How do you feel about the season now?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:52 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Also in 6 weeks time the virus in America should, SHOULD, be a lot more controlled.

But I'm in Australia and we locked everything down early so we're pretty much coronavirus free (also nobody wants to travel to Backward Oztraylia so that helped also...)

But I think that in 6 weeks time things should be a lot better? And this is coming from someone who said everyone was understating how bad it was when it first came out, so I'm not a guy who's constantly been understating how bad the virus is.


I think we were on the right track just a few weeks ago.

The problem imo is the protests and some states rushing to open for economic reasons will most likely result in that huge 2nd wave.

Florida and Las Vegas are basically operating as if nothing happened. No social distancing, not really enforcing masks and basically just normal operations of clubs, casinos, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:27 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
kwase wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
kwase wrote:
I'm hoping for the best but I think it's a bad idea to restart now. Somebody gets sick and dies as a result and it won't be worth it. Plus the whole thing just feels gimmicky. But we'll soon see.

After hearing more about players who have reservations, I’m starting to think more like you. It feels like we could be compared to ancient Romans who were entertained by watching Christians be fed to the lions. If 1 person dies from apparent exposure to other players, imo, it will have been a big mistake to play into the political viewpoint that we need to return to normal, no matter what.



I honestly have a bad feeling about this.


I have to ask, are you expecting the world to be frozen in time and locked in a sealed room forever?

The same argument of "if one person dies..." can be attached to any profession or part of society. If one fast food worker dies ? If one Amazon driver dies? If one business owner? If one politician, celebrity or protester dies... is it worth it?

Or can we understand and accept the risks of a world wide health crisis. There are risks in everything we do, and will likey have some level of risk for months if not a year or more.

Are you suggesting the standard is now "if one person dies it is not worth it".

Sorry, can't agree with you. Life has to move on to be LIFE.


Umm, you do realize that this is different than a 'fast food death' in the sense that this is a contagious DISEASE where you could literally end up killing someone by being in the same room with them right? You sound like those guys that go on Fox news and tell the world that x amount of people down in pools per year.

Cancel the season and cancel next season as well if there is no vaccine yet. Besides, there would be a huge asterisk for whoever would win the title this year anyway.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:41 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
The same argument of "if one person dies..." can be attached to any profession or part of society. If one fast food worker dies ? If one Amazon driver dies? If one business owner? If one politician, celebrity or protester dies... is it worth it?


Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Maybe I missed something... why are you introducing "robots and killer food devices" to a conversation about a virus?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:44 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

Anyone going into public is at risk. and I agree that some gatherings of people have been reckless by nature. But lets be fair from a simple scientific basis of causation of the infection rate.

Few people have had much to say about the possibility of infection rates escalating due to thousands of protesters screaming for hours while spreading the mucus from getting tear gassed. Yet a restaraunt can't open or we have to remain 6ft apart because someone might get sick?


To the bolded. Yes. Yes we do. We're going through a pandemic. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:45 am    Post subject:

George badly wants the season to be canceled. Maybe to say he was right?

You can’t quarantine people for 2 years. At the same time, it would help if some of the population was more cautious instead of the YOLO attitude.

Bottom line is approximately 60% of the population is most likely to get the virus at some point over the next year. People sitting home for 2 years is not going to stop the virus. So be cautious when in public and hope the vaccine is close.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

Lets face it. The NBA players will be tested, isolated and protected and have less of a chance of getting the virus over that month then you or I do going to the supermarket.

Players can choose not to play. I'm not sure how many of us really have that option to "not go to work" because of the threat of infection or to "keep the cause" going. At some point , life goes on... hopefully with some social changes and awareness that we didn't have before.


To the bolded. Well life didn't go on for 117,000+ Americans so far. Will probably be over 200,000 by the end of the year. Someone should hire you to do memorial services.

"Listen, I know your dad died to this virus. But hey... life goes on amirite."
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:01 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

Anyone going into public is at risk. and I agree that some gatherings of people have been reckless by nature. But lets be fair from a simple scientific basis of causation of the infection rate.

Few people have had much to say about the possibility of infection rates escalating due to thousands of protesters screaming for hours while spreading the mucus from getting tear gassed. Yet a restaraunt can't open or we have to remain 6ft apart because someone might get sick?


To the bolded. Yes. Yes we do. We're going through a pandemic. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.


I understand you and I disagree but did you even read or comprehend the statements before you focused on the one you bolded?

Curious if you have been as strong with your criticisms for social distancing during the protests equally directed at the protesters , large gatherings or parties. Somehow I doubt it.

So it is tough to put the genie back into the bottle when criticizing getting as many people back to work as can safely be done. But with as many guidelines to minimize the infection rate as realistically possible. But sadly it is impossible to accomplish your “one death is too many” standard.

We disagree on the NBA and society re-starting. No arguing there are risks. But they also have the right to choose not to play in this one specific example.

Not sure the majority of society has that same luxury. Bills need to be paid, the ripple effect of that spending affects countless other jobs. Which causes that ripple effect to spread even further.

Life cannot he lived in a bubble for very long. Attempts to minimize risk are absolutely necessary and before you ask I have no idea of what is “acceptable” Each death is its own tragedy.

We all have to accept the epidemic has risks and can not be reduced to political rhetoric to be punted back and forth looking for votes and headlines. Sensible precautions are somewhere in the middle of the emotional rhetoric IMO
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:11 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

Anyone going into public is at risk. and I agree that some gatherings of people have been reckless by nature. But lets be fair from a simple scientific basis of causation of the infection rate.

Few people have had much to say about the possibility of infection rates escalating due to thousands of protesters screaming for hours while spreading the mucus from getting tear gassed. Yet a restaraunt can't open or we have to remain 6ft apart because someone might get sick?


To the bolded. Yes. Yes we do. We're going through a pandemic. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.


I understand you and I disagree but did you even read or comprehend the statements before you focused on the one you bolded?

Curious if you have been as strong with your criticisms for social distancing during the protests equally directed at the protesters , large gatherings or parties. Somehow I doubt it.

So it is tough to put the genie back into the bottle when criticizing getting as many people back to work as can safely be done. But with as many guidelines to minimize the infection rate as realistically possible. But sadly it is impossible to accomplish your “one death is too many” standard.

We disagree on the NBA and society re-starting. No arguing there are risks. But they also have the right to choose not to play in this one specific example.

Not sure the majority of society has that same luxury. Bills need to be paid, the ripple effect of that spending affects countless other jobs. Which causes that ripple effect to spread even further.

Life cannot he lived in a bubble for very long. Attempts to minimize risk are absolutely necessary and before you ask I have no idea of what is “acceptable” Each death is its own tragedy.

We all have to accept the epidemic has risks and can not be reduced to political rhetoric to be punted back and forth looking for votes and headlines. Sensible precautions are somewhere in the middle of the emotional rhetoric IMO

What you're saying is easy to say when the sick and dead aren't in your personal circle.
There are measures that other countries have used to effectively combat this pandemic. And our country still hasn't done those things. Florida is one of the worst offenders in the country too. Partly because of the attitude you have reflected in your posts. The virus doesn't care about the economy or how it inconveniences people. The virus isn't political in who it chooses to infect either.
I guess we just weigh 117,000+ deaths differently.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:09 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:

Cancel the season and cancel next season as well if there is no vaccine yet. Besides, there would be a huge asterisk for whoever would win the title this year anyway.


Right now, we are seeing people willing to increase their risk of getting the virus just to go sit in a restaurant and have a pizza. We are seeing people in their 60s willing to increase their risk to go cheer at a crowded political convention.

I have no doubt the NBA will find enough basketball players willing to take the risk to finish this season, and play next season.

Unless you are going to physically force people to stay isolated in their homes for years, you have to accept that people will make they own risk-reward calculations.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:02 pm    Post subject:

We're going to have over 500,000 deaths before this thing is over, because Americans just don't know how to follow directions. We all think we're PhD's in ever single course offered in college. I personally know people in 3rd world countries right now that are having problems eating and paying their rent. I was in Thailand when the pandemic broke out and saw many people standing in long lines to get free food. Yet, we're here debating on whether or not a game should be played. Sorry for venting, but it just hurts my heart to know that there are people out there really hurting, and I'm not even going to get into the 2 African Americans found hung over the weekend.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:11 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
We're going to have over 500,000 deaths before this thing is over, because Americans just don't know how to follow directions. We all think we're PhD's in ever single course offered in college. I personally know people in 3rd world countries right now that are having problems eating and paying their rent. I was in Thailand when the pandemic broke out and saw many people standing in long lines to get free food. Yet, we're here debating on whether or not a game should be played. Sorry for venting, but it just hurts my heart to know that there are people out there really hurting, and I'm not even going to get into the 2 African Americans found hung over the weekend.



I don't think the American public comprehend how serious this situation is. Its one thing to restart sports like golf or NASCAR where there is very little personal close quarters contact, but something like basketball where players are constantly in each other's personal space,this could easily spread the virus if a couple of people in the bubble bring in the virus. So this is why there is a very large potential for this restart to be a PR debacle for the NBA.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

Lets face it. The NBA players will be tested, isolated and protected and have less of a chance of getting the virus over that month then you or I do going to the supermarket.

Players can choose not to play. I'm not sure how many of us really have that option to "not go to work" because of the threat of infection or to "keep the cause" going. At some point , life goes on... hopefully with some social changes and awareness that we didn't have before.


To the bolded. Well life didn't go on for 117,000+ Americans so far. Will probably be over 200,000 by the end of the year. Someone should hire you to do memorial services.

"Listen, I know your dad died to this virus. But hey... life goes on amirite."


For the sake of argument, would you be okay with a 10 mph speed limit to reduce car accidents? Well over 300K people die from car accidents every year and reducing the speed limit to non-fatal levels would exponentially decrease the number of automobile accident related deaths (we'd probably be looking at close to zero at those speeds). That's not even including the number of people who will sustain life long injuries, paralysis, lost of limbs so on and so forth which would be a multiplier of that 300K.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
We're going to have over 500,000 deaths before this thing is over, because Americans just don't know how to follow directions. We all think we're PhD's in ever single course offered in college. I personally know people in 3rd world countries right now that are having problems eating and paying their rent. I was in Thailand when the pandemic broke out and saw many people standing in long lines to get free food.


We're a rich country filled with self-entitled people. We've always had the luxury of focusing on the trivial while people elsewhere suffer. It's not fair, but that's the way it's been for my entire life and long before my life.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

Lets face it. The NBA players will be tested, isolated and protected and have less of a chance of getting the virus over that month then you or I do going to the supermarket.

Players can choose not to play. I'm not sure how many of us really have that option to "not go to work" because of the threat of infection or to "keep the cause" going. At some point , life goes on... hopefully with some social changes and awareness that we didn't have before.


To the bolded. Well life didn't go on for 117,000+ Americans so far. Will probably be over 200,000 by the end of the year. Someone should hire you to do memorial services.

"Listen, I know your dad died to this virus. But hey... life goes on amirite."


For the sake of argument, would you be okay with a 10 mph speed limit to reduce car accidents? Well over 300K people die from car accidents every year and reducing the speed limit to non-fatal levels would exponentially decrease the number of automobile accident related deaths (we'd probably be looking at close to zero at those speeds). That's not even including the number of people who will sustain life long injuries, paralysis, lost of limbs so on and so forth which would be a multiplier of that 300K.



Pretty ridiculous comparison don’t you think? Basketball isn’t essential. Getting from point A to point B in a reasonable time frame is for truck drivers/EMTs/anyone else going to work that’s living paycheck to paycheck. These basketball players are all multimillionaires who could retire if they wanted to.


Besides I have no faith that these players would be OK with being stuck in a hotel with no family/friends around. They may say it but it would only be a matter of time before one of them gets busted going to a club/party/etc...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:32 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:

Besides I have no faith that these players would be OK with being stuck in a hotel with no family/friends around. They may say it but it would only be a matter of time before one of them gets busted going to a club/party/etc...


I think you don't appreciate the kind of setup the bubble will be.

There will be strict security checking people in and out. Cameras everywhere. They will lock down the place so people who might have the virus can't sneak in.

That doesn't mean the players will be prisoners. But if they leave, they won't be able to return until after they've been in quarantine for two weeks.

The notion that a player is going to sneak out to go to a bar or party, and not be noticed by anyone, and then sneak back in is kind of silly. This isn't going to be a summer camp movie where the boys sneak over to the girl's camp on the other side of the lake.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject:

They are still negotiating with the NBAPA lead referring to having security guards as being incarcerated. I don’t think that the players go for that. And the original plan was a 10-day quarantine with a recent report of 7 days. I don’t think that the players are aware of keeping them in the bubble, in an interview last week McGee seemed shocked when he was asked about it and also likened it to prison.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:11 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
They are still negotiating with the NBAPA lead referring to having security guards as being incarcerated. I don’t think that the players go for that. And the original plan was a 10-day quarantine with a recent report of 7 days. I don’t think that the players are aware of keeping them in the bubble, in an interview last week McGee seemed shocked when he was asked about it and also likened it to prison.

venturalakersfan wrote:
They are still negotiating with the NBAPA lead referring to having security guards as being incarcerated. I don’t think that the players go for that. And the original plan was a 10-day quarantine with a recent report of 7 days. I don’t think that the players are aware of keeping them in the bubble, in an interview last week McGee seemed shocked when he was asked about it and also likened it to prison.
Just like people who chose to ignore the pandemic and live their lives, the NBA is full of grown men (Rudy Gobert) who aren't afraid and won't want to be controlled. Tell a young man with a strong physical drive, he absolutely will have no sexual contact with the woman/women of his choice for 2+ months, and watch and see how many of them start screaming "this is prison." An idea can only work if all cooperate, and I don't have a lot of (any) faith that individuals will all have the same commitment to cooperate.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:57 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:

Lets face it. The NBA players will be tested, isolated and protected and have less of a chance of getting the virus over that month then you or I do going to the supermarket.

Players can choose not to play. I'm not sure how many of us really have that option to "not go to work" because of the threat of infection or to "keep the cause" going. At some point , life goes on... hopefully with some social changes and awareness that we didn't have before.


To the bolded. Well life didn't go on for 117,000+ Americans so far. Will probably be over 200,000 by the end of the year. Someone should hire you to do memorial services.

"Listen, I know your dad died to this virus. But hey... life goes on amirite."


For the sake of argument, would you be okay with a 10 mph speed limit to reduce car accidents? Well over 300K people die from car accidents every year and reducing the speed limit to non-fatal levels would exponentially decrease the number of automobile accident related deaths (we'd probably be looking at close to zero at those speeds). That's not even including the number of people who will sustain life long injuries, paralysis, lost of limbs so on and so forth which would be a multiplier of that 300K.



Pretty ridiculous comparison don’t you think? Basketball isn’t essential. Getting from point A to point B in a reasonable time frame is for truck drivers/EMTs/anyone else going to work that’s living paycheck to paycheck. These basketball players are all multimillionaires who could retire if they wanted to.


Besides I have no faith that these players would be OK with being stuck in a hotel with no family/friends around. They may say it but it would only be a matter of time before one of them gets busted going to a club/party/etc...


I'm talking the shutdown in general not in specific to the restart.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
They are still negotiating with the NBAPA lead referring to having security guards as being incarcerated. I don’t think that the players go for that. And the original plan was a 10-day quarantine with a recent report of 7 days. I don’t think that the players are aware of keeping them in the bubble, in an interview last week McGee seemed shocked when he was asked about it and also likened it to prison.


Hard to imagine they wont have security guards and check points. If they just let any random person wander into the hotels, they won't have a bubble anymore.

But they could decide to let everyone come and go as they like, which would dramatically increase the likelihood of an infection spreading across the league and closing down everything. My feeling: whatever. It's their lives. Just glad I won't be there.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:33 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:

For the sake of argument, would you be okay with a 10 mph speed limit to reduce car accidents? Well over 300K people die from car accidents every year and reducing the speed limit to non-fatal levels would exponentially decrease the number of automobile accident related deaths (we'd probably be looking at close to zero at those speeds). That's not even including the number of people who will sustain life long injuries, paralysis, lost of limbs so on and so forth which would be a multiplier of that 300K.


Probably not. Just because I'm not sure of its effectiveness. If the speed limit is that slow, I doubt anybody would follow it.

BUT, there are some changes I would embrace to lower car accidents. Changes that other countries with less car accidents embrace. For example, the age minimum to drive alone in Germany is 18. People often spend a whole year driving with supervision before even applying. And even though the drinking age is younger there than here. They don't have the same level of vehicular accidents.

Just in general, ALOT of changes have been made for driving to minimize death throughout history. I mean stoplights used to only have red and green. The laws for driving around stopped school buses. Heck even speed limits have changed.

Going back to COVID. The argument isn't stay unemployed forever vs go back to work now. That is a false narrative constructed by people who don't see human life as the biggest priority. The choice is return to work safely by embracing strategies we've seen be effective in other countries. Or, just keep winging it and let the body bags pile up. We are living through option 2. And that devastation is undeniable.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:

Going back to COVID. The argument isn't stay unemployed forever vs go back to work now. That is a false narrative constructed by people who don't see human life as the biggest priority. The choice is return to work safely by embracing strategies we've seen be effective in other countries. Or, just keep winging it and let the body bags pile up. We are living through option 2. And that devastation is undeniable.


The problem is we have a president who denies the problem exists, and authority is divided among different federal, state and local officials, so it's virtually impossible for us to have a unified response.

The countries that have done well so far tend to be smaller; often isolated (such as islands); socialized medicine; have strong, respected leaders; and have cultures where people ban together better than we do.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:56 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
They are still negotiating with the NBAPA lead referring to having security guards as being incarcerated. I don’t think that the players go for that. And the original plan was a 10-day quarantine with a recent report of 7 days. I don’t think that the players are aware of keeping them in the bubble, in an interview last week McGee seemed shocked when he was asked about it and also likened it to prison.


Hard to imagine they wont have security guards and check points. If they just let any random person wander into the hotels, they won't have a bubble anymore.

But they could decide to let everyone come and go as they like, which would dramatically increase the likelihood of an infection spreading across the league and closing down everything. My feeling: whatever. It's their lives. Just glad I won't be there.


I’m with you on that
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:25 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
kikanga wrote:

Going back to COVID. The argument isn't stay unemployed forever vs go back to work now. That is a false narrative constructed by people who don't see human life as the biggest priority. The choice is return to work safely by embracing strategies we've seen be effective in other countries. Or, just keep winging it and let the body bags pile up. We are living through option 2. And that devastation is undeniable.


The problem is we have a president who denies the problem exists, and authority is divided among different federal, state and local officials, so it's virtually impossible for us to have a unified response.

The countries that have done well so far tend to be smaller; often isolated (such as islands); socialized medicine; have strong, respected leaders; and have cultures where people ban together better than we do.

Very true.
If we had an executive and legislative branch willing to address these unprecedented times with unprecedented measures, we'd be better off. AND, on top of that, if we had a culture that had faith in our institutions and trust in the federal government to address the problem appropriately. We'd be even better off.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:

For the sake of argument, would you be okay with a 10 mph speed limit to reduce car accidents? Well over 300K people die from car accidents every year and reducing the speed limit to non-fatal levels would exponentially decrease the number of automobile accident related deaths (we'd probably be looking at close to zero at those speeds). That's not even including the number of people who will sustain life long injuries, paralysis, lost of limbs so on and so forth which would be a multiplier of that 300K.


Probably not. Just because I'm not sure of its effectiveness. If the speed limit is that slow, I doubt anybody would follow it.

BUT, there are some changes I would embrace to lower car accidents. Changes that other countries with less car accidents embrace. For example, the age minimum to drive alone in Germany is 18. People often spend a whole year driving with supervision before even applying. And even though the drinking age is younger there than here. They don't have the same level of vehicular accidents.

Just in general, ALOT of changes have been made for driving to minimize death throughout history. I mean stoplights used to only have red and green. The laws for driving around stopped school buses. Heck even speed limits have changed.

Going back to COVID. The argument isn't stay unemployed forever vs go back to work now. That is a false narrative constructed by people who don't see human life as the biggest priority. The choice is return to work safely by embracing strategies we've seen be effective in other countries. Or, just keep winging it and let the body bags pile up. We are living through option 2. And that devastation is undeniable.


All fair points brother.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Reading the most recent Orlando reports, the league isn’t going to stop players from leaving the bubble.
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