How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gone if Bynum had never gotten injured and we had never traded for Pau?
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How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gotten with a healthy Bynum but no Pau?
Championship
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
Lost in finals
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
Lost in WCF
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Lost in semis
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
Lost in first round
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Missed playoffs
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 19

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Crazy thing was the Pau trade only happened due to Bynum's injury and Mitch initially interested in trading for Mike Miller instead, so talk about a move that saved Mitch for almost a decade. Pau would probably get traded to the Bulls since that was the initial trade destination for Pau before the Lakers and the Hornets or the Spurs most likely get the number 1 seed instead and Lakers end up as a 3rd to 6th seed in the West. Also, it's likely Chris Paul wins MVP instead.

First round without Pau would end up facing the Mavericks, Suns, or Rockets, which would be a dog fight. In the 2nd round, Lakers went to 6 games against the Jazz that year, which was the same Jazz team that went to the Conference Finals in 2007, so can see the Jazz actually beating the Lakers or Lakers winning due to just Kobe going extra crazy. In the conference finals, Lakers wouldn't have homecourt against the Hornets or Spurs, who both would be favored against the Lakers and can see the team losing to either the Hornets or Spurs. If Lakers somehow win that series, they most likely get swept or lose in 5 to the Celtics decisively. The run would be similar to those LeBron playoff runs heading into the finals with the Cav's, but losing to those highly favored Warriors squads. Also, Mitch probably makes a panic type of trade and trades Odom to try to compete against the Celtics big 3 somehow.



Imagine if we'd traded Odom for Mike Miller like Mitch wanted. Our starting lineup would have been:

Fisher
Kobe
Mike Miller
Turiaf
Kwame Brown

Bench:

Farmar
Sasha
Walton
Radmanovic
DJ Mbenga

That team would have gotten destroyed in the first round.

In this scenario you would have healthy Bynum who brokeout that season. Kobe, Bynum, Miller, & Fisher would be enough to get past the first round imo, as Kobe was MVP that year and really took his game to the next level mentally & as a leader. Would take this version of the Lakers with Mike Miller added over Dirk pre-1st ring with the Mavericks & those T-Mac/Yao Rockets, but the Suns would be a really tough match-up since they would have nobody that can guard Amare & Nash. Kobe was next level that year, the game 1 vs the Spurs in the 2008 WCF might have been his most brilliant.


The Odom for Mike Miller trade was proposed after the Bynum injury-- not really sure what Mitch's rationale was. Chris Wallace then offered Pau for Kwame et. al instead-- it was his idea, not Mitch's.

Earlier in the season, I remember people on this forum proposing a Bynum and Odom for Jermaine O'Neal trade. Or trying to trade Odom for Rasheed Wallace.


I somehow forgot about this. Jaysis, were it not for the Pau trade, history would not look kindly on Mitch's tenure here. That was a horrible trade. Wth was he thinking?!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:32 pm    Post subject:

CabinCreek44 wrote:
Thanks for posting that npz, I was at that game. A playoff type atmosphere that evening to be sure.

I recall massive media buzz for Chris Paul as the MVP that season which would have been absurd. He’s a great player but come on. Kobe was easily the best player in the league at that point and Paul has always been just good enough to lose with imo.

Kobe showed everybody what was what that night.


Damn, that's a helluva game to go to personally. Your boys Joel and Stu seemed to even get along that night. The infrequently seen LG poster Birmingham went to both Kobe's 61 pt gm at MSG and his final game ever and that paisano CMB went to effin Gm7 2000. NPZ and CMB were both in the crib on 11/7/97, come to find out. That was the game Van Exel launched the ball at midcourt and Shaq donked it with one hand, sh looked like it was sailing over the glass.

The bastidges blocked it already. They own the footage, so that gives them the GALL to claim it's theirs. Some 08 stuff they block instantly, other stuff says for years. Pau's first game for ex. That's a no-go. This one I shoulda known because of the Kobe relevance, but I did it for Superboy anyway and he got to it in the nick.

I don't remember the Hornets vying for the top seed ever. I remembered CP, but not that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Crazy thing was the Pau trade only happened due to Bynum's injury and Mitch initially interested in trading for Mike Miller instead, so talk about a move that saved Mitch for almost a decade. Pau would probably get traded to the Bulls since that was the initial trade destination for Pau before the Lakers and the Hornets or the Spurs most likely get the number 1 seed instead and Lakers end up as a 3rd to 6th seed in the West. Also, it's likely Chris Paul wins MVP instead.

First round without Pau would end up facing the Mavericks, Suns, or Rockets, which would be a dog fight. In the 2nd round, Lakers went to 6 games against the Jazz that year, which was the same Jazz team that went to the Conference Finals in 2007, so can see the Jazz actually beating the Lakers or Lakers winning due to just Kobe going extra crazy. In the conference finals, Lakers wouldn't have homecourt against the Hornets or Spurs, who both would be favored against the Lakers and can see the team losing to either the Hornets or Spurs. If Lakers somehow win that series, they most likely get swept or lose in 5 to the Celtics decisively. The run would be similar to those LeBron playoff runs heading into the finals with the Cav's, but losing to those highly favored Warriors squads. Also, Mitch probably makes a panic type of trade and trades Odom to try to compete against the Celtics big 3 somehow.



Imagine if we'd traded Odom for Mike Miller like Mitch wanted. Our starting lineup would have been:

Fisher
Kobe
Mike Miller
Turiaf
Kwame Brown

Bench:

Farmar
Sasha
Walton
Radmanovic
DJ Mbenga

That team would have gotten destroyed in the first round.

In this scenario you would have healthy Bynum who brokeout that season. Kobe, Bynum, Miller, & Fisher would be enough to get past the first round imo, as Kobe was MVP that year and really took his game to the next level mentally & as a leader. Would take this version of the Lakers with Mike Miller added over Dirk pre-1st ring with the Mavericks & those T-Mac/Yao Rockets, but the Suns would be a really tough match-up since they would have nobody that can guard Amare & Nash. Kobe was next level that year, the game 1 vs the Spurs in the 2008 WCF might have been his most brilliant.


The Odom for Mike Miller trade was proposed after the Bynum injury-- not really sure what Mitch's rationale was. Chris Wallace then offered Pau for Kwame et. al instead-- it was his idea, not Mitch's.

Earlier in the season, I remember people on this forum proposing a Bynum and Odom for Jermaine O'Neal trade. Or trying to trade Odom for Rasheed Wallace.


I somehow forgot about this. Jaysis, were it not for the Pau trade, history would not look kindly on Mitch's tenure here. That was a horrible trade. Wth was he thinking?!


My theory is that Mitch's last few years here are a better indicator of what kind of GM he was than the championship years. The moves that he is celebrated for-- Pau and Payton/Malone-- were complete no-brainers and had nothing to do with him.

Others (such as signing Artest over Ariza) and trading for Dwight turned out to be bad moves.

His best move (meaning one that can be attributed to him directly and not the other party, and one that wasn't also obvious) was trading Cook/Evans for Ariza.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject:

How good do you guys think Bynum would have been if he didn’t have injury issues?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
CabinCreek44 wrote:
Thanks for posting that npz, I was at that game. A playoff type atmosphere that evening to be sure.

I recall massive media buzz for Chris Paul as the MVP that season which would have been absurd. He’s a great player but come on. Kobe was easily the best player in the league at that point and Paul has always been just good enough to lose with imo.

Kobe showed everybody what was what that night.


Damn, that's a helluva game to go to personally. Your boys Joel and Stu seemed to even get along that night. The infrequently seen LG poster Birmingham went to both Kobe's 61 pt gm at MSG and his final game ever and that paisano CMB went to effin Gm7 2000. NPZ and CMB were both in the crib on 11/7/97, come to find out. That was the game Van Exel launched the ball at midcourt and Shaq donked it with one hand, sh looked like it was sailing over the glass.

The bastidges blocked it already. They own the footage, so that gives them the GALL to claim it's theirs. Some 08 stuff they block instantly, other stuff says for years. Pau's first game for ex. That's a no-go. This one I shoulda known because of the Kobe relevance, but I did it for Superboy anyway and he got to it in the nick.

I don't remember the Hornets vying for the top seed ever. I remembered CP, but not that.


You guys talking about this game?

What a great game. sealed KB's mvp, imo. We ran them out the building before they came back, which was not an infrequent problem from 08-10, as anyone who experienced the pain of that one Game 4 will testify.

that Hornets team was awesome. We still beat them if they get past the Spurs, I think, but it probably goes 6, maybe 7. They get skipped over due to their playoff collapse and later failiures (iirc, they'd lose next year to Denver in round 1, including by near 60 in one game). but for that 1 year, they almost had "it".
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:11 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
How good do you guys think Bynum would have been if he didn’t have injury issues?


Then you are talking about the athletic version 2007-2008 combined with the post talent of 2011-2012. That my friends is a very very high ceiling....like MVP ceiling. Its something we never got to see. That Bynum blows someone like Pau out of the water and makes Pau look like a scrub. Amare putting up numbers during that time.....Bynum would make him look like a scrub. Not even peak Dwight would have touched him. You guys remember what Bynum did to guys like Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Amare? And this was when he was either heavily compromised in his athletic potential or was still a young baby. What Bynum could have been should be the biggest what if for Lakers Nation because the only 2 people I have seen wear a Lakers uniform in the past 25 years that could surpass Bynum's potential are Shaq and Kobe. Ok 3 if u include Bron. AD....no. Bynum would eat up AD for lunch down low and spit him out.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject:

x75274 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
How good do you guys think Bynum would have been if he didn’t have injury issues?


Then you are talking about the athletic version 2007-2008 combined with the post talent of 2011-2012. That my friends is a very very high ceiling....like MVP ceiling. Its something we never got to see. That Bynum blows someone like Pau out of the water and makes Pau look like a scrub. Amare putting up numbers during that time.....Bynum would make him look like a scrub. Not even peak Dwight would have touched him. You guys remember what Bynum did to guys like Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Amare? And this was when he was either heavily compromised in his athletic potential or was still a young baby. What Bynum could have been should be the biggest what if for Lakers Nation because the only 2 people I have seen wear a Lakers uniform in the past 25 years that could surpass Bynum's potential are Shaq and Kobe. Ok 3 if u include Bron. AD....no. Bynum would eat up AD for lunch down low and spit him out.


He would still be our franchise player to this day. He’s only 32 and would still be in his prime.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
CabinCreek44 wrote:
Thanks for posting that npz, I was at that game. A playoff type atmosphere that evening to be sure.

I recall massive media buzz for Chris Paul as the MVP that season which would have been absurd. He’s a great player but come on. Kobe was easily the best player in the league at that point and Paul has always been just good enough to lose with imo.

Kobe showed everybody what was what that night.


Damn, that's a helluva game to go to personally. Your boys Joel and Stu seemed to even get along that night. The infrequently seen LG poster Birmingham went to both Kobe's 61 pt gm at MSG and his final game ever and that paisano CMB went to effin Gm7 2000. NPZ and CMB were both in the crib on 11/7/97, come to find out. That was the game Van Exel launched the ball at midcourt and Shaq donked it with one hand, sh looked like it was sailing over the glass.

The bastidges blocked it already. They own the footage, so that gives them the GALL to claim it's theirs. Some 08 stuff they block instantly, other stuff says for years. Pau's first game for ex. That's a no-go. This one I shoulda known because of the Kobe relevance, but I did it for Superboy anyway and he got to it in the nick.

I don't remember the Hornets vying for the top seed ever. I remembered CP, but not that.


You guys talking about this game?

What a great game. sealed KB's mvp, imo. We ran them out the building before they came back, which was not an infrequent problem from 08-10, as anyone who experienced the pain of that one Game 4 will testify.

that Hornets team was awesome. We still beat them if they get past the Spurs, I think, but it probably goes 6, maybe 7. They get skipped over due to their playoff collapse and later failiures (iirc, they'd lose next year to Denver in round 1, including by near 60 in one game). but for that 1 year, they almost had "it".


I remember a poster on here speculating that Javaris Crittenton could develop into a bigger, more explosive version of Chris Paul during that season.

I thought Chris Paul would continue to improve and end up as the #2 PG of all time behind Magic. But he ended up more or less peaking during that season due to a later knee injury.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:07 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
CabinCreek44 wrote:
Thanks for posting that npz, I was at that game. A playoff type atmosphere that evening to be sure.

I recall massive media buzz for Chris Paul as the MVP that season which would have been absurd. He’s a great player but come on. Kobe was easily the best player in the league at that point and Paul has always been just good enough to lose with imo.

Kobe showed everybody what was what that night.


Damn, that's a helluva game to go to personally. Your boys Joel and Stu seemed to even get along that night. The infrequently seen LG poster Birmingham went to both Kobe's 61 pt gm at MSG and his final game ever and that paisano CMB went to effin Gm7 2000. NPZ and CMB were both in the crib on 11/7/97, come to find out. That was the game Van Exel launched the ball at midcourt and Shaq donked it with one hand, sh looked like it was sailing over the glass.

The bastidges blocked it already. They own the footage, so that gives them the GALL to claim it's theirs. Some 08 stuff they block instantly, other stuff says for years. Pau's first game for ex. That's a no-go. This one I shoulda known because of the Kobe relevance, but I did it for Superboy anyway and he got to it in the nick.

I don't remember the Hornets vying for the top seed ever. I remembered CP, but not that.


You guys talking about this game?

What a great game. sealed KB's mvp, imo. We ran them out the building before they came back, which was not an infrequent problem from 08-10, as anyone who experienced the pain of that one Game 4 will testify.

that Hornets team was awesome. We still beat them if they get past the Spurs, I think, but it probably goes 6, maybe 7. They get skipped over due to their playoff collapse and later failiures (iirc, they'd lose next year to Denver in round 1, including by near 60 in one game). but for that 1 year, they almost had "it".


I remember a poster on here speculating that Javaris Crittenton could develop into a bigger, more explosive version of Chris Paul during that season.

I thought Chris Paul would continue to improve and end up as the #2 PG of all time behind Magic. But he ended up more or less peaking during that season due to a later knee injury.


Javaris was a raw talent who with the right tutelage could have been special. But he had a ton of flaws....starting with that jumper of his. His shot trajectory and form on his jumper (that elbow jutting outwards) was just bad....that thing would have needed to be completely overhauled. Then he would have needed a few years to be able to really play the point. What could he have been had he been able to put everything together? Maybe a B version of the 1995 NBA first teamer Anfernee Hardaway or B version of 2011 MVP Derrick Rose. This would equate to borderline all star quality
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject:

Easy championship!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:24 pm    Post subject:

x75274 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
CabinCreek44 wrote:
Thanks for posting that npz, I was at that game. A playoff type atmosphere that evening to be sure.

I recall massive media buzz for Chris Paul as the MVP that season which would have been absurd. He’s a great player but come on. Kobe was easily the best player in the league at that point and Paul has always been just good enough to lose with imo.

Kobe showed everybody what was what that night.


Damn, that's a helluva game to go to personally. Your boys Joel and Stu seemed to even get along that night. The infrequently seen LG poster Birmingham went to both Kobe's 61 pt gm at MSG and his final game ever and that paisano CMB went to effin Gm7 2000. NPZ and CMB were both in the crib on 11/7/97, come to find out. That was the game Van Exel launched the ball at midcourt and Shaq donked it with one hand, sh looked like it was sailing over the glass.

The bastidges blocked it already. They own the footage, so that gives them the GALL to claim it's theirs. Some 08 stuff they block instantly, other stuff says for years. Pau's first game for ex. That's a no-go. This one I shoulda known because of the Kobe relevance, but I did it for Superboy anyway and he got to it in the nick.

I don't remember the Hornets vying for the top seed ever. I remembered CP, but not that.


You guys talking about this game?

What a great game. sealed KB's mvp, imo. We ran them out the building before they came back, which was not an infrequent problem from 08-10, as anyone who experienced the pain of that one Game 4 will testify.

that Hornets team was awesome. We still beat them if they get past the Spurs, I think, but it probably goes 6, maybe 7. They get skipped over due to their playoff collapse and later failiures (iirc, they'd lose next year to Denver in round 1, including by near 60 in one game). but for that 1 year, they almost had "it".


I remember a poster on here speculating that Javaris Crittenton could develop into a bigger, more explosive version of Chris Paul during that season.

I thought Chris Paul would continue to improve and end up as the #2 PG of all time behind Magic. But he ended up more or less peaking during that season due to a later knee injury.


Javaris was a raw talent who with the right tutelage could have been special. But he had a ton of flaws....starting with that jumper of his. His shot trajectory and form on his jumper (that elbow jutting outwards) was just bad....that thing would have needed to be completely overhauled. Then he would have needed a few years to be able to really play the point. What could he have been had he been able to put everything together? Maybe a B version of the 1995 NBA first teamer Anfernee Hardaway or B version of 2011 MVP Derrick Rose. This would equate to borderline all star quality


His best trait was his killer instinct.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gone if Bynum had never gotten injured and we had never traded for Pau?

venturalakersfan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Runway8 wrote:

If that injury was the only reason we traded for Pau, then it was a blessing in disguise. As we found out later in his career, he didn't have the greatest passion for the game. I think he rather build computers or something? LOL! Putting all our eggs in the Bynum basket would have been a big mistake.


It wasn’t the only reason. Kobe and Dr. Buss met Pau in Barcelona in the summer of 2007. Pau made his trade demand in 2006. It seemed like tampering to me. It might be why Logo left Memphis.


The Lakers never asked for Pau, he wasn’t Mitch’s target.


As I recall, the Lakers had inquired about Pau in 2006, but the talks stalled. The reports initially said that Dr. Buss reached back out to Heisley in 2007 and basically they closed the deal without their respective GMs. I'm not sure if their talking started pre or post Bynum injury, but it was basically an owner-to-owner transaction.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject:

The idea that the Lakers wouldn't have made a run at Pau if Bynum hadn't gotten injured is silly. If you can add a star of that magnitude for what it cost, you do that every time.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Back to the original topic. With the 07-08 Bynum and no Pau, I really believe we would have lost at the same exact place we ended up losing but the battles would have been a lot tougher. We dont destroy the Nuggets as easily as we did in the first round and probably end the Jazz in 7 if not get outright upset by them in 7. Pau's seemingly annual domination of Boozer is key here especially when the Jazz were at their strongest which was this year. Ironically I see Bynum and no Pau being the easiest matchup in the WCF against the Spurs. Bynum usually always plays well against his idol Duncan and nobody on the Spurs ever matched up well with Bynum at all (that 30 rebound game is a microcosm of.the lack of size the Spurs had against Bynum). They would have needed someone with the strength, length and intelligence of Big Dave to be able to contain the young very early 20s Bynum. Celtics though would be a whole different animal. The young Bynum even as the featured big man, would have struggled with that Celtics team. We saw glimpses of it when the Celtics easily beat us in both regular season games and Perkins was handling that version of Bynum. Bynum would have suffered the same problem Pau did in that finals as while he is physically more gifted and stronger than Pau, he would be even less mentally ready for that finals than Pau was.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:32 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
The idea that the Lakers wouldn't have made a run at Pau if Bynum hadn't gotten injured is silly. If you can add a star of that magnitude for what it cost, you do that every time.

Agreed. I was disappointed when reports came out that if Bynum had been healthy, the Lakers might not have made a move for Pau. I couldn’t find anything other than this piece:

Quote:

Had Bynum never been injured, the Lakers might not have felt the need to make the trade. Gasol gave the Lakers a much-needed second option behind Kobe Bryant and lifted them into championship contention.

I don’t know if we would have gotten here,” Kupchak said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/sports/basketball/08nba.html


I remember reading other articles of the time that affirmed this thought. If this is what is being implied, then it does make me think less of Mitch as a GM (even pre-Deng/Mozgov)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:30 pm    Post subject:

x75274 wrote:
Back to the original topic. With the 07-08 Bynum and no Pau, I really believe we would have lost at the same exact place we ended up losing but the battles would have been a lot tougher. We dont destroy the Nuggets as easily as we did in the first round and probably end the Jazz in 7 if not get outright upset by them in 7. Pau's seemingly annual domination of Boozer is key here especially when the Jazz were at their strongest which was this year. Ironically I see Bynum and no Pau being the easiest matchup in the WCF against the Spurs. Bynum usually always plays well against his idol Duncan and nobody on the Spurs ever matched up well with Bynum at all (that 30 rebound game is a microcosm of.the lack of size the Spurs had against Bynum). They would have needed someone with the strength, length and intelligence of Big Dave to be able to contain the young very early 20s Bynum. Celtics though would be a whole different animal. The young Bynum even as the featured big man, would have struggled with that Celtics team. We saw glimpses of it when the Celtics easily beat us in both regular season games and Perkins was handling that version of Bynum. Bynum would have suffered the same problem Pau did in that finals as while he is physically more gifted and stronger than Pau, he would be even less mentally ready for that finals than Pau was.


Why wasn’t a top 10 player all time in Duncan able to stop Bynum, a relative nobody? Duncan was really a center too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:10 am    Post subject:

I don't think there's any way Mitch would have passed on the Gasol trade even without the Bynum injury. Mitch was a very cautious GM, with the exception of free agency (where he tended to overpay). He generally wanted deals slanted in his favor, but that trade was a no brainer. What was it Crittenton, M. Gasol (still in Europe, not that highly touted), Aaron McKie's corpse and two picks for an All-Star. There's no way they pass up on it.

Bynum going down and the team struggling after he went down, after Kobe had demanded a trade the previous Summer, they really had to make a move after Bynum got hurt. So that got them actively looking, where maybe they wouldn't have been before, they did after all start that season 26-12. But I think even at that point you are getting an All-Star for three guys who barely played. You can't pass on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:34 am    Post subject:

Wow, first I have heard that Mitch was offering Odom for Miller. I would be shocked if Phil would even be on board with that, even though Miller at the time was an excellent outside shooter, the Lakers needed a player that could defend, board and do some of the things Odom was as they lacked a true point guard. Mike would not fill in many of those roles. It would have been a huge blunder had that deal gone through. Never heard of it at the time, my memory serves me recalling Mitch showing interest in Miller, not for Odom, just to add more talent. Then Wallace telling Mitch Pau was available.

I would have guessed that Miller was asked in return for space cadet. If you all remember who space cadet was.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:17 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
How good do you guys think Bynum would have been if he didn’t have injury issues?


Best big man in the league for the last 10 years, easily.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:29 am    Post subject:

It would have depended on Bynum's head. Did Bynum check out because of all the injuries or was he never going to be all in as an NBA player? Pau's skillset was off the charts the one caveat was he was a finesse player so having Bynum there to absorb the pounding during the season helped both Pau & Lamar. The Lakers best lineup was Pau at center and Odom at PF but this had to be minimized so both players were in good health at the end of the season. That was noted between the year they lost to the Celtics (when Bynum missed most of the season) and the win over Orlando (when Bynum played most of the season). Lamar was beat up by the time they got to the finals and Pau wasn't ready for the physicality of the Celtics.

Simple answer is not as far as they went with Pau.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:39 am    Post subject:

Of course you make that Gasol trade but it would have been interesting to see how things would have played out with Marc Gasol on the team. Marc came into the league a year later and made a significant impact immediately.

But even getting 1 ring would have been very difficult.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:16 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Of course you make that Gasol trade but it would have been interesting to see how things would have played out with Marc Gasol on the team. Marc came into the league a year later and made a significant impact immediately.

But even getting 1 ring would have been very difficult.


Or what if we had traded the Grizzlies an additional first round pick instead of Marc Gasol and dealt Bynum for a point guard or small forward after he got injured?

A trio of Marc, Pau, and Odom would have been just as good as the trio with Bynum and we would have had an additional pg or sf against the Celtics.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:09 am    Post subject:

2Cleva wrote:
Hello to Bynum's bright future


Chris Broussard

Jan 11, 2008


For all of you young hoop lovers who dream of going big-time but currently have small-time game, look to Los Angeles Lakers center Andrew Bynum for inspiration. Granted, Bynum has always been extremely tall and extremely gifted (soft hands, hops), but he hasn't always been extremely successful.

Bynum was never the best player on his high school team, playing second-fiddle to someone named Sean Baptiste, who ended up at -- drum roll please!-- Fairleigh Dickinson.

Word has it, Bynum wasn't even first-team all-Middlesex County (N.J.) Conference as a senior. And legend has it that UConn coach Jim Calhoun, who would've gotten Bynum if Phil Jackson hadn't, had to pull some thick, cable-like strings to get Bynum in the McDonald's All-America game.

Today?

Tim Legler and I were talking Tuesday night and we agreed that if we were starting a new franchise and could take any center in the world, Bynum would be second on our list behind only Dwight Howard.

Now that's improvement.

As Baron Davis told me after Bynum put 17 and 16 on the Warriors last month, "That boy's gonna be a beast.''

For the past several years, we've all lamented the demise of the center. Shaq has told us he's the Last Don, the last true big man to walk the earth (or the hardwood).

But we've been wrong.

The center position is back, or better yet, on its way back.

Three years from now, there will be no fewer than five top-flight centers in the Association. Here's the order I'd take them in the aforementioned scenario:

1) Howard
2) Bynum
3) Greg Oden
4) Amare Stoudemire
5) Yao Ming

And who knows, maybe Al Jefferson will begin winning one day. And Tyson Chandler keeps improving by the month, so he could be elite by then.

Then there'll be the solid second tier of Andrew Bogut, Chris Kaman and Emeka Okafor. I'm not sure where Al Horford will fit in yet, but he'll be solid, at worst.

That's not to mention any youngsters who are in college or high school right now.

Back in the '80s, how many top-flight centers were there?

1) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2) Moses Malone
3) Robert Parish

After those three, you start talking about a banged-up Bill Walton and then guys like Dan Issel, Artis Gilmore and Jack Sikma.

What about the '90s?

1) Hakeem Olajuwon
2) Patrick Ewing
3) Shaquille O'Neal
4) David Robinson
5) Alonzo Mourning (a notch below those four)

After that, you're looking at Dikembe Mutombo, Rik Smits and Vlade Divac. Too bad a back injury ruined Brad Daugherty's career or he'd be in that top five, ahead of Zo.

My point is that the center spot is about to be as strong as ever. In the modern era, there have never been more than a handful of great centers playing at any one time.

Soon, we'll have our handful. And in Bynum, opponents will have more than a handful. Much more.


2Cleva wrote:
EVERYBODY LOVES ANDREW (EVEN KOBE)

NOT TOO LONG AGO, LAKERS BIG ANDREW BYNUM WAS LITTLE MORE THAN TRADE BAIT. NICE WHAT A BUNCH OF DOUBLE-DOUBLES CAN DO FOR YOUR REPUTATION.


CHRIS BROUSSARD

JAN 18, 2008


ANDREW BYNUM’S EYES INFLATE TO THE SIZE OF BASKETBALLS. INSIDE THIS VEHICULAR PARADISE, THE EXOTIC-CAR LOVER IS HAVING A HARD TIME JUST TRYING TO KEEP HIS COOL. “IS THAT A BUGATTI?” HE SQUEALS, THREE SECONDS AFTER WALKING THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR of the exclusive Beverly Hills showroom. “Can I see if I fit?” He doesn’t like the answer. “I’d have to cut you off here or here for you to fit,” says the host, playfully touching the seven-footer at the knees and shoulders. It is a sad Bynum who turns away from the $1.75 million supercar, but as his eyes roam, his fever returns. “Think I’ll fit in there?” he asks, crouching to check out the leather Versace insides of a black Lamborghini. “You guys have a tall kit?” Sorry; rejected again. “That’s okay,” he whispers. “I’m a Ferrari guy anyway.”

Actually, today Bynum is a Bentley guy. For a 50th-birthday gift that’s sure to garner points with his roommate—Mom—the Lakers’ 20-year-old center is ordering a custom Continental Flying Spur. Knowledgeable about even the smallest details, he pieces together a $225,000 showstopper with a magnolia (cream) exterior, saddle (rust) interior—and a refrigerator in the back. Janet McCoy is going to love it. “Last year I got her a little ring from Kay Jewelers,” he says with a laugh. What a difference a year makes. Heck, what a difference a few months make.

In June, Bynum was viewed as a thorn in Kobe’s side, the primary reason the game’s best player wasn’t competing for championships alongside either Jason Kidd or Jermaine O’Neal. Both the Nets and the Pacers had offered their franchise players in deals that included Bynum, but the Lakers would have none of it. And Kobe was hot, his frustration captured on a video shot by three fans outside a Newport Beach mall. With Kobe venting profanely, the clip was soon a YouTube fave.

Andrew Bynum? Are you f—ing kidding me? Andrew Bynum? F—ing ship his ass out. We’re talking about Jason Kidd …

Sorry, Drew, nothing personal.

ON A clear day, you can see the Hollywood sign from the roof of Bynum’s five-bedroom house in Westchester, some 10 miles away. But on this day, no one was sightseeing. Less than two weeks after “the Kobe video” went viral, Bynum’s inner circle convened an urgent sitdown. Larry Marshall, Bynum’s mentor of seven years, was, as always, front and center. He’d been there for Bynum from the start, believing in him when no one else did.

A trucking-company owner, he was also Bynum’s AAU coach and the first to tell Janet that her huge, slightly awkward son would one day play in the NBA; the first to suggest that the Jersey kid leap from prep to pro. He helped Bynum shed 34 pounds before the 2005 draft and gave the Lakers the idea of hiring Kareem to work with him on a daily basis afterward. Now, as Marshall sat in Bynum’s living room with Janet and Andrew’s older brother, Corey Thomas, his mind raced. How would this teenager take to being publicly humiliated by the game’s biggest superstar? Would it send him sulking, or worse, destroy his confidence and irreparably set back his development?

Marshall began cautiously but firmly. “Are you going to take this as a negative and cry about it?” he asked. “Or are you going to take it as a challenge? You need to show Kobe he should be glad to play with you, that you can deliver a championship, that you can be the player he needs you to be—even if he doesn’t know it yet.” He went on: “Kobe did us a favor, son. He made you a household name. You couldn’t buy better publicity.”

It was Knute Rockne, Jim Valvano and Pat Riley rolled into one, and Bynum appreciated it. Only he didn’t need the lift. While everyone around him was busy being angry and fretting over his feelings, Bynum was fine. Really. To this day he hasn’t even seen the video. Really. Mostly, he brushed off the drama, believing absolutely, positively that Kobe spoke only out of frustration, not a dislike for him or his game. Which isn’t to say that the whole business didn’t motivate him at least a little bit. “I don’t ever want anyone to blame me for my team’s problems,” he says.

Bothered by his struggles during the second half of last season, Bynum hired a personal trainer months before Kobe’s eruption. But there were times when the star’s harsh words helped push him through his off-season, five-hour-a-day, six-day-a-week training regimen: more than 90 minutes on the outdoor track in the 100° heat of Atlanta, 90-plus in the weight room and 90 more on the court with trainer Sean Zarzana and former NBA players. “I bet there are only five to 10 guys in the league who worked as hard as I did,” Bynum says.

The effort hasn’t gone unnoticed, least of all by No. 24. Without question one of those “five to 10 guys” Bynum alluded to, Kobe has no tolerance for a weak work ethic. Push it full throttle, put in extra work both in practice and on game days, and you’ll get his respect and support.
These days, Bynum has both.

Fresh from the Lakers’ morning shootaround before an earlyseason matchup against the Celtics in Boston, Kobe was lifting at the Sports Club/LA. It’s been his pregame routine for years, and rarely has he been joined by a fellow member of the purple-and-gold. But as he rose from one of his reps, he saw something that made him smile: a young center and his trainer entering the gym. “Love to see that,” Kobe shouted. After watching Bynum work for a while, Kobe strode over to Zarzana to give him a pound and a huge hug. “Yo, G, he looks incredible,” he said. “Please keep him working.”

Kobe says the video incident led people to misunderstand his relationship with Bynum. He says when Andrew was a rookie, he told him he could be “phenomenal,” and he worked with the young big sometimes after practice last season. When the star apologized quickly with a text message and later in person during training camp, he said his comments came out of respect for Kidd, not disrespect for Bynum. Revisionist history or not, nowadays Kobe and Bynum often can be seen on the bench sharing laughs during a surprisingly successful run that has put the Lakers firmly among the West’s elite. Kobe’s current characterization of their relationship is “big brotherlittle brother.”

That sounds about right to Robert Lara, the Lakers head of security and a S.W.A.T. officer in nearby Torrance. Lara, who has grown close to Bynum—even taking him to fire shotguns at a local range on occasion—says, “Andrew is really a lot like Kobe. They’re both smart and analytical. They don’t want just to be told to do something; they want to understand how to do it and why to do it that way.”

With the pair’s court chemistry developing quickly, Lakers screen-and-rolls often end with Bynum slams off Kobe lobs. Kobe now sees he might have the big man he needs to get the Lakers back into title contention. But at 29 years old and in his 12th season, Bryant has no time for “potential”; he wants a big body he can go to war with—now. So he consistently challenges Bynum to play beyond his years. “Look, I had to deal with the same thing,” Kobe says bluntly after a recent practice. “When I first came into the league, Shaq wasn’t waiting for me. I had to go. At the age of 20, 21, I had to be a championship guard. That’s the sense of urgency Andrew needs to play with.”

Bynum is cool with that, but he’d have Kobe know he’s still 19 months younger than when Kobe won his first ring. “He’s definitely pushed me to be a better player faster,” Bynum says. “But even by his standards, I still have time to develop.” To be fair, as productive as he is—13 ppg, 10 rpg and 2 bpg in only 29 minutes—Bynum is still as raw as a North Dakota winter, the bulk of his points coming off putbacks and alley-oops. Once the man-child masters a jump hook and turnaround J—not to mention his apprehension about using that sky hook Abdul-Jabbar has been teaching him—well, look out.

And by the way, there is no longer much debate around the NBA about whether the Lakers should have pulled the trigger on moving him. Remember that O’Neal deal? Bynum has thoroughly outplayed him twice this season. And Kidd? “I don’t think they’re a championship team with Kidd, Kobe and no big man,” says one league exec. “And the way Bynum is playing, it looks like they’ll have a great center for the next 15 years.”

ABOUT THE only question left about Bynum is this: Does he love the game enough to fulfill his mountainous potential? Bynum thinks concerns about his fire are hogwash. He reminds skeptics that he’s been playing basketball since he was 5, dreaming of making the NBA since he could follow a game on TV. He has stories about sneaking out of his mom’s two-bedroom apartment in Plainsboro, N.J., on school nights to join his brother and friends for midnight runs and says that while his prep pals were thinking about proms and skating toward graduation in the spring of 2005, he was rising at 5 a.m. to run wind sprints at the Jersey shore. And he doesn’t love the game? What, just because he’s a late bloomer? “I think people get thrown because I’m kind of like Tim Duncan, laid-back,” Bynum says. “I have the fire. I’m just not crazy demonstrative.”

Look deeper. All the tools are there: footwork (Bynum played competitive tennis through the 10th grade), intelligence (he graduated from high school with a 3.6 GPA and has a keen interest in physics), tutelage (his one-on-ones with Abdul-Jabbar are into their third year), length (he can touch the rim from his tiptoes), soft hands (he catches lobs like Randy Moss) and athleticism (he’s one of the few bigs with the agility to stay with Golden State’s small lineup). In Bynum’s predraft workout, he wowed Lakers scouts with quickness off the floor comparable to that of recent slam-dunk champs Gerald Green and Nate Robinson, amazing for a man his size.

Lakers coach Phil Jackson says Bynum could blossom into a world-class big. “We’d like to see Andrew get into that elite group—Wilt, Bill Russell, Kareem, Olajuwon, down to Patrick Ewing—where he can change the game by himself,” Jackson says. The big man sure looked the part on Christmas, collecting a career-best 28 points to go with 12 boards in a demolition of Amaré Stoudemire. After slamming in an alley-oop as the Suns center clung helplessly to his arm, Bynum hopped around like he was on a pogo stick, grinning and nodding in a “Who’s the man-child now?” sort of way. The Lakers love that kind of emotion, no one more so than rookie Javaris Crittenton, the only Laker younger than Bynum and his closest friend on the team. Crittenton constantly coaxes Bynum to unleash his inner beast, imploring him on dunks to “try and break the rim, try and break somebody’s hands.”

The inner beast is coming. Bynum’s inner geek, however, is already on the loose. The Lakers’ heir to the Big Aristotle really is a big Aristotle—maybe Pythagoras—building computers in his spare time. The owner of four or five laptops and several PCs, he recently turned $17,000 worth of disconnected parts into a high-powered network. (Mom isn’t crazy about all the hardware, but once Andrew moves out this summer, that won’t be an issue.) His creation can do everything from make movies to program hip-hop beats. But Crittenton isn’t about to let Bynum’s gentler, intellectual side exist in peace. “I’m never going to let him live down spending all that money on a computer,” Crittenton says. “If I spend $17,000 on a computer, it’d better talk to me, do my work, all that.”

Bynum, though, has no plans to hide his less-beastly qualities. Even at 20, he’s too much of his own man for that. You’re talking about a Gen Y NBA player with no tattoos—and no plans to get any. “When I’m 50, I might not want something written on my arm,” he says. He doesn’t smoke or drink—or have any plans to once he’s legal. He’s got no posse; most of his best friends are away at college. One is studying to be a doctor, another is majoring in business marketing. Bynum himself says he’d be studying computer engineering if he weren’t dunking on folks’ heads for a living. And having promised his mom he’d earn a degree, he took math and history classes at Loyola Marymount last summer. He got B’s.

THE CLOSEST thing Bynum has to a vice is his obsession with automobiles. He began to devour car magazines as a youngster, and soon after becoming the youngest NBA draftee ever, he bought a GMC Yukon. Whoever sold it to him wouldn’t recognize it today; he’s pimped it so hard it’s now the baddest truck on the street. With several LAB (Lee Andrew Bynum) nameplates set around the body, a supercharger beneath the hood, blue LED lights along the running boards, tinted windows, 24-inch rims, seven TV screens and four 15-inch speakers in the trunk, Bynum’s ride has taken first place at two local car shows.

Minutes after leaving the Bentley dealership, Bynum is showing off his creation, pumping the volume on his Rockford Fosgate sound system to pound Cassidy’s “My Drink N’ My 2 Step.” He laughs when a passenger, eardrums and cheeks bouncing to the beat, asks about safe decibel levels. Then, just like that, the party’s over. A motorcycle cop flashes his lights and motions for Bynum, who was nowhere near speeding, to pull over. With dusk approaching, the officer walks up holding his light stick toward Bynum’s face. When he asks for his driver’s license, insurance and registration, Bynum politely asks permission to reach for them in his pocket and console. Documents in hand, the cop heads back to his bike. Upon his quick return, he is in a noticeably nicer mood. He says something about the LEDs, a minor infraction, and lets Bynum off with a warning.

Clearly the cop thought Bynum was something he’s not. Kobe made that mistake once too.

Is Bynum title-ready?

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