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| Which free agency (2021 or 2022) should the Lakers prioritize? |
| 2021 |
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37% |
[ 14 ] |
| 2022 |
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62% |
[ 23 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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Message |
dfchang813
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1508
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 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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We use Pincus package to get CP3.
After 2022 everybody comes off the books and we give max to AD and Bradley Beal. Lebron and CP3 resign for lower as their roles will be reduced and both will be 38. With that core we can realistically contend until Lebron is 40. AD and BB are the hiring studs and Lebron and CP3 are older facilitators. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Do it Dr Buss way.
Keep an eye on 2021 and 2022, but also try to win it now when you have two HOFers still playing like HOFers and top 5 NBA talents.
Phil wrote in one of his books, that Dr Buss would often basically piss him off because he had his eyes on a future prize as well, not going all in on the team he had. He had his eyes on Karl Malone, years in advance on when we actually signed him.
So sure, maybe this will piss people off, but I support it. The FO delivered a title as promised. Within 3 years of taking over. Now they have my trust, on whatever they decide regarding this. For sure, they will not go for a plan if they feel they have no connection with the FAs they want. IF they feel they have a connection, like they did with Bron in 2018, AD and Kawhi in 2019, they will go for it. Sometimes you lose and you get played, like we did with Kawhi. But sometimes you also win, like with Bron and AD. You can not win them all.
If the FO's worse move is to let a role player like KCP go (or whomever they allow to leave or not sign) due to a plan that feel may get them a meeting and a chance to sign another future HOFer in his prime still playing like a HOFer and top 5 talent, there is gonna be zero argument from me. This is not the Jim and Mitch era. Rob and Jeanie they actually deliver the stars. Again, we won't bat 10/10. Maybe 3/10. But even if you get 1 of these mega talents, it changes the course of your franchise. Think back to 2018 how so many didn't even think Bron was a good signing for a young team like that, and many preferred Paul George or a younger star or a trade. Or how trading all the assets for AD was too much. Or that trying for Kawhi cost us a ring, because the guys we signed after losing out on Kawhi, were not good enough. I think this FO has shown they know what they need to get and they will also have a contingency plan if it doesn't.
Think about the Warriors adding KD when they already had Curry-Klay-Dray in their primes. If the Warriors don't make that capspace move, they are 2 titles shorter now, as they would never have been able to win it all again without KD in that era. We have a shot at adding a top 5 player to AD/Bron championship level team. Why the hell not at least keep the option open? Who knows. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Either way, we still have Bron and AD, and having capspace when you have 2 mega talents is never a bad thing. |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25078
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| The more I think about this, the more I'm on the 2020 plan, let's go for it hard this next 2 years, worry about max UFA later |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years. 
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Why though? Because we won the championship this year? I mean both Butler and Luka are very alpha guys but people are assuming Giannis can work with them well. But he doesn't want to become a teammate with a declining LBJ and beta personality AD? If we win again next year, then I think the door would be completely shut. But if we don't then I think the odds is pretty much the same.
I suspect LBJ will become slower and take more and more outside jumper in 2 years time. The playing style of AD and Giannis is very different, in fact, I think they match each other pretty well. If Giannis wants to make to the next level, he needs a mentor and there isn't a more suitable mentor for him other than LBJ. |
I think Luka/Giannis would be literally the next iteration of LBJ/AD. I really do not think Giannis will want to join the Lakers and be the 3rd guy. That was our flaw in thinking with chasing Kawhi. |
That’s the thing. Why would he be the 3rd guy? Lebron might still be an all-star player but at the age of 37, he won’t be as dominant. AD is more a finisher than a facilitator comparing to Giannis. I believe if Giannis does come, he will be the one handling the ball more than AD or LeBron.
The situation with Kawhi was different. Kawhi competed with Lebron in the Finals and he wanted to surpass Lebron in certain areas so he might have some rivalry feeling against Lebron. |
I actually think as LBJ ages, he will be more of a ball handler and less of a scoring attacker. I don't really see how LBJ (primary ball handler) with AD/Giannis really appeals to Giannis. He wants to be a primary ball handler himself (which is also a reason why Luka/Giannis may be an interesting idea to see if Giannis could play off ball).
My 2021 realistic option is Jrue Holiday. Gives us a guy who can still score 17-20ppg, play all NBA level defense, and can alleviate some ball handling duties. But I'm not sure I would be eschew going in all in right now if the right deals presented itself just to get Jrue in 2021. |
I am confused with what you said about Giannis wants to be a primary ball handler and then said he will be willing to play off ball if he pairs up with Luka. I
I think in 2022, LBJ will become a secondary facilitator and outside shooter because he loses the explosiveness to attack the basket. That's why I think Giannis fits. I guess our disagreement is on the condition of LBJ. You feel like he will still be one of the best players in NBA and lead this team whereas I think he will no longer be the top 5 players in the NBA and if Giannis joins, LBJ will become the 3rd guy.
Also would you want to use all the cap space on Jrue Holiday in 2021 instead of trying to get other top free agents in 2022? |
1. I point out repeatedly that Luka/Giannis would be a weird fit for the same reasons, i.e. both are primary ball handlers.
2. As LBJ ages and loses his athleticism, I think he will control the ball MORE as a point forward, not less. It makes sense as he will gradually lose more of his ability to attack the rim, and he hasn't shown that he wants to be a full time low post player either.
3. yes, if we saved cap space in 2021, and say Giannis was off the table but Jrue wanted to sign a 3-4 year deal at say 22-25m/year, I would go for Jrue and not wait for 2022 cap space. He would immediately provide everything we need from a 3rd guy (all NBA level defense, capable scorer, can play point and create, and isn't ball dominant).
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Think about the Warriors adding KD when they already had Curry-Klay-Dray in their primes. If the Warriors don't make that capspace move, they are 2 titles shorter now, as they would never have been able to win it all again without KD in that era. |
Wolf, KD to the Warriors (and 2 extra rings) was possible to a historic one time cap spike that basically gave 75% of the NBA a full max slot out of thin air. Not sure that is a good example to use. It's like having AD/LBJ, and the NBA just raising the cap space in 2021-22 to give the Lakers a max slot.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really do not see Giannis joining us. I think it's down to Dallas or Miami. I'm deathly scared of what a Luka/Giannis duo looks like for the next 5-6 years.
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Why though? Because we won the championship this year? I mean both Butler and Luka are very alpha guys but people are assuming Giannis can work with them well. But he doesn't want to become a teammate with a declining LBJ and beta personality AD? If we win again next year, then I think the door would be completely shut. But if we don't then I think the odds is pretty much the same.
I suspect LBJ will become slower and take more and more outside jumper in 2 years time. The playing style of AD and Giannis is very different, in fact, I think they match each other pretty well. If Giannis wants to make to the next level, he needs a mentor and there isn't a more suitable mentor for him other than LBJ. |
I think Luka/Giannis would be literally the next iteration of LBJ/AD. I really do not think Giannis will want to join the Lakers and be the 3rd guy. That was our flaw in thinking with chasing Kawhi. |
That’s the thing. Why would he be the 3rd guy? Lebron might still be an all-star player but at the age of 37, he won’t be as dominant. AD is more a finisher than a facilitator comparing to Giannis. I believe if Giannis does come, he will be the one handling the ball more than AD or LeBron.
The situation with Kawhi was different. Kawhi competed with Lebron in the Finals and he wanted to surpass Lebron in certain areas so he might have some rivalry feeling against Lebron. |
I actually think as LBJ ages, he will be more of a ball handler and less of a scoring attacker. I don't really see how LBJ (primary ball handler) with AD/Giannis really appeals to Giannis. He wants to be a primary ball handler himself (which is also a reason why Luka/Giannis may be an interesting idea to see if Giannis could play off ball).
My 2021 realistic option is Jrue Holiday. Gives us a guy who can still score 17-20ppg, play all NBA level defense, and can alleviate some ball handling duties. But I'm not sure I would be eschew going in all in right now if the right deals presented itself just to get Jrue in 2021. |
I am confused with what you said about Giannis wants to be a primary ball handler and then said he will be willing to play off ball if he pairs up with Luka. I
I think in 2022, LBJ will become a secondary facilitator and outside shooter because he loses the explosiveness to attack the basket. That's why I think Giannis fits. I guess our disagreement is on the condition of LBJ. You feel like he will still be one of the best players in NBA and lead this team whereas I think he will no longer be the top 5 players in the NBA and if Giannis joins, LBJ will become the 3rd guy.
Also would you want to use all the cap space on Jrue Holiday in 2021 instead of trying to get other top free agents in 2022? |
1. I point out repeatedly that Luka/Giannis would be a weird fit for the same reasons, i.e. both are primary ball handlers.
2. As LBJ ages and loses his athleticism, I think he will control the ball MORE as a point forward, not less. It makes sense as he will gradually lose more of his ability to attack the rim, and he hasn't shown that he wants to be a full time low post player either.
3. yes, if we saved cap space in 2021, and say Giannis was off the table but Jrue wanted to sign a 3-4 year deal at say 22-25m/year, I would go for Jrue and not wait for 2022 cap space. He would immediately provide everything we need from a 3rd guy (all NBA level defense, capable scorer, can play point and create, and isn't ball dominant). |
1. Yet you said Luka/Giannis is like LBJ/AD and AD is not a primary ball handlers. Anyway, I get your point saying Giannis doesn't fit in our team.
2. I think he can and will be a good point forward but if he recognises that is not enough to win the title, he is willing to accept other roles.
3. That's fair. The list of 2022 free agents are very tempting but most of the top players will most likely stay at the same team anyway. |
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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| I think our front office wanted to go for Giannis. The hiring of Kidd and signing of Giannis's brother are not coincidences. We are here speculating what Giannis wants but I am sure the front office has their connection to have a more educated guess. So if they decide to aim for 2022 free agency, I won't complain. However, I do not think we will miss out the 2022 free agency for 2nd tier star such as Jrue Holiday. This front office prepared themselves to go for LBJ, AD and Kawhi. They will always dream big. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 1. Yet you said Luka/Giannis is like LBJ/AD and AD is not a primary ball handlers. Anyway, I get your point saying Giannis doesn't fit in our team.
2. I think he can and will be a good point forward but if he recognises that is not enough to win the title, he is willing to accept other roles.
3. That's fair. The list of 2022 free agents are very tempting but most of the top players will most likely stay at the same team anyway. |
1. In the sense that you can make Luka/Giannis into a duo where you spread the ballhandling duties a bit more, and eventually Giannis will have to sublimate his game and become more of a big man. Much tougher when you have 3 superstars IMO, especially when LBJ is such an effective point forward. If it was LBJ/Giannis, I think more room to work. But AD is our go to scorer now. So what does that make Giannis?
2. I think being a point will be how he ages, ergo, he would be accepting a role that embraces his diminishing athleticism.
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think our front office wanted to go for Giannis. The hiring of Kidd and signing of Giannis's brother are not coincidences. We are here speculating what Giannis wants but I am sure the front office has their connection to have a more educated guess. So if they decide to aim for 2022 free agency, I won't complain. However, I do not think we will miss out the 2022 free agency for 2nd tier star such as Jrue Holiday. This front office prepared themselves to go for LBJ, AD and Kawhi. They will always dream big. |
But isn't Kidd interviewing for head coach positions?
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Think about the Warriors adding KD when they already had Curry-Klay-Dray in their primes. If the Warriors don't make that capspace move, they are 2 titles shorter now, as they would never have been able to win it all again without KD in that era. |
Wolf, KD to the Warriors (and 2 extra rings) was possible to a historic one time cap spike that basically gave 75% of the NBA a full max slot out of thin air. Not sure that is a good example to use. It's like having AD/LBJ, and the NBA just raising the cap space in 2021-22 to give the Lakers a max slot. |
If anything, in the next couple of seasons we are likely going to see the opposite of that increase.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Lakeshow323
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 1275
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think our front office wanted to go for Giannis. The hiring of Kidd and signing of Giannis's brother are not coincidences. We are here speculating what Giannis wants but I am sure the front office has their connection to have a more educated guess. So if they decide to aim for 2022 free agency, I won't complain. However, I do not think we will miss out the 2022 free agency for 2nd tier star such as Jrue Holiday. This front office prepared themselves to go for LBJ, AD and Kawhi. They will always dream big. |
Yup, that will always be the Laker way, go for the homerun. And as last year proved this strategy right with AD, anytime you have a decent chance to get a top 5 superstar, you go for it, 100/100 times. |
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