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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:40 am    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject:

Deliveries are made in the rear.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject:

I think we should totally revamp not just our criminal justice system, but also the way we treat and think of convicts.

Our justice system should be built around serving convicts and rehabbing them, instead of centering it around punishment. The way it is now, where we treat them as subhuman and feed them s---, all it does is make them even angrier and feel even more like outcasts, which probably contributes to our gnarly recidivism rate.

I read an interesting article in The New Yorker about a prison somewhere in Western Europe (can't remember which nation) where it seems like a rehab center and not a prison. Even with violent criminals, they've seen good results.

As the old saying goes, “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:54 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
I think we should totally revamp not just our criminal justice system, but also the way we treat and think of convicts.

Our justice system should be built around serving convicts and rehabbing them, instead of centering it around punishment. The way it is now, where we treat them as subhuman and feed them s---, all it does is make them even angrier and feel even more like outcasts, which probably contributes to our gnarly recidivism rate.

I read an interesting article in The New Yorker about a prison somewhere in Western Europe (can't remember which nation) where it seems like a rehab center and not a prison. Even with violent criminals, they've seen good results.

As the old saying goes, “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”


You're likely thinking of Norway. Their whole approach to incarceration is rehabilitation and what is called restorative justice. The idea is to not simply punish the criminal, but to try and reduce the harm that comes their crimes and attempt to find a way move forward in a way that is healing for the victim and the perpetrator. And it seems to work well, because their rate of recidivism is very low.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
slavavov wrote:
I think we should totally revamp not just our criminal justice system, but also the way we treat and think of convicts.

Our justice system should be built around serving convicts and rehabbing them, instead of centering it around punishment. The way it is now, where we treat them as subhuman and feed them s---, all it does is make them even angrier and feel even more like outcasts, which probably contributes to our gnarly recidivism rate.

I read an interesting article in The New Yorker about a prison somewhere in Western Europe (can't remember which nation) where it seems like a rehab center and not a prison. Even with violent criminals, they've seen good results.

As the old saying goes, “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”


You're likely thinking of Norway. Their whole approach to incarceration is rehabilitation and what is called restorative justice. The idea is to not simply punish the criminal, but to try and reduce the harm that comes their crimes and attempt to find a way move forward in a way that is healing for the victim and the perpetrator. And it seems to work well, because their rate of recidivism is very low.

I have a good friend from high school who is a lawyer, and he works with people charged with low-level crimes and ex-cons who have just gotten out of prison. He helps divert those low-level offenders and set up resolution face-to-face with the victim, while also putting the offender in an environment where they are built up as people, instead of torn down like our jails and prisons do. He helped turn me on to this whole idea of restorative justice, and I like it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on almost a spiritual level, isn't the idea of prison to "fix" what's wrong with people and repair them before they are released, not just that they pay their debt to society?

I'm not the least bit religious, but the word "penitentiary" is related to the Christian concept of penance. It's funny how some of the most devout Christians are also in favor of some of the most extreme forms of punishment, like beating up kids and capital punishment.

Is that really what Jesus would do?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
slavavov wrote:
I think we should totally revamp not just our criminal justice system, but also the way we treat and think of convicts.

Our justice system should be built around serving convicts and rehabbing them, instead of centering it around punishment. The way it is now, where we treat them as subhuman and feed them s---, all it does is make them even angrier and feel even more like outcasts, which probably contributes to our gnarly recidivism rate.

I read an interesting article in The New Yorker about a prison somewhere in Western Europe (can't remember which nation) where it seems like a rehab center and not a prison. Even with violent criminals, they've seen good results.

As the old saying goes, “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”


You're likely thinking of Norway. Their whole approach to incarceration is rehabilitation and what is called restorative justice. The idea is to not simply punish the criminal, but to try and reduce the harm that comes their crimes and attempt to find a way move forward in a way that is healing for the victim and the perpetrator. And it seems to work well, because their rate of recidivism is very low.


Saw something similar in Germany, where they live in dorms and have access to kitchens (with knives!) and recreation facilities and such. In the northern European model the loss of freedom is the punishment, so suffering and degradation and reduction to being treated like animals while incarcerated is not only not necessary, it reduces the chance of successful societal re-entry.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:38 pm    Post subject:

The most superior string instrument is violin.

Top 2 instruments are piano and violin.

Guitar and bass and a far 3rd and 4th.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:45 pm    Post subject:

Name a song between 1950-2000. And I'll give you a better song that came out after that.

People who claimed music peaked before 2000 either (a) haven't been exposed to quality new music or (b) are old fogies who don't know better.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:01 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Name a song between 1950-2000. And I'll give you a better song that came out after that.

People who claimed music peaked before 2000 either (a) haven't been exposed to quality new music or (b) are old fogies who don't know better.


You can't.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:25 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Name a song between 1950-2000. And I'll give you a better song that came out after that.

People who claimed music peaked before 2000 either (a) haven't been exposed to quality new music or (b) are old fogies who don't know better.


There's certainly been great music in the last 20 years, but anything that is undeniably better than anything previous?

Nope.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Name a song between 1950-2000. And I'll give you a better song that came out after that.

People who claimed music peaked before 2000 either (a) haven't been exposed to quality new music or (b) are old fogies who don't know better.


Or c) weren’t born yesterday with no musical taste.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:01 am    Post subject:

Hey, it's a controversial thread. lol

Tried to channel the hottest of takes.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:11 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
The most superior string instrument is violin.

Top 2 instruments are piano and violin.

Guitar and bass and a far 3rd and 4th.


Wrong.

Within the violin/viola/cello family, the superior instrument is the viola.

Check out Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante for Violin and Viola. Both instruments play the same parts, and the viola always sounds better. The timbre is richer and sounds more like the human voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szMu8si_YYQ&ab_channel=AbnerSilva
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The most superior string instrument is violin.

Top 2 instruments are piano and violin.

Guitar and bass and a far 3rd and 4th.


Wrong.

Within the violin/viola/cello family, the superior instrument is the viola.

Check out Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante for Violin and Viola. Both instruments play the same parts, and the viola always sounds better. The timbre is richer and sounds more like the human voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szMu8si_YYQ&ab_channel=AbnerSilva


The crossover between genres with violin are so vast and successful. Country, hip hop, indie rock, jazz. I can think of so many songs in so many genres elevated with violin.

If you think about scores for movies it just further reinforces my point.

("Good music" or "this song is better than that song" is a completely subjective topic. I'm very confident in my opinions. But I realize there is no empirical way to confirm my hot takes. I'm just arguing it in the spirit of this thread.)

https://youtu.be/hnLsfnchbGs
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Last edited by kikanga on Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject:

There is a good argument to be made about the organ.

It's such a versatile instrument.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:28 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
slavavov wrote:
I think we should totally revamp not just our criminal justice system, but also the way we treat and think of convicts.

Our justice system should be built around serving convicts and rehabbing them, instead of centering it around punishment. The way it is now, where we treat them as subhuman and feed them s---, all it does is make them even angrier and feel even more like outcasts, which probably contributes to our gnarly recidivism rate.

I read an interesting article in The New Yorker about a prison somewhere in Western Europe (can't remember which nation) where it seems like a rehab center and not a prison. Even with violent criminals, they've seen good results.

As the old saying goes, “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”


You're likely thinking of Norway. Their whole approach to incarceration is rehabilitation and what is called restorative justice. The idea is to not simply punish the criminal, but to try and reduce the harm that comes their crimes and attempt to find a way move forward in a way that is healing for the victim and the perpetrator. And it seems to work well, because their rate of recidivism is very low.

On a visit to Oslo a few years back a friend of a friend mentioned growing resentment amongst women in Norway for what's seen as lenient sentencing for sexual predators. I didn't really follow up on it because I was on vacation at the time.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:29 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Hey, it's a controversial thread. lol

Tried to channel the hottest of takes.

I'll bite: Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima (1960)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:13 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
There is a good argument to be made about the organ.

It's such a versatile instrument.


Or how about the accordion? It’s like a mobile organ, so you can polka!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:15 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Wilt wrote:
kikanga wrote:
The most superior string instrument is violin.

Top 2 instruments are piano and violin.

Guitar and bass and a far 3rd and 4th.


Wrong.

Within the violin/viola/cello family, the superior instrument is the viola.

Check out Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante for Violin and Viola. Both instruments play the same parts, and the viola always sounds better. The timbre is richer and sounds more like the human voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szMu8si_YYQ&ab_channel=AbnerSilva


The crossover between genres with violin are so vast and successful. Country, hip hop, indie rock, jazz. I can think of so many songs in so many genres elevated with violin.

If you think about scores for movies it just further reinforces my point.

("Good music" or "this song is better than that song" is a completely subjective topic. I'm very confident in my opinions. But I realize there is no empirical way to confirm my hot takes. I'm just arguing it in the spirit of this thread.)

https://youtu.be/hnLsfnchbGs


I’m a sucker for the sound of the cello. Maybe because hillbillies haven’t figured out how to make it sound awful.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:56 pm    Post subject:

"Neoliberalism" as praxis, ideology, and/or heuristic has always been meaningless pap for low IQ Chomsky nerds.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:22 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

I’m a sucker for the sound of the cello. Maybe because hillbillies haven’t figured out how to make it sound awful.


I know the spirit of this thread is confrontational. And I've tried to channel that. But I really don't feel that way.

Do you have an example of a chello you really like. I'm genuinely interested in expanding my musical horizon.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:48 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:

I’m a sucker for the sound of the cello. Maybe because hillbillies haven’t figured out how to make it sound awful.


I know the spirit of this thread is confrontational. And I've tried to channel that. But I really don't feel that way.

Do you have an example of a chello you really like. I'm genuinely interested in expanding my musical horizon.


There’s a time when limoncello is just right for the situation.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:49 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:

I’m a sucker for the sound of the cello. Maybe because hillbillies haven’t figured out how to make it sound awful.


I know the spirit of this thread is confrontational. And I've tried to channel that. But I really don't feel that way.

Do you have an example of a chello you really like. I'm genuinely interested in expanding my musical horizon.


There’s a time when limoncello is just right for the situation.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject:

Kikanga,

Check out the Cello Concerto by Dvorak. It's my favorite concerto for that instrument. There's a bunch of recordings on Youtube.


But I tend to like the sound of the cello more as part of a string quartet (2 violins, viola, and cello).

Any string quartet by Beethoven is good (the latter ones are bit more challenging to get into at first), and all mature string quartets by Mozart are great (my favorite is K464). Mozart also wrote a few great string quintets, with an extra viola being added. String quintet K515 is one of my all time favorite pieces of music.

Brahms' string quartet in A minor is a nice one.

Shostakovich also wrote a bunch of great string quartets, my favorite is String Quartet No. 6.


Some would automatically tell you to listen to Bach's cello suites, the first one of them being featured in every movie and commercial (you have heard it, I guarantee it). I mean, they're great, but the above pieces are more interesting and more rewarding to the listener.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:21 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Kikanga,

Check out the Cello Concerto by Dvorak. It's my favorite concerto for that instrument. There's a bunch of recordings on Youtube.


But I tend to like the sound of the cello more as part of a string quartet (2 violins, viola, and cello).

Any string quartet by Beethoven is good (the latter ones are bit more challenging to get into at first), and all mature string quartets by Mozart are great (my favorite is K464). Mozart also wrote a few great string quintets, with an extra viola being added. String quintet K515 is one of my all time favorite pieces of music.

Brahms' string quartet in A minor is a nice one.

Shostakovich also wrote a bunch of great string quartets, my favorite is String Quartet No. 6.


Some would automatically tell you to listen to Bach's cello suites, the first one of them being featured in every movie and commercial (you have heard it, I guarantee it). I mean, they're great, but the above pieces are more interesting and more rewarding to the listener.


Years ago, you told me that you didn't like the cello as a solo instrument. That made me seek out every solo I could get my hands on so I could send the best ones to you to try and change your mind like "really? You think this sounds bad?" I ended up not bothering you with it, but it was during that time that I found Yo-Yo Ma's performances of Caprice No. 24, the Bach suites, and the record he made with Bobby McFerrin, which is one of my most treasured pieces of music.

Andante
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