My instinct is to say "He was a good player, but not a Hall of Famer." Cooper was never an all-star and was never all-NBA, but he did make the all-defense team a number of times. He was DPoY once, but so was Mark Eaton (twice, and an all-star once) and Alvin Robertson (once, and also a four time all-star and all-NBA once).
But the sad truth is that the Basketball Hall of Fame has no meaningful standards. So what's the real case for Cooper? He played on title teams with Magic and Kareem. Okay. It seems like the whole freaking roster of the '60s Celtics (including reserves) is in the Hall of Fame. So why not Cooper? _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Right place, right time? Politically, it helps that Cooper spent much of his post-playing days supporting women's hoops, even though his nomination is for his playing career I think. He gets a huge "fame" boost for playing on a famous team. Defense wins titles, and he was that team's best defender. Larry Bird called him the best defender, so that's another important fame boost.
Stats wise, not really much to speak of. Maybe had the most playoff three-pointers in the 80s. Is he the only bench player to win DPOY? Skills wise, he was a Swiss army knife on the court.
Whatever gets his Lakers jersey in the rafters at Staples, I suppose. Cooper deserves that long overdue honor. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
To me, the case for Cooper is if you decide you want to put in guys who were great defensive players. and that's cool. There are guys in the Hall for nor the reason than they were great offensive players
But if Cooper is a Hall of Famer, then to me Bruce Bowen and Tony Allen are as well. And probably Andre Robertson, Ben Wallace, Mark Eaton, Draymond Green, and Ron Artest.
So that's my litmus test. If that group doesn't sound like a bunch of Hall of Famers, then Cooper probably doesn't deserve to be in the Hall either. But I get that, like a lot of these Celtics from the 60s, he might get extra credit for the reflected glory and luck of having Magic, Kareem, etc as teammates.
The Hall has been letting in so many borderline guys I'm pretty indifferent to it as an institution. We're at a point now that the borderline for being in or out has moved all the way down to Shawn Marion
Yes to Draymond Green for his unique combination of defense, ball handling, and passing. Helps to be part of a team that will be remembered historically.
I'd imagine playing for the Yankees, Canadiens, Packers, etc, have helped some individuals make the HOF in other sports. I don't really have a problem with that.
Probably Yes to Mark Eaton. Don't think so for the others. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
What is this Cooper for hall of fame nonsense. Objectively speaking, he wasnt even better than Byron Scott at his prime/peak....you know the guy who started ahead of Cooper and who actually led the Showtime Lakers in scoring for 1 year and usually guarded the quicker guard. How many of you would really believe Cooper is a hall of famer if he wasnt a Laker??? NO
To me, the case for Cooper is if you decide you want to put in guys who were great defensive players. and that's cool. There are guys in the Hall for nor the reason than they were great offensive players
But if Cooper is a Hall of Famer, then to me Bruce Bowen and Tony Allen are as well. And probably Andre Robertson, Ben Wallace, Mark Eaton, Draymond Green, and Ron Artest.
So that's my litmus test. If that group doesn't sound like a bunch of Hall of Famers, then Cooper probably doesn't deserve to be in the Hall either. But I get that, like a lot of these Celtics from the 60s, he might get extra credit for the reflected glory and luck of having Magic, Kareem, etc as teammates.
The Hall has been letting in so many borderline guys I'm pretty indifferent to it as an institution. We're at a point now that the borderline for being in or out has moved all the way down to Shawn Marion
I’d remove Andre Roberson and Tony Allen from that list, but other than that I don’t think giving defensive specialists who have won the DPOY award or become champions multiple times their due would be such a huge disappointment for the hall. The rest of those guys you mentioned either won the DPOY multiple times, was an all star at least once, or won multiple championships.
(I’m also just being selfish and would love to see Coop’s jersey finally in the rafters. I think he’d be fine going to the hall especially with some of the Celtic old timers who made it in solely on being part of their old dynasty.)
As much as I loved Coop, I don't think he will get in. I mean if he does, so too should Horry, no? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6285 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:08 am Post subject:
I think if Coop gets in, its for his coaching the Sparks and being an advocate for women's basketball. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
As much as I loved Coop, I don't think he will get in. I mean if he does, so too should Horry, no?
If Horry gets in it would be for a different set of criteria I think since he jumped to different teams. I love Horry but I don’t think he has enough individual accomplishments to get in.
Justification for Coop (not counting his coaching stints) would be his DPOY, 8x all defense, and being a key part of the legendary Showtime team which not only won 5 championships but also was a huge part of the NBA’s evolution. I know he’s not a multiple all star or anything and yes I am a biased Laker fan but not many all stars can boast being part of a historical team while winning individual accolades (I mean if T-Mac can get in, I’d be able to sleep at night with Coop getting in).
Coop was my boy back then. His defense on the hick from french lick was the work of a skilled craftsman. That said, personally, I don't see it.
Yes, he was a great defensive player, but that doesn't equate to the greatness of the players he played along side with like KAJ & Magic. They were the first picks in their drafts for a reason, just as Coop was a third round pick for a reason. Love the guy, but he's not hall worthy in my estimation.
Question: are there any 2nd or 3rd round picks in the HOF?
To me, the case for Cooper is if you decide you want to put in guys who were great defensive players. and that's cool. There are guys in the Hall for nor the reason than they were great offensive players
But if Cooper is a Hall of Famer, then to me Bruce Bowen and Tony Allen are as well. And probably Andre Robertson, Ben Wallace, Mark Eaton, Draymond Green, and Ron Artest.
So that's my litmus test. If that group doesn't sound like a bunch of Hall of Famers, then Cooper probably doesn't deserve to be in the Hall either. But I get that, like a lot of these Celtics from the 60s, he might get extra credit for the reflected glory and luck of having Magic, Kareem, etc as teammates.
The Hall has been letting in so many borderline guys I'm pretty indifferent to it as an institution. We're at a point now that the borderline for being in or out has moved all the way down to Shawn Marion
I’d remove Andre Roberson and Tony Allen from that list, but other than that I don’t think giving defensive specialists who have won the DPOY award or become champions multiple times their due would be such a huge disappointment for the hall. The rest of those guys you mentioned either won the DPOY multiple times, was an all star at least once, or won multiple championships.
(I’m also just being selfish and would love to see Coop’s jersey finally in the rafters. I think he’d be fine going to the hall especially with some of the Celtic old timers who made it in solely on being part of their old dynasty.)
Byron Scott was great guy to cheer for, but I'm not sure there are aspects to his career or game that scream HOF. IOW, is there anything that stands out? But perhaps there's oversight on my part.
For Cooper, I don't think many question that his defense was HOF level. He was one of the better 3-pt shooters of his era. Usually played well in Finals competition too. Being a bench player (mostly), having played only for the Lakers, and being one of the three guys from that era with 5 rings, are helpful to the narrative too. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
The basketball HOF isn't just the NBA HOF. International play, amateur and women's basketeball is also taken into account when it comes to evaluating a HOF career.
If we were just looking at his NBA stats, he probably doesn't get in. But he was also a WNBA coach of the year and 2 time WNBA champion.
He was a head coach at USC and even won an NBA development league championship.
Looking at what he's accomplished over his 30+ year basketball life, I think he more than deserves to at least be considered for enshrinement.
The basketball HOF isn't just the NBA HOF. International play, amateur and women's basketeball is also taken into account when it comes to evaluating a HOF career.
If we were just looking at his NBA stats, he probably doesn't get in. But he was also a WNBA coach of the year and 2 time WNBA champion.
He was a head coach at USC and even won an NBA development league championship.
Looking at what he's accomplished over his 30+ year basketball life, I think he more than deserves to at least be considered for enshrinement.
It doesn't quite work like that. Yes, the Hall honors a lot of different categories of players.
However, if you are nominated as a player, you are supposed to be judged by your playing career. If you are nominated as a coach, you are supposed to be judged by your coaching career.
So as a finalist for induction as a player, Cooper's coaching career should be irrelevant.
For Cooper, I don't think many question that his defense was HOF level. He was one of the better 3-pt shooters of his era.
What does it even mean to say that his defense was HoF level? He was a good defender. There have been a lot of good defenders. Mark Eaton and Alvin Robertson were his contemporaries. They have comparable defensive credentials, but they also made the all-star team (four times in the case of Robertson). They have never been nominated for the HoF.
He was one of the better three-point shooters of his era? He averaged 1.4 three point shots per game for his career, and he shot .340. That was above league average, but so what? He averaged 8.9 ppg for his career and only hit double digits twice.
If he makes the Hall of Fame, it will be because pretty much everyone on the Lakers and Celtics during that era is in the Hall. I'm fine with that. The Hall of Fame really doesn't have any meaningful standards anyway. The '60s Celtics are even more ridiculous. Look up K.C. Jones' stats sometime. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35813 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:28 am Post subject:
nevitt_smrek wrote:
I tend to agree with Pokoy's opinions on Cooper.
Byron Scott was great guy to cheer for, but I'm not sure there are aspects to his career or game that scream HOF. IOW, is there anything that stands out? But perhaps there's oversight on my part.
For Cooper, I don't think many question that his defense was HOF level. He was one of the better 3-pt shooters of his era. Usually played well in Finals competition too. Being a bench player (mostly), having played only for the Lakers, and being one of the three guys from that era with 5 rings, are helpful to the narrative too.
IMO when you consider Byron’s distinguished coaching career in conjunction with his playing career, he is HoF worthy. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21075 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 am Post subject:
Coop wasn't just along for the ride on all those titles, he helped win them. His defense was stellar throughout his NBA career.
As Pokoy said:
Quote:
Justification for Coop (not counting his coaching stints) would be his DPOY, 8x all defense, and being a key part of the legendary Showtime team which not only won 5 championships but also was a huge part of the NBA’s evolution.
I don't think it's a stretch, disappointment, or 'lower standard' at all to put Coop in the Hall of Fame. Just my opinion, subjective topic.
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