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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90315
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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 Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| AirKobe8 wrote: | Well, the US did give him power...then took it away...
Anyway, the worst part of it is terrorists will prolly do something about it  |
His execution, perceived as at the hands of the US, and now on the eve of a Muslim festival, will take this secular thug and give him religeous and ideological significance to the extremist zealots. Another fine decision.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LakerFanAlways
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Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 21615
Location: LakerLand USA(Southern California)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | LakerFanAlways wrote: | GOOD RIDDANCE!! Hopefully he is burning in hell as we speak
That is exactly the way it should be in the United States..commit a crime, get tried, convicted..and executed in a matter of days..I guarantee that if that was the way the Justice System ran around here there wouldn't be anymore crime..instead of waiting 10-15 years for some POS to get executed..they get killed soon after conviction..that will scare all these crazy fools that dare commit a crime |
Good to see that your grasp of the criminal justice system is as firm as your command of the English language. What, btw, are rittens? Some diabolical cross between Rottweilers and kittens? And if so, why do you assume them to be good?  |
There..I fixed it..you feel better now..you know..you can tell me that I spelled something wrong without being NASTY about it |
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LuxuryBrown
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I guarantee that if that was the way the Justice System ran around here there wouldn't be anymore crime |
Dream on, bro.
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| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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LakerFanAlways
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Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 21615
Location: LakerLand USA(Southern California)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | Quote: | | I guarantee that if that was the way the Justice System ran around here there wouldn't be anymore crime |
Dream on, bro. |
Ok maybe crime would still exist but you don't think that executing these people soon after conviction wouldn't be a deterrent to some thinking about committing crimes? |
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LuxuryBrown
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 17429
Location: Mackadocious, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerFanAlways wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | Quote: | | I guarantee that if that was the way the Justice System ran around here there wouldn't be anymore crime |
Dream on, bro. |
Ok maybe crime would still exist but you don't think that executing these people soon after conviction wouldn't be a deterrent to some thinking about committing crimes? |
Nope. Because most people that do crimes that bring the death penalty aren't thinking "It'll be a long time before I'm executed so I'm gonna do this crime". And overall, most criminals don't consider the consequences.
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| Quote: | Smooth, but I move like an army / Bulletproof down in case brothas try to bomb me / Puttin' brothas to rest like Elliot Ness / Cuz I don't like stress
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LakerFanAlways
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Joined: 18 Dec 2002
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Location: LakerLand USA(Southern California)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| LuxuryBrown wrote: | | LakerFanAlways wrote: | | LuxuryBrown wrote: | | Quote: | | I guarantee that if that was the way the Justice System ran around here there wouldn't be anymore crime |
Dream on, bro. |
Ok maybe crime would still exist but you don't think that executing these people soon after conviction wouldn't be a deterrent to some thinking about committing crimes? |
Nope. Because most people that do crimes that bring the death penalty aren't thinking "It'll be a long time before I'm executed so I'm gonna do this crime". And overall, most criminals don't consider the consequences. |
Yeah that's true..most people that commit crimes don't have much of a conscience anyway..good point  |
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angel
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. LakeShow wrote: | | Why wasn't he executed in the US? |
Does it really matter to the US where he was executed? The US wanted to stop his actions, which were mostly committed in Iraq. The genocide against the Kurds was in Iraq in 1988. He killed thousand of other Iraqi citizens, so it was just, that the government in Iraq decide what to do with him.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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akk7
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Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3013
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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He was convicted for killing 148 Shi'ite villagers in the town of Dujail in 1982.
He killed all those innocent people, but I just have one question.
He was killed because he was convicted of killing all those innocent people. Then can't the same be said for George W. Bush? |
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Lakers_2000
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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It amazes me that in a thread discussing a man whose brutality led to the death of a million people, you have a number of people who poo-poo his atrocities and instead revert right back to their hate America/hate Bush routine. It's as if killing a million people isn't evil enough to deserve 1 whole thread.
Look, we got it. Saddam Hussein is a good guy. George Bush is the enemy. America is responsible for everything bad in the world. We get your point. Now if you don't mind, I'd like to get back to celebrating the death of the most evil tyrant since Pol Pot. |
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bballfan4life
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Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1307
Location: Sitting on top of the world... with my laptop!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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There's no doubt in my mind that sadam was an absolute tyrant and even though i dont agree with executions there must be some kinda justice for his victims, even if it's not all of them. However i fail to see how him dying will make that mess of a war they have over there any better. Is a dead saddam going to stop the iinsurgents from trying to turn the country into hell on earth and give the iraqi's the freedom and 'safety' that was a justification for this war after the whole WMD argument failed  and the most ironic thing about this is wasnt Sadam an ally of the americans before he attacked Kuwait? From what i understand they had no problem supplying him with arms etc when iran was public enemy #1...
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"this game doesnt build character; it reveals it so be strong in body clear in mind and lofty in your ideals."
RIP Jayden Odom
Last edited by bballfan4life on Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NoMoreGame7s
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 3818
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| akk7 wrote: | He was convicted for killing 148 Shi'ite villagers in the town of Dujail in 1982.
He killed all those innocent people, but I just have one question.
He was killed because he was convicted of killing all those innocent people. Then can't the same be said for George W. Bush? |
Wow. Is that a serious question?
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I got a fever....and the only prescription is more cowbell.
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TheRod
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 2019
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: |
You have the wrong targets and the wrong context. The French sold Saddam nuclear. The Germans and Russians sold weapons technology. There was a time when Saddam was an ally. He fought against Iran, who had taken Americans hostage. He was the enemy of our enemy. America sold him conventional weapons, before he went bad. Can America predict what he would later become? Saddam later became a monster, who was a threat to his people and to allies in the region. |
The United States supplied Saddam with chemical weapons.
| Quote: | | Most people in that region don't act like Americans, but it is not our job to immediately conform everyone to the way we think things should be. Change comes gradually. |
I totally agree.
| Quote: | | We address problems after they occur, not always seeing everything in advance. |
And this is the root of the problem.
| Quote: | | Human rights violations are not the American way. |
Ideologically? Yes. In actuality? No.
| Quote: | | We did not support human rights abuses by Saddam. |
We did not support it, but we sure as hell didn't do anything to stop it.
| Quote: | | He did that on his own. |
By using chemical weapons provided by the United States.
| Quote: | | He was made to pay for his actions. |
That he was, and deservedly so.
| Quote: | | Americans aren't the problem |
Americans are certainly part of the problem.
| Quote: | | but we are part of the solution |
Unfortunately; but it never should have come to it. |
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TheRod
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 2019
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| akk7 wrote: | He was convicted for killing 148 Shi'ite villagers in the town of Dujail in 1982.
He killed all those innocent people, but I just have one question.
He was killed because he was convicted of killing all those innocent people. Then can't the same be said for George W. Bush? |
The sad thing is that he was only tried for that single massacre, and not the systematic genocide he imposed on the Kurds. |
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bballfan4life
Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1307
Location: Sitting on top of the world... with my laptop!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| NoMoreGame7s wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | He was convicted for killing 148 Shi'ite villagers in the town of Dujail in 1982.
He killed all those innocent people, but I just have one question.
He was killed because he was convicted of killing all those innocent people. Then can't the same be said for George W. Bush? |
Wow. Is that a serious question? |
Guess so. Waits for thread to be locked 
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"this game doesnt build character; it reveals it so be strong in body clear in mind and lofty in your ideals."
RIP Jayden Odom |
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bballfan4life
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Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 1307
Location: Sitting on top of the world... with my laptop!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TheRod wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | He was convicted for killing 148 Shi'ite villagers in the town of Dujail in 1982.
He killed all those innocent people, but I just have one question.
He was killed because he was convicted of killing all those innocent people. Then can't the same be said for George W. Bush? |
The sad thing is that he was only tried for that single massacre, and not the systematic genocide he imposed on the Kurds. |
S true... Didnt really follow the trial that much but was 'genocide' ever mentioned?
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"this game doesnt build character; it reveals it so be strong in body clear in mind and lofty in your ideals."
RIP Jayden Odom |
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20,000
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 29999
Location: Likely nowhere near you
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_2000 wrote: | It amazes me that in a thread discussing a man whose brutality led to the death of a million people, you have a number of people who poo-poo his atrocities and instead revert right back to their hate America/hate Bush routine. It's as if killing a million people isn't evil enough to deserve 1 whole thread.
Look, we got it. Saddam Hussein is a good guy. George Bush is the enemy. America is responsible for everything bad in the world. We get your point. Now if you don't mind, I'd like to get back to celebrating the death of the most evil tyrant since Pol Pot. |
It's not a question about blaming the US or hating on Bush. It is a question of admitting that Saddam is not to blame alone. There were many factors that contributed to Saddam's reign, and the US should not be held blameless.
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Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.' |
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TheRod
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 2019
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bballfan4life wrote: | | TheRod wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | He was convicted for killing 148 Shi'ite villagers in the town of Dujail in 1982.
He killed all those innocent people, but I just have one question.
He was killed because he was convicted of killing all those innocent people. Then can't the same be said for George W. Bush? |
The sad thing is that he was only tried for that single massacre, and not the systematic genocide he imposed on the Kurds. |
S true... Didnt really follow the trial that much but was 'genocide' ever mentioned? |
I don't have an answer for that. To my knowledge, No. I was hoping that it would be somewhat documented for future generations, so that it wouldn't be forgotten in a similar way that the Armenian Genocide seems to have been lost. |
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angel
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | This thread remind me of a quote by Fyodor Dostoevsky who wrote, "A society should not be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens, but by how it treats its criminals." |
Governments will be judged by whether or not justice is done. A government is obligated to defend the rights of those least able to defend themselves. We should be concerned that innocent men, women and children of a Kurdish minority was subjected to poison gasses, which are even prohibited by conventions of War for combatants. Saddam Hussein's actions were judged to be crimes against humanity, not by an innocent in defense of himself, but by powerful man in charge of a brutal government. Each government is responsible for how it handles it's citizens. The new Iraqi government chose to put him on trial, and the result of that trial was a determination of capital punishment by humane methods. Although there are those who would argue against capital punishment, it is the method chosen by that government. Saddam cannot be freed by any new government to commit the same crimes again. He is deterred from threatening anyone in the future.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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TACH
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Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Great,.. he's gone.. the world is a better place... now can we get the people that were actually responsible for 9/11.... |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53964
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TACH wrote: | | Great,.. he's gone.. the world is a better place... |
is it?....
the video is up on break.com if anyone wishes to see it.
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TACH
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Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | TACH wrote: | | Great,.. he's gone.. the world is a better place... |
is it?....
the video is up on break.com if anyone wishes to see it. |
Not really,.. but it sounded good.... |
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Laker_Town
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Posts: 25604
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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US doesnt need t be involved. Its trying to stay "clean". Our troops already have enough to deal with. The last thing they need is more random attacks fueled by further hate for the us.
Thats why Old Bush hasnt really elaborated on the matter |
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Surfitall
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Joined: 12 Feb 2002
Posts: 3829
Location: South Orange County
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | This thread remind me of a quote by Fyodor Dostoevsky who wrote, "A society should not be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens, but by how it treats its criminals." |
Governments will be judged by whether or not justice is done. A government is obligated to defend the rights of those least able to defend themselves. We should be concerned that innocent men, women and children of a Kurdish minority was subjected to poison gasses, which are even prohibited by conventions of War for combatants. Saddam Hussein's actions were judged to be crimes against humanity, not by an innocent in defense of himself, but by powerful man in charge of a brutal government. Each government is responsible for how it handles it's citizens. The new Iraqi government chose to put him on trial, and the result of that trial was a determination of capital punishment by humane methods. Although there are those who would argue against capital punishment, it is the method chosen by that government. Saddam cannot be freed by any new government to commit the same crimes again. He is deterred from threatening anyone in the future. |
I think Dostoevsky was referring to criminals, not an innocent man trying to defend himself.
Also, hanging is humane? Maybe more humane than the way that Sadaam killed people, but to me it's not humane. If I wanted to be euthanized, I don't think I'd choose a hanging as the way to go out humane. Kevorkian kills people in a humane way in my estimation. (Is that an interesting oxymoron or what!) |
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angel
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| bballfan4life wrote: | | There's no doubt in my mind that sadam was an absolute tyrant and even though i dont agree with executions there must be some kinda justice for his victims, even if it's not all of them. However i fail to see how him dying will make that mess of a war they have over there any better. Is a dead saddam going to stop the iinsurgents from trying to turn the country into hell on earth and give the iraqi's the freedom and 'safety' that was a justification for this war after the whole WMD argument failed and the most ironic thing about this is wasnt Sadam an ally of the americans before he attacked Kuwait? From what i understand they had no problem supplying him with arms etc when iran was public enemy #1... |
The US wanted to stop Saddam's actions, such as the genocide against the Kurds in Iraq. If Saddam remained alive, he might have been freed by a new government if there was a takeover after the US withdraws. The situation is not entirely stable there. Although there is technically an International force, the US troops are the key. Saddam also killed hundreds of thousands of other Iraqi citizens. His execution prevents the chance of him re-surfacing to do the same things again. Saddam was no ordinary citizen. He wielded the power of a brutal government that terroized and raped it's own citizens. He presented much more danger than an ordinary private citizen. When it come down to his execution, it was the Iraqi government that acted.
Americans did not have full knowledge of Saddam's actions until after the fact. Some facts may not have been available until his trial this year. Although Iraq now has a form of democracy, it had not been an open society under Saddam. People lived under terror, fearing for their lives within a closed society. The International community did have test results from chain of custody samples to confirmed that chemical weapons had been used against the Kurds in 1988, but those results were not obtained until 1993. The US went into Iraq as part of an International force. The evidence of chemical weapons is evidence that he had WMD. He had used WMD against the Kurds. The lack of cooperation with International inspectors combined with their previous history of WMD use was enough to go into Iraq. The reasons for going in were more than WMD, but it was the reason used to go in. Genocide and human rights violations along with evidence of terrorist training bases and state sponsored terrorism were the real reasons for going into Iraq.
Saddam was the enemy of Iran, a U.S. enemy in the 1970s and beyond. Iraq fought a long war against Iran, a country that had held 52 American hostages in Tehran, Iran in the late 1970s. The U.S. did provide weapons to Iraq at the time prior to and during the Iran-Iraq War, which was during the early 1980's. Oil dollars from Iraq were also used by the Iraqi government under Saddam Hussein to purchase weapons from many sources, including the French, Russians and Germans. Iraq was an ally at the time. Rumors existed Saddam gassed the Kurds in 1988, but it wasn't proven at that time. The First Gulf War was 1990-1991. It wasn't until 1993, scientists were able to prove the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds. They had to get samples out of the country. Human rights violations were not the only concern, but they were one of the major concerns in going into Iraq. The U.S. did target Saddam in the Second Gulf War, because there was scientific proof of human rights violations after the First Gulf War.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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angel
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: |
I think Dostoevsky was referring to criminals, not an innocent man trying to defend himself.
Also, hanging is humane? Maybe more humane than the way that Sadaam killed people, but to me it's not humane. If I wanted to be euthanized, I don't think I'd choose a hanging as the way to go out humane. Kevorkian kills people in a humane way in my estimation. (Is that an interesting oxymoron or what!) |
I take him at face value as referring to criminals. However, he does not define truth. One of the main purposes of government is justice. In Iraq, citizens of that country are subject to their government. They operate as part of an International community. It is acceptible within the International community to allow capital punishment. Some things, such as genocide are not acceptible. You may not agree with it. If you don't, I suggest you don't move there. There are different kind of gallows. The one Saddam was hanged on is specifically designed to snap his spine almost instantly. Death is practically instant. You don't really choke on that type of gallows.
Saddam had another type of gallows, which did allow choking. Saddam liked to torture men by first torturing their wives in front of them. He tortured and killed children in front of their parents. Sometimes, the women would be raped, before they were murdered. International law does not accept torture or rape, but Saddam ignored International law. Saddam regarded saying anything against the head of state a crime. You could be hauled off in the middle of the night and thrown into his prison for torture or death.
| Quote: | | Last year, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights found that Iraq continues to commit extremely grave violations of human rights, and that the regime's repression is all pervasive. Tens of thousands of political opponents and ordinary citizens have been subjected to arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, summary execution, and torture by beating and burning, electric shock, starvation, mutilation, and rape. Wives are tortured in front of their husbands, children in the presence of their parents -- and all of these horrors concealed from the world by the apparatus of a totalitarian state. |
September 12, 2002 Remarks to the UN General Assembly
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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