Clippers: A History of Dissapointment
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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:56 am    Post subject: Clippers: A History of Dissapointment

Hopefully they will be once again disappointed THIS SEASON, but let's get in the time machine take a ride back to yesteryear drafts to chuckle at their many blunders:

2016: With the 25th Pick: they took Brice Johnson who played 21 games for the Clippers in two seasons before playing 9 games for the Griz in 2017-18 and has been out of the NBA ever since. Pascal Siakam was taken 27th.

2014: With the 28th Pick: They took CJ Wilcox, who averaged 2.5 points for them over 44 games and is now also out of the NBA. Nikola Jokic was taken thirteen picks later.

2013: With the 25th Pick: They took Reggie Bullock, who played two seasons for them averaging 2.6 ppg. Rudy Gorbet was taken two picks later.

2010: With the 8th Pick, they took Al-Faroug-Aminu who averaged 5.6 ppg in his one season with them. Paul George was taken two picks later.

2009: With the 1st Pick, they took Blake Griffin, who blew out his knee and missed the entire first season, he averaged 21+ ppg over the next 7 disappointing seasons before being traded away. Jame Hardin was taken 2 picks later and Steph Curry six picks later!

2007: With the 14th Pick: they took Al Thornton, who played 3 seasons with them and was out of the NBA in four seasons. Marci Belinelli was taken four picks later and while NOT a great player by any stretch of the imagination, at least he is STILL playing.

2006: With the 12th Pick: they took Yaroslav Korolev, who played 34 games for them averaging 1.1 ppg. Lou Williams was taken 33 picks later (lol).

2004: With the 4th Pick: they took Shaun Livingston who averaged 7.4 points for them over three seasons and then was dumped when he blew out his knee. Later picks included Josh Smith, Andre Iguodala, JR Smith, etc, etc.

2001: With the 8th Pick: they took Chris Wilcox: the next two picks were: Amar'e Stoudemire and Caron Butler....

2000: with the 2nd Pick: they Tyson Chandler whom they traded immediately for Eldon Brand, who was ok, but picked later was: Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson and Zach Randolph!

And the 1990's were even worse:

1999: with the 4th Pick: they took Lamar Odom, who they dumped after 4 seasons. Later picks included: Andre Miller, Shaun Marion, Richard Hamilton, Jason Terry, Ron Artest.

1998: with the 1st Pick (and one of their worst blunders): they took Michael Olowakandi, who was dumped after 5 years, averaging a whopping 9.9 ppg! Later in the first round they could have taken: Dirk Nowitski, Paul Pierce or even Vince Carter.

1996: with the 7th Pick: they took Lorenzen Wright (RIP), dumped him after 3 seasons where he averaged 10ppg. The 13th pick in that years draft was some kid named Kobe Bryant!

1995: With the 2nd pick, they took Antonio MyDyess. who they traded immediately to Denver, but the next three picks were Jerry Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace and Kevin Garnet (ouch!)

1992: With the 16th Pick: they took Randy Woods, who averaged 11 ppg for them his first three seasons, but was out of the NBA after 9 games of his fourth season. The next few picks after him had 9-12-15 year NBA careers: Doug Christie, Tracy Murray and Don MacLean.

1991: With the 22nd Pick: they took LeRon Ellis, who averaged 1.1 points in the 29 games he played with them in his lone season there, in fact he was out of the NBA in two years and 91 total games. Rick Fox was taken two picks later.

1990: With the 8th Pick: they took Bo Kimble, a total bust, I think they selected him in memory of Hank Gathers, Bo averaged 5.5 ppg in his two seasons and was out of the NBA after 9 games in his third season. Tyrone Hill was taken three picks later.

So how did they do in the 1980's you ask? (Hint: it was worse!)

1989: With the 2nd pick: they selected Danny Ferry who REFUSED to play for them, they traded his rights away (for Ron Harper). Later picks included: Shawn Kemp, Glen Rice, & Tim Hardaway

1988: With the 1st Pick: they took Danny Manning, he was ok, but they traded him at 26 years old during his 6th season. Later picks included: Mitch Richmond, Rik Smits, Rod Strickland.

1987: With the 4th Pick: They took Reggie Williams, dumped him during his third season, he averaged 10 ppg for them. Taken later in the draft was: Scotty Pippen, Reggie Miller and Kevin Johnson (told ya it gets worse)!

1985: With the 3rd Pick: they took Benoit Benjamin (insert jokes here), he averaged 13ppg and 6rpg for them before being dumped. Taken AFTER Benoit was: Karl Malone, Chris Mullen, Charles Oakley, Detlef Schrempf and Joe Dumars!

1984: With the 8th Pick: they took Lancaster Gorden (who?), he played parts of 4 seasons for the Clippers (before leaving the NBA) averaged 5.5 points. Taken after him was Otis Thorpe, Kevin Willis and John Stockton!

1983: With the 4th Pick they selected Byron Scott and immediately traded him for Norm Nixon (sorry Norm!). NOTE: Clyde Drexler was selected 10 picks after Byron for those of you who want to dream)...

1982: With the 2nd Pick: they took Terry Cummings whom had a nice long, productive NBA career, although he was only with the Clippers his first two seasons. The next pick after Terry was: Dominique Wilkens!

1981: With the 8th Pick, they selected Tom Chambers, who only spent the first two of his 16 total NBA seasons with them. At this point they were making good picks, but could not / would not keep them...

1980: with the 9th Pick: they took Michael Brooks, had him for only four seasons and he played only 26 more games before leaving the NBA. Two picks later they could have had Kiki Vanderweghe.


I'm tired now, I'll do the 70's if anyone actually cares..

But I think you can see that the Clippers (under the Sterling control) were an inept mess that could have easily become a powerhouse with the right management and "evaluators of talent"...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject:

You realize you can do this for pretty much any franchise, right?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
You realize you can do this for pretty much any franchise, right?


You really can't.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:30 am    Post subject:

Anyone who read Street & Smith's was as informed as the Clipper scouts. Not that it mattered, the Clips wouldn't spend the money to develop players anyway.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject:

Well. Thanks to magic Johnson. They have Jerry west. Hopefully Jerry retires soon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject:

There have actually been some really good analyses of drafting history, such as calculating career performance by different metrics and comparing that to draft positions.

That's a better method than "look who they missed" because most teams miss out on players who turn out better than expected all the time -- that's just the nature of drafting.

The Clippers generally do badly in most of these analysis.

The consensus seems to be that the Spurs are the best drafters.

We do well in some analysis, mediocre in others, depending on the criteria they use.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:12 pm    Post subject:

Can’t wait to see the 2021-2026 additions to this list with the five draft picks (four unprotected) and two pick swaps that they traded for Paul George, in addition to SGA and Gallinari...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject:

I hate the Clippers as much as the next guy... but we recently drafted LONZO BALL with the #2 pick with Tatum and Donovan Mitchell still onboard.

Lonzo Ball.

Same Lonzo Ball that so many fans on here held on for too long because a) they don't know basketball and b) they didn't want to admit they were wrong.

I think Lonzo's literally out of the league in a few years.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:20 am    Post subject:

methdxman wrote:
I hate the Clippers as much as the next guy... but we recently drafted LONZO BALL with the #2 pick with Tatum and Donovan Mitchell still onboard.

Lonzo Ball.

Same Lonzo Ball that so many fans on here held on for too long because a) they don't know basketball and b) they didn't want to admit they were wrong.

I think Lonzo's literally out of the league in a few years.


Out of the league? Through three seasons, Lonzo's career average is 11-6-7. He might not be a perennial all-star, but he's the type of guy who will probably stick in the NBA for 15 or 20 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject:

methdxman wrote:
I hate the Clippers as much as the next guy... but we recently drafted LONZO BALL with the #2 pick with Tatum and Donovan Mitchell still onboard.


I get it, but do you really think choosing Ball over Tatum, ranks anywhere close to as bad as choosing:

Lancaster Gorden over John Stockton
Benoit Benjamin over Karl Malone
Reggie Williams over Scotty Pippen

Three of the greatest 50 players of all time?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject:

It will.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:26 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
methdxman wrote:
I hate the Clippers as much as the next guy... but we recently drafted LONZO BALL with the #2 pick with Tatum and Donovan Mitchell still onboard.

Lonzo Ball.

Same Lonzo Ball that so many fans on here held on for too long because a) they don't know basketball and b) they didn't want to admit they were wrong.

I think Lonzo's literally out of the league in a few years.


Out of the league? Through three seasons, Lonzo's career average is 11-6-7. He might not be a perennial all-star, but he's the type of guy who will probably stick in the NBA for 15 or 20 years.


Always kind of funny when someone talks trash on a group and then does the same exact thing but in the opposite direction.

I agree though, as a #2 pick he has obviously not lived up to that but he is in noway even remotely close to being out of the league and wont be for a very long time even if he doesn't improve much. The big argument could be made if he is a legit starter or best suited for a bench unit.

He's still young enough though along with Ingram where they can improve a good amount in the next year or two and it wont be too much of a surprise. He's shown brilliant flashes along with some extreme lows, he just needs to get to where he's at least solid consistently and I think that's very reasonable and probable with a much higher ceiling still possible.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:23 am    Post subject:

methdxman wrote:
I hate the Clippers as much as the next guy... but we recently drafted LONZO BALL with the #2 pick with Tatum and Donovan Mitchell still onboard.

Lonzo Ball.

Same Lonzo Ball that so many fans on here held on for too long because a) they don't know basketball and b) they didn't want to admit they were wrong.

I think Lonzo's literally out of the league in a few years.


Do you like Caruso? If so, you do realize that he is Lonzo-lite, right? Expectations were too high for Lonzo, but if you don't think he's a legit NBA player, then I'd question your understanding of basketball. Only injuries can prevent him from having a long and productive career. The kid still has great defensive and passing instincts even though his offense still needs a lot of work. However, he did finish this season shooting almost 38% from 3. He's still a work in progress, and I'm interested to see what further progress he can make with another offseason of work ahead of him.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:19 am    Post subject:

hype wrote:

Always kind of funny when someone talks trash on a group and then does the same exact thing but in the opposite direction.

I agree though, as a #2 pick he has obviously not lived up to that but he is in noway even remotely close to being out of the league and wont be for a very long time even if he doesn't improve much. The big argument could be made if he is a legit starter or best suited for a bench unit.

He's still young enough though along with Ingram where they can improve a good amount in the next year or two and it wont be too much of a surprise. He's shown brilliant flashes along with some extreme lows, he just needs to get to where he's at least solid consistently and I think that's very reasonable and probable with a much higher ceiling still possible.


82games did an analysis of various draft positions.

The #2 pick overall had career averages of 13-6-3. About 60% of the picks became "stars," 25% were "solid," and 15% "role players."

Their system for deciding the classes was simplistic -- adding up career averages for points, rebounds and assists. A "star" needed 20 points across the three categories. So Emeka Okafor counts as a star as much as Kevin Durant does. That's an issue, obviously.

That said, the amount of success with picks 2, 3, 4, and 5 were roughly the same. So a team gets a little edge with having the #1 pick, but having the #2 pick doesn't seem to be a great advantage over having the #5 pick.

Ball will probably turn out to be an average #2 pick.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
hype wrote:

Always kind of funny when someone talks trash on a group and then does the same exact thing but in the opposite direction.

I agree though, as a #2 pick he has obviously not lived up to that but he is in noway even remotely close to being out of the league and wont be for a very long time even if he doesn't improve much. The big argument could be made if he is a legit starter or best suited for a bench unit.

He's still young enough though along with Ingram where they can improve a good amount in the next year or two and it wont be too much of a surprise. He's shown brilliant flashes along with some extreme lows, he just needs to get to where he's at least solid consistently and I think that's very reasonable and probable with a much higher ceiling still possible.


82games did an analysis of various draft positions.

The #2 pick overall had career averages of 13-6-3. About 60% of the picks became "stars," 25% were "solid," and 15% "role players."

Their system for deciding the classes was simplistic -- adding up career averages for points, rebounds and assists. A "star" needed 20 points across the three categories. So Emeka Okafor counts as a star as much as Kevin Durant does. That's an issue, obviously.

That said, the amount of success with picks 2, 3, 4, and 5 were roughly the same. So a team gets a little edge with having the #1 pick, but having the #2 pick doesn't seem to be a great advantage over having the #5 pick.

Ball will probably turn out to be an average #2 pick.


For some reason, I feel like #3 picks tend to be better than #3 picks. Michael Jordan, Doncic, Harden, etc. Not sure if the statistics hold this up. #2 just seems like it’s filled with busts for some reason.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:02 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
For some reason, I feel like #3 picks tend to be better than #3 picks. Michael Jordan, Doncic, Harden, etc. Not sure if the statistics hold this up. #2 just seems like it’s filled with busts for some reason.




That's probably been true in recent drafts. Overall, I think you have more MVPs and Hall of Famers drafted at #2 than #3. I might have missed a guy or two but here are all the HofFamers (or guys who will certainly make the Hall) drafted at those two spots.

#2 picks: Kevin Durant, Isiah Thomas, Alonzo Mourning, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Bob McAdoo, Jerry West, Rick Barry, Bill Russell, Bob Pettit, Wes Unseld, Earl Monroe, Dave Bing, Bailey Howell, Maurice Stokes,

#3 picks: Jordan, Harden, Carmelo Anthony, Pau Gasol, Grant Hill, Kevin McHale, Pete Maravich, Nate Thurmond, Bob Cousy, Dominque Wilkens, Zelmo Beatty
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:29 pm    Post subject:

And once again, they deliver.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:34 pm    Post subject:

Looks like we got to do an update....
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:45 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Looks like we got to do an update....


lmao!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:37 am    Post subject:

Bump
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject:

Ice Cube put it best: "Clippers are a second round dynasty"
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Clippers: A History of Dissapointment

unleasHell wrote:


2014: With the 28th Pick: They took CJ Wilcox, who averaged 2.5 points for them over 44 games and is now also out of the NBA. Nikola Jokic was taken thirteen picks later.



LOLOLOL
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject:

Five picks, two swaps, and SGA for a blown 3-1 lead in the second round. What happens when Kawhi and PG opt out next year?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Five picks, two swaps, and SGA for a blown 3-1 lead in the second round. What happens when Kawhi and PG opt out next year?


That team is lottery bound the second Kawhi is gone.

They totally gave away their future.

Bye.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:38 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Five picks, two swaps, and SGA for a blown 3-1 lead in the second round. What happens when Kawhi and PG opt out next year?


A billion dollar arena for a team that will be giving away tickets to see mediocrity in 2024.
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