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TooCool
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:36 am    Post subject:

Nice post again DB.

With lots of unexperienced players to start the 2nd quarter... if the other team goes on a 10-0 run or whatever... CALL the freaking timeout. Instead we waited until they went even further with the lead. Horrid.

Oh well, can't win em all. But to lose to the Sonics... eh... then again. We've always lost to horrible teams when we shouldn't. This is no different.
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limchrc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:13 am    Post subject:

Hope our team continues to learn and gets better each game.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:36 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB! Good stuff actually glad I missed the game though
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject:

JD wrote:
Klone_dd wrote:
We really got worked tonight, but the bright side is the play of the 2 "yutes": Bynum & Farmar.


Eh, the two what? Uh, uh, what was that word?


Yutes, Vinnie. Yutes!

Hopefully there weren't foe hoes waitin for them after the game. Don't want them yutes gettin in trouble.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:31 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
The Vlad/Cook lineup without Kobe or LO to start the second quarter tonight was a 11-0 run tonight for Seattle. They seized control of the game there and didn't look back, as you mention (as they did, too). But the Vlad/Cook bigman lineup in second quarter of the last game was killed 10-0. As soon as I saw that lineup to start the second quarter tonight I braced myself to be shelled. Sure enough

DB when I saw that run happen and Phil sit on his chair all smug, I had that feeling this would be one of the games that Phil was willing to lose in the name of improving the team.

What improves? Who the hell knows. Maybe he didn't like how they beat Seattle and wanted them to lose a game to actually get the point of how to execute the offense. Losses certainly make the ears bigger - that's Phil's own saying.

He gets paid 10 million to worry about that and we as fans get fits thanks to it


Well Phil did make this comment after the Friday game. Maybe your theory about Phil willing to lose the game holds water.

Quote:
"I don't think you get as many (teaching) points across when they're winning," Jackson said. "Winning covers a multitude of errors. ... We know there's a lot of improvement necessary."

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Wino
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:20 am    Post subject:

LOdom07 wrote:
JD wrote:
On a more serious note... something that really ticked me off about Kobe's game... was the 0-4 from 3 land. I kept hoping, that he wouldn't try one... and then he did. Amazingly... he shot it exactly how I thought he would... CLANG off the back of the rim. Too strong. Compensating for his lack of leg strength.

There isn't any reason for him to be shooting any 3s right now. He can shoot them in practice to get the feel back and adjust to the day to day change in leg strength. But, he isn't going to make them, right now... so its a wasted shot opportunity.


Mr. Bryant plays by his own rules...no such thing as a wasted shot opportunity for Kobe. I mean, his teammates who were responsible for winning without him, isn't capable of hitting shots so Kobe may as well take it...right?


You are ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject:

4 complaints for this game:

1. Why did they not play Bynum more? Clearly he was a huge advantage for us on the block on offense. Defensively he would more productive than the line up with...

2. Brian Cook at C. Never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever should we see this. For most of the game, he was useless on offense and a free ticket to the paint on defense. We must keep Turiaf or Bynum in the key at all times because...

3. The guards need to keep the opposition out of the paint. They were getting in there at will and simply more needs to be done to stop it. And on offense...

4. There should never be times without a point guard on the floor. There were times when there was a lineup of Mo Kobe Luke and the bigs. Clearly they were pouncing on the opportunity to pressure us and the best way to control the ball would be to do so with a pg.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:38 am    Post subject:

By the way, don't consider the above my rant and pissing and moaning. I'm very happen with the Lakers play so far this season, and didn't expect and 82-0 season. I was realistic and expected 81-1, now if we lose another game... boy then it might be time to clean house.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject:

The frontline of Vlad/Cook reared its ugly head again, and I was pretty upset that Phil went with that lineup again. I'm not going to say that it cost us the game because our starter stunk it up in the 3rd as well, but it was a definite momentum killer. With that being said, our mini-run in the 4th came with Vlad and Cook manning the 4 and 5, but I still couldn't believe that Phil went with that frontline again when it failed so miserably during Friday's game and the 1st half of last night's game.

I know that Phil is experimenting with lineups right now, but I think the Lakers would be better served to have Kobe or Lamar as well as Bynum or Turiaf in the game at all times. When Kwame comes back, then you can throw him into the mix along with Bynum and Turiaf.
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:16 am    Post subject:

WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT LINEUP THAT PHIL STARTED THE 2ND QTR WITH?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject:

Laker7 wrote:
JD wrote:
Klone_dd wrote:
We really got worked tonight, but the bright side is the play of the 2 "yutes": Bynum & Farmar.


Eh, the two what? Uh, uh, what was that word?


Yutes, Vinnie. Yutes!

Hopefully there weren't foe hoes waitin for them after the game. Don't want them yutes gettin in trouble.

oh great, now I'm going to have my cousin vinny running through my head all day.

thanks for the post DB.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject:

1. Either Lamar or Kobe need to be on the floor at all times.

2. When Bynum is out of the game, Lamar needs to be in the post!!!

3. Until he's back to his old self, Kobe needs to play like he did the first 10 mins. of the game. He doesn't have the moves right now to try and dribble through 4 defenders. I'm not sure why he stopped feeding Bynum, maybe he was having Shaq flashbacks...

4. We need to keep feeding the post. Bynum was 5-5. They had no answer for him in the first half, yet he hardly got the ball in the second half. Inexcusable.

5. We are overpassing. We are going from not passing enough to passing too much. We need to find a happy medium and guys need to stop being afraid to be the one to take the shot. It's like they're back to playing hot potato out there with the basketball. I mean how many shot clock violations/blown fast break opportunities were there last night? Not to mention forcing bad passes into traffic. Sheesh!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject:

My biggest gripe besides the defense was what appeared to be the need to run everything on offense through Kobe. That was what killed us during the first half of last season. Very few passes to Bynum, Odom, or Luke in the post. Everything seemed force feed to Kobe and I don't like it. Lamar was passing up shots but he was only getting the ball out around the 3 point line. Thats not exactly the best place to be recieving the ball. We made it easy for Seattle to defend us.
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Rick12322
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
So much for Kobe supposedly holding on to the ball too long and stagnating the offense

Triangle offense.

I'm not going to make this all about Kobe - it isn't. The team lost primarily because of the TO's and lack of D. However since Kobe has come back the Triangle hasn't run as well. Now I may well be bashed for that but it's what I have seen.

I understand why Tex listed Wade as the best SG and Kobe as the best SF. Makes alot of sense watching how they ran the Triangle without Kobe and now with him.

Bryant just needs to get back to 100% and play SF to maxamize the Triangle.


It looks to me like the Lakers cannot play against a zone. The turnovers resulting from this led to 18 sonic points. That's the number one cause of the bad D right there.
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lamarvelousodom
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:06 am    Post subject:

lamar , kobe, ronny, and bynum should never all be on the bench at the same time, for offensive and defensive purposes...craziness
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CorkyTomjanovich
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:08 am    Post subject:

Why is Vlad even playing? I know he does some things that cook doesn’t. (drive and kick) But otherwise, they are very similar players, and Cook really isn’t getting the looks he should in my opinion. Down big last night, why doesn’t Phil set up some pick and pops with Cook? He should be getting more looks in my opinion.


Second, Phil should get a lot of the blame, his rotations were just terrible. No excuses. Bynum and Turiaf provide size and rebounding, Turiaf protects the basket. And Farmar appears to be the only perimeter defender on the team right now who can stay with his man.
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CorkyTomjanovich
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject:

Odom was deferring to Kobe again last night. He started off great, then just disappeared. Phil needs to set up more things for him. Odom could have carried the team last night.
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tlim
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject:

Defense was near non-existant is what I mostly blame. Even when we did not turn it over, (which seemed like every other possession), the Sonics for the most part, either a) made their shot, b) got the rebound, or c) got fouled to go to the line. The number of stops seemed very small, and that's what I hope they change, soon.

Turnovers can easily be corrected, as the Lakers learn to play better together. The defense though, needs to be fixed, ASAP, or it could become the norm, and that would really scare me.
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Addicus
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject:

Laker7 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
The Vlad/Cook lineup without Kobe or LO to start the second quarter tonight was a 11-0 run tonight for Seattle. They seized control of the game there and didn't look back, as you mention (as they did, too). But the Vlad/Cook bigman lineup in second quarter of the last game was killed 10-0. As soon as I saw that lineup to start the second quarter tonight I braced myself to be shelled. Sure enough

DB when I saw that run happen and Phil sit on his chair all smug, I had that feeling this would be one of the games that Phil was willing to lose in the name of improving the team.

What improves? Who the hell knows. Maybe he didn't like how they beat Seattle and wanted them to lose a game to actually get the point of how to execute the offense. Losses certainly make the ears bigger - that's Phil's own saying.

He gets paid 10 million to worry about that and we as fans get fits thanks to it


Well Phil did make this comment after the Friday game. Maybe your theory about Phil willing to lose the game holds water.

Quote:
"I don't think you get as many (teaching) points across when they're winning," Jackson said. "Winning covers a multitude of errors. ... We know there's a lot of improvement necessary."


Which is the point I was going to make Laker7. Phil is building the team for the playoffs which means he has to break the bad habits we have.

It does seem everyone is worried about deferring to Kobe and wondering how they should play with him. I'd like to see some quicker ball movement from Kobe and a lot more cuts / posting up from our other players.

What happened to playing to our strength and pounding the ball inside? Whenever we stop doing that the turnovers just rack up and the opposition enjoys a track meet.

Thanks for the recap DB. Great and on point.
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Rick12322
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject:

psydesho wrote:

What happened to playing to our strength and pounding the ball inside? Whenever we stop doing that the turnovers just rack up and the opposition enjoys a track meet.

Thanks for the recap DB. Great and on point.


I thought the zone was plugging up the middle making the entry pass very difficult. Bynum was being doubled with guys sagging in front of him. At least that's what I remember seeing, I haven't gone back and checked it.
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LakersMD
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject:

Laker7 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
The Vlad/Cook lineup without Kobe or LO to start the second quarter tonight was a 11-0 run tonight for Seattle. They seized control of the game there and didn't look back, as you mention (as they did, too). But the Vlad/Cook bigman lineup in second quarter of the last game was killed 10-0. As soon as I saw that lineup to start the second quarter tonight I braced myself to be shelled. Sure enough

DB when I saw that run happen and Phil sit on his chair all smug, I had that feeling this would be one of the games that Phil was willing to lose in the name of improving the team.

What improves? Who the hell knows. Maybe he didn't like how they beat Seattle and wanted them to lose a game to actually get the point of how to execute the offense. Losses certainly make the ears bigger - that's Phil's own saying.

He gets paid 10 million to worry about that and we as fans get fits thanks to it


Well Phil did make this comment after the Friday game. Maybe your theory about Phil willing to lose the game holds water.

Quote:
"I don't think you get as many (teaching) points across when they're winning," Jackson said. "Winning covers a multitude of errors. ... We know there's a lot of improvement necessary."


I was about to post the same thing.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject:

Laker7 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
The Vlad/Cook lineup without Kobe or LO to start the second quarter tonight was a 11-0 run tonight for Seattle. They seized control of the game there and didn't look back, as you mention (as they did, too). But the Vlad/Cook bigman lineup in second quarter of the last game was killed 10-0. As soon as I saw that lineup to start the second quarter tonight I braced myself to be shelled. Sure enough

DB when I saw that run happen and Phil sit on his chair all smug, I had that feeling this would be one of the games that Phil was willing to lose in the name of improving the team.

What improves? Who the hell knows. Maybe he didn't like how they beat Seattle and wanted them to lose a game to actually get the point of how to execute the offense. Losses certainly make the ears bigger - that's Phil's own saying.

He gets paid 10 million to worry about that and we as fans get fits thanks to it


Well Phil did make this comment after the Friday game. Maybe your theory about Phil willing to lose the game holds water.

Quote:
"I don't think you get as many (teaching) points across when they're winning," Jackson said. "Winning covers a multitude of errors. ... We know there's a lot of improvement necessary."

Thank you.

I actually thought the Lakers were a bit too relaxed and smug on Friday night. They didn't play the right way in 2 of the qtrs that night too. However because they had such a big lead early and the Sonics were on the road they never fell behind in those two bad qtrs the way they did on Sunday at Seattle.

Jackson always knows how many games he's costing his team. He's just too damn smart for some of the things he does out there. I ask people that doubt him - why doesn't he do this (bleep) in the playoffs? Why is that these issues of testing lineups that make you go aren't occuring late in the season?

Because by that time Phil has his team peaking and knows every player on his roster inside-out.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject:

Quote:

It looks to me like the Lakers cannot play against a zone.



Quote:


I thought the zone was plugging up the middle making the entry pass very difficult. Bynum was being doubled with guys sagging in front of him. At least that's what I remember seeing, I haven't gone back and checked it.


Blame that on POOR triangle spacing and ill-advised decision-making within the offense.

How do you beat zones in the triangle?

1. Get to your spots to set it up initially.
2. If a passing lane to the low block is denied, 1 man is open. Ball reverse it to that player.
3. Utilize the dive cut to draw defensive attention into the paint off-the-ball to open up lanes of dribble penetration.
4. Utilize the high post as a triple threat.
5. Flat out execute the offense. Spacing. Decision-making. Ball-reversal. Off-the-ball player movement. Don't sit there and dribble so that the defense has 1 clear easy focus.

Breaking down zones isn't about shooting 3pointers. It's absolutely about interior play from 15' and in. The trick is to draw defensive attention from 2 opposing players, within scoring position (subject to interpretation) to free up a teammate.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject:

CorkyTomjanovich wrote:
Why is Vlad even playing? I know he does some things that cook doesn’t. (drive and kick) But otherwise, they are very similar players, and Cook really isn’t getting the looks he should in my opinion. Down big last night, why doesn’t Phil set up some pick and pops with Cook? He should be getting more looks in my opinion.

They did run pick and pops, did a much better job at this than the prior game...the Sonics just sent a third defender, which meant we had to make an additional pass to the open man.

I don't think Vlad and Cook are similar players, either. Vlad's a triple threat, Cook is not.
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D Nice
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject:

Vlad also plays defense and hustles. Cook....
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