Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: LeBron vs Magic
LeBron has averaged the most assists on the Lakers since Magic in 1990-1991... For the sake of comparison, assume both are in their primes. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
numerically, the number of assists per game can compare.
But it is nothing like Magic.
Lebron is doing high school level passing.
Magic is doing PhD level passing.
Magic is making 90% of his free throws.
Magic has an even better body for basketball than Lebron. It's not about muscles.
Lebron jumps higher. Doesn't use it much honestly.
Even now, you can watch Magic highlights and already knowing that specific play, you still can't see how he makes the pass. That is truly remarkable.
I can't think of a single thing other than jumping and musculature that I would say lebron is "better" at.
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: LeBron vs Magic
CandyCanes wrote:
LeBron has averaged the most assists on the Lakers since Magic in 1990-1991... For the sake of comparison, assume both are in their primes.
I'd be happy with either one. Different players, but obviously you can create a winning team with either. That said, Magic from the 80s will always have a special place in my heart because that era of basketball was so joyous.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:34 pm Post subject:
Imagine, post prime LeBron (or technically still prime) statistically is like prime Magic, just without so many superstars. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Magic beyond any shadow of a doubt. LeBron is tremendous but he doesn’t have the mental toughness of Magic. Magic was in total command out there most of the time and was a superior team leader.
a regular play/assist in Magic's world....
6-7 offense+defensive players running towards the rim
you can't even really see the ball
just a bunch of bodies
all of a sudden worthy dunks, wide open
typical magic
lebron is nothing like this
lebron will be dribbling 5-10s at the top of the key, nobody is doing anything
throws a pass to kcp/green, they make a 3
1 assist
yay
Magic had better shooting efficiency... was a better free throw shooter... had way more assists per 36 minutes, rebounded the same... had a better assist/turnover ratio.
It would be interesting to see how he'd have done on a rebuilding or terrible team during his prime. Personally I think he could have scored 30 PPG
People say he was playing with Hall of Famers but Kareem was old by the time he played with Magic... he won his first title without Kareem or Worthy on the court. He beat Dr. J and Mo Cheeks with Jim Chones at center.
He also won a national championship with only Greg Kelser.
People only focus on the final numbers... which is why chuckers are the way they are maybe.
Magic had better shooting efficiency... was a better free throw shooter... had way more assists per 36 minutes, rebounded the same... had a better assist/turnover ratio.
It would be interesting to see how he'd have done on a rebuilding or terrible team during his prime. Personally I think he could have scored 30 PPG
People say he was playing with Hall of Famers but Kareem was old by the time he played with Magic... he won his first title without Kareem or Worthy on the court. He beat Dr. J and Mo Cheeks with Jim Chones at center.
He also won a national championship with only Greg Kelser.
People only focus on the final numbers... which is why chuckers are the way they are maybe.
I think for your thought experiment there was a similar guy...Pistol Pete. And he was on a bad team, and they never did well and he is largely forgotten and not considered in the top10 or anything. Sad, in my opinion. He was basically Magic+Curry in one person.
THe team matters. The situation matters. Right time Right place. If you get the right time in the right place in the most ultra great way, you end up with Michael Jordan.
Magic hands down. But it's great to see a comparison between the two, because LBJ is like a combo of Magic/MJ. He has also been compared to Kobe. But, I always felt at his best he would be closer to a Magic type, which he is doing now. Perhaps due to age and having another top 5 player as his teammate. But, its nice to see him rack up those assists. He always seemed the type to enjoy playing like that, but eas kind of forced in to being a big time scorer because he is just better than everybody, and his team needed him to do that.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:27 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Magic had better shooting efficiency... was a better free throw shooter... had way more assists per 36 minutes, rebounded the same... had a better assist/turnover ratio.
It would be interesting to see how he'd have done on a rebuilding or terrible team during his prime. Personally I think he could have scored 30 PPG
People say he was playing with Hall of Famers but Kareem was old by the time he played with Magic... he won his first title without Kareem or Worthy on the court. He beat Dr. J and Mo Cheeks with Jim Chones at center.
He also won a national championship with only Greg Kelser.
People only focus on the final numbers... which is why chuckers are the way they are maybe.
I think for your thought experiment there was a similar guy...Pistol Pete. And he was on a bad team, and they never did well and he is largely forgotten and not considered in the top10 or anything. Sad, in my opinion. He was basically Magic+Curry in one person.
THe team matters. The situation matters. Right time Right place. If you get the right time in the right place in the most ultra great way, you end up with Michael Jordan.
I find the stat part of misleading. It's those stats to those league averages vs what LeBron did with more modern defenses, and maybe a dropped league TS%.
Then there's pace. Who had more opportunities due to the number of possessions?
LeBron now is basically the modern version of 1991 Magic IMHO, but when you're THAT physically dominant, you don't need to be the 10-12 apg guy (as if he was ever really low in assists anyway?)
I will say that Magic won rings from the jump. Very difficult to do. I also think that LBJ to me isn't really that much different from the HS level guy outside of the athletic differences.
But no way in hell do I think Magic is getting defensive stops against Kawhi or PG in prime.
Can we also assume LeBron has won as many Rings as Magic? _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:52 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Magic had better shooting efficiency... was a better free throw shooter... had way more assists per 36 minutes, rebounded the same... had a better assist/turnover ratio.
It would be interesting to see how he'd have done on a rebuilding or terrible team during his prime. Personally I think he could have scored 30 PPG
People say he was playing with Hall of Famers but Kareem was old by the time he played with Magic... he won his first title without Kareem or Worthy on the court. He beat Dr. J and Mo Cheeks with Jim Chones at center.
He also won a national championship with only Greg Kelser.
People only focus on the final numbers... which is why chuckers are the way they are maybe.
I think for your thought experiment there was a similar guy...Pistol Pete. And he was on a bad team, and they never did well and he is largely forgotten and not considered in the top10 or anything. Sad, in my opinion. He was basically Magic+Curry in one person.
THe team matters. The situation matters. Right time Right place. If you get the right time in the right place in the most ultra great way, you end up with Michael Jordan.
I find the stat part of misleading. It's those stats to those league averages vs what LeBron did with more modern defenses, and maybe a dropped league TS%.
Then there's pace. Who had more opportunities due to the number of possessions?
LeBron now is basically the modern version of 1991 Magic IMHO, but when you're THAT physically dominant, you don't need to be the 10-12 apg guy (as if he was ever really low in assists anyway?)
I will say that Magic won rings from the jump. Very difficult to do. I also think that LBJ to me isn't really that much different from the HS level guy outside of the athletic differences.
But no way in hell do I think Magic is getting defensive stops against Kawhi or PG in prime.
League Average Total Shooting Percentage in 1980
53.1%
League Average Total Shooting Percentage in 2020
56.4%
Magic's TS% is 61.0%
LBJ's TS% is 58.6%
Magic averaged about 8% over the league average
LBJ averaged about 2% over the league average
IF someone told him to work on the three... he would have been a better 3 point shooter as he was a superior FT shooter and he was taller than all the PGs
I don't know why you guys keep making me defend Magic... I'm still annoyed at him for his GM tenure.
People say he was playing with Hall of Famers but Kareem was old by the time he played with Magic...
Not really.
When Magic won his first ring with Kareem, Kareem was league MVP. He was 32 at that point.
For their first three rings together, Kareem played at an all-NBA, all-defensive team level.
By the last two rings, Kareem was up there in years, but even at age 39 Kareem was averaging 18 ppg. on 56% shooting. He was dragging by his final year.
But for most of Magic's career, Kareem was still playing at a high level.
Magic had better shooting efficiency... was a better free throw shooter... had way more assists per 36 minutes, rebounded the same... had a better assist/turnover ratio.
It would be interesting to see how he'd have done on a rebuilding or terrible team during his prime. Personally I think he could have scored 30 PPG
People say he was playing with Hall of Famers but Kareem was old by the time he played with Magic... he won his first title without Kareem or Worthy on the court. He beat Dr. J and Mo Cheeks with Jim Chones at center.
He also won a national championship with only Greg Kelser.
People only focus on the final numbers... which is why chuckers are the way they are maybe.
I think for your thought experiment there was a similar guy...Pistol Pete. And he was on a bad team, and they never did well and he is largely forgotten and not considered in the top10 or anything. Sad, in my opinion. He was basically Magic+Curry in one person.
THe team matters. The situation matters. Right time Right place. If you get the right time in the right place in the most ultra great way, you end up with Michael Jordan.
Maravich is an interesting case. He was drafted onto a 48-win Hawks team and it dropped to a 36 win team with him.
That Hawks team actually did have some good players. Hall of Famer Walt Bellamy, all stars in Lou Hudson, Bill Bridges, and Joe Caldwell.
The rap on the team was the same as the rap on Pete. Everyone wanted to do their own thing.
That will always be the Maravich debate: Did he care more about being exciting to watch and putting on a show than he cared about winning?
He's one of those players that some people will furiously argue is one of the most underrated of all time, and some will argue is the most overrated.
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