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angel
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 Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
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Illegal drug use leaves a trail of impaired and neglected children in the hands of the government. Where there are birth defects, it's hardly a victimless crime. The cost to take care of abuser's children far outweighs any tax benefits. Those who smoke tobacco cigarettes generally can take care of children nearly as well as those who do not smoke. Chronic marijuana users aren't in the same category.
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Nudizl_Forshizl
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: |
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[quote="angel"]Illegal drug use leaves a trail of impaired and neglected children in the hands of the government. Where there are birth defects, it's hardly a victimless crime.
So do legal drugs. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome? Hydrocephalus? (sp). Smoking cigarettes during pregnancy increases the birth defect rate exponentially. Your arguement has way too many holes to be taken seriously. (no offense intended)
The cost to take care of abuser's children far outweighs any tax benefits.
Have you ran the numbers on this? I believe that you're just speculating. Imagine the state/county governments charging black market prices and keeping the difference from the mass production cost as a tax/profit. ~$20 gram - less than $1 to make * x grams/year = .. well you get the point.
Those who smoke tobacco cigarettes generally can take care of children nearly as well as those who do not smoke.
more unfounded speculation. my own speculation: the correlation between alcoholic parents and instances of child abuse/neglect trumps the correlation between marijuana users and abuse/neglect. (hint, w/o real data both positions are meaningless)
know anyone that becomes angry or abusive on the weed? its a rare breed.
Chronic marijuana users aren't in the same category.
respectfully but vehemently disagree. my sister and her husband adopted an autistic baby. they both work full time hours, and spend no less than 3 hours every day with specialised tutors. i honestly can't imagine anyone being better parents (well, maybe if they were wealthy enough to afford not having to work, but that's moot).
they smoke every day w/o fail, after the baby goes to sleep, in the garage.
Jerry hit the nail on the head with his post.
Nobody that uses cares about the potential affects.
It's extremly easy to get.
It's never ever ever going to go away.
Why not put the money to good use?
We really could use it. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | | Illegal drug use leaves a trail of impaired and neglected children in the hands of the government. Where there are birth defects, it's hardly a victimless crime. The cost to take care of abuser's children far outweighs any tax benefits. Those who smoke tobacco cigarettes generally can take care of children nearly as well as those who do not smoke. Chronic marijuana users aren't in the same category. |
This thread is about whether marijuana should be legal or not. The fact that people who use drugs harm themselves and their families, while tragic, doesn't specifically pertain to the topic. Alochol addiction and cigarette addiction have caused MUCH more harm to society than marijuana. Let's put it another way. Think of all of the people who you know personally who have tried marijuana, even once in their lives; parents, teachers, preachers, cops, lawyers, doctors, presidents, congressmen, et al. . . should we really take all of those people, round them up and put them in jail? Is that even remotely close to justice? It's easy to say that the bad people who abuse drugs and abuse their children should be locked up, and I agree that they should be locked up for the ABUSE. But what about the 40-60% of SOCIETY AS A WHOLE who try drugs, should they all be locked up too? Every society, through every social class and education level since the beginning of time have had some mind altering substance that people ingested in some form - like it or not it is human nature. |
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maddprophet
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Nudizl_Forshizl"] | angel wrote: | Illegal drug use leaves a trail of impaired and neglected children in the hands of the government. Where there are birth defects, it's hardly a victimless crime.
So do legal drugs. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome? Hydrocephalus? (sp). Smoking cigarettes during pregnancy increases the birth defect rate exponentially. Your arguement has way too many holes to be taken seriously. (no offense intended)
The cost to take care of abuser's children far outweighs any tax benefits.
Have you ran the numbers on this? I believe that you're just speculating. Imagine the state/county governments charging black market prices and keeping the difference from the mass production cost as a tax/profit. ~$20 gram - less than $1 to make * x grams/year = .. well you get the point.
Those who smoke tobacco cigarettes generally can take care of children nearly as well as those who do not smoke.
more unfounded speculation. my own speculation: the correlation between alcoholic parents and instances of child abuse/neglect trumps the correlation between marijuana users and abuse/neglect. (hint, w/o real data both positions are meaningless)
know anyone that becomes angry or abusive on the weed? its a rare breed.
Chronic marijuana users aren't in the same category.
respectfully but vehemently disagree. my sister and her husband adopted an autistic baby. they both work full time hours, and spend no less than 3 hours every day with specialised tutors. i honestly can't imagine anyone being better parents (well, maybe if they were wealthy enough to afford not having to work, but that's moot).
they smoke every day w/o fail, after the baby goes to sleep, in the garage.
Jerry hit the nail on the head with his post.
Nobody that uses cares about the potential affects.
It's extremly easy to get.
It's never ever ever going to go away.
Why not put the money to good use?
We really could use it. |
great post!!
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angel
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | angel wrote: | | Illegal drug use leaves a trail of impaired and neglected children in the hands of the government. Where there are birth defects, it's hardly a victimless crime. The cost to take care of abuser's children far outweighs any tax benefits. Those who smoke tobacco cigarettes generally can take care of children nearly as well as those who do not smoke. Chronic marijuana users aren't in the same category. |
This thread is about whether marijuana should be legal or not. The fact that people who use drugs harm themselves and their families, while tragic, doesn't specifically pertain to the topic. Alochol addiction and cigarette addiction have caused MUCH more harm to society than marijuana. Let's put it another way. Think of all of the people who you know personally who have tried marijuana, even once in their lives; parents, teachers, preachers, cops, lawyers, doctors, presidents, congressmen, et al. . . should we really take all of those people, round them up and put them in jail? Is that even remotely close to justice? It's easy to say that the bad people who abuse drugs and abuse their children should be locked up, and I agree that they should be locked up for the ABUSE. But what about the 40-60% of SOCIETY AS A WHOLE who try drugs, should they all be locked up too? Every society, through every social class and education level since the beginning of time have had some mind altering substance that people ingested in some form - like it or not it is human nature. |
Whether or not something should be legalized should consider potential harm. If you are willing to recognize smoking regular tobacco cigarettes as a problem in sociiety, why does that make marijuana smoking okay? Evidence based medicine has established that certain people are susceptible to schizophrenia though marijuana use. Brain scans showing physical changes verify the damage caused. There is genetic susceptibility. If it's not readily available, many won't be exposed. Legalization expands the exposure. In theory, you are making an argument why there should be a change for expansion. Equating smoking regular tobacco cigarettes to smoking marijuana is an argument that both should be eliminated. Kids pickup cigarettes from the ground, and do steal cigarettes from their parents. Why increase the exposure? Why shouldn't it be a controlled substance, which limited to medical uses? People with drug problems aren't normally sent to jail the first time. There is counseling to avert the harmful behavior. Chronic marijuana users do abuse and neglect children at a higher rate than tobacco users. Chronic marijuana users have a hard time holding jobs and meeting obligations. The foster care system is filled with children who have suffered from mental and physical damage. It's our tax dollars that support these children. Why expand the market by making it legal?
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | angel wrote: | | Illegal drug use leaves a trail of impaired and neglected children in the hands of the government. Where there are birth defects, it's hardly a victimless crime. The cost to take care of abuser's children far outweighs any tax benefits. Those who smoke tobacco cigarettes generally can take care of children nearly as well as those who do not smoke. Chronic marijuana users aren't in the same category. |
This thread is about whether marijuana should be legal or not. The fact that people who use drugs harm themselves and their families, while tragic, doesn't specifically pertain to the topic. Alochol addiction and cigarette addiction have caused MUCH more harm to society than marijuana. Let's put it another way. Think of all of the people who you know personally who have tried marijuana, even once in their lives; parents, teachers, preachers, cops, lawyers, doctors, presidents, congressmen, et al. . . should we really take all of those people, round them up and put them in jail? Is that even remotely close to justice? It's easy to say that the bad people who abuse drugs and abuse their children should be locked up, and I agree that they should be locked up for the ABUSE. But what about the 40-60% of SOCIETY AS A WHOLE who try drugs, should they all be locked up too? Every society, through every social class and education level since the beginning of time have had some mind altering substance that people ingested in some form - like it or not it is human nature. |
Whether or not something should be legalized should consider potential harm. If you are willing to recognize smoking regular tobacco cigarettes as a problem in sociiety, why does that make marijuana smoking okay? Evidence based medicine has established that certain people are susceptible to schizophrenia though marijuana use. Brain scans showing physical changes verify the damage caused. There is genetic susceptibility. If it's not readily available, many won't be exposed. Legalization expands the exposure. In theory, you are making an argument why there should be a change for expansion. Equating smoking regular tobacco cigarettes to smoking marijuana is an argument that both should be eliminated. Kids pickup cigarettes from the ground, and do steal cigarettes from their parents. Why increase the exposure? Why shouldn't it be a controlled substance, which limited to medical uses? People with drug problems aren't normally sent to jail the first time. There is counseling to avert the harmful behavior. Chronic marijuana users do abuse and neglect children at a higher rate than tobacco users. Chronic marijuana users have a hard time holding jobs and meeting obligations. The foster care system is filled with children who have suffered from mental and physical damage. It's our tax dollars that support these children. Why expand the market by making it legal? |
Even if Everything you said was true, the biggest difference to society is that cigarettees are taxed and the $$ is used to educate people against smoking. It is regulated so that the occasional user knows exactly what he is buying. It is controlled so that children cannot buy it. And millions of low level street dealers don't drop out of school and arm themselves with guns to settle distribution territories for cigarettes. Also, people in foreign governments don't enjoy huge profits illegally smuggling cigarettes into this country, and then fly planes into our buildings. Plus, you are using the example of the bad "addict" who abuses their children. They should be locked up for the abuse, not the addiction. Alcohol abusers who batter, are arrested for battery, not because they have beer in the fridge. The abuse of others is a crime. The abuse of self is not.
Don't smoke because you don't want to, weed or tobacco. But to arrest everyone who partakes in something that is potentially harmful to themselves or others is completely counterproductive. It doesn't work.
All of the things you say are applicable to alcohol. So should we go back to prohibition and really start gang-wars and crime? Prohibiton taught us that it cannot be stopped. Second choice is to control, regulate, tax, and educate people about the dangers. Do we really want government to criminalize something that more than half of society has used? What, send over half of the country to jail? |
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Flight
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Drugs are so unnecessary.
SAY NO TO DRUGS! |
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JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Flight wrote: | Drugs are so unnecessary.
SAY NO TO DRUGS! |
Well, except for the thousands that are regulated, tested, and taxed, and used all of the time by adults-every person not in a third world country at least. Many are derived from, and have the same effects (good and bad) as the "street" drugs that you are probably referring to. People take drugs because drugs make people feel better. Drugs are bad because they have a TON of consequences, most of which aren't worth the "high". That is why education, regulation and taxation have to work together to keep kids safe.
Just say NO doesn't work. |
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eureca
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Flight wrote: | Drugs are so unnecessary.
SAY NO TO DRUGS! |
OK Tom Cruise. |
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Flight
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Posts: 4740
Location: The OC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | | Flight wrote: | Drugs are so unnecessary.
SAY NO TO DRUGS! |
OK Tom Cruise. |
Hey man, don't go there.  |
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lakeshow03
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Posts: 3086
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| anyone know how long it stays in your system |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Flight wrote: | Drugs are so unnecessary.
SAY NO TO DRUGS! |
that is your choice. take a minute to value the freedom you have to make that choice. now don't take that freedom away from anyone else. |
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LALfan4life
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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What is the point of having marijuana legalized? Isn’t the damage caused by alcohol and cigarettes enough?
I can understand using the drug for medicinal purposes but I don’t see a positive purpose for recreational use. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: | What is the point of having marijuana legalized? Isn’t the damage caused by alcohol and cigarettes enough?
I can understand using the drug for medicinal purposes but I don’t see a positive purpose for recreational use. |
because the people who do it like it and what right do you have to tell them they can't? |
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LALfan4life
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | | LALfan4life wrote: | What is the point of having marijuana legalized? Isn’t the damage caused by alcohol and cigarettes enough?
I can understand using the drug for medicinal purposes but I don’t see a positive purpose for recreational use. |
because the people who do it like it and what right do you have to tell them they can't? |
You didn't answer the question. I will ask it again. Other than medicinal, what purpose does it serve? What are the positive aspects of making marijuana a legal recreational drug? Why should the system go out of its way to change the law just because “some people like it?” Currently many of us believe that the negative affects of marijuana far out way your right to smoke it. Until there is a collective decision to make marijuana legal you and others will just have to deal. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | | LALfan4life wrote: | What is the point of having marijuana legalized? Isn’t the damage caused by alcohol and cigarettes enough?
I can understand using the drug for medicinal purposes but I don’t see a positive purpose for recreational use. |
because the people who do it like it and what right do you have to tell them they can't? |
You didn't answer the question. I will ask it again. Other than medicinal, what purpose does it serve? What are the positive aspects of making marijuana a legal recreational drug? Why should the system go out of its way to change the law just because “some people like it?” Currently many of us believe that the negative affects of marijuana far out way your right to smoke it. Until there is a collective decision to make marijuana legal you and others will just have to deal. |
what is the purpose of making chocolate legal? or movies? or anything people enjoy? because there's no logical reason not to make it legal. the positive aspects of marijuana other than medicinal is that people enjoy it. it brings happiness to those who enjoy it. and it relaxes a lot of people.
let me state for the record that i don't smoke pot. i used to but i stopped enjoying it.
why should the system go out of its way to legalize it? it seems like the system has no problem going out of its way to spend B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S of dollars to try and stop it even though they can't. you know how much money has been spent on the drug war...a war with no results? if it were legalized, and taxed (just like tobacco)..not only would we save B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S of dollars by cancelling the futile drug war, but our system would actually EARN money to spend on more productive issues.
i believe it should be legalized because i believe in freedom. i think people should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses personal safety. you have no right to tell someone else what they can and cannot smoke. neither do i. neither does the government. that's not freedom, that's control. that's an outside body making a moral decision (not a health related one) for me. i don't like that.
as for the 'negative effects' which you speak of (or actually, which you failed to actually mention)... if you would like to pull up the data of marijuana related fatalities and then compare them with alcohol related fatalities, tobacco related fatalities, and automobile related fatalities i think you'll realize that you don't really have an argument. that is, unless you are advocating the ban of alcohol, tobacco and cars. just because something is potentially dangerous when abused doesn't mean that government should make it illegal for those who choose to use it responsibly. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | | LALfan4life wrote: | What is the point of having marijuana legalized? Isn’t the damage caused by alcohol and cigarettes enough?
I can understand using the drug for medicinal purposes but I don’t see a positive purpose for recreational use. |
because the people who do it like it and what right do you have to tell them they can't? |
You didn't answer the question. I will ask it again. Other than medicinal, what purpose does it serve? What are the positive aspects of making marijuana a legal recreational drug? Why should the system go out of its way to change the law just because “some people like it?” Currently many of us believe that the negative affects of marijuana far out way your right to smoke it. Until there is a collective decision to make marijuana legal you and others will just have to deal. |
Making drugs illegal makes drug dealers RICH. The profits make them willing to kill over it. The Colombian cartels, Al Qaeda, the Mexican Mafia, our own "street" gangs get their money and power by selling drugs. The people who get busted are low/middle level dealers who are easily replaced. It overcrowds our jails to the point that, with mandatory sentencing for drug offenses, our prisons sometimes have to release violent criminals early. Plus about 60% of Americans have tried it at one time or another. Should 60% of America go to jail? If somebody smokes a joint in their home, eats a pizza while watching Comedy Central, and goes to bed, should they go to jail? How many people do you know who have tried it? I can count only a handfull of people I know who HAVEN'T tried it. So, should they all go to jail? It is not a decision whether it is good or bad, but whether it is more a effective deterent to regulate, tax, and educate or simply say it is illegal.
Take the example of cigarettes. Fewer and fewer people smoke cigarettes every year because it is regulated, taxed, and people are educated as to the negative effects. Yet, adults can still choose to make an informed decision, despite all of the risks that they have been warned about, to partake in this product at their own risk. If they get cancer and die, it is their choice and responsibility. Personal freedom and personal responsibility is what our country is about. I will always choose freedom as a matter of principle. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | what is the purpose of making chocolate legal? or movies? or anything people enjoy? because there's no logical reason not to make it legal. the positive aspects of marijuana other than medicinal is that people enjoy it. it brings happiness to those who enjoy it. and it relaxes a lot of people.
let me state for the record that i don't smoke pot. i used to but i stopped enjoying it.
why should the system go out of its way to legalize it? it seems like the system has no problem going out of its way to spend B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S of dollars to try and stop it even though they can't. you know how much money has been spent on the drug war...a war with no results? if it were legalized, and taxed (just like tobacco)..not only would we save B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S of dollars by cancelling the futile drug war, but our system would actually EARN money to spend on more productive issues.
i believe it should be legalized because i believe in freedom. i think people should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses personal safety. you have no right to tell someone else what they can and cannot smoke. neither do i. neither does the government. that's not freedom, that's control. that's an outside body making a moral decision (not a health related one) for me. i don't like that.
as for the 'negative effects' which you speak of (or actually, which you failed to actually mention)... if you would like to pull up the data of marijuana related fatalities and then compare them with alcohol related fatalities, tobacco related fatalities, and automobile related fatalities i think you'll realize that you don't really have an argument. that is, unless you are advocating the ban of alcohol, tobacco and cars. just because something is potentially dangerous when abused doesn't mean that government should make it illegal for those who choose to use it responsibly. |
agree. It really isn't an issue about drugs at all. It is about freedom and responsibility. Educating yourself and making decisions, and then being responsible enough to deal with the consequences. If you eat cheeseburgers and fries every day, and die of a heart attack at 40, does that mean we should ban hamburgers and arrest Ronald McDonald? Silly, I know, but cheeseburgers and fries are bad for you and have killed alot more people than marijuana. Yet you can enjoy In-N-Out once in a while and still lead a healthy life. It is not the consumption of hamburgersw that is a problem, it is the abuse of them. And even still, if you eat, drink, or smoke yourself to death, that is your choice to do so. |
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LALfan4life
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Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | LALfan4life wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | | LALfan4life wrote: | What is the point of having marijuana legalized? Isn’t the damage caused by alcohol and cigarettes enough?
I can understand using the drug for medicinal purposes but I don’t see a positive purpose for recreational use. |
because the people who do it like it and what right do you have to tell them they can't? |
You didn't answer the question. I will ask it again. Other than medicinal, what purpose does it serve? What are the positive aspects of making marijuana a legal recreational drug? Why should the system go out of its way to change the law just because “some people like it?” Currently many of us believe that the negative affects of marijuana far out way your right to smoke it. Until there is a collective decision to make marijuana legal you and others will just have to deal. |
Making drugs illegal makes drug dealers RICH. The profits make them willing to kill over it. The Colombian cartels, Al Qaeda, the Mexican Mafia, our own "street" gangs get their money and power by selling drugs. The people who get busted are low/middle level dealers who are easily replaced. It overcrowds our jails to the point that, with mandatory sentencing for drug offenses, our prisons sometimes have to release violent criminals early. Plus about 60% of Americans have tried it at one time or another. Should 60% of America go to jail? If somebody smokes a joint in their home, eats a pizza while watching Comedy Central, and goes to bed, should they go to jail? How many people do you know who have tried it? I can count only a handfull of people I know who HAVEN'T tried it. So, should they all go to jail? It is not a decision whether it is good or bad, but whether it is more a effective deterent to regulate, tax, and educate or simply say it is illegal.
Take the example of cigarettes. Fewer and fewer people smoke cigarettes every year because it is regulated, taxed, and people are educated as to the negative effects. Yet, adults can still choose to make an informed decision, despite all of the risks that they have been warned about, to partake in this product at their own risk. If they get cancer and die, it is their choice and responsibility. Personal freedom and personal responsibility is what our country is about. I will always choose freedom as a matter of principle. |
Personal freedom is wonderful as long as it doesn’t infringe on others. Unfortunately we live in a world of stupid, selfish and irresponsible people; shockingly enough some of them are addicts. In large part laws are created because of them. If society can be guaranteed that the drug user will use their substance and “go to bed” we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now. But the reality is it is not just about the user making a choice that will only affect them. Addicts affect everyone around them and they do not have the right to that. I see no useful purpose to change our laws. We will be trading a reduction in illegal sales of drugs for an increase in addictions. Which in turn becomes everyone’s problem. No thank you. |
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LALfan4life
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Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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da ocho wrote:
| Quote: | | what is the purpose of making chocolate legal? or movies? or anything people enjoy? because there's no logical reason not to make it legal. the positive aspects of marijuana other than medicinal is that people enjoy it. it brings happiness to those who enjoy it. and it relaxes a lot of people. |
Chocolate and movies are not gateway drugs. Chocolate and movies do not destroy families. Chocolate and movies might make you fat however
da ocho wrote:
| Quote: | | let me state for the record that i don't smoke pot. i used to but i stopped enjoying it. |
Thank god
da ocho wrote:
| Quote: | | why should the system go out of its way to legalize it? it seems like the system has no problem going out of its way to spend B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S of dollars to try and stop it even though they can't. you know how much money has been spent on the drug war...a war with no results? if it were legalized, and taxed (just like tobacco)..not only would we save B-I-L-L-I-O-N-S of dollars by cancelling the futile drug war, but our system would actually EARN money to spend on more productive issues. |
So you think legalizing it will make our current woes disappear? I say not really, we will then spend the billions you speak of cleaning up our society as a result of all the addicts running around. Like we don't already have enough.
da ocho wrote:
| Quote: | | i believe it should be legalized because i believe in freedom. i think people should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone elses personal safety. you have no right to tell someone else what they can and cannot smoke. neither do i. neither does the government. that's not freedom, that's control. that's an outside body making a moral decision (not a health related one) for me. i don't like that. |
You are willing to rely on someone high on crap to make decisions that wouldn't infringe on anyone else? You are a brave man.
da ocho wrote:
| Quote: | | as for the 'negative effects' which you speak of (or actually, which you failed to actually mention)... if you would like to pull up the data of marijuana related fatalities and then compare them with alcohol related fatalities, tobacco related fatalities, and automobile related fatalities i think you'll realize that you don't really have an argument. that is, unless you are advocating the ban of alcohol, tobacco and cars. just because something is potentially dangerous when abused doesn't mean that government should make it illegal for those who choose to use it responsibly. |
Ever heard of a drug facility? They treat all kinds of drug additions including marijuana. And I assume you know that many users first drug was marijuana?
Something tells me we are never going to agree on this one. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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we won't agree on it because you are so far removed from reality.
there would obviously be restrictions on legalizing marijuana. the negative effects that you say would harm other people would be regulated i.e. not being able to drive a car while high. you completely ignore the fact that we have a substance called alcohol that causes WAY more negative effects yet is still legal. are you advocating the abolition of alcohol. study history and learn what happened when we tried to do that.
you are for strong gov't regulation into people's lives. you want two things. 1. for you to be able to have a say in what people do and how they choose to live their lives.
2. for government to be able to tell people what to do and how to live their lives.
i'll take choice and personal responsibility.
put the stuff out there along with the health facts and warnings. if people abuse it, they'll be punished. same as anything else.
by banning it you:
-limit people's freedom and make our society less free
- empower, enrich, and make gangsters into millionaires
- limit the advancement of the substance, stopping qualified scientists from learning how to engineer it and make it better.
- spend billions of dollars that could go to actually helping people. instead this money will go to imprisoning people who have hurt nobody.
oh and as far as chocolate not hurting people...just making them fat. you may want to educate yourself on what the #1 killer is in america. you also might want to educate yourself on the growing epidemic called obseity that is killing millions every year. you should also educate yourself on the history of marijuana and why it is legal in the first place.
making pot illegal doesn't stop it. the negative effects of keeping it illegal far outweight the negative effects of smoking a joint in the privacy of one's home. hurting nobody. bothering nobody. |
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LALfan4life
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | we won't agree on it because you are so far removed from reality.
there would obviously be restrictions on legalizing marijuana. the negative effects that you say would harm other people would be regulated i.e. not being able to drive a car while high. you completely ignore the fact that we have a substance called alcohol that causes WAY more negative effects yet is still legal. are you advocating the abolition of alcohol. study history and learn what happened when we tried to do that.
you are for strong gov't regulation into people's lives. you want two things. 1. for you to be able to have a say in what people do and how they choose to live their lives.
2. for government to be able to tell people what to do and how to live their lives.
i'll take choice and personal responsibility.
put the stuff out there along with the health facts and warnings. if people abuse it, they'll be punished. same as anything else.
by banning it you:
-limit people's freedom and make our society less free
- empower, enrich, and make gangsters into millionaires
- limit the advancement of the substance, stopping qualified scientists from learning how to engineer it and make it better.
- spend billions of dollars that could go to actually helping people. instead this money will go to imprisoning people who have hurt nobody.
oh and as far as chocolate not hurting people...just making them fat. you may want to educate yourself on what the #1 killer is in america. you also might want to educate yourself on the growing epidemic called obseity that is killing millions every year. you should also educate yourself on the history of marijuana and why it is legal in the first place.
making pot illegal doesn't stop it. the negative effects of keeping it illegal far outweight the negative effects of smoking a joint in the privacy of one's home. hurting nobody. bothering nobody. |
Now you want to equate eating chocolate and using drugs? You sure I'm the one who is "so far removed from reality?" How silly.
Speaking of educating. You might want to educate yourself on how many young people are affected by the use of marijuana. Young men and women who smoke marijuana are more likely to turn to harder drugs, alcohol and unprotected sex, which means- sexually transmitted disease, unwanted pregnancies, rape, abuse and death. They are more likely to struggle and or drop out of school. And this is just the fact on young people. I didn't discuss the effects regarding parents who smoke pot.
But, yes I know none of this matter as long as some are free to.... whatever it is you said. |
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ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53924
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| LALfan4life wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | we won't agree on it because you are so far removed from reality.
there would obviously be restrictions on legalizing marijuana. the negative effects that you say would harm other people would be regulated i.e. not being able to drive a car while high. you completely ignore the fact that we have a substance called alcohol that causes WAY more negative effects yet is still legal. are you advocating the abolition of alcohol. study history and learn what happened when we tried to do that.
you are for strong gov't regulation into people's lives. you want two things. 1. for you to be able to have a say in what people do and how they choose to live their lives.
2. for government to be able to tell people what to do and how to live their lives.
i'll take choice and personal responsibility.
put the stuff out there along with the health facts and warnings. if people abuse it, they'll be punished. same as anything else.
by banning it you:
-limit people's freedom and make our society less free
- empower, enrich, and make gangsters into millionaires
- limit the advancement of the substance, stopping qualified scientists from learning how to engineer it and make it better.
- spend billions of dollars that could go to actually helping people. instead this money will go to imprisoning people who have hurt nobody.
oh and as far as chocolate not hurting people...just making them fat. you may want to educate yourself on what the #1 killer is in america. you also might want to educate yourself on the growing epidemic called obseity that is killing millions every year. you should also educate yourself on the history of marijuana and why it is legal in the first place.
making pot illegal doesn't stop it. the negative effects of keeping it illegal far outweight the negative effects of smoking a joint in the privacy of one's home. hurting nobody. bothering nobody. |
Now you want to equate eating chocolate and using drugs? You sure I'm the one who is "so far removed from reality?" How silly.
Speaking of educating. You might want to educate yourself on how many young people are affected by the use of marijuana. Young men and women who smoke marijuana are more likely to turn to harder drugs, alcohol and unprotected sex, which means- sexually transmitted disease, unwanted pregnancies, rape, abuse and death. They are more likely to struggle and or drop out of school. And this is just the fact on young people. I didn't discuss the effects parents who smoke pot.
But, yes I know none of this matter as long as some are free to.... whatever it is you said. |
so let me get this stragiht. if you smoke pot, you will get STDs, you will rape people, and you will die. if you can show me one study that confirms any of this i will concede.
your ramblings are completly absurd. you make up facts and assumptions and pass them on as facts. nothing you said is grounded in fact or data. they are your personal opinions that have no merit.
comparing chocolate to using drugs isn't as far removed as you think. heart disease, high cholesterol kill way more many people than marijuana. you have done zero research.
all these points you bring up about dropping out of school, sex, rape, pregnancy aren't backed up by anything. they are the ramblings of a madman. there are millions of people who smoke pot and never do any other drugs. the concept of gateway drugs is preposterous. have you no other info other than the DARE program? alcohol is also listed as THE MOST POTENT gateway drug. you neglect to mention this in any of your loosely construted, misinformed opinions that you pass off as fact. alcohol is legal...what do you expect to do about this?
at the end of the day, no matter how many points you make that have no factual background...you want to be able to dictate to other people how they live their lives based on your own personal set of morals. that doesn't sound like freedom to me. there is nothing wrong with not smoking pot (i don't) but insisting that others don't based on your whack, nonsensical beliefs is unamerican. |
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LALfan4life
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| da ocho wrote: | | LALfan4life wrote: | | da ocho wrote: | we won't agree on it because you are so far removed from reality.
there would obviously be restrictions on legalizing marijuana. the negative effects that you say would harm other people would be regulated i.e. not being able to drive a car while high. you completely ignore the fact that we have a substance called alcohol that causes WAY more negative effects yet is still legal. are you advocating the abolition of alcohol. study history and learn what happened when we tried to do that.
you are for strong gov't regulation into people's lives. you want two things. 1. for you to be able to have a say in what people do and how they choose to live their lives.
2. for government to be able to tell people what to do and how to live their lives.
i'll take choice and personal responsibility.
put the stuff out there along with the health facts and warnings. if people abuse it, they'll be punished. same as anything else.
by banning it you:
-limit people's freedom and make our society less free
- empower, enrich, and make gangsters into millionaires
- limit the advancement of the substance, stopping qualified scientists from learning how to engineer it and make it better.
- spend billions of dollars that could go to actually helping people. instead this money will go to imprisoning people who have hurt nobody.
oh and as far as chocolate not hurting people...just making them fat. you may want to educate yourself on what the #1 killer is in america. you also might want to educate yourself on the growing epidemic called obseity that is killing millions every year. you should also educate yourself on the history of marijuana and why it is legal in the first place.
making pot illegal doesn't stop it. the negative effects of keeping it illegal far outweight the negative effects of smoking a joint in the privacy of one's home. hurting nobody. bothering nobody. |
Now you want to equate eating chocolate and using drugs? You sure I'm the one who is "so far removed from reality?" How silly.
Speaking of educating. You might want to educate yourself on how many young people are affected by the use of marijuana. Young men and women who smoke marijuana are more likely to turn to harder drugs, alcohol and unprotected sex, which means- sexually transmitted disease, unwanted pregnancies, rape, abuse and death. They are more likely to struggle and or drop out of school. And this is just the fact on young people. I didn't discuss the effects parents who smoke pot.
But, yes I know none of this matter as long as some are free to.... whatever it is you said. |
so let me get this stragiht. if you smoke pot, you will get STDs, you will rape people, and you will die. if you can show me one study that confirms any of this i will concede.
your ramblings are completly absurd. you make up facts and assumptions and pass them on as facts. nothing you said is grounded in fact or data. they are your personal opinions that have no merit.
comparing chocolate to using drugs isn't as far removed as you think. heart disease, high cholesterol kill way more many people than marijuana. you have done zero research.
all these points you bring up about dropping out of school, sex, rape, pregnancy aren't backed up by anything. they are the ramblings of a madman. there are millions of people who smoke pot and never do any other drugs. the concept of gateway drugs is preposterous. have you no other info other than the DARE program? alcohol is also listed as THE MOST POTENT gateway drug. you neglect to mention this in any of your loosely construted, misinformed opinions that you pass off as fact. alcohol is legal...what do you expect to do about this?
at the end of the day, no matter how many points you make that have no factual background...you want to be able to dictate to other people how they live their lives based on your own personal set of morals. that doesn't sound like freedom to me. there is nothing wrong with not smoking pot (i don't) but insisting that others don't based on your whack, nonsensical beliefs is unamerican. |
Go check out Psych Info and type in Marijuana and the effects on high school age children. Marijuana is no damn joke and especially these days when the joints don’t even come pure anymore.
It is unfortunate that you can't hold a conversation without your immature attacks. Go educate yourself on drugs and how to hold an adult conversation I have educated you enough for one day.
Good luck the FACTS can be had if you want it. |
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Nudizl_Forshizl
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 974
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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geez, the quality of the 'con' arguments have really deteriorated since I last checked in.
No one is saying that the bionic doesn't have negative consequences - physically, socially, or emotionally. It does. They vary from person to person, from negligible to potentially devastating.
Compare these side affects to those of some of the drugs which are legal (i.e. alcohol, nicoteen, caffeine...) and one quickly finds that point moot.
Weed a gateway drug? Junk Science. I can use the same regression analysis to show that a more effective gateway drug is alcohol, as 8 mentioned above. In fact, the true gateway drug is....wait for it...caffeine. One may show a virtual 100% correlation to people that use/abuse caffeine and then later in life move on to harder drugs, like weed. If only they knew better!! 
Anyway, to make this thread a little more interesting, I'll give you a legitimate point to argue, since there seems to be a dearth of those lately:
We shouldn't make weed legal, because if it doesn't work out, we won't be able to make it illegal again. It is extremely difficuly (less so in recent times, but overall still difficult) to take away liberties, once bestowed. If some unforeseen circumstances arise and we find it necessary to outlaw weed again, we may not be able to.
Prohibition anyone? |
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