Whitey Ford pass age 91

 
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Whitey Ford pass age 91

As a Brooklyn Dodgers fan I didn't like Whitey Ford. He killed us. RIP

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:18 am    Post subject:

I think Whitey killed us when he was young. The one I remember is him trying to outduel Koufax / Drysdale at their best in 1963 and getting swept.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject:

On the Brooks....I cant even imagine what it was like to be a fan of that team during the late Brooklyn years.....the greatest collection of hitters: Campanella, Hodges, Snider, Reese, Robinson, Furillo and Gilliam. That 1953 team is literally an all star team collection of hitters peaking at the right time and to lose the World Series every damn time. Can you imagine how much flack Newcombe and Branca would have gotten in this time period....and Newcombe was getting plenty of (bleep) as a choker even back then.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
On the Brooks....I cant even imagine what it was like to be a fan of that team during the late Brooklyn years.....the greatest collection of hitters: Campanella, Hodges, Snider, Reese, Robinson, Furillo and Gilliam. That 1953 team is literally an all star team collection of hitters peaking at the right time and to lose the World Series every damn time. Can you imagine how much flack Newcombe and Branca would have gotten in this time period....and Newcombe was getting plenty of (bleep) as a choker even back then.


Have you read The Boys of Summer by Roger Kahn?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
On the Brooks....I cant even imagine what it was like to be a fan of that team during the late Brooklyn years.....the greatest collection of hitters: Campanella, Hodges, Snider, Reese, Robinson, Furillo and Gilliam. That 1953 team is literally an all star team collection of hitters peaking at the right time and to lose the World Series every damn time. Can you imagine how much flack Newcombe and Branca would have gotten in this time period....and Newcombe was getting plenty of (bleep) as a choker even back then.


Have you read The Boys of Summer by Roger Kahn?


No I did not. I will though if you think its a great read.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:06 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
On the Brooks....I cant even imagine what it was like to be a fan of that team during the late Brooklyn years.....the greatest collection of hitters: Campanella, Hodges, Snider, Reese, Robinson, Furillo and Gilliam. That 1953 team is literally an all star team collection of hitters peaking at the right time and to lose the World Series every damn time. Can you imagine how much flack Newcombe and Branca would have gotten in this time period....and Newcombe was getting plenty of (bleep) as a choker even back then.


Have you read The Boys of Summer by Roger Kahn?


No I did not. I will though if you think its a great read.



It's a great read. The author is a Brooklyn-born Dodgers fan who grows up loving baseball and the Dodgers, which bonds him with his father. He becomes a sports journalist, covering the Dodgers for the New York Herald Tribune back in 1953 and 1954, on the heels of being destroyed by the infamous Bobby Thompson's "Shot heard around the world". The book is enveloped in sadness, as Kahn called those Dodgers teams the greatest everyday ballplayers of all time (which excludes the pitching). It's funny, sentimental and sad as they always fall short of the mark either in the World Series or for the pennant versus the hated New York Giants.

They won the year after he was re-assigned. At that point he mentions that they were already in decline.

What's powerful about the book isn't the anecdotes, which are funny. It's the humanity. He details how the team embraced Jackie Robinson, and yet two players vented racism as one of them had his starting job threatened by the black rookie Jim Gillium. Kahn listened to them and had to decide on whether to write the story (unheard of back then) and betray a confidence. He wrote the story, and of course it was explosive. The players were angry, but forgave him.

Above all, these are regular men of the age. They lived in Brooklyn, and they worked during the offseason to make ends meet. This was before television and sneaker revenues elevated them above the station of mere mortals.

In the second half of the book Kahn hunts them all down, well after retirement. That is where the book shines, it shows how life has beaten many of them down, but most of them still try to the challenges imposed by hardship.

It's an interesting read. It's a tome about life masquerading as a sports book.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:24 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
On the Brooks....I cant even imagine what it was like to be a fan of that team during the late Brooklyn years.....the greatest collection of hitters: Campanella, Hodges, Snider, Reese, Robinson, Furillo and Gilliam. That 1953 team is literally an all star team collection of hitters peaking at the right time and to lose the World Series every damn time. Can you imagine how much flack Newcombe and Branca would have gotten in this time period....and Newcombe was getting plenty of (bleep) as a choker even back then.

It was excruciating. The mantra became "Wait Till Next Year."

You had to live in New Jersey to experience the joy of the 1955 World Series. The streets were quiet during game 7. I don't remember all the details but I recall the after. There were people shouting from their windows, literally dancing in the streets.

I can still hear Vinny saying Reese to Robinson to Hodges 6 4 3 double play.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
On the Brooks....I cant even imagine what it was like to be a fan of that team during the late Brooklyn years.....the greatest collection of hitters: Campanella, Hodges, Snider, Reese, Robinson, Furillo and Gilliam. That 1953 team is literally an all star team collection of hitters peaking at the right time and to lose the World Series every damn time. Can you imagine how much flack Newcombe and Branca would have gotten in this time period....and Newcombe was getting plenty of (bleep) as a choker even back then.


Have you read The Boys of Summer by Roger Kahn?


No I did not. I will though if you think its a great read.



It's a great read. The author is a Brooklyn-born Dodgers fan who grows up loving baseball and the Dodgers, which bonds him with his father. He becomes a sports journalist, covering the Dodgers for the New York Herald Tribune back in 1953 and 1954, on the heels of being destroyed by the infamous Bobby Thompson's "Shot heard around the world". The book is enveloped in sadness, as Kahn called those Dodgers teams the greatest everyday ballplayers of all time (which excludes the pitching). It's funny, sentimental and sad as they always fall short of the mark either in the World Series or for the pennant versus the hated New York Giants.

They won the year after he was re-assigned. At that point he mentions that they were already in decline.

What's powerful about the book isn't the anecdotes, which are funny. It's the humanity. He details how the team embraced Jackie Robinson, and yet two players vented racism as one of them had his starting job threatened by the black rookie Jim Gillium. Kahn listened to them and had to decide on whether to write the story (unheard of back then) and betray a confidence. He wrote the story, and of course it was explosive. The players were angry, but forgave him.

Above all, these are regular men of the age. They lived in Brooklyn, and they worked during the offseason to make ends meet. This was before television and sneaker revenues elevated them above the station of mere mortals.

In the second half of the book Kahn hunts them all down, well after retirement. That is where the book shines, it shows how life has beaten many of them down, but most of them still try to the challenges imposed by hardship.

It's an interesting read. It's a tome about life masquerading as a sports book.


Its like our entire Dodgers history even starting from before the Boys of Summer to the Van Mungo Days was a story of unfulfilled expectations. You got the "The Infield" which ran into the Reggie Jackson A's/Yankees and could only get 1 ring during the decade they were together. The Niedenfuer incident of 1985, disappointment of the 5 straight rookies of the year in the 90s followed by the disappointment of the Kevin Brown/Gary Sheffield/Shawn Green Dodgers to the inability to win by the "Young Core" of Kersh, Kemp, Loney, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton - dont even get me started on the latter 2. The one period of dominance was when we were sharing supremacy with the Whitey Ford Yankees in the 60s with Koufax, Drysdale and Osteen. Even that team though has 1 player that disappointed despite MVP talent because of unfortunate circumstances: Tommy Davis. In a sense, the improbability of the 1988 World Series win was long overdue for an organization that should have won a lot more than it really did.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject:

^

Don't forget Johnny Podres and Ron Peronoski. Podres cut his prime short due to alcohol.

In some ways 1965 rather than 1963 was high water mark for the Dodgers, at least in terms of Koufax and Drysdale. As you mentioned, they lost Tommy Davis who was their only hitter. Koufax had to be outstanding just to compete with the SF Giants. That was the year Marichal tried bashing in Rosboro's head with a bat, the rivalry was that intense. Drysdale wasn't just outstanding on the mound, he was also the Dodger's best pinch hitter. Koufax pitched his perfect game and won the Cy Young. He probably would have won over 35 games pitching against the Dodgers.

1988 was sweet revenge. With the exception of Hersheiser and Gibson, it was a pretty mediocre team overall. But it was a reversal of fortune year as they had luck on their side for a change.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
^

Don't forget Johnny Podres and Ron Peronoski. Podres cut his prime short due to alcohol.

In some ways 1965 rather than 1963 was high water mark for the Dodgers, at least in terms of Koufax and Drysdale. As you mentioned, they lost Tommy Davis who was their only hitter. Koufax had to be outstanding just to compete with the SF Giants. That was the year Marichal tried bashing in Rosboro's head with a bat, the rivalry was that intense. Drysdale wasn't just outstanding on the mound, he was also the Dodger's best pinch hitter. Koufax pitched his perfect game and won the Cy Young. He probably would have won over 35 games pitching against the Dodgers.

1988 was sweet revenge. With the exception of Hersheiser and Gibson, it was a pretty mediocre team overall. But it was a reversal of fortune year as they had luck on their side for a change.


Goodness me I didnt even mention three of the greatest wastes of pure-baseball talent possibly ever that all wore Dodger uniforms - the precursor to our very own Cody Bellinger and the Black Ted Williams - Darryl Strawberry. The "more talented Willie Mays - which was not an exaggeration for those of us who saw him as a Red" Eric Davis and a greater talent than Willie Mays according to Leo Durocher (as hard as that is to believe) - Pete Reiser. Its amazing we won the titles we have.....we have very much been a snakebit organization
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject:

never would have guessed he'd outlive Eddie Van Halen...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject:

As would be expected, the idol of my youth was Sandy Koufax. When I learned that Whitey Ford had not only a better ERA than Sandy, and a better ERA+, I could not help but respect him.

A quick peek seems to put him at or near 10th all time in ERA+ of starting pitchers after the dead-ball era, and tied for 29th regardless of era or starter status.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:35 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
As would be expected, the idol of my youth was Sandy Koufax. When I learned that Whitey Ford had not only a better ERA than Sandy, and a better ERA+, I could not help but respect him.

A quick peek seems to put him at or near 10th all time in ERA+ of starting pitchers after the dead-ball era, and tied for 29th regardless of era or starter status.



Whitey Ford was a great pitcher, but I put him on a tier with Marichal, Drysdale, et al. His ERA was outstanding, but the NYYs were something of an anomaly in an era where most of the quality hitters were stacked in the NL. Koufax was a shooting star, no one could pitch like Sandy during his all too brief prime. A close second was Bob Gibson, and on the next tier came the other dominant pitchers of the period: Ford, Drysdale, Marichal, Bunning, and Spahn. That's a HOF crowd, and it is easy to argue the merits of one over the others. I could add Maglie and Podres while in their primes, but there are reasons why neither made the HOF.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:44 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
ribeye wrote:
As would be expected, the idol of my youth was Sandy Koufax. When I learned that Whitey Ford had not only a better ERA than Sandy, and a better ERA+, I could not help but respect him.

A quick peek seems to put him at or near 10th all time in ERA+ of starting pitchers after the dead-ball era, and tied for 29th regardless of era or starter status.



Whitey Ford was a great pitcher, but I put him on a tier with Marichal, Drysdale, et al. His ERA was outstanding, but the NYYs were something of an anomaly in an era where most of the quality hitters were stacked in the NL. Koufax was a shooting star, no one could pitch like Sandy during his all too brief prime. A close second was Bob Gibson, and on the next tier came the other dominant pitchers of the period: Ford, Drysdale, Marichal, Bunning, and Spahn. That's a HOF crowd, and it is easy to argue the merits of one over the others. I could add Maglie and Podres while in their primes, but there are reasons why neither made the HOF.


Sal the Barber and Johnny Podres. Two pitchers inferior to Don Newcombe in ability but nobody would choose Newk over either Maglie or Podres in a big game.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:52 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
ribeye wrote:
As would be expected, the idol of my youth was Sandy Koufax. When I learned that Whitey Ford had not only a better ERA than Sandy, and a better ERA+, I could not help but respect him.

A quick peek seems to put him at or near 10th all time in ERA+ of starting pitchers after the dead-ball era, and tied for 29th regardless of era or starter status.



Whitey Ford was a great pitcher, but I put him on a tier with Marichal, Drysdale, et al. His ERA was outstanding, but the NYYs were something of an anomaly in an era where most of the quality hitters were stacked in the NL. Koufax was a shooting star, no one could pitch like Sandy during his all too brief prime. A close second was Bob Gibson, and on the next tier came the other dominant pitchers of the period: Ford, Drysdale, Marichal, Bunning, and Spahn. That's a HOF crowd, and it is easy to argue the merits of one over the others. I could add Maglie and Podres while in their primes, but there are reasons why neither made the HOF.


Sal the Barber and Johnny Podres. Two pitchers inferior to Don Newcombe in ability but nobody would choose Newk over either Maglie or Podres in a big game.



Sad, but all big Don Newcombe just couldn't get it done when it really counted.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject:

Probably one of the best big game pitchers of all time. RIP
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