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PopcornMachine Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001 Posts: 10566
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: Lineups After 11 Games |
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Some lineup analysis after the first 11 games.
Here are the +/- totals for all 5 man lineups that have played 5 minutes or more:
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Min +/-
157.44 20 Andrew Bynum_Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Smush Parker_
30.96 3 Kobe Bryant_Kwame Brown_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Smush Parker_
24.47 19 Andrew Bynum_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Maurice Evans_Smush Parker_
20.02 0 Brian Cook_Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Smush Parker_
17.79 1 Jordan Farmar_Lamar Odom_Maurice Evans_Ronny Turiaf_Vladimir Radmanovic_
16.41 9 Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Ronny Turiaf_Smush Parker_
14.03 6 Brian Cook_Jordan Farmar_Ronny Turiaf_Shammond Williams_Vladimir Radmanovic_
11.86 9 Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Maurice Evans_Ronny Turiaf_Smush Parker_
9.41 3 Jordan Farmar_Kwame Brown_Lamar Odom_Maurice Evans_Vladimir Radmanovic_
9.08 17 Brian Cook_Jordan Farmar_Lamar Odom_Sasha Vujacic_Vladimir Radmanovic_
8.88 -12 Andrew Bynum_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Sasha Vujacic_Smush Parker_
7.88 5 Andrew Bynum_Jordan Farmar_Lamar Odom_Maurice Evans_Vladimir Radmanovic_
7.85 -19 Brian Cook_Jordan Farmar_Kobe Bryant_Maurice Evans_Vladimir Radmanovic_
7.44 -4 Andrew Bynum_Jordan Farmar_Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_
7.31 -1 Kobe Bryant_Kwame Brown_Lamar Odom_Maurice Evans_Smush Parker_
5.77 2 Brian Cook_Jordan Farmar_Lamar Odom_Maurice Evans_Vladimir Radmanovic_
5.65 -3 Jordan Farmar_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Sasha Vujacic_Vladimir Radmanovic_
5.60 10 Brian Cook_Jordan Farmar_Kobe Bryant_Sasha Vujacic_Vladimir Radmanovic_
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[correction -- was missing 1st game -- DOH!]
Last edited by PopcornMachine on Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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golakersgo121 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 11717 Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Wow!
Our starters are +20
Thanks, great stat... |
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PopcornMachine Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001 Posts: 10566
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Here are my team stats so far: http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/teamstats.cgi?team=LAL
And here are +/- for pairs starters:
Code: |
Min +/-
187.07 13 Andrew Bynum_Kobe Bryant
230.10 9 Andrew Bynum_Lamar Odom *
216.72 17 Andrew Bynum_Luke Walton *
211.03 23 Andrew Bynum_Smush Parker *
294.16 14 Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom
275.51 23 Kobe Bryant_Luke Walton
254.06 19 Kobe Bryan_Smush Parker
313.35 24 Lamar Odom_Luke Walton *
307.89 29 Lamar Odom_Smush Parker *
291.23 21 Luke Walton_Smush Parker *
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[correction -- was missing 1st game -- * have been changed]
Last edited by PopcornMachine on Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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golakersgo121 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 11717 Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: |
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PopcornMachine wrote: |
Here are my team stats so far: http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/teamstats.cgi?team=LAL
And here are +/- for pairs starters:
Code: |
Min +/-
187.07 13 Andrew Bynum_Kobe Bryant
206.97 9 Andrew Bynum_Lamar Odom
194.95 21 Andrew Bynum_Luke Walton
187.18 24 Andrew Bynum_Smush Parker
294.16 14 Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom
275.51 23 Kobe Bryant_Luke Walton
254.06 19 Kobe Bryan_Smush Parker
287.68 22 Lamar Odom_Luke Walton
275.72 34 Lamar Odom_Smush Parker
264.89 25 Luke Walton_Smush Parker
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Is your font too small or BCook really has the lowest +/- rating
Thanks again. As I am usually saying, stats do not tell the whole story. But the way you put them together (efficiency and +/-), I really can't say that they contradict what I see on the floor.
Interestingly enough, Lamar has much better rating than Kobe does. In my opinion, it is a reflection of Kobe early being a mere mortal and Lamar having better overall season after 11 games.
Thanks again |
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PopcornMachine Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001 Posts: 10566
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: |
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You are see right about Cook. A -14 in 98.5 minutes.
Seems he has been shooting good from inside the arc, but all-in-all not a good start to the season for Brian.
But Lamar is off to a great start despite what you read around here. |
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Wolverine Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2004 Posts: 7846 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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PopcornMachine wrote: |
Min +/-
275.72 34 Lamar Odom Smush Parker
264.89 25 Luke Walton Smush Parker
187.18 24 Andrew Bynum Smush Parker
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Wow. The top 3 duos have one player in common. And not quite the player one would expect. |
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golakersgo121 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 11717 Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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PopcornMachine wrote: | You are see right about Cook. A -14 in 98.5 minutes.
Seems he has been shooting good from inside the arc, but all-in-all not a good start to the season for Brian.
But Lamar is off to a great start despite what you read around here. |
BCook (IMHO) is a "victim" of Phil trying to utilize him as a backup Center early on the season. He would have been better (not good) has Phil utilized him in his old role. But Radman is much better defensively (surely one of the "good surprises" for me) and thus gets that role. I can picture a second unit of Brown, Radman, Cook, Farmar and Mo being more successful overall (if Ronny is still hurting). But when Ronny is back and either Lamar or Kobe playing with this second unit, he'll be relegated to riding the pine... as future $3MM per year player should on the strong team
I need Ronny ASAP. Especially for Friday. He is the one that might be able to contain Boozer better than anybody else. |
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golakersgo121 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 11717 Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Wolverine wrote: | PopcornMachine wrote: |
Min +/-
275.72 34 Lamar Odom Smush Parker
264.89 25 Luke Walton Smush Parker
187.18 24 Andrew Bynum Smush Parker
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Wow. The top 3 duos have one player in common. And not quite the player one would expect. |
If you think about it, it makes sense: Smush plays ONLY and exclusively with the starters as he is not good enough to play with the second unit.
Now, look at the overall +/- for starting five... |
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PopcornMachine Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2001 Posts: 10566
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Wolverine wrote: | PopcornMachine wrote: |
Min +/-
275.72 34 Lamar Odom Smush Parker
264.89 25 Luke Walton Smush Parker
187.18 24 Andrew Bynum Smush Parker
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Wow. The top 3 duos have one player in common. And not quite the player one would expect. |
Sorry, but was missing game one at first. Here are the corrected top pairs:
Code: |
Min +/-
307.89 29 Lamar Odom_Smush Parker *
313.35 24 Lamar Odom_Luke Walton *
211.03 23 Andrew Bynum_Smush Parker *
275.51 23 Kobe Bryant_Luke Walton
291.23 21 Luke Walton_Smush Parker *
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More evenly distributed, so a lot of Smush and Luke.
We were looking at the last 10 games. |
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LakersPimp Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 2226
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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golakersgo121 wrote: | Wolverine wrote: | PopcornMachine wrote: |
Min +/-
275.72 34 Lamar Odom Smush Parker
264.89 25 Luke Walton Smush Parker
187.18 24 Andrew Bynum Smush Parker
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Wow. The top 3 duos have one player in common. And not quite the player one would expect. |
If you think about it, it makes sense: Smush plays ONLY and exclusively with the starters as he is not good enough to play with the second unit.
Now, look at the overall +/- for starting five... | hater :roll: |
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golakersgo121 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 11717 Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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PopcornMachine wrote: | Wolverine wrote: | PopcornMachine wrote: |
Min +/-
275.72 34 Lamar Odom Smush Parker
264.89 25 Luke Walton Smush Parker
187.18 24 Andrew Bynum Smush Parker
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Wow. The top 3 duos have one player in common. And not quite the player one would expect. |
Sorry, but was missing game one at first. Here are the corrected top pairs:
Code: |
Min +/-
307.89 29 Lamar Odom_Smush Parker *
313.35 24 Lamar Odom_Luke Walton *
211.03 23 Andrew Bynum_Smush Parker *
275.51 23 Kobe Bryant_Luke Walton
291.23 21 Luke Walton_Smush Parker *
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More evenly distributed, so a lot of Smush and Luke.
We were looking at the last 10 games. |
Proves my "theory" above even more as both Luke and Smush (and Drew as well) do not play with the second unit. BTW, it is not a bashing of our second unit at all as a lot of teams have fallen behind to the Lakers early and kept their starters on the floor against our second unit in order to get back in the game. Yet, if you look at +/- for a second unit players - it is not too bad either (less Cook who is really a 3-rd unit player for now)... |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40208 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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golakersgo121 wrote: | BCook (IMHO) is a "victim" of Phil trying to utilize him as a backup Center early on the season. He would have been better (not good) has Phil utilized him in his old role. But Radman is much better defensively (surely one of the "good surprises" for me) and thus gets that role. I can picture a second unit of Brown, Radman, Cook, Farmar and Mo being more successful overall (if Ronny is still hurting). But when Ronny is back and either Lamar or Kobe playing with this second unit, he'll be relegated to riding the pine... as future $3MM per year player should on the strong team
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Looking at this, the biggest problem lineup was a:
Code: | 7.85 -19 Brian Cook_Jordan Farmar_Kobe Bryant_Maurice Evans_Vladimir Radmanovic_ |
Cook still has + numbers in other lineups. Usually when LO is on the floor with him in some fashion, probably because LO does a better job on controlling the defensive glass.
Since Kobe's game was still struggling to get on track, we may see some different numbers when we get another snapshot of these lineups down the line. But I do think we are inviting trouble against some teams when Vlad/Cook are our only big men.
(Thanks, Pop. ) |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47594
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Great numbers Popcorn, thanks for compiling that.
Very interesting, I think +/- is a great statistic, but it can be misleading as we all know for a number of reasons just like any other stat.
But as other pointed out, the Cook/Radmo combo would seem to be defensively iffy if not paired with another big (Bynum, Kwame, Turiaf) based on those figures. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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jbjb Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2001 Posts: 5401
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Not a big sample for the second line up, but look what just the replacement of just one starter (Smush with Jordan) does to the +/-. Who would have guessed
157.44 20 Andrew Bynum_Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_Smush Parker_
7.44 -4 Andrew Bynum_Jordan Farmar_Kobe Bryant_Lamar Odom_Luke Walton_ |
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Colby Briant Star Player
Joined: 14 Aug 2002 Posts: 2940 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:27 am Post subject: |
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wow! good stuff popcornmachine. thanks! |
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