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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:11 am    Post subject:

Robinhood was making money the same way other discount brokers were operating. There's a sleazy practice where they route orders to their preferred exchange (like the infamous Cincinnati Stock Exchange) were they squeeze Mr. and Mrs. Main Street with ugly spreads. The better discount brokers sent your order directly to a NASDAQ or the NYSE, but people hated the commission dollars. One way or the other, the brokerages are going to make their nick.

What's funny is that I'm not a fan of our capital markets. The capital markets impart considerable social value in that existing companies need money to do useful things, and to reward entrepreneurs wishing to either cash out or grow their puppy further. That being said, we've proselytized liquidity as if it is the goal for capital markets, and used that rational to turn them into one massive Monte Carlo Casino. The bad news is that sometimes the house loses, and we all collectively fund the house with our tax dollars and national debt.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Love this:

San Antonio 10-year-old cashes in on GameStop stocks he was gifted 2 years ago

When Jaydyn Carr unwrapped his GameStop shares his mom gifted him for Kwanzaa two years ago, neither mother nor son expected he'd eventually be in the middle of a stock surge.

Stock talks this week are centering on small investors, but Jaydyn might be the smallest and youngest, at least in San Antonio. He became a GameStock shareholder on Dec. 30, 2019, when he was eight, long before Reddit users combined and skyrocketed the prices of the struggling gaming company's shares from single to triple digits, blindsiding Wall Street. The now 10-year-old fifth grader is reeling from the excitement of selling his first set of stocks amid the GameStop trading frenzy.

Nina, Jaydyn's mom, said her son is her "duplicate" and learns alongside her, even about trading. For Kwanzaa 2019, she wanted to give her son a gift reflective of Ujamaa, one of the seven principles of the festival which focuses on cooperative economics. Nina bought Jaydyn 10 GameStop shares for $6 each and printed off a certificate she found online to give him something to unwrap. The smile he flashed in the 2019 holiday photo is even bigger now, after selling for a little under $3,200 Wednesday morning.

"My phone was going off, because I have GameStop on my watch list," the mother said of watching prices skyrocket. "I was trying to explain to him that this was unusual, I asked him 'Do you want to stay or sell?'"

While even adults are asking for stock-savvy friends to explain the situation to them, Jaydyn said he wasn't at all confused by his mom's urgency or what was going on.

"Any time I learn something, I show him as well," Nina said. "I wanted to pass on the knowledge I have now because I learned it late in life. I want to give him a step up."

The mother-son investing duo said $2,200 of the funds are going to Jaydyn's savings account. They've decided to leave $1,000 out to invest in more.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:48 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
Robinhood was making money the same way other discount brokers were operating. There's a sleazy practice where they route orders to their preferred exchange (like the infamous Cincinnati Stock Exchange) were they squeeze Mr. and Mrs. Main Street with ugly spreads. The better discount brokers sent your order directly to a NASDAQ or the NYSE, but people hated the commission dollars. One way or the other, the brokerages are going to make their nick.

What's funny is that I'm not a fan of our capital markets. The capital markets impart considerable social value in that existing companies need money to do useful things, and to reward entrepreneurs wishing to either cash out or grow their puppy further. That being said, we've proselytized liquidity as if it is the goal for capital markets, and used that rational to turn them into one massive Monte Carlo Casino. The bad news is that sometimes the house loses, and we all collectively fund the house with our tax dollars and national debt.


Yeah the idea of funding new ventures or new ventures growing by going public, holding (and taking dividends) and at some point selling positions all makes sense to the economy, but the whole thing now is a pile of derivatives and games that just sucks money out of the economy and traps it in the casino where the sharks sooner or later extract most of it from the fish, and of course do nothing valuable or productive with it, relatively speaking.

I remember an interview with Jack Welch where he pointed out that GE, like most companies, was ruled by the short term stock price and that the fundamentals of what made it a blue chip to begin with didn’t matter much any more.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LakesGnrLake wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
brb, gonna go invest my life savings into tulips and Hot Topic.

Update: reddit user 2ftd0nkeyd0ng2867 is telling us all to hold the line on HOTT

Update: reading about blockchain. Have you guys heard of this?


I'm hoping this funnels everyone to crypto and DeFi after this fiasco.

It's all a con game. The only way to win is to not play by their rules.

Update: my wife wants a divorce, but I'm sure this will blow over. I'll be posting from the La Quinta near the highway for a little bit.

Update: working with some new online friends I made on 8chan to pool our dogecoin and buy options on Build-A-Bear Workshop, Inc. You guys should jump in so we can squeeze the new Porsches out of these HF fat cats.

Update: hold the line, you (bleep)! Buy the dip! Selling is for (bleep)!

HOLD*THE*LINE
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
“Moderating WSB has taught us that retail investors can be every bit as sophisticated as institutional investors, and, in some cases, even more so. We have researchers, mathematicians, momentum traders, gamblers, and so much more.”


https://tinyurl.com/8pdp4tbd

One thing I do like about the mods at that sub. Is that none of them or invested in GME. They say it's that way so they are beyond reproach.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:08 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
"Scott... I love you... be on the right side of history big boy, be on the right side of history" - Chamath Palihapitiya

Quote:

“As long as we’re allowing companies to trade stocks in milliseconds, how can we expect this to be an investors market?”
“Until you change that, you can’t change what’s happening with WallStreetBets.” - Mark Cuban

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:09 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
CNBC@CNBC· 1h
Robinhood is now limiting trading on 50 stocks, including Beyond Meat, GM and Starbucks. @Kr00ney
reports. http://cnb.cx/3r7rZ1w

https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/1355266992568115200

If Robinhood's IPO still comes out. I'm shorting that thing heavy. But I doubt I'll get the chance.
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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:34 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Quote:
“Moderating WSB has taught us that retail investors can be every bit as sophisticated as institutional investors, and, in some cases, even more so. We have researchers, mathematicians, momentum traders, gamblers, and so much more.”


https://tinyurl.com/8pdp4tbd

One thing I do like about the mods at that sub. Is that none of them or invested in GME. They say it's that way so they are beyond reproach.





I remember Burton Malkiel stating that a blindfolded monkey would be as effective as a Wall Street equities analyst at selecting stocks. He was somewhat right, it's pretty random, and what you think you know about a stock is either wrong, or if you're right, that info is already priced into the current price of the stock.

You could take apart financial statements and look for clues that something is better or worse (usually the latter) than the consensus opinion, but A) You'd have to know how to read financial statements (most do not); B) Most financial statements of public companies are not particularly informative; and C) You'd spend an incredible number of time and have trouble finding anything conclusive. Besides, financial statements are by definition history, they frequently lack predictability is you're looking for a "buy" signal.

Equities research is biased as hell. Look at all the buy recommendations and the very few sell or hold recommendations. The investment banks hate jeopardizing client management or potential client management by saying bad things about the management of a poorly run company. To really take apart companies in depth, you'd need a team going through public and non-public information and collaborating together. That's not how equities research is conducted on Wall Street. That's too much manpower. Besides, the equities analyst is frequently a glorified sales guy or a key sales support guy. It isn't any better on the buy side, in fact it's worse.

The Reddit crowd probably has low internal standards when it comes to research, and based on their track record, have an inflated view of their abilities. Wall Street is cringe-worthy in its own right, but the Reddit crowd will screw themselves in the long run. There are too many opportunities for Reddit folk to play pump and dump with one another. They collectively make our domestic market behave like Asian equities markets, which are notoriously rumor driven. That means buy if you're sure the rumor is true, and get out before the other fools start selling. And Asian traders start rumors on their own once they develop some credibility.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Quote:
“Moderating WSB has taught us that retail investors can be every bit as sophisticated as institutional investors, and, in some cases, even more so. We have researchers, mathematicians, momentum traders, gamblers, and so much more.”


https://tinyurl.com/8pdp4tbd

One thing I do like about the mods at that sub. Is that none of them or invested in GME. They say it's that way so they are beyond reproach.





I remember Burton Malkiel stating that a blindfolded monkey would be as effective as a Wall Street equities analyst at selecting stocks. He was somewhat right, it's pretty random, and what you think you know about a stock is either wrong, or if you're right, that info is already priced into the current price of the stock.

You could take apart financial statements and look for clues that something is better or worse (usually the latter) than the consensus opinion, but A) You'd have to know how to read financial statements (most do not); B) Most financial statements of public companies are not particularly informative; and C) You'd spend an incredible number of time and have trouble finding anything conclusive. Besides, financial statements are by definition history, they frequently lack predictability is you're looking for a "buy" signal.

Equities research is biased as hell. Look at all the buy recommendations and the very few sell or hold recommendations. The investment banks hate jeopardizing client management or potential client management by saying bad things about the management of a poorly run company. To really take apart companies in depth, you'd need a team going through public and non-public information and collaborating together. That's not how equities research is conducted on Wall Street. That's too much manpower. Besides, the equities analyst is frequently a glorified sales guy or a key sales support guy. It isn't any better on the buy side, in fact it's worse.

The Reddit crowd probably has low internal standards when it comes to research, and based on their track record, have an inflated view of their abilities. Wall Street is cringe-worthy in its own right, but the Reddit crowd will screw themselves in the long run. There are too many opportunities for Reddit folk to play pump and dump with one another. They collectively make our domestic market behave like Asian equities markets, which are notoriously rumor driven. That means buy if you're sure the rumor is true, and get out before the other fools start selling. And Asian traders start rumors on their own once they develop some credibility.


I agree with everything you said besides the bolded.

The sub is called WallStreetBets. If someone comes asking for financial advice. They are advised to go to another subreddit like r/finance.

99.999% actually don't take themselves seriously. They make memes and call themselves autists, retards, and gambling degenerates. Self-deprecation is the motto there.

Unlike alot of hedge funds shorting though, they actually "reveal their books" in the moment to a certain degree. They take screenshots of their winnings (some were in when GME was way under $100) and losses (some have lost 6-7 figures and make fun of themselves).

Even if I wasn't a part of the people who made money on GME, I'd still harbor no ill will towards them. Risk, volatile markets, wild speculation all pre-dated the sub. And it will be around long after the sub loses steam.
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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:12 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Quote:
“Moderating WSB has taught us that retail investors can be every bit as sophisticated as institutional investors, and, in some cases, even more so. We have researchers, mathematicians, momentum traders, gamblers, and so much more.”


https://tinyurl.com/8pdp4tbd

One thing I do like about the mods at that sub. Is that none of them or invested in GME. They say it's that way so they are beyond reproach.





I remember Burton Malkiel stating that a blindfolded monkey would be as effective as a Wall Street equities analyst at selecting stocks. He was somewhat right, it's pretty random, and what you think you know about a stock is either wrong, or if you're right, that info is already priced into the current price of the stock.

You could take apart financial statements and look for clues that something is better or worse (usually the latter) than the consensus opinion, but A) You'd have to know how to read financial statements (most do not); B) Most financial statements of public companies are not particularly informative; and C) You'd spend an incredible number of time and have trouble finding anything conclusive. Besides, financial statements are by definition history, they frequently lack predictability is you're looking for a "buy" signal.

Equities research is biased as hell. Look at all the buy recommendations and the very few sell or hold recommendations. The investment banks hate jeopardizing client management or potential client management by saying bad things about the management of a poorly run company. To really take apart companies in depth, you'd need a team going through public and non-public information and collaborating together. That's not how equities research is conducted on Wall Street. That's too much manpower. Besides, the equities analyst is frequently a glorified sales guy or a key sales support guy. It isn't any better on the buy side, in fact it's worse.

The Reddit crowd probably has low internal standards when it comes to research, and based on their track record, have an inflated view of their abilities. Wall Street is cringe-worthy in its own right, but the Reddit crowd will screw themselves in the long run. There are too many opportunities for Reddit folk to play pump and dump with one another. They collectively make our domestic market behave like Asian equities markets, which are notoriously rumor driven. That means buy if you're sure the rumor is true, and get out before the other fools start selling. And Asian traders start rumors on their own once they develop some credibility.


I agree with everything you said besides the bolded.

The sub is called WallStreetBets. If someone comes asking for financial advice. They are advised to go to another subreddit like r/finance.

99.999% actually don't take themselves seriously. They make memes and call themselves autists, retards, and degenerates. Self-deprecation is the motto there.

Unlike the Wall Street shorters though, they actually take screenshots of their winnings (some were in when GME was way under $100) and losses (some have lost 6 figures and make fun of themselves).

Even if I wasn't a part of the people who made money on GME, I'd still harbor no ill will towards them. Risk, volatile markets, wild speculation all pre-dated the sub. And it will be around long after the sub loses steam.




I'm not trying to pee in your cheerios. It's just free advice. I worked on Wall Street, and no, I wasn't a retail stock broker.

I'm not a day trader which is as lucrative as being a blackjack player. What I'm remarking on is that quote that the WallStreetBets mod thinks the crowd is as sharp as Wall Street. Now if he worked in Sales & Trading at one of the larger investment banks, I will take that quote seriously, but I doubt that he has worked there. To me, he's blindly speculating on them, just as he's blindly speculating on stocks or options. There's a reason why index funds are the best bet, speculative guesses tend to be blind 50/50 propositions.

As I mentioned earlier, the Wall Street crowd (institutional investors, hedge funds, investment banks) may lack ethics and objectivity, but they do have better data, better analysts, better software, and better execution. It doesn't mean they always win, they make plenty of boneheaded moves, but the WSB is not on a level playing field with those guys. I'm throwing it out there as a warning to those who will get carried away with the intoxicating effects of a trading win.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:50 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
I'm not trying to pee in your cheerios. It's just free advice. I worked on Wall Street, and no, I wasn't a retail stock broker.

I'm not a day trader which is as lucrative as being a blackjack player. What I'm remarking on is that quote that the WallStreetBets mod thinks the crowd is as sharp as Wall Street. Now if he worked in Sales & Trading at one of the larger investment banks, I will take that quote seriously, but I doubt that he has worked there. To me, he's blindly speculating on them, just as he's blindly speculating on stocks or options. There's a reason why index funds are the best bet, speculative guesses tend to be blind 50/50 propositions.

As I mentioned earlier, the Wall Street crowd (institutional investors, hedge funds, investment banks) may lack ethics and objectivity, but they do have better data, better analysts, better software, and better execution. It doesn't mean they always win, they make plenty of boneheaded moves, but the WSB is not on a level playing field with those guys. I'm throwing it out there as a warning to those who will get carried away with the intoxicating effects of a trading win.


I agree. Although retail investors have more tools than ever before. And the gap in knowledge has tightened between them and institutions. They still don't possess equal tools.

Retail investors communicating and investing together does make them stronger than if they were separate. But it's still not a fair fight.

I heard on CNBC that the average duration of a trade last year was 40 seconds. The algo's institutions possess are another tool that gives them an advantage as well. And with time they'll factor in this new variable (moreso than they have now).
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:59 pm    Post subject:

AP, what is your take on the narrative CNBC has been pushing all week.

"Retail investors need to be protected from themselves."

"There are gonna be losers that are really going to get hurt" (ignoring the fact that if hedge funds succeeded in shorting GME to the ground people would've been hurt as well).

Haven't there always been winners and losers?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:08 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
AP, what is your take on the narrative CNBC has been pushing all week.

"Retail investors need to be protected from themselves."

"There are gonna be losers that are really going to get hurt" (ignoring the fact that if hedge funds succeeded in shorting GME to the ground people would've been hurt as well).

Haven't there always been winners and losers?


Retail day trading has been going on for close to two decades now.

Nobody cared about the "risks" to the general public until the average investors figured out they could be as big a player as the handful of hedge fund (bleep).
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
AP, what is your take on the narrative CNBC has been pushing all week.

"Retail investors need to be protected from themselves."

"There are gonna be losers that are really going to get hurt" (ignoring the fact that if hedge funds succeeded in shorting GME to the ground people would've been hurt as well).

Haven't there always been winners and losers?



It's patronizing as hell. What I'm afraid of seeing is having the playing field tilted even more strongly towards the hedge funds.

An actual trade is a zero sum game, though capital itself can disappear due to wild swings, which can kill liquidity. I'd like to see the market maker books open up to the public, and no more of these (bleep) exchanges that are designed to fleece the retail investor or trader.

What irks me is the poor oversight and regulation of the big boys. Long-Term Capital Management, Bear Stearns, et al can literally bet the bank. If the trade position wins, management and traders make out like bandits. If they lose, we the taxpayers pay. There's a serious agency problem, but that's the subject in another long-dead thread on banking.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:37 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
AP, what is your take on the narrative CNBC has been pushing all week.

"Retail investors need to be protected from themselves."

"There are gonna be losers that are really going to get hurt" (ignoring the fact that if hedge funds succeeded in shorting GME to the ground people would've been hurt as well).

Haven't there always been winners and losers?


Retail day trading has been going on for close to two decades now.

Nobody cared about the "risks" to the general public until the average investors figured out they could be as big a player as the handful of hedge fund (bleep).

Brain worms
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Want JP Morgan to crash? Buy silver

The Guardian
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:30 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Joe Weisenthal
@TheStalwart
An irony of this past week is that the $GME short squeeze, by causing funds to also liquidate their long positions, leading to declines at the index level, with particular pain in popular names (like $ARKK and big tech) made it a down arrow for most retail investors.

There’s almost certainly tons of people in the $GME trade specifically that lost more this week in the rest of their portfolio/401k than they made in $GME itself. But psychologically, probably still fun and worth it for them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:50 am    Post subject:

^I knew it was going to hurt me.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Quote:
Joe Weisenthal
@TheStalwart
An irony of this past week is that the $GME short squeeze, by causing funds to also liquidate their long positions, leading to declines at the index level, with particular pain in popular names (like $ARKK and big tech) made it a down arrow for most retail investors.

There’s almost certainly tons of people in the $GME trade specifically that lost more this week in the rest of their portfolio/401k than they made in $GME itself. But psychologically, probably still fun and worth it for them.


No such thing as a free lunch on Wall Street. Market was down because they had to sell their good stocks to make up the short fall. On the other hand if you wanted to pick up some quality stocks that will perform in the long run, this week was a buy opportunity.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:15 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^I knew it was going to hurt me.


Pretty sure I’m going to buy some funds that dipped.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I knew it was going to hurt me.


Pretty sure I’m going to buy some funds that dipped.


Good time for long term investors, or simply hold and you will be fine.

Seems the WSB coverage is mostly low hanging fruit that the media is attracted to - it's a network effect taking advantage of a a ridiculous short.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I knew it was going to hurt me.


Pretty sure I’m going to buy some funds that dipped.


Good time for long term investors, or simply hold and you will be fine.

Seems the WSB coverage is mostly low hanging fruit that the media is attracted to - it's a network effect taking advantage of a a ridiculous short.


The way CNBC talks about GME and WSB is very similar to the way they talked about Tesla and Bitcoin in the past.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:45 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I knew it was going to hurt me.


Pretty sure I’m going to buy some funds that dipped.


Yep, good thing I left money on the sideline.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:46 am    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I knew it was going to hurt me.


Pretty sure I’m going to buy some funds that dipped.


Good time for long term investors, or simply hold and you will be fine.

Seems the WSB coverage is mostly low hanging fruit that the media is attracted to - it's a network effect taking advantage of a a ridiculous short.


Some of the guys from CNBC were guests on the YT vids that I watch. Getting ratings is one thing, doing smart market stuff is another.

Happily avoided GME and all that other stuff.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
lakers0505 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^I knew it was going to hurt me.


Pretty sure I’m going to buy some funds that dipped.


Good time for long term investors, or simply hold and you will be fine.

Seems the WSB coverage is mostly low hanging fruit that the media is attracted to - it's a network effect taking advantage of a a ridiculous short.


The way CNBC talks about GME and WSB is very similar to the way they talked about Tesla and Bitcoin in the past.


I've said it a million times and I'll say it a million more, the MSM...ALL OF THEM aren't working for the common person.
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