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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
There is two issues I have with this argument. First I don't like comparing C's with other positions as the required skills and game responsibilities are different.


But it's relevant, especially when it's the guard-skill bigs with vision that can read the floor that are the dominant bigs, not so much the Dwight Howards of the past.
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The complexity of the reads and assignments for a ball handler vs. non-ball handler cannot be compared. Besides Jokic who is an anomaly I would envision your list is all players who control the ball the majority of the time
.

Oh I disagree here. You can absolutely have players of similar or better vision off the ball. The difference here is ball-handling helps manipulate the defense. Lonzo is the biggest standout here, and I'd even argue that point guards with mid 20s USG but incredibly high assist rates/lower TO rates are easier fits alongside dominant wing types, far more so than finishing bigs.

Quote:
Secondly, yes players come in at different stages of development be it skill or court awareness and as I stated beforehand I don't believe you give enough consideration for further development once in an NBA training program.


Which is my issue with the argument. Like, Cade and Mobley both read the floor better, at a younger age, than Wiseman, but you're in Wiseman's camp because of the separation of athleticism vs actual skill level. The actual net effect on the court is night and day for me. You need rare specialists at the NBA level to develop court vision and passing, like Julius Randle under Walton, Draymond Green under Walton. Phil Handy.

I don't think he's going to get that kind of development at GSW.

Quote:

We are discussing 19-20 year old players whose primary development has been with AAU and amateur coaches. I would never put a cap on the potential outcome of these players being this young. This notably applies to Wiseman who has played only 3 college and a handful of NBA games.


I question late bloomers a ton more, only because from my experience, peak learning age for basketball is between junior high to high school; and then rarely do players really leap developmentally after that. They usually show signs of those developmental leaps during HS years.

I never saw that leap out of Wiseman. I didn't see that leap out of Ben Simmons. I did see that out of THT. I did out of BI.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:00 am    Post subject:

Anyone buying Sharife Cooper stock? I'm not bought in just yet, but he's a physical guard at 5'11 with a killer FTr.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Anyone buying Sharife Cooper stock? I'm not bought in just yet, but he's a physical guard at 5'11 with a killer FTr.


Half way there. Can envision him becoming Mike Conley-ish.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:10 pm    Post subject:

https://thekickahead.com/home/exploring-proprioception-and-spatial-reasoning-as-indicators-for-outlier-development

From one of the guys in my group chat. Excellent article and relates to Sharife Cooper.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:43 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
BVH you'd appreciate this.

https://twitter.com/ben_dull/status/1335377620066701312


I have a theory on this.

I am right handed but growing up I realized I was ambidextrous. I did the following better left handed (bat a baseball, dribble a basketball, shoot a layup, deal cards ...). Just felt natural and with more coordination. I could also do the following decently well LHed although not as good RHed (throw a baseball, shoot a free throw, hit a golf ball) which I attribute to greater strength in my right arm.

I cannot recall how I got into this conversation but my Mom stated that as a child I would naturally do things with my LH such as eating with a utensil. However for some reason she could not explain she forced me to do things RHed. She would take things out of my LH and put them in my RH. Considering 3 of my older siblings are LHed it just seemed odd.

I wonder if this happened to Donnetta.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:47 pm    Post subject:

Any thoughts on Sam Hauser?

Lakers need to find one of these shooters that are starting to proliferate the league and are positive contributors to their team.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Luka Garza (Iowa vs. Ohio St.) - cringe worthy watching how slow he runs up and down the court. Wins on court with sheer size, strength and shooting touch. However, undraftable for me.

Cade Cunnigham (Ok St vs. TCU)- maybe it was a one off bad game but he looked like an average joe. Had some nice passes but unable to create for himself and the points he got by backing down or posting smaller defenders won't be as successful in the NBA. Paraphrasing Mike Schmitz who gave a brief analysis on Cade during the broadcast and which I agree "Cade has the highest floor of a prospect he has seen".
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Tennessee vs Kentucky

Yves Pond - nice athlete, strong body and plays hard. Right now he is a poor shooter having bricked a number of 20 footers. Could be a 2nd rounder just for his defense.

Jaden Springer - a freshman but plays like a senior. Nice skills, plays in control and a good athlete with ball skill and a shooters touch. Nice complement to your superstars. Would draft in 1st.

Keon Johnson - better pure athlete than Springer with good skills. Still prefer Springer.

Devin Askew - the TV broadcast mentioned he was the No. 1 PG in 2021 but classified for 2020. He looked semi-ineffective similar to Nico Mannion from last year Did not have much impact in the game with his average athleticism.

BJ Boston - did not look like a 5 star recruit. His wingspan looked extra long and similar athlete like BI. Seemed to go in and out of the line up with one instance where it appeared Calipari had a teaching moment discussion with him Needs to stay in school another year. Might be James Young 2.0.

Keion Brooks - similar to Yves Pond athletically and court play but more potential. Arms are a bit extended on his shooting stroke but showed touch on his shot.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject:

Kuminga gunning for that #3 spot.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:45 am    Post subject:

Daishen Nix is an intriguing talent. If his 3pt shot develops he has lottery potential although his body type is a concern. Not exceptionally athletic which creates questions on his ability to play defense.

If THT and Daishen were playing together they might be the most stout and thickest guard tandem in the league.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:47 pm    Post subject:

Assuming we keep the pick, what position do you guys think will be the top target?

I’m guessing Center just because I think we keep THT and Caruso. And potentially keep Schroder which makes are guard position pretty loaded. And Center is covered up by a washed Marc Gasol, so part of me thinks we go after a Center this time.

Only players I know in that range I like is Luka Garza and Kai Jones. Anybody have a feel with those two?

We could go for a wing player as well since it’s basically just Lebron and Kuzma. But I would feel better developing a true Center for the long term unless we find a good one in free agency next.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:52 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Assuming we keep the pick, what position do you guys think will be the top target?

I’m guessing Center just because I think we keep THT and Caruso. And potentially keep Schroder which makes are guard position pretty loaded. And Center is covered up by a washed Marc Gasol, so part of me thinks we go after a Center this time.

Only players I know in that range I like is Luka Garza and Kai Jones. Anybody have a feel with those two?

We could go for a wing player as well since it’s basically just Lebron and Kuzma. But I would feel better developing a true Center for the long term unless we find a good one in free agency next.


Not a fan of Garza.

Doubt Kai makes it to the Laker pick. He's probably a mid 1st.

I think Minnesota feels a bit of hurt after drafting for position after acquiring D'Angelo Russell and Ricky Rubio. Probably better off with LaMelo anyway instead of Edwards, at least for now.

Never draft for position. Would have lost Kobe. Portland lost MJ with the same thinking.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:49 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Assuming we keep the pick, what position do you guys think will be the top target?

I’m guessing Center just because I think we keep THT and Caruso. And potentially keep Schroder which makes are guard position pretty loaded. And Center is covered up by a washed Marc Gasol, so part of me thinks we go after a Center this time.

Only players I know in that range I like is Luka Garza and Kai Jones. Anybody have a feel with those two?

We could go for a wing player as well since it’s basically just Lebron and Kuzma. But I would feel better developing a true Center for the long term unless we find a good one in free agency next.


Center - Athletically the polar opposite of Gasol - Charles Bassey - Western Kentucky

PG - Jared Butler or Davion Mitchell. Both play for Baylor

SG - Jaden Springer - Tennessee

SF - Sam Hauser - Virginia
At some point I hope they pick up a true 3pt shooter who complements LBJ and AD. Really don't mind an average defender if surrounded by AD, LBJ, Caruso, Kuz, KCP.

Garza is undraftable imo.

Kai Jones - nice talent to develop but would prefer a more ready to play prospect.
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:14 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Assuming we keep the pick, what position do you guys think will be the top target?

I’m guessing Center just because I think we keep THT and Caruso. And potentially keep Schroder which makes are guard position pretty loaded. And Center is covered up by a washed Marc Gasol, so part of me thinks we go after a Center this time.

Only players I know in that range I like is Luka Garza and Kai Jones. Anybody have a feel with those two?

We could go for a wing player as well since it’s basically just Lebron and Kuzma. But I would feel better developing a true Center for the long term unless we find a good one in free agency next.


Not a fan of Garza.

Doubt Kai makes it to the Laker pick. He's probably a mid 1st.

I think Minnesota feels a bit of hurt after drafting for position after acquiring D'Angelo Russell and Ricky Rubio. Probably better off with LaMelo anyway instead of Edwards, at least for now.

Never draft for position. Would have lost Kobe. Portland lost MJ with the same thinking.


I somewhat agree and disagree. There is a huge difference between drafting best talent/fit in the lottery and top 3 draft pick. Drafting at 29/30 where talent is much more subjective as far as best player available.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:04 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Assuming we keep the pick, what position do you guys think will be the top target?

I’m guessing Center just because I think we keep THT and Caruso. And potentially keep Schroder which makes are guard position pretty loaded. And Center is covered up by a washed Marc Gasol, so part of me thinks we go after a Center this time.

Only players I know in that range I like is Luka Garza and Kai Jones. Anybody have a feel with those two?

We could go for a wing player as well since it’s basically just Lebron and Kuzma. But I would feel better developing a true Center for the long term unless we find a good one in free agency next.


Not a fan of Garza.

Doubt Kai makes it to the Laker pick. He's probably a mid 1st.

I think Minnesota feels a bit of hurt after drafting for position after acquiring D'Angelo Russell and Ricky Rubio. Probably better off with LaMelo anyway instead of Edwards, at least for now.

Never draft for position. Would have lost Kobe. Portland lost MJ with the same thinking.


I somewhat agree and disagree. There is a huge difference between drafting best talent/fit in the lottery and top 3 draft pick. Drafting at 29/30 where talent is much more subjective as far as best player available.


Except MJ was #1.

Talent at 29/30 varies because every draft class is different. You can have tier 3 types still make it to that Top 30 threshhold, especially when Tier 4 and 5s get drafted higher than 25 sometimes.

But I'm sure PHX is happy with Jalen Smith as a top 10 pick, rather than getting Haliburton. It wouldn't have been the most ideal spot for Haliburton, but the talent gap is obvious, and at absolute worst, prevents competitors from acquiring talent.

So, BPA.

Jalen Smith is a tier 4 type player that got drafted as a tier 2.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:08 am    Post subject:

Florida St vs. Virginia.

Not sure any team is more athletic or long than FS this year. Defensively they get after you. When they hit their 3's they look close to unbeatable. Probably played with more intensity than normal due to who their opponent was.

FS lacks a true PG which may hurt them against stronger comparable athletic teams.

Scottie Barns is the real deal both athletically and skill wise. He places possibly at 6th on my list.

MJ Walker is having a nice senior season. Strong body and shot well from 3.

Sam Hauser was neutralized by FS's length and quickness. Still believe he would be a nice role player who would be effective from the better spacing in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Jared Butler
Davion Mitchell
Sandro Mamukeshivili
Ron Harper Jr.

Jaden Springer I expect lottery.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:59 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Jared Butler
Davion Mitchell
Sandro Mamukeshivili
Ron Harper Jr.

Jaden Springer I expect lottery.


Did not realize Springer has risen so high. Now with AD out I thought he may be gettable between 20-25.

Ron Harper Jr. looks like a mini Wes Unseld. I have a hard time getting over his body type. Had watched a 1/2 game of his and had mixed feelings on him.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Jared Butler
Davion Mitchell
Sandro Mamukeshivili
Ron Harper Jr.

Jaden Springer I expect lottery.


Did not realize Springer has risen so high. Now with AD out I thought he may be gettable between 20-25.

Ron Harper Jr. looks like a mini Wes Unseld. I have a hard time getting over his body type. Had watched a 1/2 game of his and had mixed feelings on him.


He's soft given the body type, but he can absolutely spot up and shoot. Low TO rate, doesn't make a ton of bad decisions. It just depends on what a team can do with him in terms of turning that body into strength and making him a physical player. THT was like that too, just had tons more handle.

Cade with Mike Schmitz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE5AoJaw3kg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject:

St. John's vs. Xavier
and
Illinois vs. Northwestern

Ayo Dosunmu - long and lanky like SGA. He is not a PG. Made some really poor passes into traffic although he can fill a tertiary PG role. Just an average athlete with good handles. Did not see any 3pt shots as he drove and kicked out to shooters. He was good in this regard.

Julian Champagnie - Big East leading scorer. Did not standout in any way. Good shooter but nothing off the dribble. Not aggressive defensively or going after rebounds. Average athlete.

Pete Nance - Larry's brother. Similarly good athlete like Larry. Seemed to have hops. Did not notice any perimeter skills as I did not pay close attention to Northwestern till later in the game after I saw Nance on the Jersey.

Posh Alexander - personal favorite. Short and built like a fire hydrant who is so disruptive on defense. Good moving laterally. Not sure he ever makes it to the NBA but I would not bet against him.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:26 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
St. John's vs. Xavier
and
Illinois vs. Northwestern

Ayo Dosunmu - long and lanky like SGA. He is not a PG. Made some really poor passes into traffic although he can fill a tertiary PG role. Just an average athlete with good handles. Did not see any 3pt shots as he drove and kicked out to shooters. He was good in this regard.

Julian Champagnie - Big East leading scorer. Did not standout in any way. Good shooter but nothing off the dribble. Not aggressive defensively or going after rebounds. Average athlete.

Pete Nance - Larry's brother. Similarly good athlete like Larry. Seemed to have hops. Did not notice any perimeter skills as I did not pay close attention to Northwestern till later in the game after I saw Nance on the Jersey.

Posh Alexander - personal favorite. Short and built like a fire hydrant who is so disruptive on defense. Good moving laterally. Not sure he ever makes it to the NBA but I would not bet against him.


Pete Nance is the only one that resembles any kind of potential success based on advanced numbers. Ayo is a 2 playing 1 but his shot is a lot better. I haven't sorted depth but I'm guessing he's early to mid 2nd rounder.

Pete, oth, is a top end facilitator for a 5-out offense with the top of the key. He has the runway athleticism that Larry has, but not really the burst. Passing signs are there. Shooting is there. He'd be fine.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:53 am    Post subject:

Analytics are average at best but Josh Christopher pops.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:58 am    Post subject:

Not the first time on the draft radar but Neemias Queta.

Passing upgraded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvsmZv3f-o0
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:55 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Not the first time on the draft radar but Neemias Queta.

Passing upgraded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvsmZv3f-o0


Do you feel Center's with his style of play would fit next to AD? I like big strong C's but I wonder if C's like Bassey who provides better spacing on the court is the better complement.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:34 pm    Post subject:

Rutgers vs. Michigan

Ron Harper Jr. - as wide body as he is he is a nice athlete with body control and movement like THT. Also pretty good quickness.

Isaiah Livers - kind of a meh game from him and a meh athlete. UDFA

Franz Wagner - nice all around player but did not see a standout skill. Probably best suited at PF but will need to add strength and bulk. Would draft in the 20's.

Geo Baker - looks like an NBA player with the ball in his hands and shot form looks good but shot poorly.

Myles Johnson - big strong C who has no offensive game. Solid cog in the paint but questionable he ever gets to the NBA.

Hunter Dickerson - old school C who could develop into a serviceable NBA player. Still a freshman.
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