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TACH
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 Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Dow Industrials Plunge More Than 500 points!!! |
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Wow.. the makert has really taken a dive in that past 30 minutes...
| Quote: | Dow Industrials Plunge More Than 500 on Growing Concerns That Stocks Are Starting a Correction
NEW YORK (AP) -- The Dow Jones industrial average is down more than 500 points with about an hour of trading left today. The Nasdaq Composite is off more than 100.
A 9 percent slide in Chinese stocks, which came a day after investors sent Shanghai's benchmark index to a record high close, set the tone for U.S. trading.
Investors' confidence was knocked down further by data showing that the economy may be decelerating more than anticipated. A Commerce Department report that orders for durable goods in January dropped by the largest amount in three months exacerbated jitters about the direction of the U.S. economy, which were raised a day earlier when former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said the United States may be headed for a recession.
"It looks more and more like the economy is a slow growth economy," said Michael Strauss, chief economist at Commonfund. "Moderate economic growth is good -- an abrupt stop in economic growth scares people." |
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Lakers_2000
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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If you invest it should be for the long term. You can't worry too much about short-term noise like this one.
Prior to this the Dow has had an uninterrupted ascent to the tune of about 2000 points since just last summer. That was the last time I did any major buying. What's a 500 point drop compared to a 2000 point gain?
My net worth will have dropped a few thousand today. But my investment strategy isn't changing at all. This is just one day in the market. |
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TACH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_2000 wrote: | If you invest it should be for the long term. You can't worry too much about short-term noise like this one.
Prior to this the Dow has had an uninterrupted ascent to the tune of about 2000 points since just last summer. That was the last time I did any major buying. What's a 500 point drop compared to a 2000 point gain?
My net worth will have dropped a few thousand today. But my investment strategy isn't changing at all. This is just one day in the market. |
Any time the Dow drops 500 points in one session, it's cause for concern...
The Tresury mentioned the 'R' word today... and China took a 9% hit yesterday (other foriegn exchanges followed suit but not to the tune of 9%)... all contributors today sell-off...
Now for the million dollar question.... Blip? Or Bubble?
13 minutes to go until the close, Dow is down 375 points...
Last edited by TACH on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | Lakers_2000 wrote: | If you invest it should be for the long term. You can't worry too much about short-term noise like this one.
Prior to this the Dow has had an uninterrupted ascent to the tune of about 2000 points since just last summer. That was the last time I did any major buying. What's a 500 point drop compared to a 2000 point gain?
My net worth will have dropped a few thousand today. But my investment strategy isn't changing at all. This is just one day in the market. |
Any time the Dow drops 500 points in one session, it's cause for concern...
The Tresury mentioned the 'R' word today... and China took a 9% hit yesterday (other foriegn exchanges followed suit but not to the tune of 9%)... all contributors today sell-off...
Now for the million dollar question.... Blip? Or Bubble?
13 minutes to go until, Dow is down 375 points... |
I'm going to say this is beginning of a sharp correction. After today, every bit of data is going to be micro-analyzed and scrutinized to no end, finding fault where they may not even be any, I would be very short on the market for the rest of the year. |
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TACH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
U.S. stocks plunged to their worst one-day performance since 2001 on Tuesday, with the
Dow Jones Industrial Average dropping 200 points in one minute around 3 p.m. before recovering some ground by the close, after a sell-off in China fueled concerns about growth.
The Dow was down 400 points at 12,331 at the unofficial 4 p.m. close, recovering from a more than 500-point deficit earlier. The blue-chip average lost all its gains for the year, pummeled by big drops in the likes of Alcoa Inc. General Motors Corp. and Citigroup Inc.
Concerns that tighter credit conditions in China and Japan might dampen global growth first sent Shanghai sliding 9% overnight before the sell-off spread to other markets. The S&P 500 index fell 49 points to 1,399, while the tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite took the brunt of the losses, dropping 96 points, or 3.9%, to 2,407. |
Last edited by TACH on Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:33 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Laker_Town
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| okay..I don't understand the market, but what does this potentially mean for the housing market??? |
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Lakers_2000
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Town wrote: | okay..I don't understand the market, but what does this potentially mean for the housing market???
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About as close to nothing as you can get. The housing market is based on its own supply and demand forces. |
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | Quote: |
U.S. stocks plunged to their worst one-day performance since 2001 on Tuesday, with the
Dow Jones Industrial Average dropping 200 points in one minute around 3 p.m. before recovering some ground by the close, after a sell-off in China fueled concerns about growth.
The Dow was down 400 points at 12,331 at the unofficial 4 p.m. close, recovering from a more than 500-point deficit earlier. The blue-chip average lost all its gains for the year, pummeled by big drops in the likes of Alcoa Inc. General Motors Corp. and Citigroup Inc.
Concerns that tighter credit conditions in China and Japan might dampen global growth first sent Shanghai sliding 9% overnight before the sell-off spread to other markets. The S&P 500 index fell 49 points to 1,399, while the tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite took the brunt of the losses, dropping 96 points, or 3.9%, to 2,407. |
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Tach, what was the explanation for that quick ridiculous decline? I mean 200 pts in a minute is like 1987-ish...kinda. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Town wrote: | | okay..I don't understand the market, but what does this potentially mean for the housing market??? |
Probably nothing... The stock market is linked to the economy, but its usefullness as a leading indicator is limited. On a practical level, the market for housing and equities are quite separate.
An erosion of housing market prices (and any growth in foreclosures) is a greater concern, as that has a greater impact on retirement planning and spending on the economy as a whole. |
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Laker_Town
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ thanks.. |
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The cause & effect is likely going the other way here. It was announced that January median prices were down (I think 3.1%, or something like that) from a year ago. That, along with Shanghai yesterday and Greenspans's speech, made a lot of people nervous today. |
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Lakers_2000
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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The S+P 500, which is a much better proxy for the market than the Dow 30, dropped about 3% today. It entered today up 2.5% for the year. After today you're only down on the year by a microscopic amount.
In October 1987 the Dow dropped something like 21% in one day. Today it dropped 3.29%. If you're panicking over that, you need to gain a much longer-term perspective to investing.
money.cnn.com/2007/02/27/magazines/moneymag/marketcrashes.moneymag/index.htm?postversion=2007022716
It takes nerves of steel to shake off a stock drop like the one that came Tuesday - even conservative index-fund investors are more than 3 percent poorer.
But the world's best investors not only shake them off - they thrive on them. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Dow Industrials Plunge More Than 500 points!!! |
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| TACH wrote: |
| Quote: | | Dow Industrials Plunge More Than 500 on Growing Concerns That Stocks Are Starting a Correction" |
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Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. No better way to begin a stock correction than by telling everyone a stock correction is beginning.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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The bottom line is this:
In absence of important economic news, the world equities markets tend to follow one another's lead. An upcoming recession isn't anymore likely to be forecast today than yesterday... and the dip in China was more a reflection of profit taking.
Last edited by angrypuppy on Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TACH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe 4 Prez wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | Quote: |
U.S. stocks plunged to their worst one-day performance since 2001 on Tuesday, with the
Dow Jones Industrial Average dropping 200 points in one minute around 3 p.m. before recovering some ground by the close, after a sell-off in China fueled concerns about growth.
The Dow was down 400 points at 12,331 at the unofficial 4 p.m. close, recovering from a more than 500-point deficit earlier. The blue-chip average lost all its gains for the year, pummeled by big drops in the likes of Alcoa Inc. General Motors Corp. and Citigroup Inc.
Concerns that tighter credit conditions in China and Japan might dampen global growth first sent Shanghai sliding 9% overnight before the sell-off spread to other markets. The S&P 500 index fell 49 points to 1,399, while the tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite took the brunt of the losses, dropping 96 points, or 3.9%, to 2,407. |
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Tach, what was the explanation for that quick ridiculous decline? I mean 200 pts in a minute is like 1987-ish...kinda. |
No idea... I was on the phone talking about the market dropped when I saw the huge drop around 3pm... I thought it was an error at first, but my buddy on the other end of the phone confirmed he was seeing the same thing. We counted/watched at it down as far as 540-550 points...
EDIT: Just read this on thestreet.com:
| Quote: | Around 3 p.m. EST, the industrials, already down more than 200 points, dropped precipitously in a matter of minutes, due in part to what appears to have been a heavy backlog of sell orders that had temporarily clogged the system. At one point, the Dow slumped 546 points before rebounding slightly
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From the NYTimes:
| Quote: | Ethan Harris, the chief United States economist for Lehman Brothers, said the stock sell-off combined with a run-up in bond prices was a classic reaction from investors who are looking to minimize their exposure in a stock market downturn.
Experts noted that three factors appeared to have stoked the panic on Wall Street today. The situation in China and a weak report on durable goods orders in the United States were likely the two major factors. But nervousness over the possible economic impact of rising defaults among high-risk borrowers, known as sub-prime borrowers because their credit histories are often spotty, was also adding to the unease, analysts said.
Analysts said there was no single reason for the plunge, but many have cautioned for months that China’s volatile, roller-coaster market, which has been soaring almost nonstop for more than a year, appeared vulnerable.
The plunge in Chinese stocks had global reverberations. Stocks fell across Europe, with the major indexes in France, Germany and Britain all dropping more than 2 percent. In the United States, trading got off to a bad start and stayed that way. |
For some perceptive:
* The largest one-day percentage drop since 1914 occurred on "Black Monday", October 19, 1987, when the average fell 22.6%.
* The largest one-day percentage gain since 1932, 10.15%, occurred two days later on Wednesday, October 21, bringing the Dow back above 2,000 and in line for a yearly gain.
* On November 21, 1995 the DJIA closed above 5,000 (5,023.55) for the first time.
* On March 29, 1999, the average closed at 10,006.78, its first close above the 10,000 mark.
* On May 3, 1999, the Dow closed at 11,014.70, its first close above 11,000.
The uncertainty of the early 2000s brought a significant bear market, and whether it has ended or simply gone into hibernation has been an ongoing subject of debate.
* On January 14, 2000, the DJIA reached a record high of 11,750.28 in trading before settling at a record closing price of 11,722.98; these two records would not be broken until October 3, 2006.
* The largest one-day point gain in the Dow, an advance of 499.19, or 4.93%, occurred on March 16, 2000, as the broader market approached its top.
* The largest one-day point drop in DJIA history occurred on September 17, 2001, the first day of trading after the September 11, 2001 attacks, when the Dow fell 684.81 points, or 7.1%. By the end of that week, the Dow had fallen 1,369.70 points, or 14.3%. A recovery attempt allowed the average to close the year above 10,000.
* By mid-2002, the average had returned to its 1998 level of 8,000.
* On October 9, 2002, the DJIA bottomed out at 7,286.27 (intra-day low 7,197.49), its lowest close since October 1997.
* By the end of 2003, the Dow returned to the 10,000 level.
* On January 9, 2006 the average broke the 11,000 barrier for the first time since June 2001, closing at 11,011.90.
* In October 2006, four years after its bear market low, the DJIA set fresh record theoretical, intra-day, daily close, weekly, and monthly highs for the first time in almost seven years, closing above 12,000 for the first time on the 19th anniversary of Black Monday.
* On February 27, 2007, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 415.30 points, closing at 12,216.96, the biggest point drop since September 11, 2001. |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Unless you are fully invested in the stock market, seeing a correction should be viewed as a positive thing. Stocks just went on sale today! And the sale might be getting better in the upcoming months. To paraphrase Warren Buffett, buy stocks when everyone else is selling and running for the hills.
I recently put about 4/5 of my net worth into a 5% APR savings account. I'm starting to salivate at the idea of buying bigger chunks of some of my favorite stocks at a greatly reduced price. It'll be interesting to see what happens tomorrow, and the rest of this year. |
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | Kobe 4 Prez wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | Quote: |
U.S. stocks plunged to their worst one-day performance since 2001 on Tuesday, with the
Dow Jones Industrial Average dropping 200 points in one minute around 3 p.m. before recovering some ground by the close, after a sell-off in China fueled concerns about growth.
The Dow was down 400 points at 12,331 at the unofficial 4 p.m. close, recovering from a more than 500-point deficit earlier. The blue-chip average lost all its gains for the year, pummeled by big drops in the likes of Alcoa Inc. General Motors Corp. and Citigroup Inc.
Concerns that tighter credit conditions in China and Japan might dampen global growth first sent Shanghai sliding 9% overnight before the sell-off spread to other markets. The S&P 500 index fell 49 points to 1,399, while the tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite took the brunt of the losses, dropping 96 points, or 3.9%, to 2,407. |
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Tach, what was the explanation for that quick ridiculous decline? I mean 200 pts in a minute is like 1987-ish...kinda. |
No idea... I was on the phone talking about the market dropped when I saw the huge drop around 3pm... I thought it was an error at first, but my buddy on the other end of the phone confirmed he was seeing the same thing. We counted/watched at it down as far as 540-550 points...
EDIT: Just read this on thestreet.com:
| Quote: | Around 3 p.m. EST, the industrials, already down more than 200 points, dropped precipitously in a matter of minutes, due in part to what appears to have been a heavy backlog of sell orders that had temporarily clogged the system. At one point, the Dow slumped 546 points before rebounding slightly
|
From the NYTimes:
| Quote: | Ethan Harris, the chief United States economist for Lehman Brothers, said the stock sell-off combined with a run-up in bond prices was a classic reaction from investors who are looking to minimize their exposure in a stock market downturn.
Experts noted that three factors appeared to have stoked the panic on Wall Street today. The situation in China and a weak report on durable goods orders in the United States were likely the two major factors. But nervousness over the possible economic impact of rising defaults among high-risk borrowers, known as sub-prime borrowers because their credit histories are often spotty, was also adding to the unease, analysts said.
Analysts said there was no single reason for the plunge, but many have cautioned for months that China’s volatile, roller-coaster market, which has been soaring almost nonstop for more than a year, appeared vulnerable.
The plunge in Chinese stocks had global reverberations. Stocks fell across Europe, with the major indexes in France, Germany and Britain all dropping more than 2 percent. In the United States, trading got off to a bad start and stayed that way. |
For some perceptive:
* The largest one-day percentage drop since 1914 occurred on "Black Monday", October 19, 1987, when the average fell 22.6%.
* The largest one-day percentage gain since 1932, 10.15%, occurred two days later on Wednesday, October 21, bringing the Dow back above 2,000 and in line for a yearly gain.
* On November 21, 1995 the DJIA closed above 5,000 (5,023.55) for the first time.
* On March 29, 1999, the average closed at 10,006.78, its first close above the 10,000 mark.
* On May 3, 1999, the Dow closed at 11,014.70, its first close above 11,000.
The uncertainty of the early 2000s brought a significant bear market, and whether it has ended or simply gone into hibernation has been an ongoing subject of debate.
* On January 14, 2000, the DJIA reached a record high of 11,750.28 in trading before settling at a record closing price of 11,722.98; these two records would not be broken until October 3, 2006.
* The largest one-day point gain in the Dow, an advance of 499.19, or 4.93%, occurred on March 16, 2000, as the broader market approached its top.
* The largest one-day point drop in DJIA history occurred on September 17, 2001, the first day of trading after the September 11, 2001 attacks, when the Dow fell 684.81 points, or 7.1%. By the end of that week, the Dow had fallen 1,369.70 points, or 14.3%. A recovery attempt allowed the average to close the year above 10,000.
* By mid-2002, the average had returned to its 1998 level of 8,000.
* On October 9, 2002, the DJIA bottomed out at 7,286.27 (intra-day low 7,197.49), its lowest close since October 1997.
* By the end of 2003, the Dow returned to the 10,000 level.
* On January 9, 2006 the average broke the 11,000 barrier for the first time since June 2001, closing at 11,011.90.
* In October 2006, four years after its bear market low, the DJIA set fresh record theoretical, intra-day, daily close, weekly, and monthly highs for the first time in almost seven years, closing above 12,000 for the first time on the 19th anniversary of Black Monday.
* On February 27, 2007, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 415.30 points, closing at 12,216.96, the biggest point drop since September 11, 2001. |
ah icic, thanks.
Yea I was just watching Mad Money (I love Cramer!) and he did say that it was a "system failure" and comparable to the energy crisis a few years back.
Either way though, the market in my mind did and still needs a further correction in my mind. It'll be a good time to buy if you can weather the storm and have some guts to go against the grain. But for all I know we could rebound tomorrow, who knows lol |
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Indeed! Who knows! |
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Lakers_2000
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Posts: 8333
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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A further correction would be fine by me. I still haven't made my 2007 Roth IRA contribution ($4000). In addition to that I've got 2-3 grand extra that I wouldn't mind throwing in the market. And since I'm not fully invested in one of my accounts I could get some more equities there too if I wanted. Five years from now the market's going to be where it's going to be, but if I have a chance to buy $7000 worth of shares at lower prices I ultimately make more money.
As for the possibility of a recession for next year, economists say maybe 1 in 5. According to lots of uneducated morons we've been in a recession all decade. Some people just don't know what they're talking about, but they seem to get lots of airplay. Those in the know realize we have an excellent economy right now and a recession in the future isn't a very high probability.
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070227/ap_on_bi_ge/economy_13 |
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Socks
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Posts: 10761
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ouch. Not a good day for me for what I'm holding:
AKAM: -7.41%
DWA: -3.04%
INTU: -4.53%
MSFT: -4.13%
RECN: -3.67%
I'm still way up across all of these and am a long term investor, but man, hoping for a bounceback tomorrow. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't look now, but the Shanghai market is getting pummeled for the second straight day, down almost 9 percent. |
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Tony Almeida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Don't look now, but the Shanghai market is getting pummeled for the second straight day, down almost 9 percent. |
So would that be back to back 9 percent declines putting them down approximately 20% in two days?!
Yikes. |
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24KaratGold
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Can someone explain to me why this happened?
_________________
Double rings > Double rainbow |
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Lakers_2000
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I looked at all my investments today. Including everything I was down about 2.8%, resulting in a paper loss of net worth of several thousand dollars. By comparison:
- For the year I'm still up about 1.1% in all accounts I control directly. My work retirement accout would still be up about .5% too.
- The last time I threw new money in the market was last summer. Both of those investments are up 12%, including today's fall. The rest of my investments all came at lower points in the market so they're all up more.
- On July 14, 2006 the Dow closed at 10,739, which means it's up 14% since that date.
- The Dow is up about 70% since its bottom in 2002. Time to panic! |
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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Don't look now, but the Shanghai market is getting pummeled for the second straight day, down almost 9 percent. |
| Quote: | Global Markets Fall Again on Fears About U.S. Economy
By KEITH BRADSHER and MARTIN FACKLER
HONG KONG, Feb. 28 — Stock markets fell sharply across most of Asia again today and continued to decline in Europe as investors worried about weakness in the American economy.
But share prices rebounded in Shanghai and Shenzhen, the mainland Chinese stock markets that had been the first to tumble in Tuesday’s global sell-off, when they each fell nearly 9 percent.
Both mainland Chinese markets rose nearly 4 percent today after state-controlled media reported that the government might allow greater foreign investment in Chinese stocks and would not impose capital gains taxes on stocks soon.
Stock markets elsewhere fared much worse today.
In Tokyo, the benchmark Nikkei 225 index fell 4.1 percent in early trading, before recovering a bit to end the day down 2.9 percent.
In Hong Kong, the Hang Seng index fell 2.5 percent. It, too, showed a slight recovery from heavier losses in morning trading.
Practically every other stock index in Asia outside of mainland China also fell.
Major European markets opened with swift, steep falls, but soon began to retrace some of losses, and by early afternoon had pared their losses to around 1 percent. Investors in Asia and Europe appeared to pay less attention to the Chinese markets than to the drop on Tuesday in American stock indices, and to a Commerce Department report on Tuesday that manufacturing in the United States is ailing more than had previously been realized.
Given the rebound today in mainland Chinese stocks, “this morning’s price reaction in Europe shows it is not just China,” Nigel Richardson, the Hong Kong-based chief investment officer in Asia for AXA Investment Managers, said.
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