Lakers Time Machine: Go back and nix the Deng/Mozgov blunder
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Discoflux
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:06 am    Post subject: Lakers Time Machine: Go back and nix the Deng/Mozgov blunder

I was wondering what the Lakeshow would look like if we didn't have to undo Jim's bonehead moves. This is a lineup I would love to see.

PG: D'Angelo Russell
SG: Lebron James
SF: Brandon Ingram
PF: Julius Randle
C: Brook Lopez
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:31 am    Post subject:

Isn't that line-up very doable even with the blunder? We chose to renounce Julius to give the money to Rondo. You can't have both Russell and Lopez, since they were traded for each other.

Dude, they tried to give the money to LaMarcus Alridge, and he didn't take it. Luke was searching for his Bogut, which explains Mozgov, and Kobe liked Loul Deng. People were talking about how these moves have no effect on the growth of the kids, and it really didn't. Until Jeannie decided to take over and Maginka wanted to wheel and deal. Only then, did those contracts become an issue.

The boneheads here, in my book, were the fighting of the Buss kids with no game plan. Mitch's plan was about the kids, then when he was let go, Maginka was about NOW. I've said from day 1, unless, we get a chip out of this, it won't be worth it. But we did get a chip out of it, so everything has been worth it. It would be even more worth it, if AD plays like the guy who is on the cusp of the next level, not just another average all-star... so that we can get a few more banners.

Truthfully... Jim and Mitch had a tougher job than Jeannie. All Jeannie did was hand the keys to Maginka to do a reset and put all their chips into now, with no Kobe. If they didn't win a chip last year, and the way things are looking this year. What would have been the narrative around here? Mitch had to balanced building life after Kobe, as well as try to make roster moves in order for Kobe to compete in his last few years. And it was tough to do when Kobe was rewarded $48 million for 2 yrs and though he was worth it in terms of branding and showing an example of what an organization should do, he was not worth it on the court. It was tough, and I thought the hate for Mitch and Jim in the media and around here was too much.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:41 am    Post subject:

Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty happy about the championship.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:25 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty happy about the championship.


Idk, i feel like Lebron has one more year then we'll have AD with injury risks and a bunch of mid level talent guys. I'd rather have a crew of young talent with big upside and 3 years of experience under their belts.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject:

Discoflux wrote:
ocho wrote:
Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty happy about the championship.


Idk, i feel like Lebron has one more year then we'll have AD with injury risks and a bunch of mid level talent guys. I'd rather have a crew of young talent with big upside and 3 years of experience under their belts.


Nothing lasts forever. But the whole point of this is to win and we did. Upside is nice and all. It may even result in, ya know, a championship.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Time Machine: Go back and nix the Deng/Mozgov blunder

Discoflux wrote:
I was wondering what the Lakeshow would look like if we didn't have to undo Jim's bonehead moves. This is a lineup I would love to see.

PG: D'Angelo Russell
SG: Lebron James
SF: Brandon Ingram
PF: Julius Randle
C: Brook Lopez

this lineup doesn't win championship
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governator
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject:

U mean like we have an extra $5m to offer a buy out dude right this second
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:59 am    Post subject:

Discoflux wrote:
ocho wrote:
Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty happy about the championship.


Idk, i feel like Lebron has one more year then we'll have AD with injury risks and a bunch of mid level talent guys. I'd rather have a crew of young talent with big upside and 3 years of experience under their belts.


I get the fun and excitement around a "young" and "upcoming" team, and watching them grow, but this is a star-driven league. If there isn't a star among that group of kids, the team just rides the treadmill of mediocrity. You get nothing but first-round exits and overpaying for players who aren't real stars. What do you think the team would look like today if we got LaMarcus Aldridge, or DeMarr Derozan? Just look at what the Knicks have become since the Ewing days.

I liked watching the pre-Shaq/Kobe Lakers, but they were not going to win a damn thing. Being on the treadmill of mediocrity means they will never be bad enough to get any game changers through the draft without some serious luck in finding a hidden gem or a taking a risk on a guy who slides due to red flags (injury/character).

It's more enjoyable to win a championship when the talent is home-grown, but I would rather have the Lakers win the way they did this past season than to play the "there's always next year" game with young guys that never live up to their potential.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject:

I'd rather have AD.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Time Machine: Go back and nix the Deng/Mozgov blunder

Discoflux wrote:
I was wondering what the Lakeshow would look like if we didn't have to undo Jim's bonehead moves. This is a lineup I would love to see.

PG: D'Angelo Russell
SG: Lebron James
SF: Brandon Ingram
PF: Julius Randle
C: Brook Lopez



Russell, Ingram and Randle all blossomed because they got to the #1 guy on their teams. Anyone's guess how they would have developed in the shadow of Lebron, competing for the #2 spot.

I could imagine a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda outcomes from great success to an utter trainwreck.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:25 pm    Post subject:

I don't know man, I'm still fantasizing over championship possibilitiies if the Lakers had kept Norm Nixon rather than trade him for Byron Scott..
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Time Machine: Go back and nix the Deng/Mozgov blunder

Discoflux wrote:
I was wondering what the Lakeshow would look like if we didn't have to undo Jim's bonehead moves. This is a lineup I would love to see.

PG: D'Angelo Russell
SG: Lebron James
SF: Brandon Ingram
PF: Julius Randle
C: Brook Lopez


Russel, LBJ and Brook just don’t have it
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject:

LakerDynasty6.0 wrote:
I don't know man, I'm still fantasizing over championship possibilitiies if the Lakers had kept Norm Nixon rather than trade him for Byron Scott..


Biggest one was shaq, prob 3 more chips then Kobe get 2 more with his post Shaq ‘Pau’
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:22 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
Isn't that line-up very doable even with the blunder? We chose to renounce Julius to give the money to Rondo. You can't have both Russell and Lopez, since they were traded for each other.


Correct. The Mozgov and Deng signings really didn't limit us as much as some people want to think. In fact, you can make a case that Magic caused more damage by making poor decisions in a hasty effort to unwind those contracts. This particular dead horse has been well beaten.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:36 pm    Post subject:

Discoflux wrote:
ocho wrote:
Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty happy about the championship.


Idk, i feel like Lebron has one more year then we'll have AD with injury risks and a bunch of mid level talent guys. I'd rather have a crew of young talent with big upside and 3 years of experience under their belts.


Ridiculous. The number of teams with young talent in the league are many and varied, and very very very few of them ever win a ring. Look at the Celtics, who jealously hoarded all of their assets, drafted two young stars in Tatum and Brown, and drafted a great role player in Smart, and have not won a ring and don’t look to be anywhere close to winning a ring anytime soon barring some major injuries to teams ahead of them in the East right now. I had a bonanza of a time watching the Nick the Quick, Sedale Threatt, Anthony Peeler, and Eddie Jones Lakers back in the 90s, but that team was never going to win a ring.

People LOVE potential because they only ever think about the upside and how much better things could be. Reality often sucks, because it is reality. Potential could be anything! That’s why people obsess over rookies and bench guys not getting minutes when their team is struggling because, since they haven’t seen those guys playing, they can imagine how great they’d be instead of the guys actually playing. I love seeing BI, Zo, Hart, Randle, etc doing well with their teams, but if we had kept them all somehow we likely wouldn’t have won a ring last season and likely wouldn’t be in line to do so in the near future either.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject:

I feel like if we’d held onto Russell and Randle and drafted Tatum instead of Ball, we could have gotten AD a season earlier while holding onto a #3 guy.

Would New Orleans have given us AD for Randle, Russell, Kuzma, picks, and one of Tatum/Ingram in 2018-2019? Could have competed for a championship that year as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Discoflux wrote:
ocho wrote:
Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty happy about the championship.


Idk, i feel like Lebron has one more year then we'll have AD with injury risks and a bunch of mid level talent guys. I'd rather have a crew of young talent with big upside and 3 years of experience under their belts.



you'd rather have uncertainty and the promise of a POSSIBLE championship rather than 1 GUARANTEED chip?

Yikes.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:34 pm    Post subject:

Discoflux wrote:
ocho wrote:
Maybe it’s just me but I’m pretty happy about the championship.


Idk, i feel like Lebron has one more year then we'll have AD with injury risks and a bunch of mid level talent guys. I'd rather have a crew of young talent with big upside and 3 years of experience under their belts.


I'd rather have the championship and a chance at more than young guys who have upside.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:40 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
LakerDynasty6.0 wrote:
I don't know man, I'm still fantasizing over championship possibilitiies if the Lakers had kept Norm Nixon rather than trade him for Byron Scott..


Biggest one was shaq, prob 3 more chips then Kobe get 2 more with his post Shaq ‘Pau’


True! Norm was shipped away so Magic could run the Lakers and Shaq got similarly shipped away to let Kobe run the Lakers
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:00 pm    Post subject:

We had the cap space to sign Rus, Randle and Lopez to their current contracts if we wanted them. We didn't make offers.

If we hadn't stretched Deng, we might have been able to keep more in the AD trade.

MozDeng didn't kill us as much as people want to believe. It was the magic that came after that multiplied the cost. And we still got value for what we paid.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:52 pm    Post subject:

The trade that was really bad was the Steve Nash trade and the nixing of the Chris Paul trade. If I had a time machine, I would fix these two issues.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject:

Russell 30M.
Ingram 30M.
Randle 30M.
Lebron 40M.

So 120M in 4 players and then 3 of those 4 players have shown to be 1 time all-stars who may or may not come back there again, and meanwhile Bron when he has historically played with non-vet filled teams has underachieved.....

Yet that is better than having AD and a championship.

I am not saying this roster is perfect but:

Rather have Dennis at 16M than Russell at 30M.
Rather have AD at 35M than Ingram at 30M.
Rather have Trez at 10M than Randle at 30M.

Have been able to keep role players on the title run like Caruso, KCP, Kuz. Something when you add 130M to just your top 4, you're not going to be able to do.

Much rather have, the flexibility of keeping getting better, keeping the role players who support Bron/AD, using the MLE, and not being so way over the cap, that you're not able to make moves to keep getting better.

Just 5 months ago, AD and Bron went 16-5 to win a championship where no team even took them to the point where they really felt in trouble in the series. They were that good.

The love fest for the young guys that never won (bleep), and continue to never win (bleep), is just puzzling to me. DLO just teamed up with KAT, Beasley. They're one of the worst teams in the NBA (Don't just blame DLO, but still). Ingram and Zion (and Ball) are 14-19. Thibs elite defensive coaching has the Knicks competitive and major props to Randle, but lets see how Randle does the minute he has a second star to have to share the ball with.

All in all, I am sure the minute LA stops winning in the playoffs, some will turn on AD, kinda like how the same thought LA gave up too much to get him. Of course not recalling how miserable the 6 years where we did not even come close to the playoffs were. I do not miss the Jeremy Lin, Nick Young years. I liked some of our young players, but not to the point where I thought paying them 30+M a year around Bron makes sense. Once we signed Bron, everything changed. We needed to win NOW. And we did. There was never going to be a win now with Ingram, Randle, Ball, DLO etc. Why? These guys need to learn how to win. And that takes years, and young players have those years, but Bron did not.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:25 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Russell 30M.
Ingram 30M.
Randle 30M.
Lebron 40M.

So 120M in 4 players and then 3 of those 4 players have shown to be 1 time all-stars who may or may not come back there again, and meanwhile Bron when he has historically played with non-vet filled teams has underachieved.....

Yet that is better than having AD and a championship.


Some of you have gotten so invested in this argument that you don’t really address the opposing viewpoint and instead argue based on straw men. The real question is whether it was worth it to become the latest franchise for Team Lebron and to jettison our young players and most of our future draft picks. The answer will depend on (1) how many titles we get from Lebron, and (2) what happens after Lebron fades or retires. Some people will say that last year’s title was enough to make it all worthwhile. That’s a reasonable viewpoint, but many of us want to see how things play out before we pass judgment.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Russell 30M.
Ingram 30M.
Randle 30M.
Lebron 40M.

So 120M in 4 players and then 3 of those 4 players have shown to be 1 time all-stars who may or may not come back there again, and meanwhile Bron when he has historically played with non-vet filled teams has underachieved.....

Yet that is better than having AD and a championship.


Some of you have gotten so invested in this argument that you don’t really address the opposing viewpoint and instead argue based on straw men. The real question is whether it was worth it to become the latest franchise for Team Lebron and to jettison our young players and most of our future draft picks. The answer will depend on (1) how many titles we get from Lebron, and (2) what happens after Lebron fades or retires. Some people will say that last year’s title was enough to make it all worthwhile. That’s a reasonable viewpoint, but many of us want to see how things play out before we pass judgment.


Future draft picks is a good argument, if the later ones are high 1st rd picks but as far as traded players, we have to take into account also if they were replaceable and have been replaced. Out of all the young players we traded, BI might be the only one that can be argued is not replaceable. Randle, Hart, DLo, JC, Svi, Moe, Zubac... I think we can and in most case have replaced them with comparable players (arguably of course). This is why to me this trade is a win win for both teams at worst and because outside of Bron, Gasol, Kief, Dudley and Wes, all our players are under 30, I don’t feel we have ‘mortgaged’ our team for LeBron. Not to mention the trade has already produced one championship and is still contending.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:59 pm    Post subject:

The Deng and Mozgov signings were such a dumb and unnecessary mistake. And it's not one of those things where you can say, "hindsight is 20/20, in the moment though it was popular, defend-able, or appeared competent".

No in the moment, the day of those signings, the consensus was "what the (bleep)"? That amount of money? That amount of years? For those guys?

I've seen people try to blame Jeannie for putting pressure on Jim and Mitch to build a winning team. That's like blaming a professor for failing a class that was passable for others. We had something like the worst or 2nd worst record of all teams in the league the final 4-5 years of that FO's tenure.

People talk about Magic's tenure like it was a disgrace. He did something in 1 offseason Jim and Mitch failed at for the preceding 1/2 decade. Sign an allstar free agent. Not to mention it being the best player in the league. The minority thought we'd get Lebron. And even a smaller minority thought LBJ would come, even if he was coming alone without another star (PG13).
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