CP3 to Lakers? (Nope -Traded to the Suns)
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:16 am    Post subject:

We could probably keep Rondo, add someone like DRose, for way way cheaper asset cost, and still keep our team chemistry and depth of talent in tact. I know a lot of people are down on Green, but he has won 3 rings for 3 different teams for a reason. He is such a good glue guy. And he is always in the right spot on offense. Just ask Handy, about Green. I don't mind moving Green, expiring opt in guys (McGee etc) and 1 valued asset (28th pick), but that's the limit.

I'd sooner explore what it would take to get DRose out of Detroit.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:18 am    Post subject:

If we give up on Giannis and the 2021 FA we could try to trade expiring contracts for players with 2 years in their contracts with teams who might want to have cap space next year
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:32 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The more I have thought about this, I have leaned towards being against the move. The basis of my opinion is that I think Presti will only do this deal if we give him Kuz, the 28th pick and Danny Green to make salaries work. Rondo, do we all forget the Houston game from last season? So Rondo, will probably leave. My assumption is that Presti will not let CP3 out via buyout nor will he just take CP3 for Green/expiring contracts (our opt ins).

You lose your 3rd best natural shotmaker (kuz), your best natural shooter (Green) and your best PG (Rondo, although his loss is the least, as CP3 replaces most of what he does).

The real deal breaker for me is AD. AD and Rondo's relationship is special. AD needs a guy like Rondo around. They mesh. Even if Rondo doesn't play a role, he can be a Jared Dudley type for us. He can be in AD's ear.

CP3's history with Harden, Blake etc is not good. I think when you put CP3 around Lebron, respect is mutual. And they will figure it out. Now you add AD, Dwight. I just don't the mix with CP3. Reminds me too much of the 2012 Lakers team. Literally every team CP3 is on, where there is another star, CP3 and that star get into it.

This team needs to keep finding character guys, who don't care about their star power, who just want to win. CP3 will never come off the bench, or embrace the Rondo role, IMO. He will alienate AD, and Dwight, really fast, unless he has changed. I know the Lakers culture with Vogel is awesome. But Dwight was a changed man before he came to LA. The guys we got, like Green, Caruso, Rondo, KCP, these are all character guys that bought in from day 1 and have a history of buying in the right circumstances.

Can we name one place where CP3 has shared the spotlight in the NBA, well? I am talking Hornets era or OKC era. He was clear cut the man and no second star. Everything revolved around him. When he has had to share the spotlight with another star, he has often found himself in issues. I dunno, that and his price tag, I dunno.

Is CP3 40 times the player Rondo was last year? Because he is about to cost a team that much.


Terrific post. I definitely agree.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:56 am    Post subject:

I was totally against the Godfather trade... but I like this one.

Why? Because this is like the trades we used to do in the old days.

Get rid of mediocre players for one great one.

Our depth is already shot to hell... so why not go all in on the threepeat?

If we can get players like Rondo, Boogie and Dwight on board... I don't think we'd miss Avery/Kuz/DG/Cook... etc.

The only thing bad that could happen is if Kuz started shooting like Ingram next year.

But we've been waiting for two years for him to return to rookie Kuz and I'm not sure that will happen again.

If we get either CP3 or sign Gallinari... I think we become the favorites assuming those vets are on board.

In terms of the culture?

How many people said Dwight wouldn't work?
How many said Rondo was trash because of his attitude?

How many continue to say Boogie is done?

Is it possible it could blow up? Sure... I can see that... but I also see LBJ getting older next season and needing help. The odds of CP3 making up for any decline in LBJ are higher than the chemistry of a championship contender going down the drain. Winning heals a lot of bad blood and I'm sure if Rondo had no problem playing behind Bradley, his ego won't mind coming off the bench for Paul.

The west will be brutal next season... but with CP3 I see us as the favorites. With no significant upgrades... I'm pretty sure our luck will run out due to LBJ eventually slowing down. CP3 will also slow down... but it will still be a net gain due to the fact that he won't deteriorate to the point where he's worse than Bradley.
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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:17 am    Post subject:

I'm surprised and shocked this has gone on 17 pages, but I'll go ahead and leave my one and only post in here.

First off, it does NOT matter what CP3 wants.

Second, and most importantly: there is no way in hell that the Rob trades the top 7 highest paid Lakers (Not named AD or LeBron) for a 36 year old that is due to make over $85 million the next two seasons.

Period, end of story!

Now if you want to fantasize about this and that go right ahead, but it's a complete waste of time and energy...

I'm out
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:25 am    Post subject:

The Lakers have a very finite window with LBJ.

OKC has a bright future.

They get rid of an enormous contract of someone who doesn't want to be there with moveable useful players.

They aren't going to win a title in the CP3 window... so why not start the rebuild sooner?

What team will give them a pile of picks and young assets?

We are the only ones who would have use for him... and that's because LBJ and CP3 will be done in two years.

I don't see it out of the realm of possibility.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:28 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
The Lakers have a very finite window with LBJ.

OKC has a bright future.

They get rid of an enormous contract of someone who doesn't want to be there with moveable useful players.

They aren't going to win a title in the CP3 window... so why not start the rebuild sooner?

What team will give them a pile of picks and young assets?

We are the only ones who would have use for him... and that's because LBJ and CP3 will be done in two years.

I don't see it out of the realm of possibility.

Maybe the Bucks can give them picks. The window championship of the Bucks is probably only one year.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:11 am    Post subject:

No thanks to cp3
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:


CP3's history with Harden, Blake etc is not good. I think when you put CP3 around Lebron, respect is mutual. And they will figure it out. Now you add AD, Dwight. I just don't the mix with CP3. Reminds me too much of the 2012 Lakers team. Literally every team CP3 is on, where there is another star, CP3 and that star get into it.

This team needs to keep finding character guys, who don't care about their star power, who just want to win. CP3 will never come off the bench, or embrace the Rondo role, IMO. He will alienate AD, and Dwight, really fast, unless he has changed. I know the Lakers culture with Vogel is awesome. But Dwight was a changed man before he came to LA. The guys we got, like Green, Caruso, Rondo, KCP, these are all character guys that bought in from day 1 and have a history of buying in the right circumstances.

Can we name one place where CP3 has shared the spotlight in the NBA, well? I am talking Hornets era or OKC era. He was clear cut the man and no second star. Everything revolved around him. When he has had to share the spotlight with another star, he has often found himself in issues. I dunno, that and his price tag, I dunno.



There's valid reasons to be against this trade, but I think this narrative is pretty ridiculous. This reads almost exactly how people were talking about Jimmy Butler prior to this season. Chris Paul is about the work, about winning.
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governator
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject:

SPO200 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The Lakers have a very finite window with LBJ.

OKC has a bright future.

They get rid of an enormous contract of someone who doesn't want to be there with moveable useful players.

They aren't going to win a title in the CP3 window... so why not start the rebuild sooner?

What team will give them a pile of picks and young assets?

We are the only ones who would have use for him... and that's because LBJ and CP3 will be done in two years.

I don't see it out of the realm of possibility.

Maybe the Bucks can give them picks. The window championship of the Bucks is probably only one year.

If Bucks go for CP3 then you know Giannis told them he's staying so window prob longer than that. Otherwise they'll trade NO AD/OKC PG style... imagine if Giannis brings back less than PG lol
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:23 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
SPO200 wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The Lakers have a very finite window with LBJ.

OKC has a bright future.

They get rid of an enormous contract of someone who doesn't want to be there with moveable useful players.

They aren't going to win a title in the CP3 window... so why not start the rebuild sooner?

What team will give them a pile of picks and young assets?

We are the only ones who would have use for him... and that's because LBJ and CP3 will be done in two years.

I don't see it out of the realm of possibility.

Maybe the Bucks can give them picks. The window championship of the Bucks is probably only one year.

If Bucks go for CP3 then you know Giannis told them he's staying so window prob longer than that. Otherwise they'll trade NO AD/OKC PG style... imagine if Giannis brings back less than PG lol


Giannis won't be traded just like KD wasn't. Bucks know best chance to keep him is win the championship next season so they will try their best to get an all star via trade. Try to win a chip with Giannis, CP3, Middleton. And in case it doesn't workout, CP3 is in the last year of his contract in 2021-22. If they make a trade for CP3, they will want to include Bledsoe's contract along with picks for OKC.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:25 am    Post subject:

Gonna be interesting watching cp3 stand in the corner while lebron has the ball late game. Hopefully a new rumor comes out so this one can die.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
Gonna be interesting watching cp3 stand in the corner while lebron has the ball late game. Hopefully a new rumor comes out so this one can die.


Rondo did well playing next to LeBron, CP3 would too
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:29 am    Post subject:

I’m only for trading for CP3 if we are able to retain AD/LeBron/Kuz/KCP/Caruso/THT. If I’m not D.Rose would make a great fall back option for our 1st and Q.Cook/McGee.

The above Is doable by including Rondo in a sign and trade on a bloated deal, 8-10M. Only guaranteed for the first year. As has already been said Rondo and CP3 are redundant and they both hate each other.

CP3 for Rondo/DG (only 2 important rotation players we lose)+AB/McGee/28

It would make sense to look for a 3rd team who values Rondo/DG more than OKC would. I think Memphis would make sense and they also have a large exp k they could flip to OKC. Something like Grayson Allen+2nd+Dieng to OKC with DG/Rondo going to Memphis.


We would not be able to retain Morris unless he returned on the vet min deal. Doubtful. We would be able to resign Dwight for up to 3M using non bird rights. Would have KCP full rights, no limit. Would be smart to structure all deals for 2 years to fit the LeBron/Cp3 2 year window and cap space plan when free agency will be loaded.

Harkless would have to be a MUST with our Tax payer MLE to replace Green.

A break down of the players we would lose vs gain if we are able to pick up vets like Harkless/Noel/Korver/Cousins.

Noel/McGee
Cousins/Morris
Harkless/Green
Korver/Cook
CP3/Rondo

No β€œloss of depth”. Heck maybe an upgrade in depth
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:30 am    Post subject:

Noel/Dwight/Boogie
AD/Kuz/Dudley
LeBron/Harkless/Korver
KCP/Waiters/THT
CP3/Caruso

You say no to that team?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
epic_ wrote:
Gonna be interesting watching cp3 stand in the corner while lebron has the ball late game. Hopefully a new rumor comes out so this one can die.


Rondo did well playing next to LeBron, CP3 would too



No question.
And if the Lakers got him, I would root for him.
Till then, hoping for a better rumor.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:38 am    Post subject:

I don't want this yappy little chihuahua on our team. CP3 is known for choking.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:44 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
Noel/Dwight/Boogie
AD/Kuz/Dudley
LeBron/Harkless/Korver
KCP/Waiters/THT
CP3/Caruso

You say no to that team?


What happened to kief and rondo?

I'd ask for bazley in any trade with OKC as we are giving cap relief + kuzma and 28
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:46 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
I know a lot of people are down on Green, but he has won 3 rings for 3 different teams for a reason.


Luck? Right place at the right time? His numbers have been terrible the last two playoffs (even before that). He is the anti-Rondo when it comes to the playoffs. That's swell he is a great locker room guy or whatever. So is Jared Dudley, and he comes for a vet minimum and will miss just as many wide open 3s. If he has to go to get another superstar in, I wont miss him whining about fans whining about him missing wide open shots.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
I know a lot of people are down on Green, but he has won 3 rings for 3 different teams for a reason.


Luck? Right place at the right time? His numbers have been terrible the last two playoffs (even before that). He is the anti-Rondo when it comes to the playoffs. That's swell he is a great locker room guy or whatever. So is Jared Dudley, and he comes for a vet minimum and will miss just as many wide open 3s. If he has to go to get another superstar in, I wont miss him whining about fans whining about him missing wide open shots.


His shot was trash.
But I think his defense gets overlooked.
Other teams rarely target him and his team defense (rotations) seem to be on point.

I think one of the hardest things to do is compare offensive shot making vs defense in terms of impact on wins.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Noel/Dwight/Boogie
AD/Kuz/Dudley
LeBron/Harkless/Korver
KCP/Waiters/THT
CP3/Caruso

You say no to that team?


What happened to kief and rondo?

I'd ask for bazley in any trade with OKC as we are giving cap relief + kuzma and 28

Read the post above. Wouldnt be able to retain Morris unless he signed for the vet min and Rondo would be included on a bloated salary in a sign and trade.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The more I have thought about this, I have leaned towards being against the move. The basis of my opinion is that I think Presti will only do this deal if we give him Kuz, the 28th pick and Danny Green to make salaries work. Rondo, do we all forget the Houston game from last season? So Rondo, will probably leave. My assumption is that Presti will not let CP3 out via buyout nor will he just take CP3 for Green/expiring contracts (our opt ins).

You lose your 3rd best natural shotmaker (kuz), your best natural shooter (Green) and your best PG (Rondo, although his loss is the least, as CP3 replaces most of what he does).

The real deal breaker for me is AD. AD and Rondo's relationship is special. AD needs a guy like Rondo around. They mesh. Even if Rondo doesn't play a role, he can be a Jared Dudley type for us. He can be in AD's ear.

CP3's history with Harden, Blake etc is not good. I think when you put CP3 around Lebron, respect is mutual. And they will figure it out. Now you add AD, Dwight. I just don't the mix with CP3. Reminds me too much of the 2012 Lakers team. Literally every team CP3 is on, where there is another star, CP3 and that star get into it.

This team needs to keep finding character guys, who don't care about their star power, who just want to win. CP3 will never come off the bench, or embrace the Rondo role, IMO. He will alienate AD, and Dwight, really fast, unless he has changed. I know the Lakers culture with Vogel is awesome. But Dwight was a changed man before he came to LA. The guys we got, like Green, Caruso, Rondo, KCP, these are all character guys that bought in from day 1 and have a history of buying in the right circumstances.

Can we name one place where CP3 has shared the spotlight in the NBA, well? I am talking Hornets era or OKC era. He was clear cut the man and no second star. Everything revolved around him. When he has had to share the spotlight with another star, he has often found himself in issues. I dunno, that and his price tag, I dunno.

Is CP3 40 times the player Rondo was last year? Because he is about to cost a team that much.


Detailed and well thought out post as usual wolf.

I'd like to offer the following counter argument.

First let's consider what we are getting in CP3 as a 35 year old point guard. Last year in OKC he put up excellent numbers and was named to All NBA 2nd team. That is very impressive and shows he still has plenty left in the tank if placed in a good situation. He was beaten out on first team only by the second coming of Lebron and Magic: Luka.

His entire career, he has been an elite defender. As late as 2017 he was named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team. He has bee First Team All Defense 7 times in his career and Second Team All Defense 2 times and ranked among league leaders in steals the better part of his career.

We would be getting one of the best pure point guards in the history of the NBA whose game is not dependent on elite athleticism. Lebron and Rondo have one of the highest IQs for the game but Chris Paul is not less than them.

Chris Paul on the Lakers would take a ton of mileage off Lebron during the regular season and make the game easier for the entire team. On the Lakers, he would be the 3rd best player, would feel zero need to score the basketball and engage in much more PNR with Anthony Davis and have Lebron play off ball. He would significantly decrease the wear and tear on himself and Lebron and AD over the regular season.

A few thoughts on the downsides of Chris Paul. One is that he may be a bad teammate because drama seems to follow him when he is paired with another superstar as you have alluded to Wolf. But I have to disagree on that. I think Chris Paul is very much built like Kobe Bryant and is ultra competitive and has an insane desire to win. When that isn't matched by other teammates or even superstars then there will be a clash.

Look at the teams he has left and the teams he has joined.

1. Clippers. Deandre Jordan is a mental midget and Blake Griffin is soft. Doc is an incompetent and horrible coach. The stories have been written on those guys and sealed. When Chris Paul left that team, what happened? They wouldn't have even been in a position to blow a 3-1 lead without Chris Paul.

2. Rockets. Harden and Dwight. Really? Is there a more selfish and ridiculous superstar than James Harden? This team with Chris Paul's heart was one injury to him away from beating the Warriors and perhpas winning a championship. Without Paul, they lost in 7. And when he clashed with Harden and was traded to OKC how did the Rockets do? That franchise is dead in the water.

3. OKC. A team that he had no interest in joining but showed up like a professional as you would expect from the president of the NBPA and put together one of the better seasons in his career while being a great teammate and doing everything OKC could have asked of him.

So if you want to talk about the narrative of him being a bad teammate or clashing with other superstars you have to give me better examples than Blake, DeAndre, Harden, and Dwight because I'm pretty sure Paul wasn't the problem.

In this, Chris Paul is just like Kobe Bryant and just like Jimmy Butler. While they aren't perfect and their leadership style is not for everyone, I take guys like that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I chose Kobe over Shaq, I chose Jimmy over KAT and Wiggins and Embiid and Simmons, and I choose Chris Paul over Blake and Harden. Simple as that.

On this Lakers team, Chris Paul is gonna fit in fine with the defense team first culture of Vogel and the leadership and championship experience of Lebron and AD. They just want to win and play the game the right way.

2. Chris Paul is injury prone. He is 6 feet 1 inch and most of his career has been the best player on his team inviting tons of schemes, double teams, and pounding. Kyrie has same problem. Isaiah Thomas same thing. Undersized point guards in the NBA get pounded and they are going to be more prone to injury. But with the Lakers, he doesn't have to do or be any of that. Lebron and AD create immense gravity. On this team, Chris Paul can dish out 15 dimes and get 5 steals a game with his eyes closed. He made Deandre Jordan an All Star what is he gonna do for AD?

Chris Paul is going to make the game incredibly easier for the regular season and that is going to save everyone's body for the postseason. Also bear in mind that the NBA season next year will be shortened as well. We likely won't start playing until March and the smaller number of games are going to help veterans like Lebron and Chris Paul disproportionately. AD was injury prone too but again he was the center of attention for defenses night in and night out. With Lebron, he was fine. The same thing will happen but even better with Chris Paul.

Now . . . who are we giving up?

1. Kyle Kuzma. He is 25, a champion, and not a great fit on this team. His BBIQ is poor and he is inconsistent. He is never going to get to where he needs to go on a team like this. In Game 6 of the NBA Finals in 22 minutes of play he scored 2 points and grabbed 1 rebound. In the Finals, he averaged in 22 minutes of play 8.5 points, 2.8 rebounds, 0.5 assists. He shot 35.4 percent FG and from 3 point range he shot 31 percent. And he is set to be paid soon. Sorry but for his sake and the Lakers I don't mind seeing him move on. It would be mutually beneficial for both.

2. Danny Green. Sure he is a great glue guy but his 3 point shooting has been bad culminating in receiving death threats for missing the potential championship winner in Game 5. You have to give up something to get something.

3. McGee. Became unplayable as the post season wore on culminating in DNP-CD entire Finals.

4. Q Cook. You're kidding right?

5. Avery Bradley. Shown to be completely superfluous since he opted out of entire bubble and we went 16-5 without him.

6. 28th First Round Draft Pick.

I'm not sure if OKC is dumb enough to take that package but if that's what gets the deal done then from our end I think it's a no-brainer.

If we do this and can keep Caruso and KCP we will be fine using Vet Minimum, the BAE, and the tax payer's MLE if necessary to round out the roster.

Every year when you construct a championship roster there is always a gamble whether things will work out or not and whether the chemistry will be right or not.

I think 90 percent of the Lakers success this season is Lebron, AD, and Vogel. We got somewhat lucky with Dwight and Rondo. These were 2 players with TOXIC reputations changing teams every year until they finally found their niche here. I think we can interchange pieces in and out without too much trouble as long as our core of Lebron, AD, and Vogel is there and we can keep Caruso and KCP.

We have 2 years to maximize championships and the odds are simply much higher we win them with CP3 on our team vs Green, Kuzma, etc.

In the NBA a dollar is ALWAYS worth more than 4 quarters.

So that's my TLDR argument for CP3 if that's really the trade that will get it done.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:54 am    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
I'm surprised and shocked this has gone on 17 pages, but I'll go ahead and leave my one and only post in here.

First off, it does NOT matter what CP3 wants.


First off, it always matters what a disgruntled superstar wants and they almost always eventually get moved to one of their short list of destinations. Whether the Lakers FO wants to move on that or has the pieces to do so is another story, but lets cut the crap about player wishes don't matter when the player is a future HoFer and the head of the players union to boot. If anyone wants to make a point that players have the power, it is the guy leading the union.

And lets get real....Paul isn't playing out his days for a not-going-anywhere franchise in one of the crappiest states. He wants his ring to cement his legacy and he'll force his way to a contender one way or another.
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:57 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Noel/Dwight/Boogie
AD/Kuz/Dudley
LeBron/Harkless/Korver
KCP/Waiters/THT
CP3/Caruso

You say no to that team?


What happened to kief and rondo?

I'd ask for bazley in any trade with OKC as we are giving cap relief + kuzma and 28

Read the post above. Wouldnt be able to retain Morris unless he signed for the vet min and Rondo would be included on a bloated salary in a sign and trade.


The s&t scenario is a wishful thinking. Of all the places why would rondo go to OKC?

All of ADs bff's r coming back: cousins and rondo
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JIFISH
Star Player
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 9315
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:58 am    Post subject:

So folks aren't content with the damage the first CP3 trade did, and want to see how much damage a 2nd CP3 trade could do?

Destroying the career of Odom and driving away Gasol wasn't enough?

I am not interested in destroying our team's chemistry on the off chance that CP3 might still have a little gas left in the tank for another season or 2.

Of course, like everyone else here, I have no say in the matter, and will support whatever the Lakers front office decides is best for the team.

But trading for CP3 is not something I look forward to.
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Last edited by JIFISH on Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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