How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gone if Bynum had never gotten injured and we had never traded for Pau?
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How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gotten with a healthy Bynum but no Pau?
Championship
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
Lost in finals
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 26%  [ 5 ]
Lost in WCF
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Lost in semis
26%
 26%  [ 5 ]
Lost in first round
5%
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Missed playoffs
5%
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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:51 am    Post subject: How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gone if Bynum had never gotten injured and we had never traded for Pau?

Another quarantine what-if... The 07-08 Lakers started 26-11 and were the #1 seed in the west, with Bynum averaging 17.6 points and 10.6 rebounds in January. That was probably the best stretch of basketball in his career.

I wonder if Mitch still would have traded for Pau with Bynum/Odom. Assuming he hadn’t, how far in the playoffs would that team have gotten? (Assume he doesn’t get injured at some point.) I’d say Duncan likely shuts Bynum down, so WCF in 6 games.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:22 am    Post subject:

I'd rather debate what would have happened if Bynum never got injured and we still got Pau.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject:

Thug24Life8 wrote:
I'd rather debate what would have happened if Bynum never got injured and we still got Pau.


IMO Bynum never really fit with Pau. The best lineup on those championship teams was always Pau at center and Odom at PF. Both needed space in the paint on offense and were too slow to play PF on defense.

But having Bynum off the bench at center instead of Turiaf would have made a huge difference in Game 4.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:21 am    Post subject:

Bynum was our 3 and D center.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject:

Andrew "closeout games are kinda easy" Bynum
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
Andrew "closeout games are kinda easy" Bynum

That’s right I remember him most for his “give me the (bleep) ball!” moment. Lol good ole Bynum.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:36 am    Post subject:

ReaListik wrote:
danzag wrote:
Andrew "closeout games are kinda easy" Bynum

That’s right I remember him most for his “give me the (bleep) ball!” moment. Lol good ole Bynum.



It's weird that Bynum is most remembered now for all of his weird antics. There was a time when he was viewed as being the next great Laker center. And in his last season here, he averaged 18.7 points and 11.8 rebounds and was the second best center in the league.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
ReaListik wrote:
danzag wrote:
Andrew "closeout games are kinda easy" Bynum

That’s right I remember him most for his “give me the (bleep) ball!” moment. Lol good ole Bynum.



It's weird that Bynum is most remembered now for all of his weird antics. There was a time when he was viewed as being the next great Laker center. And in his last season here, he averaged 18.7 points and 11.8 rebounds and was the second best center in the league.


A lot of us had him pegged as #1 because of the way he used to body up Dwight and Timmy D. At his best he was just longer, stronger, and meaner than everyone else on the court.

also, i now remember him largely for his LUDICROUS hair choices in Philly and Cleveland. That and something about each city having ATM's.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject:

I think we would've lost in the WCF. Bynum was still developing offensively, and maybe Timmy and the Spurs would've been able to stop a really young Bynum.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Crazy thing was the Pau trade only happened due to Bynum's injury and Mitch initially interested in trading for Mike Miller instead, so talk about a move that saved Mitch for almost a decade. Pau would probably get traded to the Bulls since that was the initial trade destination for Pau before the Lakers and the Hornets or the Spurs most likely get the number 1 seed instead and Lakers end up as a 3rd to 6th seed in the West. Also, it's likely Chris Paul wins MVP instead.

First round without Pau would end up facing the Mavericks, Suns, or Rockets, which would be a dog fight. In the 2nd round, Lakers went to 6 games against the Jazz that year, which was the same Jazz team that went to the Conference Finals in 2007, so can see the Jazz actually beating the Lakers or Lakers winning due to just Kobe going extra crazy. In the conference finals, Lakers wouldn't have homecourt against the Hornets or Spurs, who both would be favored against the Lakers and can see the team losing to either the Hornets or Spurs. If Lakers somehow win that series, they most likely get swept or lose in 5 to the Celtics decisively. The run would be similar to those LeBron playoff runs heading into the finals with the Cav's, but losing to those highly favored Warriors squads. Also, Mitch probably makes a panic type of trade and trades Odom to try to compete against the Celtics big 3 somehow.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:49 am    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
Crazy thing was the Pau trade only happened due to Bynum's injury and Mitch initially interested in trading for Mike Miller instead, so talk about a move that saved Mitch for almost a decade. Pau would probably get traded to the Bulls since that was the initial trade destination for Pau before the Lakers and the Hornets or the Spurs most likely get the number 1 seed instead and Lakers end up as a 3rd to 6th seed in the West. Also, it's likely Chris Paul wins MVP instead.

First round without Pau would end up facing the Mavericks, Suns, or Rockets, which would be a dog fight. In the 2nd round, Lakers went to 6 games against the Jazz that year, which was the same Jazz team that went to the Conference Finals in 2007, so can see the Jazz actually beating the Lakers or Lakers winning due to just Kobe going extra crazy. In the conference finals, Lakers wouldn't have homecourt against the Hornets or Spurs, who both would be favored against the Lakers and can see the team losing to either the Hornets or Spurs. If Lakers somehow win that series, they most likely get swept or lose in 5 to the Celtics decisively. The run would be similar to those LeBron playoff runs heading into the finals with the Cav's, but losing to those highly favored Warriors squads. Also, Mitch probably makes a panic type of trade and trades Odom to try to compete against the Celtics big 3 somehow.



Imagine if we'd traded Odom for Mike Miller like Mitch wanted. Our starting lineup would have been:

Fisher
Kobe
Mike Miller
Turiaf
Kwame Brown

Bench:

Farmar
Sasha
Walton
Radmanovic
DJ Mbenga

That team would have gotten destroyed in the first round.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Crazy thing was the Pau trade only happened due to Bynum's injury and Mitch initially interested in trading for Mike Miller instead, so talk about a move that saved Mitch for almost a decade. Pau would probably get traded to the Bulls since that was the initial trade destination for Pau before the Lakers and the Hornets or the Spurs most likely get the number 1 seed instead and Lakers end up as a 3rd to 6th seed in the West. Also, it's likely Chris Paul wins MVP instead.

First round without Pau would end up facing the Mavericks, Suns, or Rockets, which would be a dog fight. In the 2nd round, Lakers went to 6 games against the Jazz that year, which was the same Jazz team that went to the Conference Finals in 2007, so can see the Jazz actually beating the Lakers or Lakers winning due to just Kobe going extra crazy. In the conference finals, Lakers wouldn't have homecourt against the Hornets or Spurs, who both would be favored against the Lakers and can see the team losing to either the Hornets or Spurs. If Lakers somehow win that series, they most likely get swept or lose in 5 to the Celtics decisively. The run would be similar to those LeBron playoff runs heading into the finals with the Cav's, but losing to those highly favored Warriors squads. Also, Mitch probably makes a panic type of trade and trades Odom to try to compete against the Celtics big 3 somehow.



Imagine if we'd traded Odom for Mike Miller like Mitch wanted. Our starting lineup would have been:

Fisher
Kobe
Mike Miller
Turiaf
Kwame Brown

Bench:

Farmar
Sasha
Walton
Radmanovic
DJ Mbenga

That team would have gotten destroyed in the first round.

In this scenario you would have healthy Bynum who brokeout that season. Kobe, Bynum, Miller, & Fisher would be enough to get past the first round imo, as Kobe was MVP that year and really took his game to the next level mentally & as a leader. Would take this version of the Lakers with Mike Miller added over Dirk pre-1st ring with the Mavericks & those T-Mac/Yao Rockets, but the Suns would be a really tough match-up since they would have nobody that can guard Amare & Nash. Kobe was next level that year, the game 1 vs the Spurs in the 2008 WCF might have been his most brilliant.


Last edited by JPaulK0n on Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
Bynum was our 3 and D center.


https://youtu.be/_TQoL7IGyBM
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:36 pm    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
Crazy thing was the Pau trade only happened due to Bynum's injury and Mitch initially interested in trading for Mike Miller instead, so talk about a move that saved Mitch for almost a decade. Pau would probably get traded to the Bulls since that was the initial trade destination for Pau before the Lakers and the Hornets or the Spurs most likely get the number 1 seed instead and Lakers end up as a 3rd to 6th seed in the West. Also, it's likely Chris Paul wins MVP instead.

First round without Pau would end up facing the Mavericks, Suns, or Rockets, which would be a dog fight. In the 2nd round, Lakers went to 6 games against the Jazz that year, which was the same Jazz team that went to the Conference Finals in 2007, so can see the Jazz actually beating the Lakers or Lakers winning due to just Kobe going extra crazy. In the conference finals, Lakers wouldn't have homecourt against the Hornets or Spurs, who both would be favored against the Lakers and can see the team losing to either the Hornets or Spurs. If Lakers somehow win that series, they most likely get swept or lose in 5 to the Celtics decisively. The run would be similar to those LeBron playoff runs heading into the finals with the Cav's, but losing to those highly favored Warriors squads. Also, Mitch probably makes a panic type of trade and trades Odom to try to compete against the Celtics big 3 somehow.


The team had the best record in the West when Bynum went down. You think a 5th or 6th seed was more likely than a 1 or 2? The West didn’t have any great teams that year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Crazy thing was the Pau trade only happened due to Bynum's injury and Mitch initially interested in trading for Mike Miller instead, so talk about a move that saved Mitch for almost a decade. Pau would probably get traded to the Bulls since that was the initial trade destination for Pau before the Lakers and the Hornets or the Spurs most likely get the number 1 seed instead and Lakers end up as a 3rd to 6th seed in the West. Also, it's likely Chris Paul wins MVP instead.

First round without Pau would end up facing the Mavericks, Suns, or Rockets, which would be a dog fight. In the 2nd round, Lakers went to 6 games against the Jazz that year, which was the same Jazz team that went to the Conference Finals in 2007, so can see the Jazz actually beating the Lakers or Lakers winning due to just Kobe going extra crazy. In the conference finals, Lakers wouldn't have homecourt against the Hornets or Spurs, who both would be favored against the Lakers and can see the team losing to either the Hornets or Spurs. If Lakers somehow win that series, they most likely get swept or lose in 5 to the Celtics decisively. The run would be similar to those LeBron playoff runs heading into the finals with the Cav's, but losing to those highly favored Warriors squads. Also, Mitch probably makes a panic type of trade and trades Odom to try to compete against the Celtics big 3 somehow.



Imagine if we'd traded Odom for Mike Miller like Mitch wanted. Our starting lineup would have been:

Fisher
Kobe
Mike Miller
Turiaf
Kwame Brown

Bench:

Farmar
Sasha
Walton
Radmanovic
DJ Mbenga

That team would have gotten destroyed in the first round.

In this scenario you would have healthy Bynum who brokeout that season. Kobe, Bynum, Miller, & Fisher would be enough to get past the first round imo, as Kobe was MVP that year and really took his game to the next level mentally & as a leader. Would take this version of the Lakers with Mike Miller added over Dirk pre-1st ring with the Mavericks & those T-Mac/Yao Rockets, but the Suns would be a really tough match-up since they would have nobody that can guard Amare & Nash. Kobe was next level that year, the game 1 vs the Spurs in the 2008 WCF might have been his most brilliant.


The Odom for Mike Miller trade was proposed after the Bynum injury-- not really sure what Mitch's rationale was. Chris Wallace then offered Pau for Kwame et. al instead-- it was his idea, not Mitch's.

Earlier in the season, I remember people on this forum proposing a Bynum and Odom for Jermaine O'Neal trade. Or trying to trade Odom for Rasheed Wallace.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject:

Bynum was key for the defense, and he was a great offensive center, when healthy. I really soured one his act, but it would have been nice if things were different.

But Bynum playing D, Kobe, Pau, and Odom filling in and finishing games, that was a great combo.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gone if Bynum had never gotten injured and we had never traded for Pau?

CandyCanes wrote:
Another quarantine what-if... The 07-08 Lakers started 26-11 and were the #1 seed in the west, with Bynum averaging 17.6 points and 10.6 rebounds in January. That was probably the best stretch of basketball in his career.

I wonder if Mitch still would have traded for Pau with Bynum/Odom. Assuming he hadn’t, how far in the playoffs would that team have gotten? (Assume he doesn’t get injured at some point.) I’d say Duncan likely shuts Bynum down, so WCF in 6 games.


If that injury was the only reason we traded for Pau, then it was a blessing in disguise. As we found out later in his career, he didn't have the greatest passion for the game. I think he rather build computers or something? LOL! Putting all our eggs in the Bynum basket would have been a big mistake.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gone if Bynum had never gotten injured and we had never traded for Pau?

Runway8 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Another quarantine what-if... The 07-08 Lakers started 26-11 and were the #1 seed in the west, with Bynum averaging 17.6 points and 10.6 rebounds in January. That was probably the best stretch of basketball in his career.

I wonder if Mitch still would have traded for Pau with Bynum/Odom. Assuming he hadn’t, how far in the playoffs would that team have gotten? (Assume he doesn’t get injured at some point.) I’d say Duncan likely shuts Bynum down, so WCF in 6 games.


If that injury was the only reason we traded for Pau, then it was a blessing in disguise. As we found out later in his career, he didn't have the greatest passion for the game. I think he rather build computers or something? LOL! Putting all our eggs in the Bynum basket would have been a big mistake.


Bynum played quite well for a period of time but I was always wary of him, I never believed he was “all in” on becoming a great player. It was awful when he got hurt. But we were better off with Pau in the end. A pro’s pro, and he worked hard to maximize his game.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:39 am    Post subject:

I have a few different thoughts on this one:

1. I think that team needed to come close and lose once before they could win it.

2. They gave up so little for Pau at the time, a second round pick (M. Gasol) who wouldn't come into the league for another season, a troubled late first rounder (Crittenton), Kwame and a future pick, they weren't going to get a player of Pau's quality for that elsewhere so I think you do that trade with or without Bynum's injury if its available.

3. Bynum pre-injury was looking like a future superstar. But he also was likely going to struggle in his first post-season trying to play a bigger role and had shown some conditioning issues going down the stretch the previous season. I'd imagine those growing pains would have hurt without Pau, and they probably don't reach the Finals.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:08 am    Post subject:

I guess the 'Bigger' question is would the Lakers have won the Championship if they would have had Pau earlier, would it have been another three-peat?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject:

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    As a player, you have to put your trust in the organization … and some organizations nowadays have so many different shareholders and board members and people that are making decisions by committee and all this crazy stuff. With the Lakers, it was one man. And so, I had to trust him.

    And when I heard from him, not just with the telegram but then sitting down with him in Barcelona and looking at him eye to eye. We talked for about an hour and a half, two hours, and I decided to believe in him, and he believed in me. It was a conversation that only he and I knew about. We didn’t tell Mitch (Kupchak), we didn’t tell anybody about that. It was just a conversation (Dr. Buss) and I had. We just stayed the course. We were out there on family vacation, and (Dr. Buss) was in Italy, and he hopped a plane to come sit with me.

    Coincidentally, I went to work out the next morning, and I was looking for gyms out there. The hotel recommended this (gym), and I went there in the morning, and Pau Gasol was there. I went there in the morning, and it was rare, because Pau never wakes up in the morning to work out! He was talking about wanting to get out of Memphis and all this stuff, and I’m like, ‘Man it’d be great if we could play together.’ I’ve always had respect for him, known his family. And little did we know we’d be teammates months later … extremely serendipitous.

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    It was weird timing, because Kobe was during that time also unhappy and there were stories of him potentially getting traded, or being able to move on from L.A., and then looking for a different situation. I was also in a position where I felt like I needed to move on and change scenery in a different situation because Memphis was going through a very tough, tough stretch with (former Grizzlies owner Michael) Heisley trying to sell the team, and constant rebuilding. We weren’t getting better to the point that I needed our team to be.

    So, it was interesting timing how we both ran into each other in Barcelona during a family trip from him, and he came to the gym I used to work out at in a hotel in Barcelona. And we just talked about how cool it would be if we could actually end up playing together, but I hardly gave it a thought, because I thought there was no way they would trade me to the Lakers. It wasn’t even in my mind. It was too good to be true. And guess what, a few months later, it ended up happening, and our paths crossed and we had an incredible run and were able to win championships.

    Life is funny that way. I’m super thankful how Kobe wanted me on board, how Dr. Buss also was in favor and supportive of getting me and doing what it took to get me to the Lakers. I couldn’t be more thankful for all the parties involved in that trade, because it really changed my career here in the NBA, and gave me a second life.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:24 am    Post subject:

I think the Lakers stood as good a chance as they did before with a healthy Bynum. He was definitely a more natural center and tougher than Pau down low and I think he'd have been a matchup nightmare for the Celtics, even if Garnett was put on him. Bynum was looking THAT good.

That said, I think Mitch still makes the trade for Bynum mid season, and he got so little for him it would have been an even bigger steal.

Then again, I'm in the boat that if we had Bynum and Ariza for that Finals we'd have beaten the Celtics anyway and three-peated.

I always disliked how the media loved to talk about Perkins(of all people) getting hurt in game 6 to try to take credit from the Lakers Finals win, but always forget that we didn't have Bynum or Ariza when the Celtics beat us.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: How far would the 07-08 Lakers have gone if Bynum had never gotten injured and we had never traded for Pau?

JUST-MING wrote:
Runway8 wrote:

If that injury was the only reason we traded for Pau, then it was a blessing in disguise. As we found out later in his career, he didn't have the greatest passion for the game. I think he rather build computers or something? LOL! Putting all our eggs in the Bynum basket would have been a big mistake.


It wasn’t the only reason. Kobe and Dr. Buss met Pau in Barcelona in the summer of 2007. Pau made his trade demand in 2006. It seemed like tampering to me. It might be why Logo left Memphis.


The Lakers never asked for Pau, he wasn’t Mitch’s target.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject:

YAO MING
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:35 am    Post subject:

Thanks for posting that npz, I was at that game. A playoff type atmosphere that evening to be sure.

I recall massive media buzz for Chris Paul as the MVP that season which would have been absurd. He’s a great player but come on. Kobe was easily the best player in the league at that point and Paul has always been just good enough to lose with imo.

Kobe showed everybody what was what that night.
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