Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32281 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:05 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
If those second apron rules are already in effect for them, then it's even worse than I thought.
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
These are the only player aggregation limits I could find from the new CBA. Unless there's something else, it would seem Phoenix could break Ayton up into parts, though they might have an easier time of it before July 1.
Edit: Technically Ayton has trade veto until 7/1 by virtue of his offer sheet having been matched. So he has a say in where he goes until the new CBA rules start to kick in.
Starting in the summer of 2024, any team "over the second apron will no longer be able to aggregate salaries to trade for a single player making more money,"
From July to December 15, if the number of aggregating players going out is larger than the number coming back, only one minimum contract can be included in that aggregation.
_________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night.
Last edited by Laker's Fan on Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144608 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:21 pm Post subject:
ChickenStu wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
If those second apron rules are already in effect for them, then it's even worse than I thought.
The assumption is that they are, I don’t see a 1 for 1 deal that another team would do for Ayton. Vogel turning him into Hibbert is their best chance. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
So the Suns have six players under contract and are $9.3M over the luxury tax threshold. They are $8.2M from the second apron. I am amazed that they actually did this.
On the other hand, Windhorst was right that the Wizards wouldn't be able to get much for Beal.
Windhorst has been on it the last 2 offseasons. The NTC was really huge here. Just kills the team's leverage.
Yes, that's true, but on the other hand, the Wizards just rolled over. They were under no obligation to trade Beal. They could have waited. Making the deal right now saves them only a minimal amount of money and clears no cap space for this summer. So now they're running around looking for someone who will give them something for Chris Paul. Good luck with that.
They only had so much time to trade for CP3's contract before it's not fully guaranteed. If they cut him then his guaranteed salary plus Shamet's will save Washington around 12M this season.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32281 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:58 pm Post subject:
Dreamshake wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
So the Suns have six players under contract and are $9.3M over the luxury tax threshold. They are $8.2M from the second apron. I am amazed that they actually did this.
On the other hand, Windhorst was right that the Wizards wouldn't be able to get much for Beal.
Windhorst has been on it the last 2 offseasons. The NTC was really huge here. Just kills the team's leverage.
Yes, that's true, but on the other hand, the Wizards just rolled over. They were under no obligation to trade Beal. They could have waited. Making the deal right now saves them only a minimal amount of money and clears no cap space for this summer. So now they're running around looking for someone who will give them something for Chris Paul. Good luck with that.
They only had so much time to trade for CP3's contract before it's not fully guaranteed. If they cut him then his guaranteed salary plus Shamet's will save Washington around 12M this season.
Of course, they are also getting out from the remaining $161MM on Beal's contract after this season, while saving the $12MM you say this year. Shamet's deal is non-guaranteed for next season, so if he's not an asset, they can simply waive him without penalty. And if he is an asset, I'm guessing they will look to flip him before this coming season's trade deadline.
Picking Ayton #1 over Doncic and Trae Young cost them a championship, probably multiple. Imagine:
Doncic
Beal
Booker
Durant
Whoever
No Monty being stupid and not wanting to wall off the paint versus Freak cost them a title. He can deflect whatever at Ayton but their coach coughed up that series and title in a year they had everything align for them with AD and Kawhi both getting hurt
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
They can deal him this summer. The penalty for that 1 for 1 applies next summer. Bobby Marks already confirmed that. It’s their exemptions that get screwed this summer.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36231 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:38 pm Post subject:
Kblo247! wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Picking Ayton #1 over Doncic and Trae Young cost them a championship, probably multiple. Imagine:
Doncic
Beal
Booker
Durant
Whoever
No Monty being stupid and not wanting to wall off the paint versus Freak cost them a title. He can deflect whatever at Ayton but their coach coughed up that series and title in a year they had everything align for them with AD and Kawhi both getting hurt
What’s funny is Nurse with Toronto and Spoelstra with Miami already demonstrated what to do vs Giannis, so it’s not like it was a secret. They even had an elite perimeter defender in Mikal Bridges. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32281 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:40 pm Post subject:
Kblo247! wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
They can deal him this summer. The penalty for that 1 for 1 applies next summer. Bobby Marks already confirmed that. It’s their exemptions that get screwed this summer.
OK yeah that's what I thought too, as long as they do it quickly enough, they can still bring back multiple players. If I'm Phoenix, that has to be their play. We can argue about whether or not they should have brought in Beal, or even KD as wolf alluded to, but now that they have, it's a must for them to try to break up Ayton's contract into multiple, usable players for some semblance of depth.
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
They can deal him this summer. The penalty for that 1 for 1 applies next summer. Bobby Marks already confirmed that. It’s their exemptions that get screwed this summer.
OK yeah that's what I thought too, as long as they do it quickly enough, they can still bring back multiple players. If I'm Phoenix, that has to be their play. We can argue about whether or not they should have brought in Beal, or even KD as wolf alluded to, but now that they have, it's a must for them to try to break up Ayton's contract into multiple, usable players for some semblance of depth.
The other catch is they don’t have the right to trade Ayton to anywhere he does not want to go to July 1. He did that offer sheet last year so that’s his day and he can’t be dealt without okaying where he goes yet.
He did not have to okay or turn down the Beal deal but they did try to trade him. But it was already said Beal used his ntc to block and Ayton deal, not Ayton. Between how monty treated him and how they tried to trade him already and Beal stopped it, he could be a dick to July 1 and block any deal he wants limiting the pieces they get back as teams will move different with their cap and picks because he has no reason to help them.
And then again if they have no exemption to use they are limited to get min deals. And non bird raises for Craig and Lansdale
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32281 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:48 pm Post subject:
Kblo247! wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Kblo247! wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
They can deal him this summer. The penalty for that 1 for 1 applies next summer. Bobby Marks already confirmed that. It’s their exemptions that get screwed this summer.
OK yeah that's what I thought too, as long as they do it quickly enough, they can still bring back multiple players. If I'm Phoenix, that has to be their play. We can argue about whether or not they should have brought in Beal, or even KD as wolf alluded to, but now that they have, it's a must for them to try to break up Ayton's contract into multiple, usable players for some semblance of depth.
The other catch is they don’t have the right to trade Ayton to anywhere he does not want to go to July 1. He did that offer sheet last year so that’s his day and he can’t be dealt without okaying where he goes yet.
He did not have to okay or turn down the Beal deal but they did try to trade him. But it was already said Beal used his ntc to block and Ayton deal, not Ayton. Between how monty treated him and how they tried to trade him already and Beal stopped it, he could be a dick to July 1 and block any deal he wants limiting the pieces they get back as teams will move different with their cap and picks because he has no reason to help them.
And then again if they have no exemption to use they are limited to get min deals. And non bird raises for Craig and Lansdale
Definitely an interesting wrinkle, but if he really wants to get out of there (and he isn't going to be a focal point of that team, which is obvious), he should probably just accept a deal elsewhere, so long as it's a team that will emphasize him more. He's still plenty young enough to where he can score another lucrative contract, and he won't be doing himself any favors along those lines if he stays in Phoenix as a 4th option.
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
They can deal him this summer. The penalty for that 1 for 1 applies next summer. Bobby Marks already confirmed that. It’s their exemptions that get screwed this summer.
OK yeah that's what I thought too, as long as they do it quickly enough, they can still bring back multiple players. If I'm Phoenix, that has to be their play. We can argue about whether or not they should have brought in Beal, or even KD as wolf alluded to, but now that they have, it's a must for them to try to break up Ayton's contract into multiple, usable players for some semblance of depth.
The other catch is they don’t have the right to trade Ayton to anywhere he does not want to go to July 1. He did that offer sheet last year so that’s his day and he can’t be dealt without okaying where he goes yet.
He did not have to okay or turn down the Beal deal but they did try to trade him. But it was already said Beal used his ntc to block and Ayton deal, not Ayton. Between how monty treated him and how they tried to trade him already and Beal stopped it, he could be a dick to July 1 and block any deal he wants limiting the pieces they get back as teams will move different with their cap and picks because he has no reason to help them.
And then again if they have no exemption to use they are limited to get min deals. And non bird raises for Craig and Lansdale
Definitely an interesting wrinkle, but if he really wants to get out of there (and he isn't going to be a focal point of that team, which is obvious), he should probably just accept a deal elsewhere, so long as it's a team that will emphasize him more. He's still plenty young enough to where he can score another lucrative contract, and he won't be doing himself any favors along those lines if he stays in Phoenix as a 4th option.
I agree he should accept a deal somewhere, but not just any deal. He’s likely to never have this power to control his own fate again since he’s not a star, so he needs to guide his own path with an agent. He needs to make his own way to a place he fits. Don’t let them just trade you to somewhere like Detroit for instance because the suns can figure out how to get a pick or save money, and then get stuck with Monty again. He needs to use his 12 days wisely. If I was him, I would force my way to Dallas and make them eat Kleiber and Hardaway by saying I’ll say no all 12 days through the draft and teams having space.
They only had so much time to trade for CP3's contract before it's not fully guaranteed. If they cut him then his guaranteed salary plus Shamet's will save Washington around 12M this season.
Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
2h
Chris Paul says he found out he was traded on a flight to NY for his @GMA appearance: “In this league, anything can happen. You just figure out what’s next.” This was prescheduled to promote his new book, Sixty-One.
Chris Paul is the real winner here… went from 15m salary to guaranteed 30m salary…nice
But with how limited his time left in the league is, I'm sure he'd trade that extra cash to have a championship, or at least contend for one. Washington isn't likely going to keep him, but "for now" I wouldn't see him as a winner from this trade so long as he's on the Wizards' roster.
And Draymond is now a free agent. Let the speculation begin. Tried to tell yall yesterday but was dismissed. _________________ Naz Reid or Brooks Lopez are a must in the 2023 offseason!
I wouldn’t count out Ayton until he had some time with a different coaching staff. Maybe nothing would change but maybe he could be shown how to focus.
They need to deal him for multiple depth pieces. He's now a 4th option who isn't a defensive center who makes over $32MM. Maybe they can get GTJ to opt in and deal for he and Boucher from Toronto or something. Maybe Rozier and Martin from Charlotte.
They can only deal Ayton 1 for 1, they can’t aggregate salaries from what I understand.
They can deal him this summer. The penalty for that 1 for 1 applies next summer. Bobby Marks already confirmed that. It’s their exemptions that get screwed this summer.
OK yeah that's what I thought too, as long as they do it quickly enough, they can still bring back multiple players. If I'm Phoenix, that has to be their play. We can argue about whether or not they should have brought in Beal, or even KD as wolf alluded to, but now that they have, it's a must for them to try to break up Ayton's contract into multiple, usable players for some semblance of depth.
The other catch is they don’t have the right to trade Ayton to anywhere he does not want to go to July 1. He did that offer sheet last year so that’s his day and he can’t be dealt without okaying where he goes yet.
He did not have to okay or turn down the Beal deal but they did try to trade him. But it was already said Beal used his ntc to block and Ayton deal, not Ayton. Between how monty treated him and how they tried to trade him already and Beal stopped it, he could be a dick to July 1 and block any deal he wants limiting the pieces they get back as teams will move different with their cap and picks because he has no reason to help them.
And then again if they have no exemption to use they are limited to get min deals. And non bird raises for Craig and Lansdale
Definitely an interesting wrinkle, but if he really wants to get out of there (and he isn't going to be a focal point of that team, which is obvious), he should probably just accept a deal elsewhere, so long as it's a team that will emphasize him more. He's still plenty young enough to where he can score another lucrative contract, and he won't be doing himself any favors along those lines if he stays in Phoenix as a 4th option.
I agree he should accept a deal somewhere, but not just any deal. He’s likely to never have this power to control his own fate again since he’s not a star, so he needs to guide his own path with an agent. He needs to make his own way to a place he fits. Don’t let them just trade you to somewhere like Detroit for instance because the suns can figure out how to get a pick or save money, and then get stuck with Monty again. He needs to use his 12 days wisely. If I was him, I would force my way to Dallas and make them eat Kleiber and Hardaway by saying I’ll say no all 12 days through the draft and teams having space.
Suns kind of opposite now of what happened with Beal. They know they need to move Ayton for pieces but he gets to kind of decide what those pieces are for the next 12 days. Which is PHX really needs to move him if they are going to in next 12 days be sure 1 to 1 once July 1st hits doesn’t really help them a ton since they have no real picks left to entice a team to give up a valuable player for Ayton.
Still think Bamba, Malik and piece makes sense for both teams. If we keep Dennis, LBJ, AD and Vandy w/Rui and Reeves, Ayton defense is less of a liability but his scoring and size allows us to have a true center and AD/LBJ at the forwards. I don’t love Ayton but I think he would be a quality piece if we could get him w/o giving up 17th.
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