is shotblocking, and man defense... Kwame Brown already handles the man defense against the leagues best 4's so that is already covered. Shot blocking is all you get that stands out from Oneal... With the return of Mihm even that becomes a minimal difference...
Lets just get that straight before we agree that the threesome would be challenging for the championship
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