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| WHO'S THE GREATEST PLAYMAKER IN SPORTS (WHY) |
| LeBron James |
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30% |
[ 3 ] |
| Tom Brady |
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30% |
[ 3 ] |
| Patrick Mahomes |
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20% |
[ 2 ] |
| Steph Curry |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Novak Djokovic |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
| OTHER (Any sport) WHY |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 10 |
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angrypuppy
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 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Why did Brady have that ten year drought in the middle of his career? He could have ten or more rings if not for that. |
You may want to take a look at the supporting cast. New England drafts weren't good but they did manage to sign a few aging stars. Brady won the MVP in a couple of those years throwing to guys who weren't even household names in their own households.
What is remarkable was his ability to elevate those teams and take them on deep playoff runs. That's what really separates him from all the other great QBs in the past. |
So why do some people say Brady only wins so much because of superstar supporting casts and Belichick? |
What superstar supporting casts? Brady has been starting at QB since 2000. He's only played with one HOFer in his prime: Ty Law. It doesn't get much better when you're looking for All Pro or even Pro Bowl players. It's the absence of superstars that is rather remarkable. In all fairness Gronk will be in the HOF someday, but even Gronk only played in three of the four Super Bowl championships.
Belichick is a brilliant coach but he's an awful general manager. The main attraction in New England was to take a pay cut and have a shot at a ring, that kept aging free agent talent inflow in New England. Now that Brady is gone, Belichick has been forced to pay above market rates. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
Mahomes playmaiking results in moving the chains and scoring. Brady moves the chains and scores within the confines of the play called. |
You lost me with the first two sentences. I'm not even sure where to begin.
Brady calls many of his own plays. Not only does he give guidance during pregame meetings to Arians and Leftwich, he changes plays based on what he sees prior to the snap. Even Arians recalled a pregame meeting where they told Brady what to expect on defense. Brady who wasn't even from the NFC told them that wasn't how that team was going play them defensively, then outlined what the defense would look like and how'd they'd exploit it. And Brady was right, that was exactly how the opposing team tried to play them defensively. I'll go further. Not only does Brady call the play during the audible, he also calls out the pass protection blocking assignments to his linemen.
Does Mahomes do that? No.
Playmaking isn't acting like Curly Howard on the gridiron. |
You're making my point, Brady is a technician. Very adept at executing plays reading defenses, game planning, and such.
I think playmaking is when plays break down and the QB does things to turn a broken play into something positive.
As I said we have different concepts of what playmaking is.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
Mahomes playmaiking results in moving the chains and scoring. Brady moves the chains and scores within the confines of the play called. |
You lost me with the first two sentences. I'm not even sure where to begin.
Brady calls many of his own plays. Not only does he give guidance during pregame meetings to Arians and Leftwich, he changes plays based on what he sees prior to the snap. Even Arians recalled a pregame meeting where they told Brady what to expect on defense. Brady who wasn't even from the NFC told them that wasn't how that team was going play them defensively, then outlined what the defense would look like and how'd they'd exploit it. And Brady was right, that was exactly how the opposing team tried to play them defensively. I'll go further. Not only does Brady call the play during the audible, he also calls out the pass protection blocking assignments to his linemen.
Does Mahomes do that? No.
Playmaking isn't acting like Curly Howard on the gridiron. |
You're making my point, Brady is a technician. Very adept at executing plays reading defenses, game planning, and such.
I think playmaking is when plays break down and the QB does things to turn a broken play into something positive.
As I said we have different concepts of what playmaking is. |
What defines a playmaker isn't just athleticism, it's what is between his or her ears. Magic Johnson was the best at playmaking on the fast break, but what Magic special was when he didn't see an immediate opportunity. He'd stop, diagnose, call and direct the play and then execute brilliantly.
At the risk of being called a heretic, he was superior to MJ as a pure playmaker. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
Mahomes playmaiking results in moving the chains and scoring. Brady moves the chains and scores within the confines of the play called. |
You lost me with the first two sentences. I'm not even sure where to begin.
Brady calls many of his own plays. Not only does he give guidance during pregame meetings to Arians and Leftwich, he changes plays based on what he sees prior to the snap. Even Arians recalled a pregame meeting where they told Brady what to expect on defense. Brady who wasn't even from the NFC told them that wasn't how that team was going play them defensively, then outlined what the defense would look like and how'd they'd exploit it. And Brady was right, that was exactly how the opposing team tried to play them defensively. I'll go further. Not only does Brady call the play during the audible, he also calls out the pass protection blocking assignments to his linemen.
Does Mahomes do that? No.
Playmaking isn't acting like Curly Howard on the gridiron. |
You're making my point, Brady is a technician. Very adept at executing plays reading defenses, game planning, and such.
I think playmaking is when plays break down and the QB does things to turn a broken play into something positive.
As I said we have different concepts of what playmaking is. |
What defines a playmaker isn't just athleticism, it's what is between his or her ears. Magic Johnson was the best at playmaking on the fast break, but what Magic special was when he didn't see an immediate opportunity. He'd stop, diagnose, call and direct the play and then execute brilliantly.
At the risk of being called a heretic, he was superior to MJ as a pure playmaker. |
Agree, Magic was a playmaker extraordinaire. Fast breaks are improvised not set plays. He thought on the run. That's what sets Patrick aside from other QB's, he improvises, makes plays on the run. Brady doesn't do that.
Again, we have different concepts on what a playmaker is.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
Mahomes playmaiking results in moving the chains and scoring. Brady moves the chains and scores within the confines of the play called. |
You lost me with the first two sentences. I'm not even sure where to begin.
Brady calls many of his own plays. Not only does he give guidance during pregame meetings to Arians and Leftwich, he changes plays based on what he sees prior to the snap. Even Arians recalled a pregame meeting where they told Brady what to expect on defense. Brady who wasn't even from the NFC told them that wasn't how that team was going play them defensively, then outlined what the defense would look like and how'd they'd exploit it. And Brady was right, that was exactly how the opposing team tried to play them defensively. I'll go further. Not only does Brady call the play during the audible, he also calls out the pass protection blocking assignments to his linemen.
Does Mahomes do that? No.
Playmaking isn't acting like Curly Howard on the gridiron. |
You're making my point, Brady is a technician. Very adept at executing plays reading defenses, game planning, and such.
I think playmaking is when plays break down and the QB does things to turn a broken play into something positive.
As I said we have different concepts of what playmaking is. |
What defines a playmaker isn't just athleticism, it's what is between his or her ears. Magic Johnson was the best at playmaking on the fast break, but what Magic special was when he didn't see an immediate opportunity. He'd stop, diagnose, call and direct the play and then execute brilliantly.
At the risk of being called a heretic, he was superior to MJ as a pure playmaker. |
Agree, Magic was a playmaker extraordinaire. Fast breaks are improvised not set plays. He thought on the run. That's what sets Patrick aside from other QB's, he improvises, makes plays on the run. Brady doesn't do that.
Again, we have different concepts on what a playmaker is. |
Oh yes he does. He might not run like Curly Howard, but Brady will find that receiver on the fly who isn't running an option route. That TD to Antonio Brown in the Super Bowl was the two of them understanding what to do when covered and improvising a play. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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And jodeke, here's another play during the NFC Championship game. Bucs were up 14-10 right before the half. With 8 seconds left to the first half with the ball at the GB 39, both sides knew that the objective is to get within easy FG range. However Brady notices that Kevin King is playing RCB, a mismatch with the speedy Scottie Miller. Brady changed the play with the audible and exploited the mismatch for a TD. The margin of error was tiny, only 2 seconds remained.
That was pure improvisation. |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | And jodeke, here's another play during the NFC Championship game. Bucs were up 14-10 right before the half. With 8 seconds left to the first half with the ball at the GB 39, both sides knew that the objective is to get within easy FG range. However Brady notices that Kevin King is playing RCB, a mismatch with the speedy Scottie Miller. Brady changed the play with the audible and exploited the mismatch for a TD. The margin of error was tiny, only 2 seconds remained.
That was pure improvisation. |
Tom is a pocket passer, a technician, Patrick is an improviser, makes plays on the run, a playmaker.
We could continue until the quote tree is a page long. I think Tom is a technician and Patrick is a playmaker. So let's do this. Agree to disagree.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | And jodeke, here's another play during the NFC Championship game. Bucs were up 14-10 right before the half. With 8 seconds left to the first half with the ball at the GB 39, both sides knew that the objective is to get within easy FG range. However Brady notices that Kevin King is playing RCB, a mismatch with the speedy Scottie Miller. Brady changed the play with the audible and exploited the mismatch for a TD. The margin of error was tiny, only 2 seconds remained.
That was pure improvisation. |
Tom is a pocket passer, a technician, Patrick is an improviser, makes plays on the run, a playmaker.
We could continue until the quote tree was a page long. I think Tom is a technician and Patrick is a playmaker. So let's do this. Agree to disagree. |
No, you're confusing Mahomes running with improvisation. Improvisation is the act of deviating from a set script that was either picked by the coach or called in the huddle. Improvisation is the ability to analyze where the defense might be vulnerable and then exploiting it with proper execution. There's a lot more to improvisation than running for your life, all because you haven't the skill set adjust the offense or decision-making on the fly. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | And jodeke, here's another play during the NFC Championship game. Bucs were up 14-10 right before the half. With 8 seconds left to the first half with the ball at the GB 39, both sides knew that the objective is to get within easy FG range. However Brady notices that Kevin King is playing RCB, a mismatch with the speedy Scottie Miller. Brady changed the play with the audible and exploited the mismatch for a TD. The margin of error was tiny, only 2 seconds remained.
That was pure improvisation. |
Tom is a pocket passer, a technician, Patrick is an improviser, makes plays on the run, a playmaker.
We could continue until the quote tree was a page long. I think Tom is a technician and Patrick is a playmaker. So let's do this. Agree to disagree. |
No, you're confusing Mahomes running with improvisation. Improvisation is the act of deviating from a set script that was either picked by the coach or called in the huddle. Improvisation is the ability to analyze where the defense might be vulnerable and then exploiting it with proper execution. There's a lot more to improvisation than running for your life, all because you haven't the skill set adjust the offense or decision-making on the fly. |
Again we have a different concept of what playmaking is. As I said we could fill a page with quote trees. I'm done.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | I’d have to take Brady. Yes he had the advantage of that team and system, but as he just proved, he gets it done, and seven in the free agency and cap period in that sport is insane. |
I agree and I hated a lot on him in New England due to my former love for the Chargers.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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@angrypuppy After going round and round with you I did some googling. What I found says your concept is more in line with a playmaker in football than mine. As I've said in the past when I'm wrong I'll admit it. I'm not an Internet Warrior bent on winning debates and not admitting when I'm in error. Ain't no shame in my game.
| Quote: | | In association football, a playmaker is a player who controls the flow of the team's play, and is often involved in offensive play passing moves which lead to goals, through their vision, technique, ball control, creativity and passing ability. |
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | @angrypuppy After going round and round with you I did some googling. What I found says your concept is more in line with a playmaker in football than mine. As I've said in the past when I'm wrong I'll admit it. I'm not an Internet Warrior bent on winning debates and not admitting when I'm in error. Ain't no shame in my game.
| Quote: | | In association football, a playmaker is a player who controls the flow of the team's play, and is often involved in offensive play passing moves which lead to goals, through their vision, technique, ball control, creativity and passing ability. |
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The very poll you authored invalidates your position: If a pocket-passing QB isn't the model of playmaking, then why did you publish the name of Tom Brady in your poll? This contradiction demonstrates your misapprehension about what constitutes a playmaker in football.
I'm sorry, but your position on playmaking is a contradiction. You created a definition and then abandoned on the fly because it didn't yield the answer you were seeking. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | Why did Brady have that ten year drought in the middle of his career? He could have ten or more rings if not for that. |
Because team sports are team games. The last SB was the Bucs defense vs the Chiefs defense, I scored big time on the under. Brady didn’t have the roster to compete every season, that says nothing about him. Turnover is one reason that there are few repeat NFL champions and why the sport is so popular.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | @angrypuppy After going round and round with you I did some googling. What I found says your concept is more in line with a playmaker in football than mine. As I've said in the past when I'm wrong I'll admit it. I'm not an Internet Warrior bent on winning debates and not admitting when I'm in error. Ain't no shame in my game.
| Quote: | | In association football, a playmaker is a player who controls the flow of the team's play, and is often involved in offensive play passing moves which lead to goals, through their vision, technique, ball control, creativity and passing ability. |
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The very poll you authored invalidates your position: If a pocket-passing QB isn't the model of playmaking, then why did you publish the name of Tom Brady in your poll? This contradiction demonstrates your misapprehension about what constitutes a playmaker in football.
I'm sorry, but your position on playmaking is a contradiction. You created a definition and then abandoned on the fly because it didn't yield the answer you were seeking. |
Damn man!  I said I was wrong what da hell else do you want? You won the debate leave it there. LINK
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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DELETED WRONG THREAD. jodeke
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | Who has the better legacy— Brady or Michael Jordan? Brady now has one more ring in a sport in which it is more difficult to win. |
I lean Jordan....just because of his impact on culture....if that is the right word to use. I mean we tried to emulate Jordan on and off the court. We copied his moves down to the tongue sticking out on blacktops around the country....then we went to school wearing shoes with his name on them and even copying his style. I know you know someone that wore the Jordan Tuxedo to Junior High Prom....LOL. Does anyone try to copy anything specific about Brady? Jordan turned the NBA into a global brand, and was part of growing basketball internationally.
I am now a big Brady fan because he plays for my team.....but people will be wearing Jordan's long after Brady has taken off his shoulder pads. I am not even sure we can assign credit to Brady for growing the NFL or football within this country. |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Why did Brady have that ten year drought in the middle of his career? He could have ten or more rings if not for that. |
Because team sports are team games. The last SB was the Bucs defense vs the Chiefs defense, I scored big time on the under. Brady didn’t have the roster to compete every season, that says nothing about him. Turnover is one reason that there are few repeat NFL champions and why the sport is so popular. |
NY Giants happened or TB be looking to complete both hands this season |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: |
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This is playmaking in football:
Here's the sequence of events:
1. The original playcall from the huddle was for Gronk to run a certain route.
2. Dallas shifted their defense shortly before the snap, sending up a LB to either press Gronk or pass rush Brady.
3. Brady then used the audible to call for Gronk to forget the route and pass block.
4. Dallas shifted their defense again, sending a second LB to face Gronk. Gronk now had 2 LBs in his face.
5. Brady changed the play again in the audible. Dallas was surrendering coverage for pressure; the defense was shallow, it was a Cover Zero (no man high). Brady called out in the audible for Gronk to do a chip block and run a simple inside 2 yard slant. That way the LB wouldn't have time to get to Brady and Gronk would own the middle of the field.
Result: TD by Gronk. |
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