Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:36 am Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Going off Vecenie's Top 115
Davion Mitchell
Usman Garuba
Kessler Edwards
Roko Prkacin
Bones Hyland
Chris Duarte (current target)
Jared Butler
Tre Mann
David Duke
Sandro Mamushkelashvili
Trey Murphy III
Isaiah Livers
Scottie Barnes
Isaiah Todd
Neemias Queta
Seems low for Scottie Barnes.
Do you believe Bones Hyland, Tre Mann or David Duke can play PG? David Johnson not listed but same question.
If his shooting continues Bones Hyland could be a Clarkson type 6th man. Able to dribble himself open.
Scottie can't shoot.
I believe Bones can, less sure about Mann and Duke. But they all have different weaknesses. I mean, Bones Hyland is 165lbs. Not a good sign, and I'm unclear if his frame can add requisite strength.
Barnes is a C, he don't need to shoot.
Scottie the modern day Boris Diaw? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:52 am Post subject:
Alperen Şengün
Jared Butler
Miles McBride
Davion Mitchell
Usman Garuba
Kessler Edwards
Roko Prkacin
Bones Hyland
Chris Duarte (current target)
Jared Butler
Tre Mann
David Duke
Sandro Mamushkelashvili
Trey Murphy III
Isaiah Livers
Scottie Barnes
Isaiah Todd
Neemias Queta _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Davion Mitchell
Usman Garuba
Kessler Edwards
Roko Prkacin
Bones Hyland
Chris Duarte (current target)
Jared Butler
Tre Mann
David Duke
Sandro Mamushkelashvili
Trey Murphy III
Isaiah Livers
Scottie Barnes
Isaiah Todd
Neemias Queta
Seems low for Scottie Barnes.
Do you believe Bones Hyland, Tre Mann or David Duke can play PG? David Johnson not listed but same question.
If his shooting continues Bones Hyland could be a Clarkson type 6th man. Able to dribble himself open.
Scottie can't shoot.
I believe Bones can, less sure about Mann and Duke. But they all have different weaknesses. I mean, Bones Hyland is 165lbs. Not a good sign, and I'm unclear if his frame can add requisite strength.
Barnes is a C, he don't need to shoot.
Scottie the modern day Boris Diaw?
He's the most Draymond-ish dude I've seen since Draymond. _________________ Under New Management
Alperen Şengün
Davion Mitchell
Usman Garuba
Kessler Edwards
Roko Prkacin
Bones Hyland
Chris Duarte (current target)
Jared Butler
Tre Mann
David Duke
Sandro Mamushkelashvili
Trey Murphy III
Isaiah Livers
Scottie Barnes
Isaiah Todd
Neemias Queta
I've thought of Şengün as a top-20 talent for awhile now, but given how NBA teams draft I guess it wouldn't surprise me if he landed in the 25-40 range (and ended up a top-10 player in a future re-draft). _________________ Under New Management
MIN - It's Cade or bust for them. I think KAT and Mobley can work in a vacuum while Suggs and Kuminga would be fine additions, but Cade's the only one who keeps this TWolves roster from blowing up in 1-2 seasons.
NOP - The Pelicans roster is crying out for a reliable 3&D wing and a floor-spacing big. They shouldn't pass on a playmaker/scorer if they think he'll be better than Kira, but Moses Moody would be such a great fit between BI and Lonzo (assuming he re-signs).
CHA - A play-in series with a chance at lotto luck seems like a better option for them than the 8th seed. Regardless, there's a nice group of mid-teens big men who could help shore up their weakness in the middle - Jalen Johnson if he falls, Şengün, Garuba, Kai Jones.
LAL - I'm a staunch advocate for drafting bpa and there will be a handful of talented veteran playmakers at the bottom of the first round, but DS and THT make another small guard much less of a need. Big wings (or 4/3s) should be a priority if the Lakers scouts have a guy like Julian Champagnie or Aaron Henry in a tier with, say, Davion Mitchell.
BJ Boston - Some capped out playoff team like the Warriors, Nuggets, or Bucks should absolutely take a swing at developing him. A good buy low candidate. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:07 am Post subject:
Quote:
LAL - I'm a staunch advocate for drafting bpa and there will be a handful of talented veteran playmakers at the bottom of the first round, but DS and THT make another small guard much less of a need. Big wings (or 4/3s) should be a priority if the Lakers scouts have a guy like Julian Champagnie or Aaron Henry in a tier with, say, Davion Mitchell.
I'm somewhat reluctant w Champagnie or Henry. I'd still prefer Mitchell over both. Just more confident in his 2 way ability, shooting, and NBA strength, even if he lacks Donovan Mitchell's vertical and likely has a short PG-like standing reach.
Right now I'd be happy with Chris Duarte. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
LAL - I'm a staunch advocate for drafting bpa and there will be a handful of talented veteran playmakers at the bottom of the first round, but DS and THT make another small guard much less of a need. Big wings (or 4/3s) should be a priority if the Lakers scouts have a guy like Julian Champagnie or Aaron Henry in a tier with, say, Davion Mitchell.
I'm somewhat reluctant w Champagnie or Henry. I'd still prefer Mitchell over both. Just more confident in his 2 way ability, shooting, and NBA strength, even if he lacks Donovan Mitchell's vertical and likely has a short PG-like standing reach.
Right now I'd be happy with Chris Duarte.
Just an off hand example, you could substitute Livers or Marcus Bagley or whichever combo-forward/face-up PF you prefer. _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:21 am Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
LAL - I'm a staunch advocate for drafting bpa and there will be a handful of talented veteran playmakers at the bottom of the first round, but DS and THT make another small guard much less of a need. Big wings (or 4/3s) should be a priority if the Lakers scouts have a guy like Julian Champagnie or Aaron Henry in a tier with, say, Davion Mitchell.
I'm somewhat reluctant w Champagnie or Henry. I'd still prefer Mitchell over both. Just more confident in his 2 way ability, shooting, and NBA strength, even if he lacks Donovan Mitchell's vertical and likely has a short PG-like standing reach.
Right now I'd be happy with Chris Duarte.
Just an off hand example, you could substitute Livers or Marcus Bagley or whichever combo-forward/face-up PF you prefer.
Agreed. Just generally speaking a ton of these combo forward types look a lot of the same to me, with nothing dynamic. I'm just far more likely to find dynamicism out of guard skills. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:06 am Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Alperen Şengün
Davion Mitchell
Usman Garuba
Kessler Edwards
Roko Prkacin
Bones Hyland
Chris Duarte (current target)
Jared Butler
Tre Mann
David Duke
Sandro Mamushkelashvili
Trey Murphy III
Isaiah Livers
Scottie Barnes
Isaiah Todd
Neemias Queta
I've thought of Şengün as a top-20 talent for awhile now, but given how NBA teams draft I guess it wouldn't surprise me if he landed in the 25-40 range (and ended up a top-10 player in a future re-draft).
I've had some trouble from earlier this season gauging how deep this draft actually is. But I expect that Mann/Butler/Duarte/Hyland is the end of the 1st round cut, which may mean by draft time they're basically around pick 20-25. That leaves Todd, Mamushkelavili, Murphy, Queta in the late 1st round, with Ron Harper Jr in the 2nd.
And honestly, I can't explain why I like Duarte's game so much. If you just look at hoop math and stare at the shooting numbers, they're phenomenal, but there's something to his game/processing + big guard size that just translates to NBA player to me right now. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Alperen Şengün
Davion Mitchell
Usman Garuba
Kessler Edwards
Roko Prkacin
Bones Hyland
Chris Duarte (current target)
Jared Butler
Tre Mann
David Duke
Sandro Mamushkelashvili
Trey Murphy III
Isaiah Livers
Scottie Barnes
Isaiah Todd
Neemias Queta
I've thought of Şengün as a top-20 talent for awhile now, but given how NBA teams draft I guess it wouldn't surprise me if he landed in the 25-40 range (and ended up a top-10 player in a future re-draft).
I've had some trouble from earlier this season gauging how deep this draft actually is. But I expect that Mann/Butler/Duarte/Hyland is the end of the 1st round cut, which may mean by draft time they're basically around pick 20-25. That leaves Todd, Mamushkelavili, Murphy, Queta in the late 1st round, with Ron Harper Jr in the 2nd.
And honestly, I can't explain why I like Duarte's game so much. If you just look at hoop math and stare at the shooting numbers, they're phenomenal, but there's something to his game/processing + big guard size that just translates to NBA player to me right now.
The JC path softens the age issue a bit for me and he certainly passes the eye and stats tests, but he's really, really old. Like, imagine how awesome Kuzma would look against Pac-12 talent at age 24. _________________ Under New Management
An early mock draft if I were GM of each team (lotto order based on tankathon results):
1st Round
ATL - Cunningham
CLE - Mobley
DET - Kuminga
ORL - Ja. Green
GSW - Suggs
OKC - K. Johnson
WAS - Springer
OKC - Ja. Johnson
SAC - Z. Williams
NOP - Moody
IND - Wagner
CHI - Cooper
MEM - Kispert
GSW - Mathurin
TOR - Barnes
HOU - K. Jones
CHA - Sengun
NYK - Bouknight
BOS - Garuba
NYK - Nix
DEN - Boston
SAS - Prkacin
HOU - Cam Thomas
MIL - Butler
LAL - Giddey
LAC - Mitchell
BKN - Todd
PHI - Bagley
PHX - Bones
UTA - Christopher
2nd Round
OKC - I. Jackson
NYK - G. Brown
HOU - Livers
ORL - Duarte
NOP - Sandro
NOP - Clarke
SAC - Hukporti
OKC - D. Johnson
CHI - Edwards
BKN - Mann _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:34 pm Post subject:
Quote:
The JC path softens the age issue a bit for me and he certainly passes the eye and stats tests, but he's really, really old. Like, imagine how awesome Kuzma would look against Pac-12 talent at age 24.
I think the age matters if you think there's a ton of upside to unravel with the athletic tools. But I don't think Duarte is that guy. He's a shooter and a striaght line driver, opting to get a screen instead of playing more off ball/C+S (which is my only issue with him right now), but he's like a high floor player to me. If he doesn't score, I expect him to just make good decisions and have shot gravity, which is basically what you want for a 4th/5th option player.
I don't see the dynamic playmaking, dynamic ball handling, or outstanding athleticism to think he's a high upside player anyway. So, it's just about adjusting to NBA level defenses. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
The JC path softens the age issue a bit for me and he certainly passes the eye and stats tests, but he's really, really old. Like, imagine how awesome Kuzma would look against Pac-12 talent at age 24.
In regards to the age issue the difference I see with Duarte vs. Kuzma is Duarte does not win on court due to being physically superior as normally seen with older prospects but wins due to skill and mental strength. It was on full display in their game against Stanford.
An early mock draft if I were GM of each team (lotto order based on tankathon results):
1st Round
ATL - Cunningham
CLE - Mobley
DET - Kuminga
ORL - Ja. Green
GSW - Suggs
OKC - K. Johnson
WAS - Springer
OKC - Ja. Johnson
SAC - Z. Williams
NOP - Moody
IND - Wagner
CHI - Cooper
MEM - Kispert
GSW - Mathurin
TOR - Barnes
HOU - K. Jones
CHA - Sengun
NYK - Bouknight
BOS - Garuba
NYK - Nix
DEN - Boston
SAS - Prkacin
HOU - Cam Thomas
MIL - Butler
LAL - Giddey
LAC - Mitchell
BKN - Todd
PHI - Bagley
PHX - Bones
UTA - Christopher
2nd Round
OKC - I. Jackson
NYK - G. Brown
HOU - Livers
ORL - Duarte
NOP - Sandro
NOP - Clarke
SAC - Hukporti
OKC - D. Johnson
CHI - Edwards
BKN - Mann
Like Giddy the prospect but not for the Lakers. Won't be ready for at least 2-3 years and still question how he translates to NBA competition.
Suggs would fit right into Pistons starting lineup but Kuminga is such a talent.
OKC - Moody vs. Keon Johnson. I go Moody who is more ready to play and better 3pt shot.
Sengun is Okafor until he shows a perimeter game. However I like Okafor so I would consider him at the Lakers pick.
Prkacin - is he a SF or PF?
Wagner - is he a SF or PF? A 20-25 player for me.
Greg Brown is just outside the lottery for me. Skills are there, just needs development. Competes hard from what I have watched.
Where is Charles Bassey on your board? I have 25-35.
SAC needs a Scottie Barnes.
Livers is a 45-undrafted player. Maybe I only caught his bad games but showed no impact on court.
Des Isaiah Jackson have any offensive skills outside of 10'? 6'?
I wonder if Sandro diverse ball skills keeps moving him up due his NBA fit?
Never got the Boston hype. Is he supposed to be a knock down shooter?
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:35 pm Post subject:
Sengun is a 5 in a 4 body, which I don't mind, because he actually plays as a roll man. If his defense is Theis level, he's playable.
Okafor's failure wasn't that he was a post man, but was so severely deficient as a rebounder, rim protector, lack of motor, lack of roll-man finishing, screener, that he's not 2-way playable. He thinned out, added range to his shot, looks quicker/more mobile and even went vegetarian. But that didn't change his motor/defensive ability. So, he still doesn't play 30mpg.
Wagner is a 3 with 4 movement skills.
Greg Brown, mid to late 1st. I have other guys I prefer in the lottery.
Bassey, 35 and later.
BJ Boston, I think has been vastly overrated.
Sandro is what Hartenstein is supposed to be, just without the back issues and tons better fluidity. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Like Giddy the prospect but not for the Lakers. Won't be ready for at least 2-3 years and still question how he translates to NBA competition.
I would stash him in the NBL or in Europe for 1-2 seasons. If they bring back THT I don't know if Pelinka is going to roster another young player, anyway, and I'd prefer they go the draft & stash route on an upside-y prospect rather than trade the pick away.
Suggs would fit right into Pistons starting lineup but Kuminga is such a talent.
See below on athletic wings with skill flashes.
OKC - Moody vs. Keon Johnson. I go Moody who is more ready to play and better 3pt shot.
I like Moody a lot and Johnson has been inconsistent so far, but Johnson's functional athleticism really intrigues me. Seeing young, athletic wings with skill flashes like Jaylen Brown and Zach Lavine put it together in recent years has me optimistic on Keon rounding out his game to complement his slashing whereas Moody's stiffness and lack of burst will always limit him as an on ball attacker.
Sengun is Okafor until he shows a perimeter game. However I like Okafor so I would consider him at the Lakers pick.
Sengun rebounds and passes unlike Okafor, and as Mike notes, Sengun is willing and capable as a roll man. I also think he'll be okay-ish as a rim protector/position defender. I'd say more Cody Zeller at Indiana than Okafor.
Prkacin - is he a SF or PF?
PF
Wagner - is he a SF or PF? A 20-25 player for me.
I have him as an interchangeable 3/4. He's young enough to have a development leap in him, but even topping out as a glue guy 5th starter he gives NBA lineups so much versatility. I like him more than Avdija.
Greg Brown is just outside the lottery for me. Skills are there, just needs development. Competes hard from what I have watched.
I don't buy him as an NBA starter and the passing/processing speed is definitely not there. Gives me Perry Jones vibes. Really awesome dunker, though.
Where is Charles Bassey on your board? I have 25-35.
In the 40s. I like him well enough and he's had good games against better non-conference competition. I'm just not too excited by backup Cs. He has a defined NBA role and I'd bet on him sticking in the league while some guys I have ahead of him like Boston, Nix, Todd, Christopher, etc. wash out, I'd just prefer to take a bigger swing on guys who play more valuable roles if they hit.
SAC needs a Scottie Barnes.
They need just about everything.
Livers is a 45-undrafted player. Maybe I only caught his bad games but showed no impact on court.
That's probably where he'll end up.
Des Isaiah Jackson have any offensive skills outside of 10'? 6'?
No, but all he needs to do on offense is dunk and avoid dumb turnovers.
I wonder if Sandro diverse ball skills keeps moving him up due his NBA fit?
I worry about him being a defensive tweener which locks him in as a bench scoring specialist, but I really like his offensive skillset.
Never got the Boston hype. Is he supposed to be a knock down shooter?
Long wing with diverse shot making ability - a scorer more than pure shooter - who I think is stifled in Kentucky.
I like Garuba next to Woods in Houston.
I think both Kai Jones and Garuba would be fine there. I see Garuba as a 5 on offense, fwiw.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:17 pm Post subject:
Sengun, Petrusev, Sandro.
Sandro is the rotation guy that needs to beef up a ton to add dynamic ability offensively but break even defensively.
Sengun and Petrusev are the guys that I'm interested in because they're doing higher IQ things in the post and show dexterity there, so I'm translating that dexterity to improvements in ball handling and perimeter game.
Petrusev has it, just rarely shows it, and doesn't need to show it that much considering the league he plays in.
Sengun, the same; but he's like this oddly more mobile Zubac with a touch more fluidity and a great anchor foot in the post. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:26 pm Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Looks like Josh Giddey just earned himself a 1st round slot.
I'm going to will him into a Lakers uniform.
You like him that much? I'm not really convinced of that jumper.
The way he makes reads is great. It's like he sees one indicator, and then confirms it with a quick glance/throws the pass simultaneously. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
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