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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | I get it. As much as I would want to see this team go into the playoffs full force, including Dwight, everything that's going on right now has changed the way a lot of people think about how we should live our lives. |
There are levels to all of this. Straight to the point, the NBA is only restarting to fulfill its Disney Corp./ESPN/ABC tv contracts. It has zero to do with public health and safety. Dr. Fauci has already warned the public of this. We are in the middle of a pandemic, largest unemployment in history, most of the country not having worked in four months. Yet, professional ball players are working? The republican nation convention will be held just miles away from this bubble tournament and it will be politicized. On top of all of that, there is that movement for social reform. But let’s ignore all of that so Austin Rivers can collect his $90,000 /week checks. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | I get it. As much as I would want to see this team go into the playoffs full force, including Dwight, everything that's going on right now has changed the way a lot of people think about how we should live our lives. |
There are levels to all of this. Straight to the point, the NBA is only restarting to fulfill its Disney Corp./ESPN/ABC tv contracts. It has zero to do with public health and safety. Dr. Fauci has already warned the public of this. We are in the middle of a pandemic, largest unemployment in history, most of the country not having worked in four months. Yet, professional ball players are working? The republican nation convention will be held just miles away from this bubble tournament and it will be politicized. On top of all of that, there is that movement for social reform. But let’s ignore all of that so Austin Rivers can collect his $90,000 /week checks. |
Way out of context |
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ocho
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Posts: 53770
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | What is a tangible outcome of this sitting out and canceling? |
The protests have already resulted in tangible outcomes. Significant ones. Keeping the pressure turned up could have any number of positive actions implemented, more reforms, accountability, etc.
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Not to mention Dr. Fauci said the NBA’s plan was sound and solid.
The issue was and will be people ignoring the recommendations and phased re-opening. Florida being the prime example. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
Austin Rivers is right, players can play ball and still make a difference in society, he also has a good point that not playing this year could put the players in a bad spot and also the 2021 season in a bad spot. |
What difference in the community has Austin Rivers made? What a joke. He misses his checks, that’s it. |
I thought Rivers statement was completely reasonable myself.
He didn't in anyway deny the financial motivations, so I am not sure what you are taking issue with. Did you actually read what he wrote? |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: |
Austin Rivers is right, players can play ball and still make a difference in society, he also has a good point that not playing this year could put the players in a bad spot and also the 2021 season in a bad spot. |
What difference in the community has Austin Rivers made? What a joke. He misses his checks, that’s it. |
I thought Rivers statement was completely reasonable myself.
He didn't in anyway deny the financial motivations, so I am not sure what you are taking issue with. Did you actually read what he wrote? |
He obviously doesn’t like Austin Rivers. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144456
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | I get it. As much as I would want to see this team go into the playoffs full force, including Dwight, everything that's going on right now has changed the way a lot of people think about how we should live our lives. |
There are levels to all of this. Straight to the point, the NBA is only restarting to fulfill its Disney Corp./ESPN/ABC tv contracts. It has zero to do with public health and safety. Dr. Fauci has already warned the public of this. We are in the middle of a pandemic, largest unemployment in history, most of the country not having worked in four months. Yet, professional ball players are working? The republican nation convention will be held just miles away from this bubble tournament and it will be politicicized. On top of all of that, there is that movement for social reform. But let’s ignore all of that so Austin Rivers can collect his $90,000 /week checks. |
Rivers (and every other player) are collecting about 70% of their checks if they play or not. Even if the league does restart they will pay app. 30% of salary into the escrow account. And likely never get it back.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | Dwight released a statement further clarifying his desire to cancel the season:
| Quote: | “I agree with Kyrie (Irving). Basketball, or entertainment period, isn’t needed at this moment, and will only be a distraction. Sure it might not distract us the players, but we have resources at hand majority of our community don’t have. And the smallest distraction for them, can start a trickle down effect that may never stop. Especially with the way the climate is now. I would love nothing more than to win my very first NBA Championship. But the unity of My People would be an even bigger Championship, that’s just too beautiful to pass up. What better time than now for us to be focusing on our families?
“This is a rare opportunity that, I believe, we as a community should be taking full advantage of. When have we ever had this amount of time to sit and be with our families? This is where our Unity starts. At home! With Family!! European Colonization stripped us of our rich history, and we have yet to sit down and figure us out. The less distractions, the more we can put into action into rediscovering ourselves. Nations come out of families. Black/African American is not a Nation or Nationality. It’s time Our Families became their own Nations. No Basketball till we get things resolved.” |
LINK |
There are a ton of false platitudes he's spouting and co-opting. |
NBA players are used to giving cliched answers to cliched questions.
Yeah, it's a grandiose, meaningless hyperbola.
If starting up the NBA is all it takes to significantly distract from the BLM movement, the movement doesn't have much of a chance.
And when he says "til we get things resolved," what does that mean? I don't know, and I doubt Dwight does either. |
I support him not playing. But I also hope that if this players' movemement gains momentum that better messengers come forward than Kyrie and Dwight.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | Dwight released a statement further clarifying his desire to cancel the season:
| Quote: | “I agree with Kyrie (Irving). Basketball, or entertainment period, isn’t needed at this moment, and will only be a distraction. Sure it might not distract us the players, but we have resources at hand majority of our community don’t have. And the smallest distraction for them, can start a trickle down effect that may never stop. Especially with the way the climate is now. I would love nothing more than to win my very first NBA Championship. But the unity of My People would be an even bigger Championship, that’s just too beautiful to pass up. What better time than now for us to be focusing on our families?
“This is a rare opportunity that, I believe, we as a community should be taking full advantage of. When have we ever had this amount of time to sit and be with our families? This is where our Unity starts. At home! With Family!! European Colonization stripped us of our rich history, and we have yet to sit down and figure us out. The less distractions, the more we can put into action into rediscovering ourselves. Nations come out of families. Black/African American is not a Nation or Nationality. It’s time Our Families became their own Nations. No Basketball till we get things resolved.” |
LINK |
There are a ton of false platitudes he's spouting and co-opting. |
NBA players are used to giving cliched answers to cliched questions.
Yeah, it's a grandiose, meaningless hyperbola.
If starting up the NBA is all it takes to significantly distract from the BLM movement, the movement doesn't have much of a chance.
And when he says "til we get things resolved," what does that mean? I don't know, and I doubt Dwight does either. |
I support him not playing. But I also hope that if this players' movemement gains momentum that better messengers come forward than Kyrie and Dwight. |
If the players union decides not to play as a protest, I'll respect that. But I do think they'd need more articulate spokespeople than Kyrie and Dwight. |
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kwase
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Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Let's be honest with ourselves....if this was last season we could care less about the season restarting. I have no problem with Dwight's decision because he's putting something more important than sports over himself and his pocketbook. That's activism. The media is going to bend over backwards to take the focus off the protests and police killings as soon as the NBA restarts. They're going to focus on what great lives these black athletes have and how blessed they are. It's the old bait and switch tactic that happens over and over again. |
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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What I want to know is... how does not playing do anything for the movement? How does keeping fans and the NBA hostage do anything? The NBA is not the policy makers of the country. Say the NBA shuts down today, and will never come back ever again in the name of BLM. Does that change anything? Are there diehard NBA fans who are policy makers, who will then try and past legislation to appease the NBA and BLM, just so basketball can come back? I don't think so. I don't think they care you don't play, I don't think they care that you'll be gone forever.
Kyrie supports flat earth. He is a contrarian by nature. If everyone sits out, this will backfire on him because he wants to be different. LOL! But seriously, while you're sitting out, are you mobilizing people to go protest, to march, to do what? What are there plans while sitting out that could be better than using their platform to be heard. Wouldn't entire rosters kneeling while the anthem is playing do more than nothing at home? |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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We've seen this both ways.
Unarmed black people are executed. Players including the best in the league (LBJ) wear t-shirts and make comments. And nothing changes.
Things are changing right now like they never have before. And there is pressure and motivation for more change.
The question is how much of the current change is due to not having sports (particularly the NBA) as a distraction? I think it's obvious COVID unemployment has also given people the time and emotion to say enough is enough. People were always mad about this stuff, but they HAD to go to work so they couldn't protest.
But I do think not having sports as a distraction is helping the movement as well.
What honestly bugs me is people arguing the movement isn't helped at all by there being no sports. Or that the movement would be helped if they come back.
If you miss ball. I get it. I do to. But don't work backwards from there to argue something that history has obviously shown isn't true.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22835
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | We've seen this both ways.
Unarmed black people are executed. Players including the best in the league (LBJ) wear t-shirts and make comments. And nothing changes.
Things are changing right now like they never have before. And there is pressure and motivation for more change.
The question is how much of the current change is due to not having sports (particularly the NBA) as a distraction? I think it's obvious COVID unemployment has also given people the time and emotion to say enough is enough. People were always mad about this stuff, but they HAD to go to work so they couldn't protest.
But I do think not having sports as a distraction is helping the movement as well.
What honestly bugs me is people arguing the movement isn't helped at all by there being no sports. Or that the movement would be helped if they come back.
If you miss ball. I get it. I do to. But don't work backwards from there to argue something that history has obviously shown isn't true. |
I miss ball, but at this point, I don't really care if they came back. I truly want to know the strategy of not coming back. And like I said, Kyrie is a contrarian who wasn't going to play regardless because of surger, he's in a nice position to look righteous. But okay, your point of not having it as a distraction. That's what I wanted to know, the reaons. And that is a reason you just gave me. So no basketball keeps people focused and angry. With basketball, the anger kinda subsides. Is that the idea? |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | The media is going to bend over backwards to take the focus off the protests and police killings as soon as the NBA restarts. They're going to focus on what great lives these black athletes have and how blessed they are. It's the old bait and switch tactic that happens over and over again. |
I always roll my eyes when people talk about "the media" as if it's one thing with one agenda rather than countless outlets across the political spectrum. |
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Runway8
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Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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One quote from Kyrie: “There’s only 20 guys actually getting paid, and I’m part of that. Let’s not pretend there’s not a tiered system purposely to divide all of us.”
This guy is trying to be deep and smart and he really isn't. With no max salaries, guys like Bron and Kobe would be the only ones getting PAID in the true sense of the word. Is Kyrie really willing to make the same amount as the last player on the bench? I'm just hearing a lot of gibberish from him right now. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: |
I miss ball, but at this point, I don't really care if they came back. I truly want to know the strategy of not coming back. And like I said, Kyrie is a contrarian who wasn't going to play regardless because of surger, he's in a nice position to look righteous. But okay, your point of not having it as a distraction. That's what I wanted to know, the reaons. And that is a reason you just gave me. So no basketball keeps people focused and angry. With basketball, the anger kinda subsides. Is that the idea? |
The idea is we've seen what happened with unarmed black people getting executed while ball is in session. We get some tweets, shirt wearing, and comments from star players. And nothing happens.
Which is far less than what we're seeing now.
I'm not giving ALL credit for the current movement to the absence of sports. But I do think it is a factor.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 16663
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Players should be ready for that scottie pippen contract if the season is canceled and cba torn up |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8143
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | We've seen this both ways.
Unarmed black people are executed. Players including the best in the league (LBJ) wear t-shirts and make comments. And nothing changes.
Things are changing right now like they never have before. And there is pressure and motivation for more change.
The question is how much of the current change is due to not having sports (particularly the NBA) as a distraction? I think it's obvious COVID unemployment has also given people the time and emotion to say enough is enough. People were always mad about this stuff, but they HAD to go to work so they couldn't protest.
But I do think not having sports as a distraction is helping the movement as well.
What honestly bugs me is people arguing the movement isn't helped at all by there being no sports. Or that the movement would be helped if they come back.
If you miss ball. I get it. I do to. But don't work backwards from there to argue something that history has obviously shown isn't true. |
So just sports re-starting that bothers you or will any person going back to work or busines starting back up be too much of a distraction to the movement in your opinion?
At some point society needs to attempt to get back to "normal". Whatever the new "normal" is going to be. Communities and businesses need to rebuild and people getting back to work to pay bills and energize a frozen economy.
Perpetual protesting and unemployment is not going to work long term. In some cases it might even backfire overall.
Honestly think the media platform that can be used as part of sports telecasts can keep the focus on the movement for social change. Every interview and commercial and visual for every game can and will be used.
Will it be the same level of passion as the daily protests, likely not. But the outcry we are seeing is not going to "go away" as post protests have. Change is happening and will continue to happen. Likely not to the extreme levels of some protesters demands but positive change none the less. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | So just sports re-starting that bothers you or will any person going back to work or busines starting back up be too much of a distraction to the movement in your opinion?
At some point society needs to attempt to get back to "normal". Whatever the new "normal" is going to be. Communities and businesses need to rebuild and people getting back to work to pay bills and energize a frozen economy.
Perpetual protesting and unemployment is not going to work long term. In some cases it might even backfire overall.
Honestly think the media platform that can be used as part of sports telecasts can keep the focus on the movement for social change. Every interview and commercial and visual for every game can and will be used.
Will it be the same level of passion as the daily protests, likely not. But the outcry we are seeing is not going to "go away" as post protests have. Change is happening and will continue to happen. Likely not to the extreme levels of some protesters demands but positive change none the less. |
I'm talking about the NBA specifically in this case.
In terms of everyday work. Or jobs that don't draw nearly as much attention as pro basketball. Of course people need to get back to work. The choice isn't waiting years for a vaccine unemployed vs. going back now. The choice is going back to work SAFELY WITH AN EFFECTIVE PLAN. Or just winging it without following the pandemic tools other countries have used to minimize infections and deaths. Most of the country, especially Florida has chosen option 2.
The COVID virus doesn't care about the economy. It doesn't care if people miss normalcy. Reopening should solely be based on safety.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | One quote from Kyrie: “There’s only 20 guys actually getting paid, and I’m part of that. Let’s not pretend there’s not a tiered system purposely to divide all of us.”
This guy is trying to be deep and smart and he really isn't. With no max salaries, guys like Bron and Kobe would be the only ones getting PAID in the true sense of the word. Is Kyrie really willing to make the same amount as the last player on the bench? I'm just hearing a lot of gibberish from him right now. |
Kyrie has no perspective.
The median salary in the US is $55,400. The media salary in the NBA is $3 million.
The lowest paid rookie in the NBA makes more in one year than the typical worker in the US makes in 15 years. |
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brock
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 2052
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | We've seen this both ways.
Unarmed black people are executed. Players including the best in the league (LBJ) wear t-shirts and make comments. And nothing changes.
Things are changing right now like they never have before. And there is pressure and motivation for more change.
The question is how much of the current change is due to not having sports (particularly the NBA) as a distraction? I think it's obvious COVID unemployment has also given people the time and emotion to say enough is enough. People were always mad about this stuff, but they HAD to go to work so they couldn't protest.
But I do think not having sports as a distraction is helping the movement as well.
What honestly bugs me is people arguing the movement isn't helped at all by there being no sports. Or that the movement would be helped if they come back.
If you miss ball. I get it. I do to. But don't work backwards from there to argue something that history has obviously shown isn't true. |
What lasting change are you seeing? I see the movement producing nothing but negative consequences for black people. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23776
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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On another note, Beverley is a (bleep). For someone who is allegedly a competitive junkyard dog, he seems to be afraid of big, bad Lebron. Shouldn’t he be the first one to want to play if he wants a chip so bad?
https://twitter.com/ralph_masonjr/status/1272273795923841024?s=21
Beverly is always the classless (bleep). Say what you want, but don’t bring LBJ or others into it.
Tbh it seems like he’s scared that the Lakers might actually beat his squad after all the barking he did. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| brock wrote: |
What lasting change are you seeing? I see the movement producing nothing but negative consequences for black people. |
There's been changes to policing and police officers reprimanded in several cities ( https://tinyurl.com/yd9cphmu ) . The charges for Chauvin started off as manslaughter/3rd degree murder. It's been moved up to 2nd degree. When the protests started the other officers weren't even charged and the people running the investigation said in a press conference to be patient. Then after a little over a week of protests they were arrested.
MJ has donated 100 mill I think.
The list is very long. But there is still alot left worth protesting for. For example, Breonna Taylor needs justice.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ocho wrote: | Dwight released a statement further clarifying his desire to cancel the season:
| Quote: | “I agree with Kyrie (Irving). Basketball, or entertainment period, isn’t needed at this moment, and will only be a distraction. Sure it might not distract us the players, but we have resources at hand majority of our community don’t have. And the smallest distraction for them, can start a trickle down effect that may never stop. Especially with the way the climate is now. I would love nothing more than to win my very first NBA Championship. But the unity of My People would be an even bigger Championship, that’s just too beautiful to pass up. What better time than now for us to be focusing on our families?
“This is a rare opportunity that, I believe, we as a community should be taking full advantage of. When have we ever had this amount of time to sit and be with our families? This is where our Unity starts. At home! With Family!! European Colonization stripped us of our rich history, and we have yet to sit down and figure us out. The less distractions, the more we can put into action into rediscovering ourselves. Nations come out of families. Black/African American is not a Nation or Nationality. It’s time Our Families became their own Nations. No Basketball till we get things resolved.” |
LINK |
There are a ton of false platitudes he's spouting and co-opting. |
That European colonization thing always triggers people..... |
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kwase
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 3069
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | The media is going to bend over backwards to take the focus off the protests and police killings as soon as the NBA restarts. They're going to focus on what great lives these black athletes have and how blessed they are. It's the old bait and switch tactic that happens over and over again. |
I always roll my eyes when people talk about "the media" as if it's one thing with one agenda rather than countless outlets across the political spectrum. |
Do your homework. The media is primarily owned by only 6 companies. They are also paid by private entities to sway public opinion. This is not only done in America but all over the world. The "boob tube" is nothing more than a propaganda machine used to dumb down society and keep people's minds off the real problems in the world. |
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