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crazylakerfan001
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 Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Start Morris alongside AD
Bring Marc and Trezz off the bench |
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ducasse
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| crazylakerfan001 wrote: | Start Morris alongside AD
Bring Marc and Trezz off the bench |
Marc probably should come off the bench until he gets into better physical condition. Seems like he's starting out of respect to what he has accomplished in his career. |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | HermosaJoe wrote: | | troy wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | I don't see a problem with not re-signing Dwight. Harrell was obviously an upgrade on him
We just need someone that's a bit more athletic than Gasol, plus a good defender, to be an 11th man of sorts. If Dieng gets bought out, he comes to mind |
Harrell is an upgrade over Howard on offense and a downgrade on defense. They bring different thing on the table. The thing is with the offensive power we have from Schroeder, Kuzma and THT, I start to think maybe Howard’s defense will be more valuable to this team than Harrell’s offense |
Perfectly stated. We won last year with our defensive presence. We have enough offensive firepower. The question I still can't get anyone to answer is why did we disrupt a winning formula? And what was with the strange Instagram post from Dwight telling Laker fans he was "back home where he belongs" with us, and then minutes later, the post was deleted? And in what universe is Marc Gasol a better defensive option (or even offensive) to Dwight Howard?
We have been star struck by Pelinka, and we're still in trust-mode from winning it all last season. But the truth is, somebody in the Laker front office f'd up royally letting McGee/Howard walk out the door. As a Lakers fan, I hope I'm wrong. I hope Marc Gasol prove me wrong. I will pay close attention to him in the next few games... |
Troy, your comments are also perfectly stated! |
Yeah, I concur, Troy. I'm concerned, but I'll be very happy if the posters defending Marc as a defender are correct and my concerns are unfounded. |
Gasol has looked slow in preseason and montrezl looked small against ayton but we didn’t have enough fire power last season. Pretty big drop off with Lebron on the bench. Now we are the most versatile team in the league. I do hope gasol gets into better shape as season goes and Vogel device defensive plans that suits montrezl at the 5 better |
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slavavov
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'd love for use to have another athletic C who can block shots, run the floor and finish lob passes.
But do we really need another C to be a great defensive team? There's other ways to have an elite defense without having more than one elite shot blocker, right?
I trust coach Vogel to figure this out on the defensive end.
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4587
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | The point of my post was not so much a reflection of panic, but of my ongoing exasperation, if not anger, over Pelinka's failure to re-sign Howard, and to corrupt what was a winning formula.
I can understand letting Rondo go and upgrading at the point, or perhaps adding more scoring punch, or even letting D. Green go.
But we were fine at the center spot. We had rim protection, rebounding, and enough scoring, and we had championship proven healthy players that were very much affordable. Why change that? Why??
THAT is why I'm so pissed right now. |
I can't speak for anyone but me, but the reason I don't post sentiments similar to yours is because I pretty much feel the same way, BUT I can't do a da_n thing but vent.
I felt DH with AD, and sometimes McGee is what made us unique...and dominant. I'm not going to throw a foolish statement out here like "lets move on". It's a valid position, but again, not a thing we can do about it except wait for the finished product at the end of the year. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
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crackadon
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Joined: 11 Aug 2013
Posts: 1025
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
He has one of the worst contracts in the NBA at 27 mill a year (and has 3 seasons left on it, including this one). There's no way in hell Pelinka would make such a boneheaded move.
I keep suggesting Dewayne Dedmon, but there are some posters on here who don't support that move. Aside from possible locker room issues, wouldn't he be an improvement over Gasol defensively and mobility wise? |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| crackadon wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
He has one of the worst contracts in the NBA at 27 mill a year (and has 3 seasons left on it, including this one). There's no way in hell Pelinka would make such a boneheaded move.
I keep suggesting Dewayne Dedmon, but there are some posters on here who don't support that move. Aside from possible locker room issues, wouldn't he be an improvement over Gasol defensively and mobility wise? |
I keep wondering why Dedmon still hasn’t been signed yet by any 1. |
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Lakerwayne
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Joined: 14 Sep 2020
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Why not just sign Kyle oquinn? He’s not as fast and mobile like McGee and Howard (but still more than gasol) but he’s got size and length to protect the rim and rebound a little plus he can pass and playmake a little so he can play in some of the same spots as gasol on offense and he’s a good locker room guy as an 11th man or whatever |
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | I miss DH already.  |
Rob failed in not retaining him as far as I'm concerned...!
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:27 am Post subject: |
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All I want for Christmas is a decent replacement for Howard...and a Happy New Year. 
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M2K
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | I'd love for use to have another athletic C who can block shots, run the floor and finish lob passes.
But do we really need another C to be a great defensive team? There's other ways to have an elite defense without having more than one elite shot blocker, right?
I trust coach Vogel to figure this out on the defensive end. |
Do we need another C to be a great defensive team?
The answer is... it would definitely help.
If you are attacking the rim, would you prefer to face Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol?
If you are trying to defend someone attacking the rim, would you prefer Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol behind you?
Marc Gasol intimidates no one as a defender. Dwight Howard's presence has players "aware" of his shot blocking abilities before they even begin their drive to the basket.
The real question is... was it worth giving up an intimidating shot blocker, with real presence and Championship experience... for less than $3 million a year?
Most people would say... no.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
I would rather go after Myles Turner. Great contract, perfect fit (age, D, and good inside outside game) with AD, and is being misused. He is the type of player that a change of scenery will do wonders. His value has taken a hit (which is good for us). |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
I would rather go after Myles Turner. Great contract, perfect fit (age, D, and good inside outside game) with AD, and is being misused. He is the type of player that a change of scenery will do wonders. His value has taken a hit (which is good for us). |
I'd rather not. Soft.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | I'd love for use to have another athletic C who can block shots, run the floor and finish lob passes.
But do we really need another C to be a great defensive team? There's other ways to have an elite defense without having more than one elite shot blocker, right?
I trust coach Vogel to figure this out on the defensive end. |
Do we need another C to be a great defensive team?
The answer is... it would definitely help.
If you are attacking the rim, would you prefer to face Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol?
If you are trying to defend someone attacking the rim, would you prefer Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol behind you?
Marc Gasol intimidates no one as a defender. Dwight Howard's presence has players "aware" of his shot blocking abilities before they even begin their drive to the basket.
The real question is... was it worth giving up an intimidating shot blocker, with real presence and Championship experience... for less than $3 million a year?
Most people would say... no. |
The thing is, most of that value is in the RS. When it came to playoffs, Dwight did not play in 2 out of 4 series. That is the real truth, and even in the NBA Finals, by the end of the series, Vogel had to play AD full time at the 5. It became very apparent that the Lakers in order to win a ring, needed to play AD at the 5. Now even in that, you still need someone who can defend next to AD. You need someone physical. I do think Gasol can be that kind of guy in the playoffs. In the right match up.
Dwight or any athletic 5s value to us in the regular season, and that is where we will covet it. Once the playoffs roll, we begin to covet other things.
Still, I argued all off season we needed to prioritize two signings that we did not for some reason - Dwight and Rondo. HOF players who have skills you just can not teach. It is impossible to find role players for cheap to replace the HOF level skills those guys have. They may be role players now, but the skills are still with them, They will be missed, but it does not mean the Lakers can not win with what they have. They just have to find ways to play a bit differently, and run a bit different rotation. By playoffs, I believe AD will be a full time starting 5. Gasol will likely be anchoring our 2nd unit, and only be a situational starting 5. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Do we need another C to be a great defensive team?
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Not if it's any of these guys.
Kyle Anderson
Moses Brown
Tyson Chandler
Cheick Diallo
John Henson
Dewan Hernandez
Frank Kaminsky
Skal Labissiere
Ian Mahinmi
Kyle O'Quinn
Justin Patton
Ante Zizic
https://www.nba.com/freeagents/2020-tracker
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:27 am Post subject: |
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^
And AD, is our playoff starting 5.
Some of the best defense I have ever seen a Lakers playoff team play perhaps was that game 6 shutdown of the Heat in the Finals. It surpassed some of the incredible defense the 2010 Lakers team played against Boston in that tough series.
And the way we did it was with guys like AD starting at 5, Caruso in as defensive weapon, KCP, and Bron. The only guy we miss in that group is Danny Green who was a very smart and great communicator on D. You replace that with Wesley.
This should be our go to starting lineup in the playoffs for defense
AD
Bron
Wesley/KCP
KCP/Caruso
Caruso/Schroder
If Schroder shows he can be a lockdown guy, you probably can slide him interchange him with Caruso. You can probably sub Wes/KCP and KCP/Caruso. |
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M2K
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | M2K wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | I'd love for use to have another athletic C who can block shots, run the floor and finish lob passes.
But do we really need another C to be a great defensive team? There's other ways to have an elite defense without having more than one elite shot blocker, right?
I trust coach Vogel to figure this out on the defensive end. |
Do we need another C to be a great defensive team?
The answer is... it would definitely help.
If you are attacking the rim, would you prefer to face Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol?
If you are trying to defend someone attacking the rim, would you prefer Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol behind you?
Marc Gasol intimidates no one as a defender. Dwight Howard's presence has players "aware" of his shot blocking abilities before they even begin their drive to the basket.
The real question is... was it worth giving up an intimidating shot blocker, with real presence and Championship experience... for less than $3 million a year?
Most people would say... no. |
The thing is, most of that value is in the RS. When it came to playoffs, Dwight did not play in 2 out of 4 series. That is the real truth, and even in the NBA Finals, by the end of the series, Vogel had to play AD full time at the 5. It became very apparent that the Lakers in order to win a ring, needed to play AD at the 5. Now even in that, you still need someone who can defend next to AD. You need someone physical. I do think Gasol can be that kind of guy in the playoffs. In the right match up.
Dwight or any athletic 5s value to us in the regular season, and that is where we will covet it. Once the playoffs roll, we begin to covet other things.
Still, I argued all off season we needed to prioritize two signings that we did not for some reason - Dwight and Rondo. HOF players who have skills you just can not teach. It is impossible to find role players for cheap to replace the HOF level skills those guys have. They may be role players now, but the skills are still with them, They will be missed, but it does not mean the Lakers can not win with what they have. They just have to find ways to play a bit differently, and run a bit different rotation. By playoffs, I believe AD will be a full time starting 5. Gasol will likely be anchoring our 2nd unit, and only be a situational starting 5. |
Yes, Dwight only played in 2 of 4 playoff series... but that's the point. Teams need versatility in the playoffs because they are facing better teams.
Think of it this way, Denver kicked the Clips in the nuts by forcing and winning game 7. We put the Nuggets away in 5 games... thanks in no small part to putting Dwight on Jokic. Its those types of matchups that get teams to the finals.
For less than $3 million... it was a no brainer to bring Dwight back to have that much needed flexibility come playoff time.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | For less than $3 million... it was a no brainer to bring Dwight back to have that much needed flexibility come playoff time.
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Pretty sure everyone can agree on wanting Dwight back.
But it's still not fair to be that harsh on Gasol after game 1 of the regular season, especially after what Coach Vogel said and how Marc responded to questions either.
There's no center available right not that can do what Dwight does, so no, we don't need a center. You've got Harrell, you've got AD, you've got Morris (people keep forgetting this part), you've got Gasol.
That's the most center depth in the league, period.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:56 am Post subject: |
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M2K - Go look at the Dwight thread, and even if you know anything about me, look up 2012-14 posts on Dwight on LG with me. I am a huge fan of the guy's game he is major league impact when he wants and fits in. He definitely was a no brainer re-signing at the vet min plus raise which is what he was asking for. I do not think it was about that at all. I believe it's about this (Going to re-post my post from other thread)
| Quote: | This is just my own gut feeling, but I think initially right aftet the playoffs going into the offseason Rob 100% wanted Dwight back, and Dwight 100 percent wanted to come back. But then he spoke to Klutch, and realized that Trez was coming for MLE. Once he did that, I think part of the discussion with Klutch was Trez's role. Trez was not gonna get sat behind Dwight. If you look at what Dwight does, and what Trez does, it is quite the same how they would be used on both ends and what the role was. Now when Klutch starts to look at Vogel's coaching style, and minutes, easy to see how with Dwight, Vogel would often go with Dwight instead of Trez. It would have been a minute mess. Neither guy would get a lot of minutes but our team would have definitely been better, However agents don't care about stuff like that. So when Dwight's agent calls, they don't offer him a contract, knowing that they have to first get commitment from Trez. Dwight not certain of what is coming, goes with the team that is showing 100% interest.
I totally understand both sides here. To vilify Dwight is wrong. To vilify Rob is also wrong (assuming you believe in Trez). The only thing to debate here would be whether Trez will be an upgrade over Dwight? I think so, but we will see in 6 months.
I just think even if we don't repeat this year, having a roster of so many younger in prime players, makes us better for the longriun, that keeping all the same guys. Not only would keeping the same guys have not guaranteed a repeat, it would also mean if we don't repeat, we're kinda (bleep) in terms of trades and other moves. Now, even if we don't repeat, we can upgrade via trade. We have a lot more flexibility to make moves, especially for a 3rd star than we ever would have previously.
You add a 3rd star to an old Bron, in prime AD, and now you have a shot at a ring that wasn't coming with old Bron previously.
I think we made the right call in the longrun, but it remains to be seen if we made the right call in the immediate term. Rob's moves this past offseason were not just about the immediate, but also making sure that the Lakers can have a championship window with old Bron. Keeping guys like Dwight helps for this one year, but you gotta look at the longrun as well. In a perfect world we keep those vet role guys as well, but agents and the type of minutes these free agents will get, play a HUGE part in them signing. Trez was not coming here with Dwight, and Dwight was not gonna re-sign with Trez shown preference. That's just how the FA game works. I have no issue with it, I understand both the limitations of Trez and also the huge advantages in having him (both as a talented player, and longterm asset). |
You give LA the option of having Dwight, Trez, and then trading McGee to open up space for Gasol, they do all that in a heart beat. But it was never going to be like that. Free agents and their agents get involved and they want to have a situation where guys get respected, guys get minutes, etc. This was a situation where the Lakers picked the younger player with better trade value and a longterm move, over a short term older player. In my opinion there was never a Trez + Dwight option. It was Trez or Dwight. Both guys were looking for the same role and their agents knew as much. Think of it as acting, auditioning. And the part was won by Trez. Remember, Dwight never got an actual offer. With reason, Klutch would never have sent Trez to LAL with Dwight here. |
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LakerDYnasty72
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4587
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | I'd love for use to have another athletic C who can block shots, run the floor and finish lob passes.
But do we really need another C to be a great defensive team? There's other ways to have an elite defense without having more than one elite shot blocker, right?
I trust coach Vogel to figure this out on the defensive end. |
Do we need another C to be a great defensive team?
The answer is... it would definitely help.
If you are attacking the rim, would you prefer to face Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol?
If you are trying to defend someone attacking the rim, would you prefer Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol behind you?
Marc Gasol intimidates no one as a defender. Dwight Howard's presence has players "aware" of his shot blocking abilities before they even begin their drive to the basket.
The real question is... was it worth giving up an intimidating shot blocker, with real presence and Championship experience... for less than $3 million a year?
Most people would say... no. |
I need one simple question answered from you, or anyone else who knows a da_n thing.
Did we "give up", surrender, screw around with, or anything else with Dwight, or did just have a "knee jerk reaction" to something he didn't like as some describe it, and just decided to leave? |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | crackadon wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
He has one of the worst contracts in the NBA at 27 mill a year (and has 3 seasons left on it, including this one). There's no way in hell Pelinka would make such a boneheaded move.
I keep suggesting Dewayne Dedmon, but there are some posters on here who don't support that move. Aside from possible locker room issues, wouldn't he be an improvement over Gasol defensively and mobility wise? |
I keep wondering why Dedmon still hasn’t been signed yet by any 1. |
I think when injuries hit, he will be one of the first guys signed. But at first glance the reasons I think he is out of the league at the moment
1- Attitude (asked for a trade, high maintenance guy for a role player)
2- His 3 point shot is supposed to be his main value, yet last year he shot the ball vey poorly
3- His second biggest value is his size, yet he didn't show he was effective using it last year |
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deal
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: |
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For whatever it's worth, Marc does not seem to be able to hold up for the entire season.
I did cringe when Dwight walked but that's done, can't fix it.
We will need a C and give him minutes. Obviously, Marc could probably use
rest for about 50% of the season, you want him for the PO's, which opens
up additional playing time.
Also, AD has been healthy but last season we had his back with DH
and Mc.
Dedmon? Someone else? Don't know but IMO, there's a need.
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7203
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
I would rather go after Myles Turner. Great contract, perfect fit (age, D, and good inside outside game) with AD, and is being misused. He is the type of player that a change of scenery will do wonders. His value has taken a hit (which is good for us). |
I'd rather not. Soft. |
I do not know what your definition of soft is. If you said he has digressed or has not lived up to his ENORMOUS potential, I could understand your point (hence I said his value has taken a hit and he needs a change of scenery). I can appreciate the fact that you do not like him. That being said, I see ZERO downside in acquiring a 24 year old 5 who is a stud defender (28th in the league in defensive rating), one of the league's best rim protectors, has a great contract, and has a excellent inside/outside game. His numbers clearly digressed because he played outside for the most part (more 3's, fewer inside shots, and fewer offensive rebounds). I can not knock a guy because the Pacers asked him to revamp his game because of Sabonis (I will not get into the Pacers decision). I just think he may be a PERFECT compliment to AD (especially with talk of AD taking his offensive game outside a little more this season). |
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RI Laker
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Posts: 7203
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | crackadon wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | We all know the Thunder & Lakers already did a trade with Schroeder going to the Lakers, not saying Gasol won’t be making a difference for us this year.. but any chance we can make a run at Al Horford? a AD/Horford/Trezz/Gasol front-court sounds nice. |
He has one of the worst contracts in the NBA at 27 mill a year (and has 3 seasons left on it, including this one). There's no way in hell Pelinka would make such a boneheaded move.
I keep suggesting Dewayne Dedmon, but there are some posters on here who don't support that move. Aside from possible locker room issues, wouldn't he be an improvement over Gasol defensively and mobility wise? |
I keep wondering why Dedmon still hasn’t been signed yet by any 1. |
I think when injuries hit, he will be one of the first guys signed. But at first glance the reasons I think he is out of the league at the moment
1- Attitude (asked for a trade, high maintenance guy for a role player)
2- His 3 point shot is supposed to be his main value, yet last year he shot the ball vey poorly
3- His second biggest value is his size, yet he didn't show he was effective using it last year |
He was the darling of the offseason 2 years ago. I feel bad for the kid because I really thought he was on the right path. |
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