CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS -- 10/19 -- Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS -- 10/19 -- Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

DNP INJURY... Wow. Eight players from the Lakers got that distinction and three from the Clippers in this ugly game.

LO wanted the team to win ugly this season. To do that you have to hustle, play tough D, make your free throws and play smart down the stretch. The Lakers failed in a couple of those areas, missing 15 freethrows on the night and executing poorly in the offense in the last two minutes.

The injuries are stretching the team's depth to its limits. You can see some third-string type of moments out there, and more than a few miscues with players unfamiliar with each other. Still, some of the younger players are stepping up.

Despite Farmar not getting a shot off in the last possession, he played a very good game. I think most people watching probably felt more confidence in Farmar holding the ball in the last few minutes than anyone else out there. He keyed a fourth quarter comeback where he scored on several possessions. In the final 18 seconds, Rambis spread the floor for Farmar to work of the high screen. He got a switch, hesitated rather than shooting a three, attacked the lane and lost the ball when Thomas grabbed his arm with no call. Game over.

Andrew Bynum gave some serviceable minutes as the starting center and had a tough defensive assignment in Elton Brand. He had some choppy moments out there and he couldn't hook up with teammates on a number of sloppy interior feeds that came his way. With Kwame and Mihm out for some time, we'll need our young bigmen to rise to the challenge.



Odom -- -- A bit of a poor game from Lamar. His execution down the stretch left much to be desired. He did have a few good defensive moments as he ran at the C spot late in the game. He finished with 9 points on 2-8 shooting, had 6 boards, 3 assists, but 7 turnovers. Early on, he attacked off the high pinch post with Bynum down the middle of the lane and earned FTs, he made both. He missed an open three. He threw a bad lob to Smush that turned into a turnover when Smush couldn't pull it down. He missed a tech FT. He attacked on the baseline and drew FTs, making one. He rattled in a 19-footer from the sideline on a two-for-one sequence. He attacked the paint and drew FTs, making one. He trailed the break, took the pass down the lane and scored a layup with his right and came down awkwardly on his ankle for a slight twist. He limped it off quickly. He missed a wide open three. Great D, switching over on Maggette as he attacked the baseline and he forced a turnover. Ugly flash to the wing for a turnaround brick with 2:35 left in the game (poor shot selection at any time of the game). Another bad possession by Lamar, losing the ball in the lane with under 2 minutes. Great defensive rebound, tapping it away from the smaller player to secure possession with 48 seconds left. Unfortunately, he got blocked on a drive attempt a few seconds later. Not the kind of offensive execution we needed from him late in the game.

Smush -- -- A little better game from Smush, even though he shot a poor 3-11 for 13 points (7-10 from the line). I think he misses Kobe drawing the attention of the defense. He has had few easy looks at open jumpers in the past couple of games. Smush also had 6 boards, 4 assists and 3 turnovers in 28 minutes. Sick pass by Smush early on, looking to Lamar on his right, he turned to him, then went behind his back to Evans the other direction for a dunk on the break (he totally froze the D and opened up the lane for Evans). He got blocked on a slow-moving drive. He drove into traffic and was stripped. Good finish in transition, using his body well to score against the trailing D. He had a pass picked off when he tried to break the trap. He drew FTs, busting out on the break. He set up in the post and flipped in a bank over his man easily (more please). He picked up one of those new techs, taking a couple fast steps down the court after the whistle (wow...that is cheap). He drew FTs in transition after grabbing a missed dunk by Turiaf, he made both. He swished a stepback jumper over Thomas at the end of the half. He ballwatched and gave up an easy oop to Livingston. He had an interior feed to Bynum picked off, but the ball was fumbled away by the Clippers as they went up court, Smush grabbed it and hit Bynum for the uncontested dunk. He attacked Livingston on the baseline and drew FTs, making one. He drew a couple more FTs attacking the lane, he made one. He drew more FTs from the midpost, he sank both. He missed back-to-back jumpers trying to beat the shotclock, the second one he was barely able to get off. He missed a fade at the end of the third quarter.

Evans -- -- Solid, all-around game by our utility player. The small ball play that allows him to work at SF at times or get out in transition is probably a little more suited to him. He scored 10 points on 4-8 shooting in 31 minutes. He only had 2 boards in that time, but he also had 3 steals with some nice activity. Good D to steal a pass on one end, then he dunked off the nice behind-the-back feed from Smush on the break. He swished a pull-up jumper from the wing when the defender sagged off. Nice double down on the post for a help D strip. He missed a turnaround in the post. Scary foul when Evans was soaring in for a dunk on the break and Brand contested hard, sending Evans flying for a flagrant foul, he made one FT. He hit a short, pull-up jumper along the baseline in transition. Great, quick first step against Maggette to draw his fourth foul of the first half, he made one. He pushed out the break and found LO trailing for a score. Quick bust out with Farmar for the throwdown on the break. Out of a timeout, we went to Evans in the post, he rushed his turnaround and missed. He'll have some opportunities in this offense to post up weaker players. Hopefully, he can get a little more comfortable down there.

Bynum -- -- Your Lakers high scorer of the night, Andrew Bynum. He put in 15 points on 5-7 shooting and a very nice 5-6 from the line in 29 minutes. He also had 4 boards (need to get a few more), 4 turnovers and 4 fouls in that time. He had a tough match up, going against Brand all night. He looked a little bit winded at times, didn't quite patrol the lane the kind of way you want to see, but he still held down the fort. He needs to get a little bit stronger and continue to fight for low positios (especially setting up weak to strong). You can see when he battles for good position, his teammates look for him. He airballed a turnaround over Brand and wanted the foul. He couldn't hold on to a tough interior feed from Green that Maggette got a hand on, otherwise he would have had a dunk. He found Green cutting out of the Tri from a weakside screen for a layup. He tried to double clutch an And-1 jumper attempt, he missed, but drew FTs, he made one. He winged a shot in the lane and the Lakers pushed out the break. He drew FTs on the perimeter against Brand, he made both. He posted up, kicked it back out and reposted, then went to his go-to move, spinning from the right block to the middle of the lane for the two-foot jumper. He rushed a hook off the right block and airballed. Smush picked up a loose ball and fed Bynum under the hoop for an uncontested dunk. Brand tried to hold Bynum's jersey on an offensive board for a foul, Bynum sank both FTs. He lost Brand badly in the post, turning to his left away from the double team, upfaking to get Brand in the air, then stepping through for the layup as Brand fell to the floor (very nice sequence). Bad idea to try to strip Mobley on D instead of contesting up high on the dribble penetration. Great tip in, getting to the front of the rim and tipping back in a Sasha missed three (there are a lot of points there for Bynum if he can get a little stronger, keep moving his feet and working for that kind of position). He grabbed a Pinnock feed in the lane, took a power dribble and dunked with both hands. The Lakers then went to Lamar at C over Bynum and Turiaf down the stretch.

Green -- -- Hard for Green to put up a worse game than the last one. The Lakers gave him the start to give him an opportunity to redeem himself. As I mentioned in the last report, he has come out swinging in the past when his job was on the line. He had some nice effort out there tonight, and generally masked his weak outside shooting. He finished with 6 points on 1-4 shooting, but had 3 steals in his 23 minutes. Nice weakside cut out of the Tri, he took the pass from Bynum in a little traffic and scored the layup. He missed an easy one, busting out in transition, but he drew FTs, he made one. Quick first step on Mobley to draw a foul on the perimeter, he made one FT. Good steal in the back court, but he missed the finish at the rim. Excellent D again to strip LO's man who was attacking, then he fed Smush for the breakaway score. He attacked Singleton one on one, spun and drew the foul, he made both FTs. He got blocked after Farmar found him under the hoop. He disrupted a Clipper pinch post for a turnover. He got caught in the air against Maggette for FTs. He had all 6 points and 3 steals in the first half. He bricked a three he didn't have to take. Nice trap with Odom and it forced a turnover. Good hustle, boxing out Mobley under the hoop and drawing a foul. He had another nice strip on help D in the lane to cause a turnover.

Walton -- -- We really missed some opportunities down the stretch by not getting the ball more into Luke's hands in position where he can do some damage. The offense that got the team back in the game essentially went to hell when he and Farmar weren't getting touches in the closing minutes. Luke finished with 6 points on just 1-2 shooting (he looked much more hesitant to shoot tonight). He had 2 boards, 2 assists, 2 steals and 1 block in his 16 minutes. He got tapped on a corner three attempt. He swatted Brand from behind on help D. He stripped Brand again the next time down. He drew FTs when Farmar found him under the hoop on dribble penetration, he made one. Luke swiped a pass and was off to the races where he fed Farmar for an uncontested layup. He posted up Mobley, spun quickly to seal and made the layup to tie the game with 4:28 left. Next time down, Luke hit Farmar with a quick bounce pass from a sideline post position for a layup. He iso'd on Brand, drawing a perimeter foul as soon as he made his move, he made both FTs. He overpassed trying to thread the needle under the hoop instead of taking the wide open three and it resulted in a turnover with 2 minutes left. Overall, good game, not quite the same aggressiveness from him as we've seen in others.

Turiaf -- -- Easily Ronny's weakest game of the bunch. He got into some foul trouble trying to handle Brand. He played just 12 minutes, shot 3-6 for 6 points, pulled down 4 boards, tallied 1 assist and 1 block. But he also had 4 fouls in that time. He came in for Bynum with 5 minutes left in the first quarter. He fouled Brand on a post move on his first defensive stand. He picked up his second foul on Brand's next post attempt a few seconds later. He swatted Brand from behind after missing a steal attempt. He pumpfaked Brand, spun and banked over him from the right block. He rolled in a running hook in the middle of the lane. He scored a short jumphook like a hot potato after he was in the lane a couple seconds before catching the pass. He got tapped on the alley-oop from Smush on the break. He had 6 points and 4 rebounds in the first half. He came in for Bynum and was quickly whistled for a foul when Brand posted him up. He picked up another foul against Brand and had to sit.

Sasha -- -- Sasha seems to like that 10-point number he's been getting in spurts off the bench. When he's got that shot dropping, he's certainly a spark off the bench. He did a better job at looking for the midrange shot in this game. He came in for Mo Evans after 5 minutes in the first and went to work. He drew FTs from the sideline when he attacked off the dribble, he made one FT. After the FT, his man fumbled the ball off his foot in the backcourt for a turnover, Sasha then swished a baseline jumper off the inbounds pass. Next time down, he pulled up off a screen and hit the wing jumper from about 17 feet. He swished another jumper on the next possession, this time standing on the three line. He missed a heat-check jumper with a couple of players on him. A whistle blew on some action off the TV screen, and away from the ball, Sasha was on the floor drawing one of his pesky foul. He swished a tech FT. He buried another catch-and-shoot jumper standing on the three line at the wing. Mobley was killing whomever the Lakers put on him in the post early on, Sasha took a few lumps at the end of the half trying to guard him. Sasha had 10 points on 4-6 shooting at the half. Sasha picked up another of those cheap technical fouls trying to point out to the ref that he was being held in the post. Great strip on the sideline against Mobley setting up the screen-roll, he grabbed the ball on the floor and called timeout. HE also had 3 boards. 3 turnovers, 1 assist and 4 fouls in his 22 minutes at the SG spot.

Farmar -- -- A couple days ago, Rambis made a comment about rookies making mistakes that can make the coach look bad. Farmar may take a little heat for the last play, but clearly he helped bring this team back to life when he came into the game in the fourth quarter. It's actually the ultimate compliment that he was given the ball to bring home the win. Farmar's also the type of player who learns from his mistakes. In this case: Got to get a shot off...which he was about to do when Thomas grabbed his arm and Farmar lost the ball. Prior to that, Farmar had 14 points on 5-6 shooting, 3 boards, 1 assist, 2 steals and 3 fouls in 20 minutes. He scored most of his points in the fourth. One of the things Farmar is great about offensively is changing gears. This is particularly important in the Tri with all of the cuts off the ball you can make. He'll also put on the extra gear in transition, which he did to draw contact on Livingston and FTs early on, he made one of two. He missed a three after getting his man into the air (he probably could have drawn FTs if he let the player hit him). He deflected a pass after the miss to force a turnover. He pulled up off the pinch post and hit an 18-footer. Good find of Green under the hoop, but Green got blocked. He switched on Maggette and knocked the ball out of bounds in the corner. Great pumpfake on the perimeter, then he attacked the lane and fed Luke for FTs. He snagged a loose ball caused by Bynum, pushed it out and fed Evans for the throwdown. He bolted down court when Luke came up with a steal and was rewarded for a layup. He popped out behind a screen and swished a three from the sideline. Next time down, he spotted a gap, attacked into the paint and flipped up a pretty teardrop over the help defender (Farmar is money on that shot). Livingston got into the lane against Farmar and was able to set up Brand for FTs. Farmar fed Walton in the post, showed that change of gears with a burst of speed on a cut and Walton found him for a layup. Farmar got bailed out when he got stuck on a screen and Livingston missed an uncontested dunk. Jordan called his own number, attacked the lane with speed, got around Mobley in the air and drew a blocking foul, he made one FT. He got caught on the back screen again trying to cover Livingston and we gave up penetration and a score. Livingston drew a T, wanting a foul on LO on the play and Farmar sank the tech. He got caught for a hold when Livingston went to post him up. Farmar got whistled for a looseball foul diving to the floor. Then, he didn't touch the ball for a couple minutes until Rambis set up the spread play for Farmar at the end of the game. Hopefully, he gets another chance to redeem himself at the end of a game before the preseason ends.

Pinnock -- -- Yeesh. If he could hit a couple shots, he would have put together a decent game. He really mixes it up defensively, but 0-7 for 1 points in 14 minutes ain't pretty. The 6 boards, 2 assists and 1 steal in that time...very productive. He fouled Mobley in the post on his first defensive stand. He bricked a jumper, but pulled down his own board with one hand and reset the offense. He missed at rim in transition traffic. He attacked again in transition, spun, drew contact and FTs, he made one FT. He stepped out of bounds, pushing off to attack the baseline. Nice defensive board, he pushed it out and fed Smush in the lane for FTs. He gave Bynum a rare clean interior feed and Bynum dunked. Excellent help D strip, he took the ball up court and tried to finger roll around the defender, but missed. He bricked with a minute left when the offense stalled and he had to force up a tough jumper.

Rambis -- -- Rambis had several possessions squandered late in the game when the offense failed to execute. He should have called a timeout sooner, but let them flounder. Finally, with 18.7 seconds left, trailing by 1 the Lakers took a timeout. The offense had stalled out on several previous possessions. Out of the timeout, they spread the floor for Farmar. He waited, attacked, passed up on a chance for a three, attacked and lost the ball as the clock expired. It looked like Thomas got away with grabbing Farmar's arm... Early in the game, Rambis brought in Farmar and Walton together off the bench with just under 4 minutes left in the first. The bench lineup with those two, Sasha and Turiaf helped push out to a 28-22 first quarter lead... The Lakers couldn't hit their FTs, missing 9 of their first 21 in the first half. Had the Lakers hit their FTs (19-30 in that half) they would have had a nicely sized lead, instead of the 53-51 advantage... Rambis didn't sub in Farmar with Walton as he did in the first half. The Lakers looked sluggish near the end of the third quarter and the Clips went on a 10-0 run to take the lead. The Lakers scored just 14 points in the third quarter. They trailed by 7 points 67-74. Farmar was put in to start the fourth and the Lakers caught up with the Clippers when Farmar hit a three and flipped in a floater midway through the quarter... The team shot a miserable 1-11 from three (the Clips 2-11). Both teams also struggled controlling the ball, turning it over 20+ times each.... How soon will Kobe be back? "It's just getting over that last hurdle," he said in the Daily News. "That last little bit takes the longest sometimes. It's just making sure we stick to the script and get that done."
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Tanlentueux
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:55 am    Post subject:

thanks DB. I like the idea of being the first one to say great post.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:07 am    Post subject:

thanks as always.
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Sage_10
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:20 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB, good stuff. I take it the Lakers lost.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject:

Thank, DB.

That last play was a disaster, and regardless of the foul (Farmar won't get that call for 8 years, if ever) he's got to go earlier on the shot. The key to that sequence was that after Lamar set that quote/unquote pick, both defenders stayed with Farmar causing him to set step back and hesitate for just a second, and throwing the whole timing of the play off.

Regardless, I agree the game was to be won or lost on the few possessions prior to that one when inexplicably Farmar wasn't initiating the offense. He came in and dictated that mini-comeback, and then when they pulled close, suddenly I was watching Lamar turn the ball over twice and taking bad shots.

It reminded me of late game situations last year: Isn't this the value of having a legit point on the floor under such scenarios? Just like Tuesday against the Kings when Sasha was inserted in the 4th and took over the point duties from Farmar for a couple of minutes while Farmar was still on the floor. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one person who should be initiating the offense late in games other than Farmar: Kobe. Maybe Walton for the odd possession or two, but his strong suit is receiving the first pass and working from there. All told, it was an entertaining fourth but Rambis needs to make sure his floor general has the ball in his hands for those critical crunch minutes.

And why suddenly can't Pinnock convert a dunk? The guy looked like Harold Freaking Miner in the SPL (and don't give me any of that "it's the SPL" jazz, this kid is quite capable of finishing semi-contested dunks)?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:04 am    Post subject:

Evans looked a lot better last night but he's clearly, like you said, more of a 3. I still believe he's going to come in handy when we play teams that play with 3 guard sets.

Sasha continued the good shooting but he seemed to get a little to confident at times. Once he had Ronny posted up on the same side of the floor and instead of passing he kept trying to dribble to get his own shot off. He over dribbled and ended up having to shoot a tough shot.

Andrew looked a lot better compared to Tuesday. Even though his shot wasn't falling I liked that he started to take his time and work in the post. It also helped that the team seemed to put more effort into running the triangle last night. His weak points was definately his rebounding and biting a little too much on pump fakes last night. Defensively he did a pretty good job on Elton. With Andrew in the game Brand seemed to settle for the outside jumper. The moment Turiaf subbed in for Andrew, Brand went back inside.

Jordan continues to impress me. A lot less playmaking last night but I believe that was by design. Sasha brought the ball up a lot in the 4th leaving Jordan to play off the ball quite a bit. If Jordan gets any floor time with Kobe during the the 4th quarter of games it would most likely be a similiar situation. He still looked so much more seasoned with his cutting and reading the defense. I also LOVE seeing him shoot his floater. As for the last play of the game, I thought they took a little too much time setting that play up.

Smush still pissed me off. He is just so lazy defensively. It is like watching Chucky Atkins.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject:

With 8 injured players, why were the Lakers even in this game? The Clips should have blown them out. Did the Clips just not play hard because it is preseason?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject:

Dennis_D wrote:
With 8 injured players, why were the Lakers even in this game? The Clips should have blown them out. Did the Clips just not play hard because it is preseason?


No, they put the effort in, they just couldn't pull away from the Lakers. They were missing Kaman and the alien, but their main guys (including Brand) logged big minutes. It reminded me very much of the Phoenix game. The depleted Laker staff remained surprisingly competitive. Despite missing way too many free throws (making only as many as the Clips despite 11 extra shots), despite the botched last play, they still had a chance to win this one.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:58 am    Post subject:

RYZ wrote:
Thank, DB.

That last play was a disaster, and regardless of the foul (Farmar won't get that call for 8 years, if ever) he's got to go earlier on the shot. The key to that sequence was that after Lamar set that quote/unquote pick, both defenders stayed with Farmar causing him to set step back and hesitate for just a second, and throwing the whole timing of the play off.

Regardless, I agree the game was to be won or lost on the few possessions prior to that one when inexplicably Farmar wasn't initiating the offense. He came in and dictated that mini-comeback, and then when they pulled close, suddenly I was watching Lamar turn the ball over twice and taking bad shots.

It reminded me of late game situations last year: Isn't this the value of having a legit point on the floor under such scenarios? Just like Tuesday against the Kings when Sasha was inserted in the 4th and took over the point duties from Farmar for a couple of minutes while Farmar was still on the floor. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one person who should be initiating the offense late in games other than Farmar: Kobe. Maybe Walton for the odd possession or two, but his strong suit is receiving the first pass and working from there. All told, it was an entertaining fourth but Rambis needs to make sure his floor general has the ball in his hands for those critical crunch minutes.

And why suddenly can't Pinnock convert a dunk? The guy looked like Harold Freaking Miner in the SPL (and don't give me any of that "it's the SPL" jazz, this kid is quite capable of finishing semi-contested dunks)?


^^even though you're 100% correct with your assessment of giving the ball to the floor general aka real PG. rambis nor phil has ever had a REAL PG. question is this, do they understand the ball needs to be in his hands, triangle or no triangle?

and thats another problem i saw with that lineup of one to many guys trying to run Point forward/Point Shooting Guard/Point whatever. and farmar looking like, so what am I supposed to do now? When he figured out he basically changed positions if someone else is going to set it up. then he swished that 3 ball with out thinking, (easy catch and shoot). now in say 2 years time, same lineup. these guys will be passing and moving like clock work. because you wont know who's playing what position. it will look beautiful. but until then... GIVE FARMAR THE BALL or Luke.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject:

Another turnover-plagued, free-throw-bricking, poorly executed game, but, what the hey, it's preseason.

Aside from not having the injured players on the court, those injuries are forcing the Lakers to throw out lineups that don't mesh well. Having Farmar and Luke together works because they can either create or work off the ball. Putting those two together with Lamar, who is better creating than working off the ball, made for a lot of indecision, which seemed to cause a lot of the lack of late game execution.

Still, I liked the poise that Farmar has, despite the last play (what is it with Thomas never getting called for obvious last second hacks?). He's got the teardrop shot down and hit a clutch 3. Defensively, Livingston caused him some problems in the post. That's the only area where I'd have some real concerns about Farmar's PT.

Nice scoring game from Bynum, but only 4 boards and 4 TO's made his impact a wash. He reminds me of Kwame at the same time last year, like he's overthinking rather than instinctively reacting. That'll come with more PT. And it looks like he's going to get it with Kwame and Mihm out.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject:

This was the first game that I was able to watch, and one of the changes from last year that I noticed was our improved team defense. Smush was a ball-hawk, picking up Livingston in the backcourt, and our screen-roll defense looked much better. There was one play where Lamar doubled Mobley (?) on the pick-and-roll with Tim Thomas and hounded him with his long arms, forcing him into a turnover. He kind of reminded me of Scottie Pippen on that play.

DB, what do you make of our team defense? Amidst several bad plays were several excellent stops, IMO. Once all of the injured guys come back, do you see us becoming a better help-defense team?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:38 am    Post subject:

Hey DB -

That call against Green when Magette pumped was the worse of the game. Green went straight up about 1.5 ft from Magette and Corey jumped into him. They have to call that as an offensive or the defender has no ability to guard someone.

Smush's look away behind the back pass was Magic like. It was beautiful.

Farmar is looking great out there. Do you think his effectiveness wanes with him and Kobe and Kwame on the floor with LO and whoever?

Lamar really disappointed me last night. He just refused to go to the post at all during most of the game. It was okay when Smush was posting the guards or Andrew was down low, but otherwise he had ample opportunity to destroy the Clippers front court since Caveman was in street clothes. Why do you think he stayed on the perimeter so much?

If this team could shoot free throws it would be undefeated in the preseason - mistakes, injuries and all. I really hope this problem gets cured.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject:

Green played alot better, as I expected he would.

I'm telling you, get the kid a jumpshot and it'll all fall together for him.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject:

just saw the ending again on FSW.

i think it speaks volumes that they put the ball in jordan farmar's hands to win the game. i think it also speaks volumes about his game that he was fouled, and still managed to get the ball to mo evans for a last second shot.

anyone who blames farmar for the ending didn't see how many times lamar odom screwed the game up at the end. we all have bad games and im not sorried about lamar having a good season but 7 turnovers is unacceptable.

in the last few minutes he took 2 ill advised shots, got blocked, and got a couple of turnovers.

i really don't see why or how people still want smush to start.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject:

I don't see how people continue to make excuses for Odom. Dude still can't go right, still making horrible decisions down the stretch, etc.

But hey, "he's a good guy".

:roll:

If he doesn't start looking like a winner down the stretch of games, he'll likely be moved for someone who can.
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hoopschick29
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
I don't see how people continue to make excuses for Odom. Dude still can't go right, still making horrible decisions down the stretch, etc.

But hey, "he's a good guy".

:roll:

If he doesn't start looking like a winner down the stretch of games, he'll likely be moved for someone who can.


Lamar was pretty uncharacteristic last night. Not so much because of the mistakes, but more because of the way he kinda went ballhog on everybody there in the last few minutes. Farmar brought us back, he was doing his thing, and the Clips couldn't do anything with him. And Lamar just took the ball and the playmaking away from him.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS -- 10/19 -- Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

DancingBarry wrote:

Andrew Bynum gave some serviceable minutes as the starting center and had a tough defensive assignment in Elton Brand. He had some choppy moments out there and he couldn't hook up with teammates on a number of sloppy interior feeds that came his way.

He had a tough match up, going against Brand all night. He looked a little bit winded at times, didn't quite patrol the lane the kind of way you want to see, but he still held down the fort. He needs to get a little bit stronger and continue to fight for low positios (especially setting up weak to strong).

The Lakers then went to Lamar at C over Bynum and Turiaf down the stretch.
DB - As usual, appreciative your analyzing eyes. Do you think that Bynum has enough stamina to be the starter or will Turiaff be the starter at "5?"

Even if Bynum is the starter, how minutes do you feel that he will realistically play?

With LO at the "5" - it could be Vlad at "4" - Luke at "3" - Kobe at "2" - Jordan at "1" ==== this would be a fast lineup that might not be able to bang, but outside of Houston, that might not be a major concern

Thoughts
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject:

Green looked a lot better out there last night on both ends. He's surprising quick off the dribble and seems to be able to go strong with his left. He had an awful game against Sac, but he has had some shining moments during the rest of the preseason (interlaced with some bad moments). However, I think that he's done more good than harm while he's been out on the floor. Pinnock, on the other hand, really hasn't shown much other than a handful of good defensive stands. He really needs to pick it up because at this point, he's been blending into the crowd (at best).

Mo Evans looked solid out there. After seeing him in action against the Clippers, I think it's safe to say that he's a poor-man's Maggette.

Regarding Lamar, I think he's going to have a slow start to the season. As Reggie Miller pointed out, players get better year-in and year-out as a result of the training they do in the summer. With Lamar taking the summer off to cope with the death of his child, I don't expect him to pick up where he left off last season. He might know the offense better, but he'll need to build up the strength that allowed him to be more effective/explosive during the 2nd half of last season.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB!

Considering Kobe, Kwame, and Mihm who started last season and Cook who was the first big off the bench was also injured, it could have been much worse. The Clippers enjoy beating the Lakers. Their starters had significant minutes to the extent they were able to stay out of foul trouble. All things considered, the Lakers did okay, despite the loss. On paper this is a deep team when it's healthy, but it's hard to expect much under these circumstances. It's also hard not to appreciate the value of depth. I hope they get the injuries out of the way and have a healthy season.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject:

Klone_dd wrote:
Another turnover-plagued, free-throw-bricking, poorly executed game, but, what the hey, it's preseason.

Aside from not having the injured players on the court, those injuries are forcing the Lakers to throw out lineups that don't mesh well. Having Farmar and Luke together works because they can either create or work off the ball. Putting those two together with Lamar, who is better creating than working off the ball, made for a lot of indecision, which seemed to cause a lot of the lack of late game execution.

Still, I liked the poise that Farmar has, despite the last play (what is it with Thomas never getting called for obvious last second hacks?). He's got the teardrop shot down and hit a clutch 3. Defensively, Livingston caused him some problems in the post. That's the only area where I'd have some real concerns about Farmar's PT.

Nice scoring game from Bynum, but only 4 boards and 4 TO's made his impact a wash. He reminds me of Kwame at the same time last year, like he's overthinking rather than instinctively reacting. That'll come with more PT. And it looks like he's going to get it with Kwame and Mihm out.


Good catch on the farmar/ walton/ lo thing. I noticed it myself. Farmar and Walton have a wonderful connection, with Farmar getting the ball to Walton, cutting and getting it back. They seem to switch roles very well, always anticipating each other and their teammates, and I think you could use them in a P&R situation.

Smush played OK at times, but every view I get reaffirms that this team (regardless of who else is out there) performs at a higher level with Farmar than Smush. Not bashing Smush, but it's obvious that Jordan has a very positive effect on the team (as mentioned above, especially paired with Luke. Will wait to see how it works with kobe in the lineup before i really jump to conclusions, but the evidence so far is quite apparent.

As far as livingston posting up farmar, I thinklthat's a physical advantage the 6-7 player has over most point guards, based on size and athletecism. It's a big part of what makes him special. Not comparing farmar to them, but nash, parker (tony), CP3, etc. are all going to have that problem with livingston. what impressed me about farmar was that he did a credible job of bodying up, and attacked relentlessly on offense, with and without the ball. The fact that he can get wherever he wants to with the ball against good defenders and is almost better at moving without it makes him valuable in a lot of lineups.

Bynum was OK. I think he would have fared better against Kaman. Asking him to guard Brand for extended minutes is a lot at this point. At least he made a good offensive showing and stayed on the floor with some degree of activity. I liked seeing him slow himself down a bit on offense, which brings much better results.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:


rambis nor phil has ever had a REAL PG. question is this, do they understand the ball needs to be in his hands, triangle or no triangle?



On the face of it, it might seem silly... but that's a legitimate question.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject:

RYZ wrote:

And why suddenly can't Pinnock convert a dunk? The guy looked like Harold Freaking Miner in the SPL (and don't give me any of that "it's the SPL" jazz, this kid is quite capable of finishing semi-contested dunks)?

Yeah, I agree his finishing right now has disappeared with the rest of his offensive game. Even the open jumpers are bricking. He's playing some quality D, which is good.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:22 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:


^^even though you're 100% correct with your assessment of giving the ball to the floor general aka real PG. rambis nor phil has ever had a REAL PG. question is this, do they understand the ball needs to be in his hands, triangle or no triangle?


They seemed to have learned to get the ball in Kobe's hands out there at the end of games. They went back to Farmar at the end of the game in the last play, knowing that was one of the better options. But that was off the Rambis timeout. The rest of the guys seemed to be the ones who needed to be leashed in a little or given in a little more direction. That's why I was a little irked a timeout wasn't taken sooner.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject:

wildcat wrote:

DB, what do you make of our team defense? Amidst several bad plays were several excellent stops, IMO. Once all of the injured guys come back, do you see us becoming a better help-defense team?


When healthy, we've got a lot of options that can actually play in close games. That will give Phil flexibility. Flexibility means better match ups on D. Guys like Turiaf, who is a very good team D defender and quality shot blocker, or Farmar who can match up better with PGs (but more importantly never stops rotating and hustling)...they will make an impact if given playing time, which is the key. WHEN those guys get battle tested, we've got the makings of a better than average defensive team. Turiaf will be thrown in the fire out of necessity. Hopefully, Farmar continues to play his way into key minutes.

The key, for me, is Phil has to develop trust in these guys. Hard to say how long that will take.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: CLIPPERS -at- LAKERS -- 10/19 -- Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
DB - As usual, appreciative your analyzing eyes. Do you think that Bynum has enough stamina to be the starter or will Turiaff be the starter at "5?"

Even if Bynum is the starter, how minutes do you feel that he will realistically play?

With LO at the "5" - it could be Vlad at "4" - Luke at "3" - Kobe at "2" - Jordan at "1" ==== this would be a fast lineup that might not be able to bang, but outside of Houston, that might not be a major concern

Thoughts


Tough call. Might depend on the opponet to some extent. But he was looking a bit winded out there at times. That was Turiaf's weakest game, so that kind of pushed Bynum out there more. Not sure how many minutes he can last. We'll keep a close eye on it as he gets some extended stints.
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