Rumor: The Lakers have shown interest in trading for DeMar DeRozan
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:49 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
LeBronsPregameChalk wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
HermosaJoe wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Aiming for Deroz is the same kind of Front Office mentality that brought WB to Houston. A big name allstar without consideration to core personnel. You’re sacrificing 2 playoff caliber defenders, both of whom have a known role on a championship team, and have the ability to become more comfortable hitting threes. They have both earned the trust of lakernation and should only be sacrificed for trade for a guy that is a long term investment that will be Mamba’s DFish or MJ’s Pip. The question is simply this: Is Droz AD’s reason to sign long term with Lakeshow? I say, Beal or no deal, and you run it back with a short term FA merc like Ibaka.


"You’re sacrificing 2 playoff caliber defenders..." Seriously?! DG and Kuz?! Also, remember, DRR is a multiple-year All-Star.


Yes. Seriously.

Even if you think Kuzma is a playoff-caliber defender (that's romanticizing it, imo - I don't care what the advanced metrics say), you can't let that hold up a trade if you think it's an improvement. At best, Kuzma is a "playoff-caliber defender" that can't shoot well. You can easily find a playoff-caliber defender that can't shoot well on a vet min contract.

Green is a legit defender for sure but his three point shooting has gone to hell. Over his last 66 playoff games, he's shooting .330 from three. What the hell happened to this guy?


As bad of a shooter as you say Kuz and Green are, DeRozan is markedly worse. He doesn't even attempt them as he's that bad. At their worse Kuz shoots low 30s percent and Green shoots mid 30s. DeRozan shoots upper 20s. And isn't as good a defender as either


DeRozan TS% .603
Kuzma .531
Green .552

Who is the better shooter?


I should've been more specific. I'm addressing 3pt shooting. Mid range and at the rim is where Bron and AD already operate. Adding DeRozan is just creating more redundancy. We need to spread the floor and DeRozan hurts floor spacing


As far as advance stats are concerned: layups, free throws and threes are king. DDR gets to the line at very high rate and like VLF started shoots a TS% .603.

So many times last year we lacked a guy who could manufacture a score and this guy does that better than almost anyone. As far as redundancy, we have a good coach who could rotate LBJ and DDR's minutes and create a system that plays to our strengths.

I don't want to lose Kuz so if we don't make this trade I'll be cool with it. But DDR is a great player that I think makes us a better team this year and maybe next.


Kuz is fools gold to me. He improved from a clueless defender to a serviceable one who still got scored on far too frequently. Not enamored with his sub 30% 3pt shooting either.

That being said, DDR is a sub 30% shooter and if you can't learn to play D for Pop then I doubt he's going to be better here. The only advantage he has over Kuz is that he gets to the line far better than Kuz.

Both appear to be mentally fragile players and this would be taking on salary for a marginal upgrade at best. This rumor was floated by DDRs agent.

Love how quiet it is around our FO...no way to know what we're doing. I trust Rob's ability to construct a roster and keep key guys in the loop.

Any rumors involving us didn't come from us.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Love how quiet it is around our FO...no way to know what we're doing. I trust Rob's ability to construct a roster and keep key guys in the loop.

Any rumors involving us didn't come from us.


It’s amazing how tight lipped the FO is now. One of the best attributes of this Pelinka led FO.

He is doing a great job, without letting other teams know of intentions. It also speaks volumes that Klutch stays quiet too. It shows they trust and really respect Pelinka.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:02 am    Post subject:

I have no doubt in my mind that Rob and Woj are friends. I believed it was Rob giving Woj all the Lakers info before he signed on. The fact that Rob has been quiet since taking charge is amazing and a testament to his commitment to the team. I’m pretty sure that’s why Woj burned us every chance he got for a year and a half. Woj gets all his info from agents. Being shut out by the biggest franchise doesn’t help his career.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:04 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
Love how quiet it is around our FO...no way to know what we're doing. I trust Rob's ability to construct a roster and keep key guys in the loop.

Any rumors involving us didn't come from us.


It’s amazing how tight lipped the FO is now. One of the best attributes of this Pelinka led FO.

He is doing a great job, without letting other teams know of intentions. It also speaks volumes that Klutch stays quiet too. It shows they trust and really respect Pelinka.


If Rob and Rich Paul are on the same page then that’s certainly a positive.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:12 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
I have no doubt in my mind that Rob and Woj are friends. I believed it was Rob giving Woj all the Lakers info before he signed on. The fact that Rob has been quiet since taking charge is amazing and a testament to his commitment to the team. I’m pretty sure that’s why Woj burned us every chance he got for a year and a half. Woj gets all his info from agents. Being shut out by the biggest franchise doesn’t help his career.


Haha true

Woj is going against the Lakers and rich Paul while shams is signed by rich Paul agency
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Lakerwayne
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:06 pm    Post subject:

I understand folks talking about derozan lack of floor spacing but that’s only an issue if we stick with non floor spacing bigs like McGee and Howard. If kcp gets resigned and a floor spacing big replaces McGee in the starting lineup it’s all good. So for example kcp derozan lebron davis Ibaka not sure if possible or realistic but if so hell ya sign me up please
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject:

Lakerwayne wrote:
I understand folks talking about derozan lack of floor spacing but that’s only an issue if we stick with non floor spacing bigs like McGee and Howard. If kcp gets resigned and a floor spacing big replaces McGee in the starting lineup it’s all good. So for example kcp derozan lebron davis Ibaka not sure if possible or realistic but if so hell ya sign me up please
yeah but its not like Ibaka is going to sit there and be the sniper that we need.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:32 pm    Post subject:

scoobs wrote:
Lakerwayne wrote:
I understand folks talking about derozan lack of floor spacing but that’s only an issue if we stick with non floor spacing bigs like McGee and Howard. If kcp gets resigned and a floor spacing big replaces McGee in the starting lineup it’s all good. So for example kcp derozan lebron davis Ibaka not sure if possible or realistic but if so hell ya sign me up please
yeah but its not like Ibaka is going to sit there and be the sniper that we need.


Obviously I’m not saying anybody’s role would just be to camp around the arc exclusively just saying that he would be a threat from that area of the floor as well as diving or rolling unlike McGee and Howard who can only score at the basket so it would open up the floor and I opulent foresee any spacing issues with a lineup like that
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:12 pm    Post subject:

Lakerwayne wrote:
scoobs wrote:
Lakerwayne wrote:
I understand folks talking about derozan lack of floor spacing but that’s only an issue if we stick with non floor spacing bigs like McGee and Howard. If kcp gets resigned and a floor spacing big replaces McGee in the starting lineup it’s all good. So for example kcp derozan lebron davis Ibaka not sure if possible or realistic but if so hell ya sign me up please
yeah but its not like Ibaka is going to sit there and be the sniper that we need.


Obviously I’m not saying anybody’s role would just be to camp around the arc exclusively just saying that he would be a threat from that area of the floor as well as diving or rolling unlike McGee and Howard who can only score at the basket so it would open up the floor and I opulent foresee any spacing issues with a lineup like that


KCP with bird rights for one year means you're likely going to have to choose between Rondo or sweetening the SA deal for them to take Cook and McGee to keep the full MLE intact. If DDR for Green & Kuz is a go, maybe 28 gets them to take salary back, hopefully not THT.

Let's go with 28 and a bought 2nd gets it done so you get to keep Rondo too. Still need a wing defender. The debate is would Harkless or Morris take BAE or is there a wing defender worth it. Roster wise you would be stacked at guard and need another trade
like Bradley and THT for the other backup forward......

Bradley?/Rondo/THT
DDR/KCP/Caruso
James/BAE or trade
Davis/BAE or trade
Ibaka/Cousins?

I'm starting to think that if DDR is real then it's a counter to knowing they're losing KCP and knowing who the MLE guy is (Ibaka? Harkless?), otherwise they're gambling with fixing the forward spot.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Green and Kuzma? Pack their bags.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Do we really want a 31 year old guy who:

A. Needs the ball
B. Can't play D
C. Can't shoot the 3

Answer: No
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
LeBronsPregameChalk wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
HermosaJoe wrote:
€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Aiming for Deroz is the same kind of Front Office mentality that brought WB to Houston. A big name allstar without consideration to core personnel. You’re sacrificing 2 playoff caliber defenders, both of whom have a known role on a championship team, and have the ability to become more comfortable hitting threes. They have both earned the trust of lakernation and should only be sacrificed for trade for a guy that is a long term investment that will be Mamba’s DFish or MJ’s Pip. The question is simply this: Is Droz AD’s reason to sign long term with Lakeshow? I say, Beal or no deal, and you run it back with a short term FA merc like Ibaka.


"You’re sacrificing 2 playoff caliber defenders..." Seriously?! DG and Kuz?! Also, remember, DRR is a multiple-year All-Star.


Yes. Seriously.

Even if you think Kuzma is a playoff-caliber defender (that's romanticizing it, imo - I don't care what the advanced metrics say), you can't let that hold up a trade if you think it's an improvement. At best, Kuzma is a "playoff-caliber defender" that can't shoot well. You can easily find a playoff-caliber defender that can't shoot well on a vet min contract.

Green is a legit defender for sure but his three point shooting has gone to hell. Over his last 66 playoff games, he's shooting .330 from three. What the hell happened to this guy?


As bad of a shooter as you say Kuz and Green are, DeRozan is markedly worse. He doesn't even attempt them as he's that bad. At their worse Kuz shoots low 30s percent and Green shoots mid 30s. DeRozan shoots upper 20s. And isn't as good a defender as either


DeRozan TS% .603
Kuzma .531
Green .552

Who is the better shooter?


DDR had an efficient season. But he's no sharpshooter. He's a career eFG 47.1% and TS 54.2 % shooter. In the playoffs, it's even worse at eFG 42.9% and TS 50.3%. Yuck.

And again, it's only going to get worse when he's suddenly 3rd banana. Just ask Bosh and Love
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:53 pm    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
Green and Kuzma? Pack their bags.


Not necessarily. In fact, I'd say it's 50-50 that both of them are back this year.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject:

this is spurs being desperate and using Lakers as a leverage...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject:

ericp6387 wrote:
Do we really want a 31 year old guy who:

A. Needs the ball
B. Can't play D
C. Can't shoot the 3

Answer: No


And yet we have a lengthy discussion that multiple posters do. Not just as a free agent option either. Multiple championship assets must be used to do it.

Go figure?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:04 pm    Post subject:

Swapping Green and Kuz for DeRozan would instantly make us the worst 3 point shooting team in the league and it wouldn't be particularly close. We'd also be left with limited cap to address that glaring weakness. Not a championship formula.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:15 pm    Post subject:

I HATE this idea.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
Swapping Green and Kuz for DeRozan would instantly make us the worst 3 point shooting team in the league and it wouldn't be particularly close. We'd also be left with limited cap to address that glaring weakness. Not a championship formula.


On top of that our perimeter defense instantly becomes substantially worse on a team that talked about there defense being there identity from day 1. I actually have always liked Derozan from afar but it's not hard to see he's an absolutely horrible fit for our current roster especially at a 28 million max contract and losing the couple decent trade chips we have. Not to mention he will be looking for a max/close to max contract once this one is up so you have to make the decision to let him go for nothing or keep him as he starts declining since he's 31 already currently.

The more I think about it the more I hate it as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject:

If we actually got DeRozan, would he fill our need for a ball-handling guard who can run the break and help LeBron set the table on offense? Or is he mostly a guy who gets assists within the set offense after someone else gets him the ball?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:49 pm    Post subject:

My last 2 posts I leaned towards trading for DeRozan. But I've been mixed, and Nick Wright recently made some remarks that I think highlighted my concerns:

1. The team's calling card was defense. This trade likely reduces that. Now, I will not pretend to say I have a full understanding of DeRozan's defensive abilities, but I've heard "bad", "not very good" and even "aggressively bad" (whatever that means).

That would concern me. Now, Kuzma is not exactly any defensive ace, and DG isnt the defender he use to be, but the idea of getting worse on defense is not appealing, even if he is surrounded by other defenders (eg IF he is as bad as say Lou Williams, oh brother, recall how teams can play Lou off the floor by attacking him in the 4th?)

2. Wright made a good point re 3's. Lakers needs were shooters who could hit 3s. Last year they won the title despite not being in the upper echelon of 3 percentage. Floor spacing is important. Even with DG, defenses would still honor his shot.

DeRozan will likely be dared to shoot the 3 and teams will drift more to the paint with his defender. Spacing likely less for the team.

3. DeRozan seems to me to need the ball to be effective, he's not really a spot up guy from the times I've watched him...he seems very ISO dependent to me (if I am wrong feel free to correct me). This would make him as a fit with LBJ and AD likely a poor one: e.g. having AD and LBJ, who are better offensive players, "stand and watch" DeRozan for x number of possessions a game go ISO doesnt seem like a prudent strategy to me.

4. I know many like the idea of adding more talent /all-star and letting things work out...but the thing is, if you consider what during the season and playoffs we collectively as fans saw the Lakers need, a DeRozan was NOT on the menu. We would have been fine with a point guard off the bench who could play some D, and consistently create and score (aka playoff Rondo), and another wing defender...neither of which DeRozan brings.

Now based on the above, the way I could see it working is if DeRozan plays with the second unit, does not end the 4th (poor defense), or otherwise takes LBJ's role in attacking the basket when LBJ rests. But, I think him on the floor with AD and LBJ may not work well.

With the foregoing said, I will say this - I remain mixed on it, and am glad I am not GM. Frankly, I may value someone like a Jeremi Grant, or an Ibaka / D Rose type of gain instead of DeRozan (assuming those gains were even possible). But, the idea does intrigue me nonetheless, and I do not think I would lose much sleep over the deal if it occurred and only DG and Kuz left - as long as KCP, AC, AB, etc stayed (I am partial to guys who scrap and play D).
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Coach would turn dd into elite defender
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Trade is not likely according to @BovadaOfficial.


Will DeMar DeRozan Be Traded To The Lakers?

Yes +400
No -700
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
Coach would turn dd into elite defender


I'd suggest watching some breakdowns of him. He's been in the NBA for 11 years and has played for some good defensive coaches yet always seems to stand out as a flat out liability. One thing I noticed that stood out A LOT was his awful iq/awareness on that end even when he seems to be giving full effort.

I've read/watched some breakdown lately but here's the last article I read that did a good job showing his awful iq/instincts/decisions that mess up the entire teams defense often.

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2019/11/26/20983960/demar-derozan-defense-san-antonio-spurs-worst-defender-league

^^ take a look at the comments of actual fans of the team as well.

He's not a guy you want on a Contending team as your third option and starter when your identity is defense. I'm sure they can find ways to mask some of his deficiencies but what about late in games? We're just going to sit our third option who's making 28 million?

Go back to the last time he was in the Playoffs in 2018 and he was literally benched against the Cavs and Coach Casey came out afterwards saying it wasn't even all about his 3-12 shooting because players can still play defense and do other things to help there team win but he wasn't.

There's endless articles/videos out there from nearly every single year he's been in the NBA it seems with fans/analysts talking about it. It's nothing new and he's 31 now, not going to change drastically over night at this point.

If he was making 15-20 million less then i'd be all for it but that's a massive handicap between his defense and being one of the worst 3 point shooters in the NBA for a guy making that much imo.

I will say if we had a bunch of solid shooters already say like the Heat and we could allow Derozan to operate somewhat like Butler it would be a solid move but we obviously don't.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:32 pm    Post subject:

hype wrote:
Halflife wrote:
Coach would turn dd into elite defender


I'd suggest watching some breakdowns of him. He's been in the NBA for 11 years and has played for some good defensive coaches yet always seems to stand out as a flat out liability. One thing I noticed that stood out A LOT was his awful iq/awareness on that end even when he seems to be giving full effort.

I've read/watched some breakdown lately but here's the last article I read that did a good job showing his awful iq/instincts/decisions that mess up the entire teams defense often.

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2019/11/26/20983960/demar-derozan-defense-san-antonio-spurs-worst-defender-league

^^ take a look at the comments of actual fans of the team as well.

He's not a guy you want on a Contending team as your third option and starter when your identity is defense. I'm sure they can find ways to mask some of his deficiencies but what about late in games? We're just going to sit our third option who's making 28 million?

Go back to the last time he was in the Playoffs in 2018 and he was literally benched against the Cavs and Coach Casey came out afterwards saying it wasn't even all about his 3-12 shooting because players can still play defense and do other things to help there team win but he wasn't.

There's endless articles/videos out there from nearly every single year he's been in the NBA it seems with fans/analysts talking about it. It's nothing new and he's 31 now, not going to change drastically over night at this point.

If he was making 15-20 million less then i'd be all for it but that's a massive handicap between his defense and being one of the worst 3 point shooters in the NBA for a guy making that much imo.

I will say if we had a bunch of solid shooters already say like the Heat and we could allow Derozan to operate somewhat like Butler it would be a solid move but we obviously don't.


Ho-Li-Chit that guy is Ho-RiB-LE on D.

He's Lou Williams without a 3 but with Kuzma's instincts and awareness on D.

And all he would cost is 28 million plus a couple of assets that are actually productive.

If I had to watch that in a Lakers uni for even a pick up game I'd be pissed.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:52 am    Post subject:

I know Pop is really very high on Kuzma
Said as much in Team USA play

And we all know Danny Green is a Pop guy developed well in that system when he was younger.

Green/Kuz is a steal for the Spurs.

Don’t see us making that deal. DeRozan makes $27M.
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