Rich Paul: Lebron James and Anthony Davis Will Be Moving To The 4 and 5 This Season
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GameCock-MD
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Rich Paul is not the coach.

That makes no sense.

AD is not the best full time 5 we have.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:22 pm    Post subject:

GameCock-MD wrote:
Rich Paul is not the coach.

That makes no sense.

AD is not the best full time 5 we have.


I know Rich Paul's not the head coach, he just made a statement. AD won't be playing full time DH and DJ will play more minutes at the 5.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:11 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That is where they should be playing. Unfortunately, AD is always going to be an injury concern. Frank needs to do a better job with load management (W-L's be damned). Our new athletic trainer will hopefully pay dividends.


What is Nina Hsieh positiion now?


Silver Screen and Roll says she's been let go

EDIT - oh an I just saw where SportsCenter said her "contract would not be renewed" clear back in June so yeah... le unfortunate
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:04 pm    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
jodeke wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That is where they should be playing. Unfortunately, AD is always going to be an injury concern. Frank needs to do a better job with load management (W-L's be damned). Our new athletic trainer will hopefully pay dividends.


What is Nina Hsieh positiion now?


Silver Screen and Roll says she's been let go

EDIT - oh an I just saw where SportsCenter said her "contract would not be renewed" clear back in June so yeah... le unfortunate

I wonder how much or if she was responsible for the rash of injuries?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:16 pm    Post subject:

Greatest SF of all time now a power forward.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Greatest SF of all time now a power forward.


Is there a difference in today’s league?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:58 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
jodeke wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That is where they should be playing. Unfortunately, AD is always going to be an injury concern. Frank needs to do a better job with load management (W-L's be damned). Our new athletic trainer will hopefully pay dividends.


What is Nina Hsieh positiion now?


Silver Screen and Roll says she's been let go

EDIT - oh an I just saw where SportsCenter said her "contract would not be renewed" clear back in June so yeah... le unfortunate

I wonder how much or if she was responsible for the rash of injuries?


A guy running into LeBron, AD being AD, or folks getting COVID? In a second in a row shortened weird season?

Yeah I’m guessing she didn’t have much to do with that. Lol
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:12 am    Post subject:

I believe they will start AD at the 4, but close games wth AD at the 5.

Roster wise, they are offense benefits of moving AD to the 5.

1) You can put your 4 best shot makers in the same lineup. AD/Melo/Bron/Westbrook + the best 3nD wing you possess.

2) You have more floor spacing for Westbrook, especially if AD reverts his 3 ball back to what it was in 19-20.

I think this is all based on a playoff theory, in that teams will sag off Westbrook in the playoffs. And so if we have a big guy that is just a lob threat, then teams will be able to easily sag off Westbrook and close up those driving angles.

I would guess for now we see this in small doses in RS games, and something we consider more of in the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:23 am    Post subject:

Also take into account when Rich was telling people that, the Lakers had not finalized their contracts and plans with coaches.

Very obvious since then, the Lakers have made their mind up that they want a rim (post) sprinter/runner and a lob threat. While AD can do this, it is not the skill I would say should define his game. They probably want to still start DAJ and bring Dwight in for that energy off the bench. This allows them to be physical, big, and intimidating. It also allows them to give Westbrook (and Lebron) a big that will run the floor after the rebound, and then in halfcourt sets look for the openings under the basket (and rebound).

I do not think AD is best served doing the dirty work at the 5, what Vogel wants him doing. Neither do I think AD is best served being a stretch 5. What you want with AD is to him utilize his elite skills and size that no one else in the league has at his size, across the floor in many roles. This constantly gives us different looks. For example:

Jordan/AD
AD/Melo
Howard/Melo
Howard/AD
AD/Bron

Would be hard to find teams that would be easily able to match up with all the above 5/4 combos. That is a lot of different looks. And the role of the 5 should always be to run the floor, defend, board, and ensure they are as defensively viable as possible. This is the strength of our team, our size. By playing AD at the 5, and going with James/Melo at the 4, we now become much more atypical like most other NBA teams (at least in size). That is why I think in the end, the Lakers will stick with what works for them as identity.

Also thinking of the end of games, if you have that AD/Bron combo. You just shifted gears suddenly on a team. You run those screens for your ballhandler, and now your big can pop, roll, or even catch the ball on an isolation and go to work on a mismatch. There's a lot more work for an opponent to do if you mix up your lineups, vs playing just one way. Playing one way becomes predictable and easier to defend.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:00 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Car54 wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
i highly doubt AD starts full time at the 5. he'll get injured in no time. you want him at the 5 "when it counts".


This is often repeated can anyone show an example or examples of his injuries being related to playing center?


This is by no means conclusive, but Dwight avg 15.7 minutes in the bubble playoffs. McGee avg 9.6. According to basketball-reference.com, Kieff played 33% of his 18.3 minutes per game at the center position (ie 6 minutes per game). So AD had to man the 5 spot on avg 1.5 - 2 quarters (18-24minutes) of a game during the bubble playoffs run.

Also consider, that within the bubble there was no travel and no back-to-backs, and all this occurred at the heels of a 4 month hiatus within the season.

AD seemed to get severely hurt in Game 4 of the WCF and Game 5 of the Finals. He ended up playing 40+ mins in those games.

https://youtu.be/6zTXO7h8PDw

https://youtu.be/pkVJBAQyQ20

Quote:
He closed out L.A.'s championship run with 19 points, 15 rebounds and 2 blocks in the clincher and now was limping around as if he had no business being on the court just hours before.

"Man, I'm hurting," said Davis, who was listed on the injury report with a right heel contusion but told ESPN he was also dealing with an undisclosed ankle injury that had required six hours of treatment on Sunday afternoon.

"My mindset is, 'It's the Finals. I got to do whatever I can to compete,'" he said. "There's no way in hell I wasn't playing in this game."


Firstly, contact in the playoffs is a different beast than the regular season and he clearly played through it and did a hell of a job. Secondly, he falls over constantly regardless if he's playing the 4 or the 5.

We're not in the 90s anymore, he's not going to be in the post banging all night at the 5. He has great size and huge shoulders, but his base has always been the problem. More specifically, balance and landings are his issue. This holds anywhere on the court at any position. He can go up for an uncontested dunk and wind up on the floor afterwards. He's has the same sort of minor injuries since his New Orleans days. Hopefully he's worked on this over the off-season this year.

He did wind up getting injured playing the 4 last season, no? So it doesn't matter until he puts in the work on his body.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:06 am    Post subject:

I agree that whether he plays 4 or 5, AD is same injury concern.

The reason why I think AD prefers the 4, he does not have to set as many screen/rolls and does not have to battle in the paint as much. I think since he is naturally a wing/forward, he prefers to play a the 4, where he can handle the ball a lot more.

It is not about injuries, or anything like that. It is about his role, the 5 would command him to be running post to post, or setting screens (rolling) and then also defending the phsyical post players. ADs skillset can do that, but his natural skillset is better suited for the 4 where he can utilize his all around skills. For example at the 4 he can catch the ball in the mid-range and go to work on a smaller guy usually, someone that he can a) shoot over b) drive by or c) back down and post up. Against a bigger 5, AD has to play further away from the basket, and it is actually more difficult for AD to get a high quality shot off from what I have seen. As a team, we are more effective with AD at the 5 (usually) because we go to it in bursts and it adds team speed and floor spacing, and we rely less on his isolation skills from there. That is why late in games it makes so much sense, as Bron (and now Westbrook) will be handling the ball and you want AD playing more of a "role" vs being the featured guy.

As a team, we may be better off with AD at the 5, but there is a shift in his role when he goes there. Even in the bubble playoffs, while AD played a lot of 5. He also played 4. I think both spots should be used. At 4, we should work on AD to be more aggressive individually. And then at 5, we ask him to be more of a "role" guy. Being more of an off the ball threat is not a bad thing, but it means AD handles the ball a lot less. As a superstar, that is why the balance is good. We don't want him to become Chris Bosh in Miami. He is a better player.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:17 am    Post subject:

Anthony is a unicorn, we could run him at small forward like young Kevin Garnett if we wanted.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:38 am    Post subject:

I think against a team like BKN, they will be running Griffin or KD at Center so AD matching up there is a non-issue. MIL has Lopez, again a non-issue for AD.
None of our Finals opponents would be a problem.

In the West, PHX and DEN could be problems. AD didn't matchup great with Ayton and you wouldn't want him on Jokic all game either. So against those teams we might have to go big and really get creative with the offense because teams will cheat off Russ like crazy.

If I'm Russ I'm in the lab all summer practicing spot up threes.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:12 am    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
jodeke wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That is where they should be playing. Unfortunately, AD is always going to be an injury concern. Frank needs to do a better job with load management (W-L's be damned). Our new athletic trainer will hopefully pay dividends.


What is Nina Hsieh positiion now?


Silver Screen and Roll says she's been let go

EDIT - oh an I just saw where SportsCenter said her "contract would not be renewed" clear back in June so yeah... le unfortunate

I wonder how much or if she was responsible for the rash of injuries?


A guy running into LeBron, AD being AD, or folks getting COVID? In a second in a row shortened weird season?

Yeah I’m guessing she didn’t have much to do with that. Lol

For clarity, I should have worded it I wonder how much or if she was at all responsible for the rash of injuries?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
jodeke wrote:
TDRock wrote:
jodeke wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
That is where they should be playing. Unfortunately, AD is always going to be an injury concern. Frank needs to do a better job with load management (W-L's be damned). Our new athletic trainer will hopefully pay dividends.


What is Nina Hsieh positiion now?


Silver Screen and Roll says she's been let go

EDIT - oh an I just saw where SportsCenter said her "contract would not be renewed" clear back in June so yeah... le unfortunate

I wonder how much or if she was responsible for the rash of injuries?


A guy running into LeBron, AD being AD, or folks getting COVID? In a second in a row shortened weird season?

Yeah I’m guessing she didn’t have much to do with that. Lol

For clarity, I should have worded it I wonder how much or if she was at all responsible for the rash of injuries?


When I was reading yesterday, Word on the e-street was that she was kind of scapegoated. You know perhaps the Lakers felt she didn’t manage the injuries that did happen in the best way possible? And reading about her personal history I’m wondering if maybe she got promoted too quickly in the first place? Whatever the case it seems like an unfortunate situation.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
I wasn’t aware that Rich Paul is coach of the Lakers.


He has no say unless LeBron is now coaching the team and Vogel just sort of exists.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:03 am    Post subject:

If Ayton has to defend Davis at the 3pt line who is guarding the rim for them?

If the paint is OPEN who is stopping LeBron and Westbrook from attacking the rim?

If Ayton has to leave Davis open to TRY to contest the rim what is stopping Davis from hitting 3-5 3s per game without sweating?

Can Embidd keep up with Davis on transition?

Will Embidd like being involve in constant pick and roll defensive coverages and attempting to defend LeBron, Westbrook and Nunn? or does he prefer to sit by the rim and make it hard for us to attack the paint?

This move guarantees a ring.


Imagine


Irving
Harris
Harden
Durant
Griffin

Trying to protect the paint and defend and rebound vs Westbrook, LeBron and Davis.....I wouldn't go to this plan right away though. It is not about who finishes, its about building an identity for your team from the get go.

We are looking to put teams in an uncomfortable position.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:39 pm    Post subject:

I prefer DJ or Howard to be the starter at C, there is no incentive to put AD at C full time because he will have plenty of opportunities to get minutes.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:55 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
If Ayton has to defend Davis at the 3pt line who is guarding the rim for them?

If the paint is OPEN who is stopping LeBron and Westbrook from attacking the rim?

If Ayton has to leave Davis open to TRY to contest the rim what is stopping Davis from hitting 3-5 3s per game without sweating?

Can Embidd keep up with Davis on transition?

Will Embidd like being involve in constant pick and roll defensive coverages and attempting to defend LeBron, Westbrook and Nunn? or does he prefer to sit by the rim and make it hard for us to attack the paint?

This move guarantees a ring.


Imagine


Irving
Harris
Harden
Durant
Griffin

Trying to protect the paint and defend and rebound vs Westbrook, LeBron and Davis.....I wouldn't go to this plan right away though. It is not about who finishes, its about building an identity for your team from the get go.

We are looking to put teams in an uncomfortable position.


The thing stopping AD from hitting 3-5 threes a game is his limited ability to make them. He barely shoots 3 a game. That is the best way to defend him, let him shoot from deep.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
If Ayton has to defend Davis at the 3pt line who is guarding the rim for them?

If the paint is OPEN who is stopping LeBron and Westbrook from attacking the rim?

If Ayton has to leave Davis open to TRY to contest the rim what is stopping Davis from hitting 3-5 3s per game without sweating?

Can Embidd keep up with Davis on transition?

Will Embidd like being involve in constant pick and roll defensive coverages and attempting to defend LeBron, Westbrook and Nunn? or does he prefer to sit by the rim and make it hard for us to attack the paint?

This move guarantees a ring.


Imagine


Irving
Harris
Harden
Durant
Griffin

Trying to protect the paint and defend and rebound vs Westbrook, LeBron and Davis.....I wouldn't go to this plan right away though. It is not about who finishes, its about building an identity for your team from the get go.

We are looking to put teams in an uncomfortable position.


The thing stopping AD from hitting 3-5 threes a game is his limited ability to make them. He barely shoots 3 a game. That is the best way to defend him, let him shoot from deep.


So AD can't shoot yet *some* want to play him further from the basket at the 4. Makes sense.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:49 am    Post subject:

Huge if true.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:51 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
I wasn’t aware that Rich Paul is coach of the Lakers.


He has no say unless LeBron is now coaching the team and Vogel just sort of exists.


would this be the first time someone other than Vogel decided who starts?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:43 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Anthony is a unicorn, we could run him at small forward like young Kevin Garnett if we wanted.


You'd have to give him some Testosterone injections for him to be on KG's level of aggressiveness
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:22 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Greatest SF of all time now a power forward.


Well I'd say that Baylor could have played at most any position.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:24 am    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
If Ayton has to defend Davis at the 3pt line who is guarding the rim for them?

If the paint is OPEN who is stopping LeBron and Westbrook from attacking the rim?

If Ayton has to leave Davis open to TRY to contest the rim what is stopping Davis from hitting 3-5 3s per game without sweating?

Can Embidd keep up with Davis on transition?

Will Embidd like being involve in constant pick and roll defensive coverages and attempting to defend LeBron, Westbrook and Nunn? or does he prefer to sit by the rim and make it hard for us to attack the paint?

This move guarantees a ring.


Imagine


Irving
Harris
Harden
Durant
Griffin

Trying to protect the paint and defend and rebound vs Westbrook, LeBron and Davis.....I wouldn't go to this plan right away though. It is not about who finishes, its about building an identity for your team from the get go.

We are looking to put teams in an uncomfortable position.


The thing stopping AD from hitting 3-5 threes a game is his limited ability to make them. He barely shoots 3 a game. That is the best way to defend him, let him shoot from deep.


So AD can't shoot yet *some* want to play him further from the basket at the 4. Makes sense.


Nobody wants AD to be a stretch 4. They want him as a high post 4 that is a pick and pop option from mid. Like he's been his entire career.
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