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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58424
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 Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | Lakers aren’t utilizing Trez correctly on offense.
They’re not running any plays for him, they’re not feeding him at all. They almost forget about him like they do Dwight on offense.
He’s basically trying to scrounge up points anywhere he can get.
It’s no wonder he’s already taken more outside jumpers in just 6 games this year, than he has all season last year. |
I found that they do run plays for him, but teams have scouted Trez well, and send a second body at him immediately on a catch in the paint. The thing is that we do not have a Lou Will or bench play like the Clippers that can fully take advantage of Trez, but even in the playoffs, Trez began to get exposed a bit on his limitations on offense. It seems teams now always send a big body on him as soon he enters. So perhaps we could space the floor out 1-4 and let him go to work, but that would require a huge systematic change to our Bron-AD centric offense. The times we could actually do that is when both Bron and AD sit.
One thing I do think he does well that we are not doing a lot of, is post sprinting. This is something we did with previous Centers, and Trez is that much better because he is quicker up the floor. He had a play where he did that today, and Bron found him right away.
We are also missing Rondo when it comes to this, because if you look at our team, only Bron knows how to set up bigs on a consistent basis. Last year we had Bron, and Rondo. So we are still in search of ways to get bigs the ball without Bron on the floor. Even AD is suffering, as I am seeing his catches and some of his spots where he gets the ball and they are not the same.
The guy who has a lot of chemistry with Trez who can get him a lot of good looks but does not play is Quinn. Quinn has a very nice 2 man game with Trez. However with the guards we already have and Quinns defense being limited, you can not run those guys together too often.
Still, for me, Trez is worth the minutes even as an off the ball rebound guy, a post sprinter, occasional post ups, so long as he defends. However based on play so far, his defense is getting more and more exposed. On the bright side, Marc Gasols defense is getting better and better. It could be Trez has bad habits and a new system is slower for him to get. I hope so. |
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 7058
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | Lakers aren’t utilizing Trez correctly on offense.
They’re not running any plays for him, they’re not feeding him at all. They almost forget about him like they do Dwight on offense.
He’s basically trying to scrounge up points anywhere he can get.
It’s no wonder he’s already taken more outside jumpers in just 6 games this year, than he has all season last year. |
This... We're not using him enough. Also not sure if he always been that type of guy but he don't look so involve when he's on the bench. He just sit there. Not sure if anyone notice this lately. |
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Reds622
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32076
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| His drop coverages tonight were killing me. Spurs got seemingly five hundred points in the third and fourth just pulling up off screens from 18 feet. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I’m sure there is a decent defensive player in there with Harrell. The energy is there, the lateral movement, the effort, just needs better execution and discipline. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23805
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | I’m sure there is a decent defensive player in there with Harrell. The energy is there, the lateral movement, the effort, just needs better execution and discipline. |
He needs to work with Vogel and Hollins. |
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pokoy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Reds622 wrote: | https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2872884-clippers-rumors-doc-rivers-ripped-montrezl-harrell-multiple-times-for-comments.amp.html
I always go back to some of this... and the fact that the Clippers didn’t really want him back.
He’s a defensive liability and is possibly a moody teammate that is influenced by his own box score.
I’m concerned about this signing and our front court. |
Yeah so far I feel like Dwight would have been a better fit both on the court and team chemistry-wise. Hoping it can get better but we’ll see. It’s hard to ask him to sacrifice for the good of the team because he is in a contract year and is in his prime. I think Rob had the right idea to surround AD with guys his age but Trez just doesn’t seem like the dude (unlike Dennis who I think is perfect).
I still do think however that the only good thing with this signing was preventing the clippers from using him in a sign and trade for a point guard they need. |
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Harrel is just a horrible fit for this team, especially after the Schroder trade.
We really should have resigned Dwight and used the MLE on someone else.
The other issue with Harrell is it will be tough for Vogel to bench him. At least with Dwight or McGee there was no pressure to play them. Vogel can’t bench Harrell as a Klutch client. |
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point-guard
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | Harrel is just a horrible fit for this team, especially after the Schroder trade.
We really should have resigned Dwight and used the MLE on someone else.
The other issue with Harrell is it will be tough for Vogel to bench him. At least with Dwight or McGee there was no pressure to play them. Vogel can’t bench Harrell as a Klutch client. |
agree. dwight and mcgee was much better |
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mj32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Mcgee and Howard arent coming back. Whats the point of whining about it? Additionally making a conclusion after 6 games is unwise.
Harrell will be fine. |
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MJST
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hype
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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Location: Lake Nacimiento
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Some of ya'll overrate Dwight and McGee hardcore. |
That's about the nicest way I could put it as well. |
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ducasse
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | Harrel is just a horrible fit for this team, especially after the Schroder trade.
We really should have resigned Dwight and used the MLE on someone else.
The other issue with Harrell is it will be tough for Vogel to bench him. At least with Dwight or McGee there was no pressure to play them. Vogel can’t bench Harrell as a Klutch client. |
They will bench him in the playoffs he can't get the job done. LeBron and AD are not going to watch a ring disappear because a guy is getting minutes when he can't do the job. |
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SPO200
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Some of ya'll overrate Dwight and McGee hardcore. |
You read some people here and if you haven't watched last season's Lakers you would think that Dwight was Orlando's Dwight and McGee was some kind of Shaq. |
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BadGuy
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Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3629
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| Harrell seems to give 0 (bleep) about defending outside of the paint. Either that changes, or he doesn't see the floor late in important (close) games. |
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waterman40
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Given time, I think His defense will improve - its kind of hard to get down on his defense when our two stars are still only giving it about 70% effort on defense, AC is out, and we let go of our two big centers in the offseason.
MH was a change in management thinking; last year it was two stars, try to get a third or get someone to be that #3 on any given night. Last year it was Kuzma or Howard in the regular season; in the playoffs it was KCP and Rondo. In the playoffs, we won with a lot of grit and strong defense. We get the ring, what do we do? Let or trade DG, McGee, Howard, Rondo go and replace them with MH, DS, Matthews and Gasol. Much more emphasis on offense in 2021.
We are not worried about WHO the third scorer will be - very likely it is going to be Schroder pretty much a solid 15=20 PPG every night, and his full court pickup is going to pay dividends in these long playoff series. MH on the other hand is going to be that solid double-double most nights off the bench. Definite scoring, energy, and boards against mostly second-team players. His effect likely means games where LBJ or Davis don't have to play as much in 4th quarters or other teams starters have to come back sooner, because the game is getting out of hand.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | Given time, I think His defense will improve - its kind of hard to get down on his defense when our two stars are still only giving it about 70% effort on defense, AC is out, and we let go of our two big centers in the offseason.
MH was a change in management thinking; last year it was two stars, try to get a third or get someone to be that #3 on any given night. Last year it was Kuzma or Howard in the regular season; in the playoffs it was KCP and Rondo. In the playoffs, we won with a lot of grit and strong defense. We get the ring, what do we do? Let or trade DG, McGee, Howard, Rondo go and replace them with MH, DS, Matthews and Gasol. Much more emphasis on offense in 2021.
We are not worried about WHO the third scorer will be - very likely it is going to be Schroder pretty much a solid 15=20 PPG every night, and his full court pickup is going to pay dividends in these long playoff series. MH on the other hand is going to be that solid double-double most nights off the bench. Definite scoring, energy, and boards against mostly second-team players. His effect likely means games where LBJ or Davis don't have to play as much in 4th quarters or other teams starters have to come back sooner, because the game is getting out of hand. |
70% is all bron has left on that end unless season takes a hiatus again. We have to be realistic on his defense. Seems like the first to go. |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Trez will be fine. He's in a new system with new players. Give him 25 games and some practices - he'll give us 30-ish very productive minutes every night.
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| I was never a huge fan of the signing but he's good value. He should be a better defender than he is. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | I was never a huge fan of the signing but he's good value. He should be a better defender than he is. |
Agreed.
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cannga11
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | I was never a huge fan of the signing but he's good value. He should be a better defender than he is. |
Agreed about the defense, otherwise I LOVE the signing because one, it takes him away from Clippers, and two, I have no doubt he's going to get better.
Extremely active, smart, aggressive, soft touch around basket, for 10 mills? SOLD! 
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: |
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He's not going to jump any higher or grow any taller so I don't know what else Vogel could do to improve his defense. There's only so much he could do as a defender when someone is driving towards the basket. He has put in a lot of effort to quickly move his feet and take charges but as I've been saying taking charges is nothing like blocking/contesting shot. Anyone can take charges.
What I like about him is he does have good trade value so he could be very valuable trade bait in the future. Trade him for a serviceable big whenever one was available because we already have Morris as another backup big.
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | He's not going to jump any higher or grow any taller so I don't know what else Vogel could do to improve his defense. There's only so much he could do as a defender when someone is driving towards the basket. He has put in a lot of effort to quickly move his feet and take charges but as I've been saying taking charges is nothing like blocking/contesting shot. Anyone can take charges.
What I like about him is he does have good trade value so he could be very valuable trade bait in the future. Trade him for a serviceable big whenever one was available because we already have Morris as another backup big. |
Being in the right place, making the correct rotation and beating the defender to the spot are all more effective than blocking shots. Trez has a higher career block rate than Draymond Green - it's the other stuff that made Dray a DPOY.
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| cannga11 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | I was never a huge fan of the signing but he's good value. He should be a better defender than he is. |
Agreed about the defense, otherwise I LOVE the signing because one, it takes him away from Clippers, and two, I have no doubt he's going to get better.
Extremely active, smart, aggressive, soft touch around basket, for 10 mills? SOLD! |
So far, removing him as a trade piece for the Clips is my favorite part of acquiring him.
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | He's not going to jump any higher or grow any taller so I don't know what else Vogel could do to improve his defense. There's only so much he could do as a defender when someone is driving towards the basket. He has put in a lot of effort to quickly move his feet and take charges but as I've been saying taking charges is nothing like blocking/contesting shot. Anyone can take charges.
What I like about him is he does have good trade value so he could be very valuable trade bait in the future. Trade him for a serviceable big whenever one was available because we already have Morris as another backup big. |
Being in the right place, making the correct rotation and beating the defender to the spot are all more effective than blocking shots. Trez has a higher career block rate than Draymond Green - it's the other stuff that made Dray a DPOY. |
Maybe Vogel could turn him into Green if given enough time but we're a win now team. We're not a development team. I'm more interested in having a guy who could help with rim protection now so that we wouldn't have to rely on AD so much.
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