2006 NBA Draft Thread - Workouts/Prospects/Scouting Reports. With the 26th pick of the NBA Draft, the Los Angeles Lakers select...
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LakerJam
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject:

buphead wrote:
While I think he could be OK for us (even being an SC fan I'll admit it) there will be at least 4 or 5 guys there at 26 that I'd rather have at 26 ahead of Farmar.


That's exactly what I think about Farmar. Not the worse pick, but not who I'd want to take unless all the good stuff was already gone.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject:

Mark Hurlbarf, Esq. wrote:
You guys have to realize this about Farmar. Do you think he really has that great of a vertical? He actually can't jump that high, but he gets a few more upward inches by flapping his ears in the air.


The ear flapping is hilarious, but on a serious note, Farmar showed his 42" verticle in several different workouts, so it's no fluke. Dude really CAN jump out of the building ...much to my shock.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote:
James White reminds me of Scottie Pippen, but a better dunker and athlete....

http://www.nba.com/history/draft_video.html

-go to Scottie Pippen, you can also look at Kobe's.....

even though i couldn't watch the scottie video, because its buffering to often. But

lets tell the truth, White is all Hi Jumps. that usually equals, rebounds, dunks, and a block shot(since he's not a super tall guy, and he doesn't have great shot blocking timing.) not bad. But his weakness showed in that small stint showing him dribble. He can't dribble well enough to make a move off the dribble if he has to. That means he's devean george without the 3 point shot. probably more ready to dunk on someone in a perfect scenario. but how often will that present itself within the triangle offense? not often. He's a poor mans A.I.(not lil A.I. big A.I.)

Sorry, dont need that. now Douby on the other hand is a tough call. because he is a rather thin guy, and not tall but not short. meanining he would be a nice size guard at the PG spot in the triangle. Now his shooting ability is definitely there. no doubt about it. his scoring ability is there as well. I'm not worried about his defense. as long as he's better then Chucky atkins. it doesn't matter much. The thing that worries most is if he's more prone to taking one to many shots, when kobe should have the ball. I will say this. Would rather have a passive guy, that might do an old luke walton, and pass up a wide open game winner? or would you rather have a guy who might shoot a bit to much, but will never shy away from shooting the last second wide open jumper on a kobe kick out? I would go with the later.

Worse case scenario, he's Eddie house (offensive spark off the pine.). on another note, perhaps he's a shorter Quentin Ross which means good defense at the pg spot, and a reliable role player that can hit an open shot. he actually had a similar scenario to Q.Ross, start putting up all the point because other main guys on his college team were out with injuries. turned up his de is last year. The only difference between Douby and Ross, is that Douby is by far the better shooter.

as stated Douby could end up becoming jason Terry one day. Didn't we say we needed Jason terry, not just for his vet savvy but for his scoring mentality and Jump shooting ability? Yep we sure did.


A poor man's Andre Iguodala is nothing to sneeze at with the 26th pick. I'd be happy with Douby, too. There are several players I'd be very happy with and several that I would absolutely HATE.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
Mark Hurlbarf, Esq. wrote:
You guys have to realize this about Farmar. Do you think he really has that great of a vertical? He actually can't jump that high, but he gets a few more upward inches by flapping his ears in the air.


The ear flapping is hilarious, but on a serious note, Farmar showed his 42" verticle in several different workouts, so it's no fluke. Dude really CAN jump out of the building ...much to my shock.


And Luke Jackson has a 37" vertical. Never shows it in game.

Point? Measurements only go so far.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject:

If JJ Reddicks stock is falling, would you guys do this trade?

Mihm + 51st for New Orleans 15th pick? I doubt hell last till our 26th pick.

Or better yet.... Mihm + 26th for #15th + JR Smith?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject:

KobeButler wrote:
If JJ Reddicks stock is falling, would you guys do this trade?

Mihm + 51st for New Orleans 15th pick? I doubt hell last till our 26th pick.


You're actually suggesting trading UP for JJ Reddick?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject:

KobeButler wrote:
If JJ Reddicks stock is falling, would you guys do this trade?

Mihm + 51st for New Orleans 15th pick? I doubt hell last till our 26th pick.


What is wrong with you?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
KobeButler wrote:
If JJ Reddicks stock is falling, would you guys do this trade?

Mihm + 51st for New Orleans 15th pick? I doubt hell last till our 26th pick.


You're actually suggesting trading UP for JJ Reddick?



Whats wrong with Reddick?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:31 pm    Post subject:

KobeButler wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
KobeButler wrote:
If JJ Reddicks stock is falling, would you guys do this trade?

Mihm + 51st for New Orleans 15th pick? I doubt hell last till our 26th pick.


You're actually suggesting trading UP for JJ Reddick?



Whats wrong with Reddick?


He has a worrisome back injury, on top of the fact he won't be more than a Steve Kerr at the next level...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:34 pm    Post subject:

JimmyPage wrote:
KobeButler wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
KobeButler wrote:
If JJ Reddicks stock is falling, would you guys do this trade?

Mihm + 51st for New Orleans 15th pick? I doubt hell last till our 26th pick.


You're actually suggesting trading UP for JJ Reddick?



Whats wrong with Reddick?


He has a worrisome back injury, on top of the fact he won't be more than a Steve Kerr at the next level...


Exactly.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject:

KobeButler wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
KobeButler wrote:
If JJ Reddicks stock is falling, would you guys do this trade?

Mihm + 51st for New Orleans 15th pick? I doubt hell last till our 26th pick.


You're actually suggesting trading UP for JJ Reddick?



Whats wrong with Reddick?


if there's resistance to douby why do you think people would want reddick? douby is just about as good of a shooter and has more pg and defensive skills. only think holding jj up is name recognition, he went to a big school. no reason to trade up for him. if he fell down to 26 i wouldnt even take him.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject:

If Reddick dropped to 26 would it be different?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject:

KobeButler wrote:
If Reddick dropped to 26 would it be different?


Only if the Lakers had already traded one of the future 2nd Round picks for another player, such as White, Ager, or Shannon Brown.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
Why this love-fest with Douby? Have you learned NOTHING of trying to turn a SG into a PG just "because the Triangle doesn't require a true PG"? Have we not suffered enough using this moronic theory of SG as a defacto-PG. If a guy doesn't have the skills to be a PG, he can't play the position. Simple as that.


Huh? Phil has won 9 championships in 10 Finals trips with SGs who play PG in the triangle. What happened when we had a real PG in Payton? He hated the offense because he couldn't dominate the ball the way a true PG typically does.

The reality is that it's not hot air - the triangle really DOES require a PG who has a SG mentality to score. Whether or not the PG is Douby is beside the point. The triangle offense is specifically referred to as a 2-guard front because of that fact. That's why it's different, because every guy on the team is expected to be able to pass, and the ball is never supposed to stay with one player for more than 2 seconds at a time. It's actually why players like Francis, Arenas, B Davis, and yes, even Douby, would fit well in it - because they're scorers who can pass. Personally, I don't like Francis or Davis, but I recognize that their mentality as scorers who can pass are precisely why they'd fit here in this system (okay, I take it back as to BD, who has grown on me with all his Kobe/Lakers love...).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
magic_bryant wrote:
Why this love-fest with Douby? Have you learned NOTHING of trying to turn a SG into a PG just "because the Triangle doesn't require a true PG"? Have we not suffered enough using this moronic theory of SG as a defacto-PG. If a guy doesn't have the skills to be a PG, he can't play the position. Simple as that.


Huh? Phil has won 9 championships in 10 Finals trips with SGs who play PG in the triangle. What happened when we had a real PG in Payton? He hated the offense because he couldn't dominate the ball the way a true PG typically does.

The reality is that it's not hot air - the triangle really DOES require a PG who has a SG mentality to score. Whether or not the PG is Douby is beside the point. The triangle offense is specifically referred to as a 2-guard front because of that fact. That's why it's different, because every guy on the team is expected to be able to pass, and the ball is never supposed to stay with one player for more than 2 seconds at a time. It's actually why player Francis, Arenas, B Davis, and yes, even Douby, would fit well in it. Personally, I don't like Francis or Davis, but I recognize that their mentality as scorers who can pass are precisely why they'd fit here.


That's the key thing. Their MUST be some level of PG skills. An unselfish attitude is a MUST at 1. That's why you'll NEVER see Francis, Baron, or Marbury in a triangle offense. Those are all 3 SG in PG bodies. The "SG in a PG body" only works in the Triangle if the player has the ability to thrive as an unselfish player who can be content to hit the open jumper and throw the swing pass.

Douby, B-Diddy, Francis, Starbury, etc are NOT fits.

Ager, Shannon Brown, Marcus Banks, etc can play the Triangle 1, because they have the unselfish, aggressive attitude.

btw, we do realize that Bill Sharmon one a title in - what 72' - with a ball-dominant PG running the Triangle, correct?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject:

Hell, you say Phil's won 9 rings with "SG playing PG" and I disagree. Phil's won 9 rings without ball-dominant PGs, sure. But they weren't SG. The only player you can say was a 2 was Harper, but he was a great player in his earlier days and ran some Point even then. Douby is a 2. A ball-dominant player who will NEVER be happy with just getting shots "within the flow", and when he isn't getting his shots, the rest of his game will suffer. Majorly.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject:

MB, if you're in the backcourt and you're not a PG, what are you? You're a SG.

It’s true that Phil hasn’t had his PG s causing trouble by hogging the ball when MJ or Kobe should have it (though in L.A., Kobe was the defacto PG, not Fisher. Fisher was essentially the SG in the sense that he stood around waiting to shoot on a drive and kick), but that was more the result of the talent creating the line of hierchy. Michael, then Pippen, then ... Shaq, then Kobe then... None of those other guys would ever presume to make those legends play 2nd fiddle to them. I don’t even think that’s a realistic concern, though I get the ideal of it. Ideally, whoever your best players are, are the ones who typically get the priority on shots.

Point is, you need a guy with a scorer’s mentality who can pass in that backcourt with Kobe. No guy we draft is going to walk in that door and think he gets priority over Kobe. It’s just not a worry in my mind. I’ll tell you this, though, I’d rather have a guy taking an ill advised shot than being hesitant to take an open one - and drafting a scorer to be our 6th man sure wouldn’t keep me up at night.

That said, I’m not pushing Douby. I’m just saying that having a PG who thinks to score is a good thing for this team and this system, whoever that PG is. Also, I do agree with you that there has to be an element of unselfishness in our guards.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject:

i think all too often people mistake the triangle for the bulls. they feel we need to have michael jordan ala kobe. pippen ala lamar. a rebounder ala rodman. a pgish player like harper. The triangle isnt the chicago bulls teams of the past. thats merely a lineup that worked well in it. what are the roles of the players?

out of the point guard we need someone who is capable of playing defense, capable of rotating onto and defending shooting guards at times, can hit open shots as well as take it to the basket, bring the ball up the floor, and move well away from the ball while making solid cuts.

whether or not they are a pg or shooting guard really doesnt matter. they usually need size to see over the defense.

anyways. douby can hit open or contest shots with deadly accuracy, take it to the hole, has good handles and can play decent defense and has PROVEN his ability to do so.

james white however can hit open shots sometimes, can handle the ball well, is taller than douby and more athletic. he also is more unselfish. but he hasnt proven his ability to do anything at a high level let alone anything consistently.

sure quincy douby took a lot of shots, but he needed to. he was on a terrible team and merely wanted to win. same reasoning behind kobe taking a ton of shots, same reasoning behind dwade taking a ton of shots in the finals. he hasn't come out and made ridiculous claims, he's said that he merely wants to make it on an nba roster, and he'd die to be playing alongside kobe or lebron. he is a person who will do anything to win i think thats the kind of attitude we need out of more people on our team.

thats the same attitude that sam cassel has, he just wants to win, whether thats through him or someone else doesnt matter.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:38 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
Why this love-fest with Douby? Have you learned NOTHING of trying to turn a SG into a PG just "because the Triangle doesn't require a true PG"? Have we not suffered enough using this moronic theory of SG as a defacto-PG. If a guy doesn't have the skills to be a PG, he can't play the position. Simple as that.

the reason for the love fest, is because its the Triangle. I keep saying this over and over. The tri-offense is not like any normal offense. you can't assume a great pass first pg that has a questionable jumper at best, will work at the pg spot. WHY? because 1, he wont have the ball in his hands long enough to create off the dribble. the tri doesn't work like that. ask gary payton.

The only thing you've ever seen out of the triangle with successful teams (shaq/kobe lakers, Mjay Bulls) is what? Older less athletic Ron Harper (Shooting guard, with zero pg skills when he first went to chicago, ron looked horrible with the bulls). But he worked in the long haul. Why? because he was a scoring threat not just from 3 point land, but because if you tried to close out on the wide open 3, after triple teaming mjay. Harper would simply dribble around you for the easy 2.

Steve Kerr? pure shooter. if you triple Mjay, and you leave kerr. its going in half the time. a kerr 3 is like a shaq dunk. Count it, and walk the other way.

Who is Douby according to the Bios/Videos/stats. He's a mix between kerr and Ron. a tad taller then steve, but shorter and smaller then ron. can shoot better then ron did coming out, but not as good as kerr(we dont think), but can score off the dribble like ron(but without the Ron body/height, wont try to overly force it inside).

Douby is a mix. bottome line is this. We would pick up J.terry in a heartbeat if we could. and most wouldn't have a problem. Who is J.terry? a Short Shooting guard. just like Douby. no difference. his PG skills are still questionable. Why? because you saw him pre-dallas. and he looked like all the other short shooting guards with out people to pass it to aka He looked like a hot dog.

These are the PG's of the future. their all Short shooting guards nowadays. as good as nash's passing is. He is still a scorer. John Stockton is retired my friends. I would love to see him again. but it look as if that era of PG is done with. that means you have to keep up with the pack. Thats all I'm saying.

here's the scenario for the most part(lakers dont get breakaways all that much. so we're talking half court hoop. lets say we draft White.

Kobe gets trippled as usual, kicks it out to White. the defense knows white will dunk on them so they stand back to cusion his first step..... CLANK. Kobe shakes head, tisk tisk.

--
We Draft Douby or a guy like Douby. Kobe gets trippled, kicks it out to Douby. the spurs read the report, they close out on Douby well. Douby up fakes, and goes to the whole, Duncan recovers waiting to take the charge....... FLOATER,, its good. same scenario. spurs dont close out........ SWISHHH, and a timeout by Coach pop.

now notice i didn't say anything about either of those guys making an extra pass. why? because neither of those guys are passers(maybe douby could be, but he isn't today). But the bottom line is what. 1 guy can produce in a number of scenarios. because he's used to it.

Lets add one more thing. Lets say kobe gets injured and misses 20 games( all together). It will be LO all alone, and a little bit of smush. If you have White. it better be fast break or a backdoor lob pass. just like Andre Iggie from the 76ers. otherwise he will suck atleast his first two years with the lakers, that is.

If we draft Douby or a guy like Douby, kobe goes down for 20 games. Douby can turn on his scoring mode. See White doesn't have a scoring mode. at least not yet. but Douby does. we have a problem at the guard spots in general. we need shooters and back up scorers for kobe. Why do you think we drafted Von wafer? Because if he could get it together. He would be our Backup Scorer, and Shooter to tag team with kobe in the backcourt. We want a scorer at the PG spot. not a pass first guard. now of course if you give me luther head. end of discussion. because he's a special kind of guy that fits the tri like a glove. great shooter, athletic, but is not a hot dog. but will still shoot and hit and open 3. those guys dont exist. its usually either or. hot dog, or scary cat. or all athletic and no jumpshop/no take moves.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject:

douby huh? i don't know a lot about him but i don't think having another player with a scoring mentality is all that bad...having said that, the reason i would prefer white/collins at 26 is mostly for their defensive potential...that's why i'm hoping for bobby jones as well...2 way wings that can guard 1,2,3...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote:
James White reminds me of Scottie Pippen, but a better dunker and athlete....

http://www.nba.com/history/draft_video.html

-go to Scottie Pippen, you can also look at Kobe's.....

even though i couldn't watch the scottie video, because its buffering to often. But

lets tell the truth, White is all Hi Jumps. that usually equals, rebounds, dunks, and a block shot(since he's not a super tall guy, and he doesn't have great shot blocking timing.) not bad. But his weakness showed in that small stint showing him dribble. He can't dribble well enough to make a move off the dribble if he has to. That means he's devean george without the 3 point shot. probably more ready to dunk on someone in a perfect scenario. but how often will that present itself within the triangle offense? not often. He's a poor mans A.I.(not lil A.I. big A.I.)

Sorry, dont need that. now Douby on the other hand is a tough call. because he is a rather thin guy, and not tall but not short. meanining he would be a nice size guard at the PG spot in the triangle. Now his shooting ability is definitely there. no doubt about it. his scoring ability is there as well. I'm not worried about his defense. as long as he's better then Chucky atkins. it doesn't matter much. The thing that worries most is if he's more prone to taking one to many shots, when kobe should have the ball. I will say this. Would rather have a passive guy, that might do an old luke walton, and pass up a wide open game winner? or would you rather have a guy who might shoot a bit to much, but will never shy away from shooting the last second wide open jumper on a kobe kick out? I would go with the later.

Worse case scenario, he's Eddie house (offensive spark off the pine.). on another note, perhaps he's a shorter Quentin Ross which means good defense at the pg spot, and a reliable role player that can hit an open shot. he actually had a similar scenario to Q.Ross, start putting up all the point because other main guys on his college team were out with injuries. turned up his de is last year. The only difference between Douby and Ross, is that Douby is by far the better shooter.

as stated Douby could end up becoming jason Terry one day. Didn't we say we needed Jason terry, not just for his vet savvy but for his scoring mentality and Jump shooting ability? Yep we sure did.


A poor man's Andre Iguodala is nothing to sneeze at with the 26th pick. I'd be happy with Douby, too. There are several players I'd be very happy with and several that I would absolutely HATE.


Laker jam. think abou it. A Poor mans Iguodala is what? Every other street baller thats 6'5 and up. quiet as kept. at least they can handle the ball(illegally or legally). I mean, if you play enough ball in your local area. you know at least a hand full of high fly acts, that can grab a board, get out on the break and take off. The issue is this. Andre is a Solid dude. White doesn't look nearly as built as Andre did when he first came out. that plays a role in getting to the basket, finishing if it isn't a dunk, as well as injuries, because all you do is jump on people.

Dont get me wrong I love a good leaper. and if you can put em in the right situation. he would be great for us. but I'm sorry, i dont want any more D.georges aka I can dunk, learned how to shoot, play good de, but can't make a move off the dribble to save my life. can't post up to save my life. and guess what, White is not 6'9.
Some people really think white can play back up SG. you got to be kidding me. at SG, his a homeless man's Ruben patterson.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject:

jam - think we might be out of luck on jones...according to sky, lakers aren't interested in either jones or adams...also, he thinks the lakers order of preference for the 26th pick is "White, Shawne Williams, Jordan Farmar, Maurice Ager, Shannon Brown"...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject:

nbadraft.net has us taking mardy Collins at 26 now...

that wouldn't be a bad move in my opinion... as system guys with good size and intangibles to run the triangle offense.
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magic_bryant
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:12 pm    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
MB, if you're in the backcourt and you're not a PG, what are you? You're a SG.

It’s true that Phil hasn’t had his PG s causing trouble by hogging the ball when MJ or Kobe should have it (though in L.A., Kobe was the defacto PG, not Fisher. Fisher was essentially the SG in the sense that he stood around waiting to shoot on a drive and kick), but that was more the result of the talent creating the line of hierchy. Michael, then Pippen, then ... Shaq, then Kobe then... None of those other guys would ever presume to make those legends play 2nd fiddle to them. I don’t even think that’s a realistic concern, though I get the ideal of it. Ideally, whoever your best players are, are the ones who typically get the priority on shots.

Point is, you need a guy with a scorer’s mentality who can pass in that backcourt with Kobe. No guy we draft is going to walk in that door and think he gets priority over Kobe. It’s just not a worry in my mind. I’ll tell you this, though, I’d rather have a guy taking an ill advised shot than being hesitant to take an open one - and drafting a scorer to be our 6th man sure wouldn’t keep me up at night.

That said, I’m not pushing Douby. I’m just saying that having a PG who thinks to score is a good thing for this team and this system, whoever that PG is. Also, I do agree with you that there has to be an element of unselfishness in our guards.


Smush Parker looks to score. Would be a very good PG off the bench.

So, where's the need for Douby?
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loseyourname
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject:

magic_bryant wrote:
Hell, you say Phil's won 9 rings with "SG playing PG" and I disagree. Phil's won 9 rings without ball-dominant PGs, sure. But they weren't SG. The only player you can say was a 2 was Harper, but he was a great player in his earlier days and ran some Point even then. Douby is a 2. A ball-dominant player who will NEVER be happy with just getting shots "within the flow", and when he isn't getting his shots, the rest of his game will suffer. Majorly.


You don't like the guy and that's fine, but you're stretching to conclude this. The only part of his game that suffered when he was forced to play point, ironically, was his shot. He's much better at creating his own shot than anyone else on the team was at creating shots for him. Thankfully, that won't be a problem here. We have two guys that are terrific at creating shots for others and every point guard we've had has been given plenty of good looks and set ups.

There is no justification in concluding he'll never be happy not being the major ball handler on 80% of the plays. The guy is best at being a ball-dominant scorer. That was his role; it was the only role he could play. No one else on the team averaged 1/4 as many points as him. He has never had to play with anyone even close to his level of ability. The Lakers haven't worked him out and don't seem to have any plans to do so, so I would guess they aren't going to pick him and this is all academic, but give the guy a shot. His real weakness isn't passing/ball-handling - he had a 2.0 ast/TO ratio when he did play the point. His weakness is size. Will he able to play agressively when getting beat up by much stronger players in the NBA? Maybe not, but he's just as big as Tony Parker, who has managed to thrive without the same threat of a jump shot in a new league where you're hardly allowed to touch anyone, so who knows? Some other team will find out, not us.
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