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Addicus
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | psydesho wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | | jbjb wrote: |
<snipped>
Jump on Lamar if you want, but it's going to take a few more games for him to get into good enough shape to maintain his aggressiveness game to game -- especially on the second night of back to backs. Add into that the emphasis on getting Kobe re-integrated into the team, and the tough defensive assignment on Randolph (that would have gone to Kwame), and you have a big load to shoulder after a traumatic summer away from the game. Remember Lamar's performance post ASG through the playoffs, and realize he's going to playing above that level before too long. It may take a few more weeks. |
A couple of issues:
1) Though you're quick to point to Lamar's post All Star performances of last season, you seem to dismiss the fact that the type of game we saw from him last night is typical of his career.
Why are you so quick to reach for the "conditioning card" as opposed to just saying that Lamar played like Lamar last night?
2) It's true that Odom had to pull the back-to-back roadie last night. But I gotta tell ya, offensively-speaking, he could not have been matched up against a weaker defensive opponent in Zach Randolph (and whatever that other CBA player was).
3) You brought up the issue of his "traumatic summer." Do you plan on bringing that up every time Odom plays a bad game? |
I think it came down to us playing the mismatches offensively and with Bynum in foul trouble and struggling those were Kobe vs whoever and Luke on their 3's.
I would have liked to see Lamar attack Randolph in the post more, but Zack is the type of guy that gives him problems down there because he is wide and strong. He and Brand make it hard on Lamar. He hasn't seemed to look to into the last 2 games mentally. That's sad because we really need him to play with passion to dominate the way we can. |
OK, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
I think that Randolph is just the type of defender that LO should carve up like a ButterBall turkey. As opposed to KG or Chris Wilcox, Randolph is fat, slow, non-athletic, and unmotivated (on the defensive end). Odom should have been taking him to the hole every single time.
Yet, he's floating around the 3-pt line. |
2 years ago I would agree with you, but Randolph didn't look slow to me last night. He was blowing by everyone we put on him including Turiaf who moves his feet well.
I do agree Lamar should have his way with Zack on the offensive end, but he would have to really go into the post more and fight and develop his right hand more.
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And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| psydesho wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | | psydesho wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | | jbjb wrote: |
<snipped>
Jump on Lamar if you want, but it's going to take a few more games for him to get into good enough shape to maintain his aggressiveness game to game -- especially on the second night of back to backs. Add into that the emphasis on getting Kobe re-integrated into the team, and the tough defensive assignment on Randolph (that would have gone to Kwame), and you have a big load to shoulder after a traumatic summer away from the game. Remember Lamar's performance post ASG through the playoffs, and realize he's going to playing above that level before too long. It may take a few more weeks. |
A couple of issues:
1) Though you're quick to point to Lamar's post All Star performances of last season, you seem to dismiss the fact that the type of game we saw from him last night is typical of his career.
Why are you so quick to reach for the "conditioning card" as opposed to just saying that Lamar played like Lamar last night?
2) It's true that Odom had to pull the back-to-back roadie last night. But I gotta tell ya, offensively-speaking, he could not have been matched up against a weaker defensive opponent in Zach Randolph (and whatever that other CBA player was).
3) You brought up the issue of his "traumatic summer." Do you plan on bringing that up every time Odom plays a bad game? |
I think it came down to us playing the mismatches offensively and with Bynum in foul trouble and struggling those were Kobe vs whoever and Luke on their 3's.
I would have liked to see Lamar attack Randolph in the post more, but Zack is the type of guy that gives him problems down there because he is wide and strong. He and Brand make it hard on Lamar. He hasn't seemed to look to into the last 2 games mentally. That's sad because we really need him to play with passion to dominate the way we can. |
OK, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
I think that Randolph is just the type of defender that LO should carve up like a ButterBall turkey. As opposed to KG or Chris Wilcox, Randolph is fat, slow, non-athletic, and unmotivated (on the defensive end). Odom should have been taking him to the hole every single time.
Yet, he's floating around the 3-pt line. |
2 years ago I would agree with you, but Randolph didn't look slow to me last night. He was blowing by everyone we put on him including Turiaf who moves his feet well.
I do agree Lamar should have his way with Zack on the offensive end, but he would have to really go into the post more and fight and develop his right hand more. |
It's interesting that you mentioned that. I've actually noticed Odom going to his right more lately in the paint. No doubt as a counter to defenders shading him to his strong side. But, instead of shooting the ball with his right hand, Lamar is stopping (letting the defender go by him), and going up with his left. Though he's been able to draw a couple of fouls while doing this, I wonder how long it will take before defenders adjust to that as well.
As for "fighting" in the post...
This is what struck me as odd about Odom's comment in the paper about being a "competitor." He says that he's a competitor, but he didn't seem to want to gash a willing patsy? |
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thebooonus
Sixth Man
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 93
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| BigEvil wrote: | I will state what I did in another post.
I think Phil was trying to teach the team a lesson. You CAN'T just have Kobe and Luke be your only scorers for an entire quarter. That's completely unacceptible.
While I feel he kept them out too long, I don't knock Phil for not starting them in the 4th. The other guys had to be challenged to get it together. As it was, there was no way L.A. was gonna' win without some more contributions from other players. |
My sentiments exactly. I think this was a case of Phil willing to lose the battle in order to win the war. If the players can't learn to play without having to depend on Kobe as much as they do, there isn't much hope for having a successful team. |
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Worthy42
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 19952
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | psydesho wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | | psydesho wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | | jbjb wrote: |
<snipped>
Jump on Lamar if you want, but it's going to take a few more games for him to get into good enough shape to maintain his aggressiveness game to game -- especially on the second night of back to backs. Add into that the emphasis on getting Kobe re-integrated into the team, and the tough defensive assignment on Randolph (that would have gone to Kwame), and you have a big load to shoulder after a traumatic summer away from the game. Remember Lamar's performance post ASG through the playoffs, and realize he's going to playing above that level before too long. It may take a few more weeks. |
A couple of issues:
1) Though you're quick to point to Lamar's post All Star performances of last season, you seem to dismiss the fact that the type of game we saw from him last night is typical of his career.
Why are you so quick to reach for the "conditioning card" as opposed to just saying that Lamar played like Lamar last night?
2) It's true that Odom had to pull the back-to-back roadie last night. But I gotta tell ya, offensively-speaking, he could not have been matched up against a weaker defensive opponent in Zach Randolph (and whatever that other CBA player was).
3) You brought up the issue of his "traumatic summer." Do you plan on bringing that up every time Odom plays a bad game? |
I think it came down to us playing the mismatches offensively and with Bynum in foul trouble and struggling those were Kobe vs whoever and Luke on their 3's.
I would have liked to see Lamar attack Randolph in the post more, but Zack is the type of guy that gives him problems down there because he is wide and strong. He and Brand make it hard on Lamar. He hasn't seemed to look to into the last 2 games mentally. That's sad because we really need him to play with passion to dominate the way we can. |
OK, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
I think that Randolph is just the type of defender that LO should carve up like a ButterBall turkey. As opposed to KG or Chris Wilcox, Randolph is fat, slow, non-athletic, and unmotivated (on the defensive end). Odom should have been taking him to the hole every single time.
Yet, he's floating around the 3-pt line. |
2 years ago I would agree with you, but Randolph didn't look slow to me last night. He was blowing by everyone we put on him including Turiaf who moves his feet well.
I do agree Lamar should have his way with Zack on the offensive end, but he would have to really go into the post more and fight and develop his right hand more. |
It's interesting that you mentioned that. I've actually noticed Odom going to his right more lately in the paint. No doubt as a counter to defenders shading him to his strong side. But, instead of shooting the ball with his right hand, Lamar is stopping (letting the defender go by him), and going up with his left. Though he's been able to draw a couple of fouls while doing this, I wonder how long it will take before defenders adjust to that as well.
As for "fighting" in the post...
This is what struck me as odd about Odom's comment in the paper about being a "competitor." He says that he's a competitor, but he didn't seem to want to gash a willing patsy? |
You also realize that Randolph made a b*tch out of Elton Brand two nights before right? He actually put up even better numbers on Brand while shutting Brand down. Look at Brand's effectiveness in that game. Granted the Clips as a team did a whole better job then our Lakers, but don't underrate Randolph here.
vs. Lamar (11pts 5 rebs 3 ast 5/9 FGs)
36pts 10rebs 3ast 12/23 FGs 11/12 FT's
vs Brand (8pts 4 rebs 4 ast 2/8 FGs)
35pts 13rebs 1ast 11/17 FGs 13/15 FT's
Just to put it in perspective. |
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Sasha is shooting 18% this season.
Phil certainly knows better than I, but Vujacic playing 10 minutes while Mo Evans plays only 11 will not get it done.
I have noticed a pattern. Vujacic plays, Lakers lose. Vujacic sits, Lakers win. It isn't rocket science, play the best players. Less is more with Sasha and no need to go nuts with minutes for Cookie either if he misses his first two shots.
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Love, Laker Lanny |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40198
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| CorkyTomjanovich wrote: | I know exactly what Phil is doing, and I don't really like it. He is using regular season games to figure out his rotation.
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What's wrong with that? He's got to see who can hang and who can't, which lineups work and which don't. |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40198
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| And 1 wrote: | | psydesho wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | | jbjb wrote: |
<snipped>
Jump on Lamar if you want, but it's going to take a few more games for him to get into good enough shape to maintain his aggressiveness game to game -- especially on the second night of back to backs. Add into that the emphasis on getting Kobe re-integrated into the team, and the tough defensive assignment on Randolph (that would have gone to Kwame), and you have a big load to shoulder after a traumatic summer away from the game. Remember Lamar's performance post ASG through the playoffs, and realize he's going to playing above that level before too long. It may take a few more weeks. |
A couple of issues:
1) Though you're quick to point to Lamar's post All Star performances of last season, you seem to dismiss the fact that the type of game we saw from him last night is typical of his career.
Why are you so quick to reach for the "conditioning card" as opposed to just saying that Lamar played like Lamar last night?
2) It's true that Odom had to pull the back-to-back roadie last night. But I gotta tell ya, offensively-speaking, he could not have been matched up against a weaker defensive opponent in Zach Randolph (and whatever that other CBA player was).
3) You brought up the issue of his "traumatic summer." Do you plan on bringing that up every time Odom plays a bad game? |
I think it came down to us playing the mismatches offensively and with Bynum in foul trouble and struggling those were Kobe vs whoever and Luke on their 3's.
I would have liked to see Lamar attack Randolph in the post more, but Zack is the type of guy that gives him problems down there because he is wide and strong. He and Brand make it hard on Lamar. He hasn't seemed to look to into the last 2 games mentally. That's sad because we really need him to play with passion to dominate the way we can. |
OK, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
I think that Randolph is just the type of defender that LO should carve up like a ButterBall turkey. As opposed to KG or Chris Wilcox, Randolph is fat, slow, non-athletic, and unmotivated (on the defensive end). Odom should have been taking him to the hole every single time.
Yet, he's floating around the 3-pt line. |
Randolph spent a lot of time covering Luke, too. And, yes, they should have attacked it. He was in foul trouble to start the second half. Best D is putting him on the bench and watching. |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | CorkyTomjanovich wrote: | | I know exactly what Phil is doing, and I don't really like it. He is using regular season games to figure out his rotation. |
What's wrong with that? He's got to see who can hang and who can't, which lineups work and which don't. |
What's really good - and interesting - is that he (IMO) is also letting the team have the opportunity to figure things out (just like the Kobe/Shaq days) like how to win on away games. In the Portland game, the lineup that Phil left in there for an extended amount of time didn't work. Of course, nobody was hitting their shots and it wasn't Portland's defensive pressure. Even when Kobe said, ride him to victory - they couldn't do it (learning process).
Evans, Farmar and Vlad will make their mark once they know each other better. With Phil trying didn't combinations, they are not sure of each others tendencies at this time. |
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LakersSpirit
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:02 am Post subject: |
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UGLY GAME... What can be said??... It would take an expert, to analyze this game. I have to hope, that the back-to-back aspect, had something to do with it.
That old roller coaster has officially started!!... I'm already getting whiplash... Just when I thought things were getting back together.
Personally, I still think Mo Evans has to get back to where he was, in the first two games. Kobe should not force the issue, and try to dominate. We have to make use of all we have.
We should learn how to use our PG's. I don't agree with those that say we don't have any good PG's. Sasha hardly made an appearance. I don't want to say that "Phil is slipping"..... I'd rather think that Phil is still experimenting, and there is some kind of valid reason, for the lineups he puts on the floor.
Phil still trying to squeeze what he can, from a radish... Like, say, Rad(for radish??), and... Shammond(like the whale??...Send him back to Seaworld).
Luke could really be a breakout star, but he just shy's away from success.. It's almost like a mental thing... He does well, then, it's as if he's afraid of being thought selfish(that hated word)... Luke starts to pass up his shots, and the whole offense loses its flow, and rhythm... Must I point to others who have also passed up their shots, and overpassed??
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"Teamwork is a nebulous thing. It is as ephemeral as love, disappearing at the latest insult.".... Phil Jackson |
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