SUNS -vs- LAKERS -- 10/15 -- Thoughts and :-(( ratings
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RYZ
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject:

Thanks, DB.

Every time I see Farmar on the court, I'm further reminded how very little 'point guard' any of our other 1s actually have in them. Smush looks to have extended the range on his jumper- let him play some 2 (like last night) in a third string role; that's what he is. Shammond's shotput was falling last night- let him come in and spot-up for 5 min. a game; that's what he is. Again, going back to my Derek Harper reference the other day, extending from Fisher right up through Smush, we've had a succession of undersized 2s running the PG spot. To see Farmar creating for everyone else (and that really wasn't even his strong suit in college) is such a relief. When the Lakers need a basket in crunch time, the prospect of him on the court with Kobe is mouth-watering.

Turiaf looks awesome. He appears to be far less 'reachy' down low than in his college days. There were moments defensively last night where he just owned Amare. Very impressive at center. Of course he was playing a 6'8" center who, like you said, isn't back to full strength, but a nice showing nonetheless.

BTW: Do you really think Bynum will be as developed offensively as Curry within a year? That sounds a tad optimistic to me. Don't get me wrong, I see the kid's progress and would take him a million times before Curry, but I just don't see that type of refinement coming within the next 12 months.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject:

ok i know we lost the game...but playing without our main inside presence and our main outside presence/best player in the game and only losing to the powerhouse suns by 8 points is very encouraging to me.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject:

Flight#24 wrote:
One thing that I have noticed is that Bynum can't really do anything (other than pass the ball) or back down his man once he gets the ball in the post. That should improve with time (hopefully), because in high school the centers he played with were probably 6'5" and now he is playing with men his size.

But his defense improved a lot, so he is still worthy of a good 10-15 minutes this season.


I'm not worried about it. Duncan gets the ball in the traditional low post position(whereas Bynum is getting it in the midpost, and when he gets it in the low post, he passes, except for that time when he missed the left-handed layup) whenever he wants, so it's not an issue of strength, but rather just a matter of the team making a systemic effort to get him the ball down there.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject:

Farmar more than held his own against the 2xMVP. I think he even earned some respect from Nashty after he backdoored him. Nash immediately went right at Farmar on the next play.

Turiaf was equally impressive. His hustle, desire and toughness will earn him PT.

Amare looked better than I had read. Timing's off, but you could see his explosiveness coming back. Don't know how he'll hold up when the real season starts, but I think he'll be fine... unfortunately.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:34 am    Post subject: You gotta love this guy's moxie!

Did you guys see Farmar slap Nash on the behind as he headed to the lockerroom at the end of the first.

You gotta love this guys moxie!

Farmar held his own against Nash and I think that charge fall on Nash was on purpose to send a message to the young ex-Bruin.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject:

all this excitement over Famar and wach Phil not play the kid! it's all in Phil's ego. when management, assistant coaches, and even vet players tell Phil what he should do, he always does the opposite. you guys know the drill by now!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject:

RYZ wrote:
Thanks, DB.

Every time I see Farmar on the court, I'm further reminded how very little 'point guard' any of our other 1s actually have in them. Smush looks to have extended the range on his jumper- let him play some 2 (like last night) in a third string role; that's what he is. Shammond's shotput was falling last night- let him come in and spot-up for 5 min. a game; that's what he is. Again, going back to my Derek Harper reference the other day, extending from Fisher right up through Smush, we've had a succession of undersized 2s running the PG spot. To see Farmar creating for everyone else (and that really wasn't even his strong suit in college) is such a relief. When the Lakers need a basket in crunch time, the prospect of him on the court with Kobe is mouth-watering.

Turiaf looks awesome. He appears to be far less 'reachy' down low than in his college days. There were moments defensively last night where he just owned Amare. Very impressive at center. Of course he was playing a 6'8" center who, like you said, isn't back to full strength, but a nice showing nonetheless.

BTW: Do you really think Bynum will be as developed offensively as Curry within a year? That sounds a tad optimistic to me. Don't get me wrong, I see the kid's progress and would take him a million times before Curry, but I just don't see that type of refinement coming within the next 12 months.
Third string? come on, he's way better than that! I'd like to see him start or at least play some times with Farmar at the 1, Smush at the 2, Kobe at the 3, Lamar at 4 and Kwame at 5. I think that could be a lethal combination. I really don't think you'll see Farmar start this year, however I do hope he gets to play significant minutes.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject:

Wow somebody said a guy who went 5-6 from 3 is a 3rd stringer. I fear that person coaching.

I would like to say this: The Suns coaches fear the Lakers - Why? They played their top 8 nearly the whole game. Normally, this would be no big deal, but it's not like these guys didn't just play together over in Europe and gel already. Why else would you do that against a team lacking Kobe, Kwame and Mihm? (Yes Sasha too).

I don't think the players do - they have that same swagger as before, but the coaches do. They see the potential of disaster in another head to head matchup. Granted, Bell didn't see a lot of time - Nash did, which is saying a lot more because they can thrive without Bell, but not without Nash.

It's great to see Amare back. I just love this guy and hope he reaches and surpasses where he was 2 years ago.

Great breakdown DB and the Lakers looked decent.

For those hating on Smush - there are some people you just can't guard. Kobe has a helluva time against Ray Allen and Smush just can't guard Nash. That's why we go get guys like Farmar who is more of the same body type. Farmar is built to play the CP3's, Nash's, T. Parkers of the league. The guys who can just make you look stupid while getting in the key. If Smush can continue to shoot like that against the Suns - I'll take it.
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RYZ
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject:

karlmalonefan wrote:
RYZ wrote:
Thanks, DB.

Every time I see Farmar on the court, I'm further reminded how very little 'point guard' any of our other 1s actually have in them. Smush looks to have extended the range on his jumper- let him play some 2 (like last night) in a third string role; that's what he is. Shammond's shotput was falling last night- let him come in and spot-up for 5 min. a game; that's what he is. Again, going back to my Derek Harper reference the other day, extending from Fisher right up through Smush, we've had a succession of undersized 2s running the PG spot. To see Farmar creating for everyone else (and that really wasn't even his strong suit in college) is such a relief. When the Lakers need a basket in crunch time, the prospect of him on the court with Kobe is mouth-watering.

Turiaf looks awesome. He appears to be far less 'reachy' down low than in his college days. There were moments defensively last night where he just owned Amare. Very impressive at center. Of course he was playing a 6'8" center who, like you said, isn't back to full strength, but a nice showing nonetheless.

BTW: Do you really think Bynum will be as developed offensively as Curry within a year? That sounds a tad optimistic to me. Don't get me wrong, I see the kid's progress and would take him a million times before Curry, but I just don't see that type of refinement coming within the next 12 months.
Third string? come on, he's way better than that! I'd like to see him start or at least play some times with Farmar at the 1, Smush at the 2, Kobe at the 3, Lamar at 4 and Kwame at 5. I think that could be a lethal combination. I really don't think you'll see Farmar start this year, however I do hope he gets to play significant minutes.


Depending upon the defensive matchups I could definitely see that, and that's probably why Rambis ran that backcourt combo for two stretches last night. Honestly though, my point isn't to insult Smush but rather to emphasize that he's an undersized 2, a point that's highlighted in neon every time Farmar steps on the floor. The contrast in the team's offensive efficiency between Farmar and Smush's stints at PG is sharp.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject:

[quote="RYZ"]
karlmalonefan wrote:
RYZ wrote:
Thanks, DB.

Every time I see Farmar on the court, I'm further reminded how very little 'point guard' any of our other 1s actually have in them. Smush looks to have extended the range on his jumper- let him play some 2 (like last night) in a third string role; that's what he is. Shammond's shotput was falling last night- let him come in and spot-up for 5 min. a game; that's what he is. Again, going back to my Derek Harper reference the other day, extending from Fisher right up through Smush, we've had a succession of undersized 2s running the PG spot. To see Farmar creating for everyone else (and that really wasn't even his strong suit in college) is such a relief. When the Lakers need a basket in crunch time, the prospect of him on the court with Kobe is mouth-watering.

Turiaf looks awesome. He appears to be far less 'reachy' down low than in his college days. There were moments defensively last night where he just owned Amare. Very impressive at center. Of course he was playing a 6'8" center who, like you said, isn't back to full strength, but a nice showing nonetheless.

BTW: Do you really think Bynum will be as developed offensively as Curry within a year? That sounds a tad optimistic to me. Don't get me wrong, I see the kid's progress and would take him a million times before Curry, but I just don't see that type of refinement coming within the next 12 months.
Third string? come on, he's way better than that! I'd like to see him start or at least play some times with Farmar at the 1, Smush at the 2, Kobe at the 3, Lamar at 4 and Kwame at 5. I think that could be a lethal combination. I really don't think you'll see Farmar start this year, however I do hope he gets to play significant minutes.


Depending upon the defensive matchups I could definitely see that, and that's probably why Rambis ran that backcourt combo for two stretches last night. Honestly though, my point isn't to insult Smush but rather to emphasize that he's an undersized 2, a point that's highlighted in neon every time Farmar steps on the floor. The contrast in the team's offensive efficiency between Farmar and Smush's stints at PG is sharp.[/quote]

Sadly enough - that's the truth in most of the league. The only thing more rare than a true PG is a true C. Also - guys like Nash, Parker and CP3 get smashed when they play against Marbury, Billups, Francis and Kid. These are guys who have true PG and SG skills in a bigger body - which is what the majority of teams prefer.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject:

The problems that I see, which will hopefully be taken care of as the season gets closer is the still the defense. I know we are missing a few pieces, but we were outboarded on the offensive end by the Suns. The Suns starters also shot 60%. And that's with Nash and others playing relatively few minutes.

It's not a trend that I like, but hopefully our big guns get back soon so that we have better position on defense, and help defense isn't as required.

Hopefully, people will be crashing the boards more during the regular season.
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karlmalonefan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject:

RYZ wrote:
karlmalonefan wrote:
RYZ wrote:
Thanks, DB.

Every time I see Farmar on the court, I'm further reminded how very little 'point guard' any of our other 1s actually have in them. Smush looks to have extended the range on his jumper- let him play some 2 (like last night) in a third string role; that's what he is. Shammond's shotput was falling last night- let him come in and spot-up for 5 min. a game; that's what he is. Again, going back to my Derek Harper reference the other day, extending from Fisher right up through Smush, we've had a succession of undersized 2s running the PG spot. To see Farmar creating for everyone else (and that really wasn't even his strong suit in college) is such a relief. When the Lakers need a basket in crunch time, the prospect of him on the court with Kobe is mouth-watering.

Turiaf looks awesome. He appears to be far less 'reachy' down low than in his college days. There were moments defensively last night where he just owned Amare. Very impressive at center. Of course he was playing a 6'8" center who, like you said, isn't back to full strength, but a nice showing nonetheless.

BTW: Do you really think Bynum will be as developed offensively as Curry within a year? That sounds a tad optimistic to me. Don't get me wrong, I see the kid's progress and would take him a million times before Curry, but I just don't see that type of refinement coming within the next 12 months.
Third string? come on, he's way better than that! I'd like to see him start or at least play some times with Farmar at the 1, Smush at the 2, Kobe at the 3, Lamar at 4 and Kwame at 5. I think that could be a lethal combination. I really don't think you'll see Farmar start this year, however I do hope he gets to play significant minutes.


Depending upon the defensive matchups I could definitely see that, and that's probably why Rambis ran that backcourt combo for two stretches last night. Honestly though, my point isn't to insult Smush but rather to emphasize that he's an undersized 2, a point that's highlighted in neon every time Farmar steps on the floor. The contrast in the team's offensive efficiency between Farmar and Smush's stints at PG is sharp.
All of that may be true, but it sure don't make Smush a 3rd stringer whether you're talking point guard or 2 guard...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject:

re4ee wrote:
Flight#24 wrote:
One thing that I have noticed is that Bynum can't really do anything (other than pass the ball) or back down his man once he gets the ball in the post. That should improve with time (hopefully), because in high school the centers he played with were probably 6'5" and now he is playing with men his size.

But his defense improved a lot, so he is still worthy of a good 10-15 minutes this season.
He can do THIS!

I would say that he's already showing MUCH improvement, only going to get better.

BTW, is the league ever going to start whistling these?

Offensive foul!

Another!


No because Steve Nash is the two time MVP along with Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Kareem...

How many rings has Nash won again, I can't seem to recall?

Talk about sucking on to your balls :roll: Nash, Wade, LeBronze all get those special attention by the "Stern-ed" refs where as Kobe... (nah I don't to start it again).
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject:

karlmalonefan wrote:
Third string? come on, he's way better than that! I'd like to see him start or at least play some times with Farmar at the 1, Smush at the 2, Kobe at the 3, Lamar at 4 and Kwame at 5. I think that could be a lethal combination. I really don't think you'll see Farmar start this year, however I do hope he gets to play significant minutes.
Yeah, it's always good to have 80% of the team playing out of position. :roll: Honestly, there may be a stituation or two that we may see that combo, or a similar one, but if used against most of the league, that lineup would put 3 or 4 starters in serious foul trouble, pretty quickly.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject:

psydesho wrote:
Wow somebody said a guy who went 5-6 from 3 is a 3rd stringer. I fear that person coaching.

I would like to say this: The Suns coaches fear the Lakers - Why? They played their top 8 nearly the whole game. Normally, this would be no big deal, but it's not like these guys didn't just play together over in Europe and gel already. Why else would you do that against a team lacking Kobe, Kwame and Mihm? (Yes Sasha too).

I don't think the players do - they have that same swagger as before, but the coaches do. They see the potential of disaster in another head to head matchup. Granted, Bell didn't see a lot of time - Nash did, which is saying a lot more because they can thrive without Bell, but not without Nash.

It's great to see Amare back. I just love this guy and hope he reaches and surpasses where he was 2 years ago.

Great breakdown DB and the Lakers looked decent.

For those hating on Smush - there are some people you just can't guard. Kobe has a helluva time against Ray Allen and Smush just can't guard Nash. That's why we go get guys like Farmar who is more of the same body type. Farmar is built to play the CP3's, Nash's, T. Parkers of the league. The guys who can just make you look stupid while getting in the key. If Smush can continue to shoot like that against the Suns - I'll take it.


I didn't say anything about Smush's defense but it was terrible again last night. Smush doesn't guard anyone anymore. He hasn't since about a month into the season last year. What's worse is he had that same old crappy body language last night, and if the way he closed out the playoffs last year wasn't enough to correct that attitude/body language, I don't think anything will.

That fact that we have to go a guy like Farmar for defense -- a guy who was arguably the worst defender amongst UCLA's starting five last year -- says a lot about Smush. Smush has the height and reach advantages over Farmar, he possesses ample lateral quicks, and even quicker hands. Yet still we look to a guy (Farmar) never known for his 'D' to slow down other 1s. Not impressive.

Regarding the offense, well, yessir, if Smush shoots 83% from three this year I dare say he will make a noteworthy contribution to the team. The point is:

a. He won't.
b. Even with Smush hitting at that incredible clip the Lakers were still never in the game when he was at PG.
c. A couple of those 3s came while he was playing off the ball, the position at which Kobe will see 95% of the minutes, with the remainder hopefully filled by adefensive specialist (Mo Evans).

Again, not to denigrate Smush (and I realize a remark like "3rd stringer" looks like that), he's just one of those guys who, like Cook, when he doesn't have everything working for him offensively on a given night costs the team more than he contributes- be it lack of playmaking on offense or laziness on defense. So I will respectfully withdraw the "3rd stringer" remark and leave it at backup, undersized 2-guard.

Remember all those games the Lakers lead yet lost down the stretch last year because of not having a real PG out there? Decision making; controlling tempo; seeing the floor; creating for others; getting people the ball in spots where they can score: Those were the differences between winning and losing those games. I just hope that when crunch time comes this year, I see #5 out there at the point, and not #1.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject:

re4ee wrote:
karlmalonefan wrote:
Third string? come on, he's way better than that! I'd like to see him start or at least play some times with Farmar at the 1, Smush at the 2, Kobe at the 3, Lamar at 4 and Kwame at 5. I think that could be a lethal combination. I really don't think you'll see Farmar start this year, however I do hope he gets to play significant minutes.
Yeah, it's always good to have 80% of the team playing out of position. :roll: Honestly, there may be a stituation or two that we may see that combo, or a similar one, but if used against most of the league, that lineup would put 3 or 4 starters in serious foul trouble, pretty quickly.


Doesn't matter if you're playing 4 guys out of position. If you score at a higher rate than you give up, then the lineup works.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: You gotta love this guy's moxie!

Thanks DB, your recaps are very much appreciated by those of us who cant see the games. Great job.

MrClutch44 wrote:
Did you guys see Farmar slap Nash on the behind as he headed to the lockerroom at the end of the first.


You gotta love Farmar, thats the sort of thing a rookie Kobe would do.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:43 pm    Post subject:

DB - great job as usual!!! Thanks a million.

Would you be willing to comment on the fact that several times Kurt had Smush and Farmar on the floor together. Was this an anomily due to off guard injuries, or would they think of running to "point" guards at the same time either with Kobe off the floor or perhaps moving to SF?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject:

targetman wrote:
DB, great recap but check the points on Lamar. It just seemed like 0.


Oops. Pressed the "0" instead of "9". Thanks. Fixed.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject:

thanks DB... your report is priceless for those of us without tv access to these games.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject:

As always, great work DB!

Do you think that Luke would be more valuable as the leader of the 2nd unit or as part of the starting lineup. Of course, part of this equation would be Vlad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject:

japanesebeef1 wrote:

Would you be willing to comment on the fact that several times Kurt had Smush and Farmar on the floor together. Was this an anomily due to off guard injuries, or would they think of running to "point" guards at the same time either with Kobe off the floor or perhaps moving to SF?


I did mention it a little above. I am not sure whether it is a Phoenix matchup/Laker injury thing or not. The team has mentioned that they may run a little more small ball, so it could be a lineup they use on occasion. But I'd think Sasha may end up having those minutes at SG that Smush had. Tricky to say at this point with any certainty. Against certain teams Smush may be much better off in that role.

But I'm all for any way they can create more minutes for Farmar and Smush can certainly run at the SG against a decent chunk of teams.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
As always, great work DB!

Do you think that Luke would be more valuable as the leader of the 2nd unit or as part of the starting lineup. Of course, part of this equation would be Vlad


I think he'll play with both. I do think there is a lot of value to having Walton (and Farmar) out there when Kobe and/or Odom are out of the game. That will help the unit's offense quite a bit from stalling out or being predictable and easily defended. Eventually, when Vlad is ready, I think they'd like to have Vlad, Kobe and Odom out there to spread the floor for Kobe to drive/post up or Odom to drive/post up.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:04 pm    Post subject:

3 quick observations:

1. Smush's release looks way more fluid then last year.

2. LO still can't go right. It was almost comical last night watching him settle for stepback jumpers.

3. Radmanovic surprises me with how many defensive deflections he gets.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject:

la45 wrote:
re4ee wrote:
karlmalonefan wrote:
Third string? come on, he's way better than that! I'd like to see him start or at least play some times with Farmar at the 1, Smush at the 2, Kobe at the 3, Lamar at 4 and Kwame at 5. I think that could be a lethal combination. I really don't think you'll see Farmar start this year, however I do hope he gets to play significant minutes.
Yeah, it's always good to have 80% of the team playing out of position. :roll: Honestly, there may be a stituation or two that we may see that combo, or a similar one, but if used against most of the league, that lineup would put 3 or 4 starters in serious foul trouble, pretty quickly.


Doesn't matter if you're playing 4 guys out of position. If you score at a higher rate than you give up, then the lineup works.
Besides that, who is the 80%, ref? Jordan is a PG so he's fine. Everyone says smush is more of a 2 guard, so he's fine, Kobe prefers playing the 3, so he's fine, Lamar WILL be playing alot of 4 this year no matter if folks think he should be there or not, so he's going to be there anyway, and Kwame is our starting 5. Not sure who all you meant, but if Smush is going to be bombing those threes (remains to be seen) then he'd do fine as a two guard...seems DB might just agree with me:

Quote:
Quote:
Would you be willing to comment on the fact that several times Kurt had Smush and Farmar on the floor together. Was this an anomily due to off guard injuries, or would they think of running to "point" guards at the same time either with Kobe off the floor or perhaps moving to SF?


I did mention it a little above. I am not sure whether it is a Phoenix matchup/Laker injury thing or not. The team has mentioned that they may run a little more small ball, so it could be a lineup they use on occasion. But I'd think Sasha may end up having those minutes at SG that Smush had. Tricky to say at this point with any certainty. Against certain teams Smush may be much better off in that role.

But I'm all for any way they can create more minutes for Farmar and Smush can certainly run at the SG against a decent chunk of teams.

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