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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | Is anybody else shocked that Durant averages 2 more rebounds per game than Oden? |
No.
Durant doesn't get 2x and 3x teamed in the paint like Oden does.
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Freakout
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| Was Oden a good student in high school? I ask because I just cannot help but get the feeling that he's not that bright when I watch him play or speak. I use to think he was just very laid back attitude wise but I'm starting to wonder if he is just slow to recognize certain things on the floor. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Was Oden a good student in high school? |
Higher GPA than Kobe Bryant. 3.5ish
GPA is no reflector of how smart a player is in regards to hoop IQ.
Basketball plays are all about spatial relationships.
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magic_bryant
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Oden's problem right now is the same as Wilt's in his lone year of college basketball - a man among boys. Teams are literally scared of him.
Teams are throwing 2-3 bodies at him at all times. Which would be fine, if the other 4 players on the court took advantage of that, but they don't and I think alot of that falls at the coach's feet.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: |
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I don't get why people need to disect every part of Oden's game. He is only 19. Jeez .. what ever happenned to letting them grow? I wouldn't make a decisive evaluation on Greg until he came into the pro's and had played 2-3 years.
He has great clay. He is only 19. There is nowhere for him to go but up. I do think people need to stop with the Russell/Wilt/Ewing hype. If he's that great, he'll show it eventually. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't get why people need to disect every part of Oden's game. He is only 19. Jeez .. what ever happenned to letting them grow? I wouldn't make a decisive evaluation on Greg until he came into the pro's and had played 2-3 years. |
Because NBA scouts start looking at 14-17.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | I don't get why people need to disect every part of Oden's game. He is only 19. Jeez .. what ever happenned to letting them grow? I wouldn't make a decisive evaluation on Greg until he came into the pro's and had played 2-3 years. |
Because NBA scouts start looking at 14-17. |
And how many times have they been proven wrong?
They are wrong just about as many times as they are right.
You know why, Mike?
Because noone and I mean noone can predict the learning curve and how a player can develop. It is the hardest thing to do.
What Oden maybe weak in now ..could become a big strength of his by 23.
That is why I don't see why these big judgements on come on such young players. I'm not saying don't evaluate him but if he has 1-2 bad offensive games .. he is not a good offensive player in the NBA. 1-2 good defensive games .. he is Bill Russell.
Oden is only 19 .. he can improve in almost any aspect of his game. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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And how many times have they been proven wrong?
They are wrong just about as many times as they are right.
You know why, Mike?
Because noone and I mean noone can predict the learning curve and how a player can develop. It is the hardest thing to do.
What Oden maybe weak in now ..could become a big strength of his by 23.
That is why I don't see why these big judgements on come on such young players. I'm not saying don't evaluate him but if he has 1-2 bad offensive games .. he is not a good offensive player in the NBA. 1-2 good defensive games .. he is Bill Russell.
Oden is only 19 .. he can improve in almost any aspect of his game. |
Better than looking like an idiot not even knowing about the player in the first place.
It's precisely how players like Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Rashard Lewis, Jermaine O'Neal, and others aren't even picked #1 in the draft.
Why does it matter to you so much over a player you don't care too much about?
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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^
You missed my point. I am not saying don't evaluate young players, just that at his age .. alot of the things that he's doing now .. he won't be in a 1-2 years.
So to generalize his game longterm now would be a mistake. Like many people are saying he doesn't have a good offensive game and will never be a dominant scorer. You can't really know if that's accurate at such a young age. Ewing didn't have that much of a post game at that age either. I read that the other day in an article. The same thing about the flip .. like comparing him to Wilt/Russell. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | alot of the things that he's doing now .. he won't be in a 1-2 years.
So to generalize his game longterm now would be a mistake. Like many people are saying he doesn't have a good offensive game and will never be a dominant scorer. You can't really know if that's accurate at such a young age. Ewing didn't have that much of a post game at that age either. I read that the other day in an article. The same thing about the flip .. like comparing him to Wilt/Russell. |
Did you see Ewing at Georgetown? He didn't have a complicated post game, he had a basic one, and he dominated in the paint because of it.
To generalize longterm now would be a mistake? How else are scouts and GMs supposed to do their jobs? It's their job to evaluate the long term ability of a player based on what the player has shown recently AND through player development.
I was skeptical of Bynum because he showed little of Both prior to entering the league. Bynum is the 1 in 100 HS player exception, especially considering how many HS players before him have shown more skill or athleticism by position, and couldn't hang in the NBA.
Bynum could've just as easily been another DeSagana Diop. The Laker team and its fans are incredibly fortunate to have a player learn so quickly and have a player work hard.
There are days when players were their butt off in the offseason/preseason, and its still won't show during gametime.
See Sasha.
Just as Eddie Griffin had a dominant post game at the HS level and didn't really show too much while at Seton Hall, players like Emeka Okafor are completely raw at UConn, only to develop the most in his junior year, to be a legit 18-11-2 player, hanging well against the elite.
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magic_bryant
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't mean to compare Oden to Wilt, wolf. I was just explaining how the opposition is over-playing him, and it's on his teammates and coach to make sure and take advantage of that.
I do think Oden has defensive upside of a Bill Russell, but he's not there, yet.
Just explaining Oden's low rebounding numbers.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | I didn't mean to compare Oden to Wilt, wolf. I was just explaining how the opposition is over-playing him, and it's on his teammates and coach to make sure and take advantage of that.
I do think Oden has defensive upside of a Bill Russell, but he's not there, yet.
Just explaining Oden's low rebounding numbers. |
Ok fair enough.
I'm just saying he is 19 .. loads of potential. Why define his career or forecast it as such a young age?
Mike - I'm sorry if my take on the projections offends you. Just that I think projecting the length of a guys career completely is never guaranteed. Mitch himself has said many times that players can be bench players or All-Stars depending on their own work ethic. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Mike - I'm sorry if my take on the projections offends you. Just that I think projecting the length of a guys career completely is never guaranteed. Mitch himself has said many times that players can be bench players or All-Stars depending on their own work ethic. |
It's offensive in the sense that, your opinion basically makes a GMs and scouts job practically negligible, when that's the farthest from the truth.
Scouting talent isn't a complete science. But there are a lot of things about a players IQ, character, skill level, and athletic development that can at least determine a high probability of a certain being player being a solid player, or an NBA All-Star.
How old is Jordan Farmar? Why do you think he doesn't have a projected upside of a potential Hall of Famer like Bynum? Does he not have great NCAA experience and a high load of skills? Good athleticism?
And yet just comparing Farmar and Bynum by age, there's a huge difference in projected upside. There are reasons for that.
About Mitch Kupchak's comment. Sorry, Mark Madsen can work his ass off all he wants. He won't become a legit starter.
Better question is, if all it takes is a high level of commitment to become an elite level player, why doesn't everyone in the league do it? Or at least try?
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously there are some players that will not be able to reach a certain level.
I've never bought the Bynum is HOF stuff .. there is NOWAY you can tell that right now. That is just pure hype and honestly I don't like that they are saying that kind of stuff about Drew. I just wanted people to be open to Drew and give him a chance to develop. The thing I hate about Drew threads are either ppl are calling him a future HOF or a scrub. I mean there is somewhere in between he can wind up or who knows maybe better. As Mitch said - it's up to him if he's going to be a 20/10 guy or a 12/8 guy.
My point is with Oden .. there seems to be no limitation. Nothing in his game that can be looked upon as a big drawback. So how can one possible tell if he's going to become a 15 ppg guy or a 25 ppg/Ewing type even though right now his offensive game loosk a bit weak?
You see .. that's what I don't understand. How can people really know if he's Ewing or Russell or whoever at this age? How can they know if he's going to be an average offensive player (like some say or have said)?
I think at 19 .. Sky is the limit for Oden. However he has clearly got a ways to go - so comparisons to HOF centers is a bit premature. It is also premature IMO to scoff at his offensive game and say he's destined to be an average offensive player. |
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersMD wrote: | | Is anybody else shocked that Durant averages 2 more rebounds per game than Oden? |
No.
Durant doesn't get 2x and 3x teamed in the paint like Oden does. |
Sure Oden gets doubled on the offensive end, and he and Durant average the same number of offensive boards per game.
But that has nothing to do with the defensive end, where Oden still averages 2 fewer defensive boards per game than Durant. |
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The Buss
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersMD wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersMD wrote: | | Is anybody else shocked that Durant averages 2 more rebounds per game than Oden? |
No.
Durant doesn't get 2x and 3x teamed in the paint like Oden does. |
Sure Oden gets doubled on the offensive end, and he and Durant average the same number of offensive boards per game.
But that has nothing to do with the defensive end, where Oden still averages 2 fewer defensive boards per game than Durant. |
Oden's in the same position that Bynum is in where he is constantly having to help as the shotblocker because the guards get beat. Don't know if that has too much of an effect on the rebounding but I'm pretty sure it costs Oden at least a few rebounds a game.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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But that has nothing to do with the defensive end, where Oden still averages 2 fewer defensive boards per game than Durant. |
You mean the part where Oden is averaging 3.5+blocks per game providing weakside help while Hunter covers his back on the backboard?
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Oh there's no question he's a great shotblocker. But in every other category, he has not lived up to the hype IMO.
It's funny how defensive people get when anything remotely critical of Oden is said.
So far in this thread, Oden is playing "one-handed", saddled with foul trouble, for a coach who doesn't utilize him, with players who don't pass him the ball, and who regularly get beat off the dribble defensively.
It's amazing he hasn't transferred yet. |
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C-BUS LAKERFAN
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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^^^^^^^^^
Which is probably why he is 1 and done. I pray that he stays 1 extra year. The 2 biggest gunners will be off the team. I wanted to kick my TV in watching the 2nd half of the PSU game. 1st half was a perfect balance of inside outside. 2nd half was the 2 dumb A** seniors shooting 25 footers instead of feeding Oden. Matta is WAY to loyal to these clowns. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: |
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It's funny how defensive people get when anything remotely critical of Oden is said.
So far in this thread, Oden is playing "one-handed", saddled with foul trouble, for a coach who doesn't utilize him, with players who don't pass him the ball, and who regularly get beat off the dribble defensively.
It's amazing he hasn't transferred yet. |
Now that's an exaggeration. Lots of bigmen don't get utilized to their full potential their frosh year, especially when there are other freshman that are elite talents but not natural playmakers.
There's a huge contrast when it comes to Tywon Lawson and Mike Conley Jr compared to their respective bigmen of Hansbrough and Wright vs. Oden.
Playing 1-handed? True.
Foul trouble? That's on Oden. Bynum is going through the same thing. So is Turiaf.
Coach only for the past month has been utilizing him.
Conley is improving getting the ball to the post.
But you cannot deny the facts of the situations of the season. Think Oden is complaning?
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LakersMD
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| C-BUS LAKERFAN wrote: | ^^^^^^^^^
Which is probably why he is 1 and done. I pray that he stays 1 extra year. The 2 biggest gunners will be off the team. I wanted to kick my TV in watching the 2nd half of the PSU game. 1st half was a perfect balance of inside outside. 2nd half was the 2 dumb A** seniors shooting 25 footers instead of feeding Oden. Matta is WAY to loyal to these clowns. |
I think he's one and done because of the wrist injury. He's already gone from sure-fire #1 to being overshadowed by Durant - in the media's eyes at least - so I doubt he risks another injury. |
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angel
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Florida lost, but I can't see them dropping too far.
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Phil
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angel
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: |
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I had also heard that Durant is staying in school another year.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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^He should leave. He's ready. More ready than Oden right now.
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