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What type of BIG talent is Caron/filler worth? |
AllStar BIG |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
SuperStar BIG |
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9% |
[ 5 ] |
Solid starting BIG |
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72% |
[ 40 ] |
Role BIG who fills need |
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10% |
[ 6 ] |
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Total Votes : 55 |
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GameCock-MD Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 4498
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: What is our trade bait REALLY worth???? |
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What do we expect to get for our trade bait?
SuperStar - KG/TD/Shaq
AllStar - Walker/Webber/JO/Amare/Dirk/Mag/Z/Nene (*)/K-Mart
Solid Starter - PJ/Ratliff/Camby/Zach/Boozer/Blount
Role player - all others
We crack on Mitch for not getting this guy or that guy but what does he have to work with?
Caron - streaky shooter/poor-avg defender/poor ballhandler/non-existent playmaking skills...
Vlade - buyout.
Cook - 3pt shooting BIG.
Sasha - ...
Chris Mihm - 7 ft tall.
Other expiring contracts...(DG/Slava/et cetera)
Alot of people SEVERELY overvalue our trade bait...we have one player that is coveted and that's only because he is young and athletic...people see potential to be great but no greatness has materialized as of yet...
The rest of our trade bait is just mediocre (AT BEST) compared to what we expect in return and what other teams have to offer...
You don't trade BIG for small unless you are getting a heck of a deal...that's the rule we would like to ignore if it's in our favor...
What BIG do you expect Caron to fetch for us?
Why is Caron a vast upgrade over this team's starting SG/SF?
Why would our offer be better than 28 other teams?
Only realistic stuff counts...hope this helps you guys to realize how UNREASONABLE your trade expectations have become...
Last edited by GameCock-MD on Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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djb Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2004 Posts: 11673
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Solid Starter. _________________ Los Angeles Lakers |
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Kobe-Wan Kenobi Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 545
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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not as much as ppl r hoping for... thats for sure |
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Ko8e8ryant Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5562
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Caron plus expiring $$$ should get us a starting 4 |
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GameCock-MD Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 4498
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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djb wrote: | Solid Starter. |
Anybody in mind?
Why would the other team trade a solid starting BIG for Caron and filler? |
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GameCock-MD Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 4498
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe-Wan Kenobi wrote: | not as much as ppl r hoping for... thats for sure |
That's an understatement!
Ko8e8ryant wrote: | Caron plus expiring $$$ should get us a starting 4 |
Same question as above...for whom and why would the other team do that trade???? |
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sodapoppenski Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 7364 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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For what it's worth, putting "Superstar" below AllStar is actually kind of affecting your poll. "Solid Starter" sounds like someone who is your average starter, but reliable or established enough that we know he'll continue to be a starter for the bulk of his career.
To me, Caron and filler is worth a very good starter (not an AllStar for sure, but also probably someone considered a "Star" by some people's accounts).
Someone like Boozer or Mags (there now), or maybe someone where part of their value is based on some remaining upside (Chandler?).
By no means am I implying that Chicago, for instance, has the need or the matching contracts or the interest in Caron to make that trade work... just saying, Boozer, Mags and Chandler are on the level of players I expect we should hold out for if we move Caron... and I'm not sure simply saying "solid starter" is a fair enough way to rate those guys.
Soda |
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GameCock-MD Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 4498
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'll try to edit my first post in this thread to include an example of each... |
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sodapoppenski Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 7364 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Actually that's one step better than what I'd said, not a bad idea. And not to sound too critical, because it's hard to post a poll and make it altogether fair... I just wanted to clarify my own opinion on Caron's value.
Soda |
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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully PJ Brown |
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GameCock-MD Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Posts: 4498
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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sodapoppenski wrote: | Actually that's one step better than what I'd said, not a bad idea. And not to sound too critical, because it's hard to post a poll and make it altogether fair... I just wanted to clarify my own opinion on Caron's value.
Soda |
NOTE:
That's not an ALL INCLUSIVE example list...just enough to show what I mean by each category...
Is that better??? |
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sodapoppenski Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 7364 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Actually yep, much better and thanks for the edit.
I think you switched the titles though. In the post you just edited you put "SuperStar" above "AllStar."
Either way, to me I'll put Caron's value on the early brink of the second category you listed, regardless of what it's titled.
That was the confusing part ot me, is more that when someone says "SuperStar" I'm pretty much thinking AllStar anyways.
It's probably just person to person as far as how it sounds, but I guess I'd break it down into SuperStar or AllStar for the first category, and then say something like "Star" or "fringe AllStar" for the second, then Solid Starter, etc.
Either way, I feel like we can get back a fringe AllStar type. Someone like Mags, Boozer, Chandler (again for him, partly upside based), etc.
Soda |
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Ko8e8ryant Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5562
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="GameCock-MD"] Kobe-Wan Kenobi wrote: | not as much as ppl r hoping for... thats for sure |
That's an understatement!
Ko8e8ryant wrote: | Caron plus expiring $$$ should get us a starting 4 |
Same question as above...for whom and why would the other team do that trade????[/quote]
for contracts, teams make trades like that all the time for strictly contract and money issues...where have you been? |
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nextphenom23 Star Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005 Posts: 1284 Location: VA
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Well you're looking at the Hornets and Bobcats after Butler and they dont have alot to offer. So I say his value is really not that high. _________________ NBA Championships: 2000,2001,2002,_____
The Spurs will never live up to the dynasty we created |
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lakersflambe Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 1408 Location: Japan
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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An impact power player? |
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djb Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2004 Posts: 11673
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:43 am Post subject: |
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GameCock-MD wrote: | djb wrote: | Solid Starter. |
Anybody in mind?
Why would the other team trade a solid starting BIG for Caron and filler? |
Depends pn their need, but my idea of a Solid Starter is a little less than what you gave as examples. Alot of those guys are borderline all-stars, i'm thinking more along the lines of 8/8, maybe 1.3 BPG _________________ Los Angeles Lakers |
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DNA Star Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2005 Posts: 1694
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:58 am Post subject: |
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You will never get a trade in which the only variable is talent. Mitch's only hope is to take advantage of cheap owners like Shinn, otherwise none of the trades people propose here will go through. Every trade seems to be ripping off the opposing teams, without any willingness to take risk whatsoever.
In an ideal world(that is every team was equally smart and the owners do not trade on the basis of cost, so that teams like us and Dallas don't get an unfair advantage), Caron for Brown is really the only realistic trade available. |
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Green Goblin Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Feb 2005 Posts: 138
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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At least we're all on the same page here. Pretty much.
Caron and the rest of the crew are worth a solid starting big and lets leave it at that. |
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