| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
DA1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2015
Posts: 753
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 1:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mhan00 wrote: | | Cam can play a role on the team, but it shouldn’t be as big a one as it has been. He just isn’t a good player. |
This..
he should be a fringe 2nd unit, really a 3rd unit hustle guy.
Ham prioritizing him as a starter is insane. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26627
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Reddish would be great coming off the bench for us, but not as as starter getting 30 minutes per game.
Ham is actually making his season worse by trying to force him into too big a role.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bron2AD
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9366
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2024 6:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | Reddish would be great coming off the bench for us, but not as as starter getting 30 minutes per game.
Ham is actually making his season worse by trying to force him into too big a role. |
He should be 10-12 guy just ahead of max Levis/JHS.
Hams infatuating with him and prince is unreal |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bron2AD
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2021
Posts: 9366
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| this scrub not getting 25mins is really helping this team. cut him |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53940
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
REALLY missed him tonight.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26627
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | The Mavericks REALLY missed him tonight. |
You are correct.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dominator
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 8682
Location: Irvine
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No reason whatsoever to put him back in the rotation |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26627
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dominator wrote: | | No reason whatsoever to put him back in the rotation |
The only minutes in rotation Cam should be fighting for is Christie's. That's it.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53940
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Dominator wrote: | | No reason whatsoever to put him back in the rotation |
The only minutes in rotation Cam should be fighting for is Christie's. That's it. |
And that’s a battle Cam should lose. Enough is enough with this guy. He can’t play.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakersfan32
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 3788
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| i think he's gonna exercise his player option |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30777
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Dominator wrote: | | No reason whatsoever to put him back in the rotation |
The only minutes in rotation Cam should be fighting for is Christie's. That's it. |
And that’s a battle Cam should lose. Enough is enough with this guy. He can’t play. |
There is literally ZERO reason why he should get any more playing time. I can't believe people are still even entertaining this notion. Makes me physically ill. We have a serious minutes crunch at the position and Rui out here playing 20 minutes a game. His minutes should permanently be going to Rui and Christie. Hell, shave off minutes from Prince and give it to them too.
_________________
KOBE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DA1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2015
Posts: 753
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dominator wrote: | | No reason whatsoever to put him back in the rotation |
This
it was a good feel good story and I'm glad he at least got to show case what he is capable of for other teams wanting to take a flyer on him, but as far as his role on this team going forward... 11th-12th man |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DA1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2015
Posts: 753
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Dominator wrote: | | No reason whatsoever to put him back in the rotation |
The only minutes in rotation Cam should be fighting for is Christie's. That's it. |
Don't even think he should be fighting for Max's minutes, if anything he should just be insurance for potential games Max might miss for whatever reason. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17908
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Defensively I think he still can have some value. I think he's been banged up and like Vando earlier, wasn't able to be fully effective.
My problem is I don't like playing him and Vando both. So unless you start one of Reddish or Vando, there just aren't really minutes for him. And on top of that, Ham has a tendency to ride players who play tough defense and theoretically can shoot a 3 (which is Reddish -- Vando is just a total non-shooter) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29490
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | Defensively I think he still can have some value. I think he's been banged up and like Vando earlier, wasn't able to be fully effective.
My problem is I don't like playing him and Vando both. So unless you start one of Reddish or Vando, there just aren't really minutes for him. And on top of that, Ham has a tendency to ride players who play tough defense and theoretically can shoot a 3 (which is Reddish -- Vando is just a total non-shooter) |
I have nothing against Cam.
But he shouldn't play another minute the rest of this season. Unless we are severely injured.
Sub 40% from the field is unacceptable. He started a ton of games for us. The sample size is there.
Vando is currently just at 40%. But for his career, he is mucher higher than that. And I expect that number to go up. Not to mention. He is the superior defender, cutter, hustle guy.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17908
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | tox wrote: | Defensively I think he still can have some value. I think he's been banged up and like Vando earlier, wasn't able to be fully effective.
My problem is I don't like playing him and Vando both. So unless you start one of Reddish or Vando, there just aren't really minutes for him. And on top of that, Ham has a tendency to ride players who play tough defense and theoretically can shoot a 3 (which is Reddish -- Vando is just a total non-shooter) |
I have nothing against Cam.
But he shouldn't play another minute the rest of this season. Unless we are severely injured.
Sub 40% from the field is unacceptable. He started a ton of games for us. The sample size is there.
Vando is currently just at 40%. But for his career, he is mucher higher than that. And I expect that number to go up. Not to mention. He is the superior defender, cutter, hustle guy. |
Cam is a better shooter. Which may sound silly but there's a difference between "very bad" and "really really bad." I'm OK with Cam not playing any more real minutes if we are healthy. But situationally I can see him being useful on this team. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12690
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 2:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Vanderbilt is a much better defender than Reddish, though Reddish is a decent defender.
I did just have a comment though on the shooting, I don't think it's fair to compare the FG% of those two and to say that Vanderbilt shoots a higher percentage. While that's true, the context is important.
50% of Vanderbilt's shots are at the rim (0-3 feet), compared to only 28.6% of Reddish's. And 46.4% of Cam's shots are three pointers, compared to 31.3% of Vanderbilts. Cam's 60% at the rim is slightly better than Vanderbilt's 59.4%, and his 33.7% shooting from three is far better than Vanderbilt's 15%. Cams' eFG as a result is 46.9% vs. Vanderbilt's 43%, and his True Shooting Percentage is 51.1% vs. Vando's 45.6%.
Cam gives you better spacing. Not good spacing, but much better than Vanderbilt, who teams will sometimes completely ignore. I don't think Cam's marginally improved offensive spacing makes up for Vanderbilt's defensive prowess though. But I do want to be fair to him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17908
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm honestly interested based on what people make this statement.
| Quote: | Vanderbilt is a much better defender than Reddish, though Reddish is a decent defender.
|
I mean I'm not even disagreeing with the claim, just that it seems to be a widely held belief that maybe merits some analysis. Reddish's deflection/ steal rates are elite and his aggregate defensive metrics (advanced stats) are good too. Though like Vando, not good enough to compensate for offense (as far as the stats are concerned) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12690
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | I mean I'm not even disagreeing with the claim, just that it seems to be a widely held belief that maybe merits some analysis. |
I like Vanderbilt's ball pressure and ball denial. The downside of that is sometimes he can get backdoored. But I think his pressure helps to wear down opposing offensive players.
Reddish is a good defender as well, I don't think he's on par with Vanderbilt in that regard. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazylakerfan001
Star Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 1010
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2024 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | I'm honestly interested based on what people make this statement.
| Quote: | Vanderbilt is a much better defender than Reddish, though Reddish is a decent defender.
|
I mean I'm not even disagreeing with the claim, just that it seems to be a widely held belief that maybe merits some analysis. Reddish's deflection/ steal rates are elite and his aggregate defensive metrics (advanced stats) are good too. Though like Vando, not good enough to compensate for offense (as far as the stats are concerned) |
Cam is a good POA defender while Vando is also a good POA defender he excels at help defense and switching. Vando is a more versatile defender and he makes the team better at defense when he’s on the floor. Vando plays the passing lanes well and is good at getting easy buckets in the fast break. Cam likes to gamble to get steals sometimes and is always out of control in fast breaks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39667
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| crazylakerfan001 wrote: | | tox wrote: | I'm honestly interested based on what people make this statement.
| Quote: | Vanderbilt is a much better defender than Reddish, though Reddish is a decent defender.
|
I mean I'm not even disagreeing with the claim, just that it seems to be a widely held belief that maybe merits some analysis. Reddish's deflection/ steal rates are elite and his aggregate defensive metrics (advanced stats) are good too. Though like Vando, not good enough to compensate for offense (as far as the stats are concerned) |
Cam is a good POA defender while Vando is also a good POA defender he excels at help defense and switching. Vando is a more versatile defender and he makes the team better at defense when he’s on the floor. Vando plays the passing lanes well and is good at getting easy buckets in the fast break. Cam likes to gamble to get steals sometimes and is always out of control in fast breaks |
Its more than just defense with Vando. Its his high effort play that motivates the rest of the team to follow. Its the offensive rebounding, the tips, the dives. He just has a different effect on the game than merely playing good defense. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17908
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| defense wrote: | | crazylakerfan001 wrote: | | tox wrote: | I'm honestly interested based on what people make this statement.
| Quote: | Vanderbilt is a much better defender than Reddish, though Reddish is a decent defender.
|
I mean I'm not even disagreeing with the claim, just that it seems to be a widely held belief that maybe merits some analysis. Reddish's deflection/ steal rates are elite and his aggregate defensive metrics (advanced stats) are good too. Though like Vando, not good enough to compensate for offense (as far as the stats are concerned) |
Cam is a good POA defender while Vando is also a good POA defender he excels at help defense and switching. Vando is a more versatile defender and he makes the team better at defense when he’s on the floor. Vando plays the passing lanes well and is good at getting easy buckets in the fast break. Cam likes to gamble to get steals sometimes and is always out of control in fast breaks |
Its more than just defense with Vando. Its his high effort play that motivates the rest of the team to follow. Its the offensive rebounding, the tips, the dives. He just has a different effect on the game than merely playing good defense. |
Couldn't you say the same thing about Reddish? He leads the team by a country mile on deflections. When the Lakers were winning the IST, Vando was still injured/ banged up, and yet they still had that hyperactive defensive identity -- IMO because of Reddish as much as anyone else.
This is mostly devil's advocate but I'm interested on the diverging perceptions of two offensively limited, defensive studs (and I do think Cam is a really good defender -- he was just banged up).
To me the most obvious difference is Vanderbilt is a fantastic rebounder, and also that he doesn't overlap with two of our four best players (Reaves, Russell). And that Christie can approximate Reddish's defense somewhat while providing much better offense (at least on spot ups).
Even when the starters were killing it in the 3rd, once Vando entered for Prince it was pretty meh. I think there are good lineups for Vando (again, playing with Wood and not AD seems like a match made in heaven) but I wonder why that can't be the case for Reddish, especially since he's a better 3 point shooter who can actually theoretically make enough 3s to punish teams for cheating off of him (he has 2 games with 4+ 3s, which is getting to the point where the actual points outweigh the consequences of teams cheating off of him the rest of the possessions) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4818
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cheap insurance policy as a long wing. Ham should not treat him more than that. And counterproductive to believe he is more than that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39667
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | defense wrote: | | crazylakerfan001 wrote: | | tox wrote: | I'm honestly interested based on what people make this statement.
| Quote: | Vanderbilt is a much better defender than Reddish, though Reddish is a decent defender.
|
I mean I'm not even disagreeing with the claim, just that it seems to be a widely held belief that maybe merits some analysis. Reddish's deflection/ steal rates are elite and his aggregate defensive metrics (advanced stats) are good too. Though like Vando, not good enough to compensate for offense (as far as the stats are concerned) |
Cam is a good POA defender while Vando is also a good POA defender he excels at help defense and switching. Vando is a more versatile defender and he makes the team better at defense when he’s on the floor. Vando plays the passing lanes well and is good at getting easy buckets in the fast break. Cam likes to gamble to get steals sometimes and is always out of control in fast breaks |
Its more than just defense with Vando. Its his high effort play that motivates the rest of the team to follow. Its the offensive rebounding, the tips, the dives. He just has a different effect on the game than merely playing good defense. |
Couldn't you say the same thing about Reddish? He leads the team by a country mile on deflections. When the Lakers were winning the IST, Vando was still injured/ banged up, and yet they still had that hyperactive defensive identity -- IMO because of Reddish as much as anyone else.
This is mostly devil's advocate but I'm interested on the diverging perceptions of two offensively limited, defensive studs (and I do think Cam is a really good defender -- he was just banged up).
To me the most obvious difference is Vanderbilt is a fantastic rebounder, and also that he doesn't overlap with two of our four best players (Reaves, Russell). And that Christie can approximate Reddish's defense somewhat while providing much better offense (at least on spot ups).
Even when the starters were killing it in the 3rd, once Vando entered for Prince it was pretty meh. I think there are good lineups for Vando (again, playing with Wood and not AD seems like a match made in heaven) but I wonder why that can't be the case for Reddish, especially since he's a better 3 point shooter who can actually theoretically make enough 3s to punish teams for cheating off of him (he has 2 games with 4+ 3s, which is getting to the point where the actual points outweigh the consequences of teams cheating off of him the rest of the possessions) |
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you are saying. I was mostly trying to give credit to Vando for more than just defense, while pointing out that I think he is more valuable to the Lakers than Cam. I do believe Cam has his place on the team. I am not one of these people that think he should get zero minutes.
As far as his 3 point shooting... we always talk about gravity being what matters. Cam to me has similar gravity to Vando. Opposing teams aren't closing him out with urgency, but I do agree that it is better than Vando at this point.
We lack size. Vando has length, more than Cam. We lack rebounding at times. Vando attacks the boards hard on both ends. We lack effort/energy at times. Vando goes out there and gives 100 percent all the time. So much so, that it rubs off on the team. I have seen Cam have this effect a few times, but not on the level that Vando has since last season.
They are both useful in my opinion. Just don't play them together! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17908
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Can't argue with that. I also suspect it'll be a situational thing. If Cam Reddish is our best guy to guard Jamal Murray (dunno how Gabe did against Murray; I didn't watch the Finals), well he might be more playable than Vando was in last year's WCF. But against a team like the Mavs -- especially if Reaves can play good enough defense on a guy like Kyrie -- then I don't really see the value prop of Reddish playing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
