BLACK LIVES MATTER (Please Continue to Say Their Names) - Jacob Blake (p.51)
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:31 am    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
kikanga wrote:
So the people who thought Kyle Rittenhouse was right for killing those people. Because it was "self-defense".
Do you believe the Antifa shooter in Portland who shot and killed someone macing him was acting in self defense as well?

FWIW, I think both people are murderers.


All video footage currently available shows Rittenhouse running away from people trying to beat him up/take his gun. He can argue that he didn't know if they were armed. One attacker definitely had a handgun. Handgun guy put his hands up at first, which made Rittenhouse hold his fire until handgun guy decided that this was just a pump fake and then drew on Rittenhouse before being rewarded for his tactical prowess with 5 years of rehab and physical therapy.

Why stretch the definition of murder just because I hate maga rubes?

re: Portland shooter, available video is inconclusive at best.

He drove across state lines in illegal possession of a firearm to "protect property" in a city and state that were not his home and now two people he interacted with are dead.

It's impressive that this young criminal charged with first degree homicide was the only pro-cop protestor openly carrying an assault rifle - because there were many present that night in Kenosha - who had protestors who "wanted to beat him up/take his gun." Doesn't seem like that's a good use of protestors' time and we haven't seen a wave of unarmed protestors going after Proud Boys and cosplaying cops anywhere in the country nor at Kenosha outside of this one incident with Rittenhouse. ETA: and the Patriot Prayer murder, though I don't know if he was armed or not.

I'm curious to hear what happened before the initial murder. What made this kid special?

Also, as far as I can tell, Wisconsin does not have stand your ground laws.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:41 am    Post subject:

The problem with the cops killing the guy suspected of killing the right winger in Portland is now we'll never possibly know the truth of what happened.

Thanks, cops.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
The problem with the cops killing the guy suspected of killing the right winger in Portland is now we'll never possibly know the truth of what happened.

Thanks, cops.


Is this what you're talking about? Did the cops kill the guy who shot this person? Do you have a link on them shooting the suspected killer?

LINK
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:01 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
The problem with the cops killing the guy suspected of killing the right winger in Portland is now we'll never possibly know the truth of what happened.

Thanks, cops.


Is this what you're talking about? Did the cops kill the guy who shot this person? Do you have a link on them shooting the suspected killer?

LINK

Reported in the NY Times:
Quote:
Mike Baker
@ByMikeBaker
BREAKING: Sources tell us that Michael Reinoehl, the man being investigated for the killing of a right-wing activist in Portland, has been killed by authorities in Lacey, Wash.

UPDATE from the sheriff's agency investigating the shooting: The department says 4 officers shot their guns. They believe the suspect had a weapon but can't say right now whether or not he used it. The shooting happened around a vehicle near an apartment.

An hour before he was killed, Reinoehl was working on setting up a GoFundMe page and talking about plans for his two kids, a friend says.

https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1301723972099170306

The Times article is linked in the tweet thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:14 am    Post subject:

^^^^^ Thanks. Sounds like he knew the end was near.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject:

Quote:
According to Lt. Ray Brady of the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office, law enforcement was in the area looking for a homicide suspect, and that the 48-year-old Reinoehl was seen exiting an apartment and entering a vehicle, according to the New York Times.

“As they attempted to apprehend him, there was gunfire,” said Brady.

According to the Associated Press, Reinoehl pulled a gun during the incident, after a federal task force from the FBI and the U.S. Marshals Service located Reinoehl.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject:

xxsicrokerxx wrote:
Quote:
According to Lt. Ray Brady of the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office, law enforcement was in the area looking for a homicide suspect, and that the 48-year-old Reinoehl was seen exiting an apartment and entering a vehicle, according to the New York Times.

“As they attempted to apprehend him, there was gunfire,” said Brady.

According to the Associated Press, Reinoehl pulled a gun during the incident, after a federal task force from the FBI and the U.S. Marshals Service located Reinoehl.

They stumbled upon him but he was also located? That's poorly phrased.

Anyway, he's dead.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject:

C M B wrote:
kikanga wrote:
So the people who thought Kyle Rittenhouse was right for killing those people. Because it was "self-defense".
Do you believe the Antifa shooter in Portland who shot and killed someone macing him was acting in self defense as well?

FWIW, I think both people are murderers.


All video footage currently available shows Rittenhouse running away from people trying to beat him up/take his gun. He can argue that he didn't know if they were armed. One attacker definitely had a handgun. Handgun guy put his hands up at first, which made Rittenhouse hold his fire until handgun guy decided that this was just a pump fake and then drew on Rittenhouse before being rewarded for his tactical prowess with 5 years of rehab and physical therapy.

Why stretch the definition of murder just because I hate maga rubes?

re: Portland shooter, available video is inconclusive at best.


I'm not stretching the term. He has literally been charged with 2 counts of first degree homicide.

That video of people chasing him is after he already murdered someone for throwing a plastic bag and than ran away in guilty fear. The people chasing him were worried he'd kill again. And despite that fact they still tried to disarm Kyle and not shoot him.

There's a reason why both shooters are/were getting charged with homicide. It's a slippery slope. Vigilante justice without consequence, shooting one another at protests without consequence. If that becomes standard, you are one step closer to a race war.

Oh, and this whole thing must be giving Putin the biggest chub ever.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:33 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
C M B wrote:
kikanga wrote:
So the people who thought Kyle Rittenhouse was right for killing those people. Because it was "self-defense".
Do you believe the Antifa shooter in Portland who shot and killed someone macing him was acting in self defense as well?

FWIW, I think both people are murderers.


All video footage currently available shows Rittenhouse running away from people trying to beat him up/take his gun. He can argue that he didn't know if they were armed. One attacker definitely had a handgun. Handgun guy put his hands up at first, which made Rittenhouse hold his fire until handgun guy decided that this was just a pump fake and then drew on Rittenhouse before being rewarded for his tactical prowess with 5 years of rehab and physical therapy.

Why stretch the definition of murder just because I hate maga rubes?

re: Portland shooter, available video is inconclusive at best.


I'm not stretching the term. He has literally been charged with 2 counts of first degree homicide.

That video of people chasing him is after he already murdered someone for throwing a plastic bag and than ran away in guilty fear. The people chasing him were worried he'd kill again. And despite that fact they still tried to disarm Kyle and not shoot him.

There's a reason why both shooters are/were getting charged with homicide. It's a slippery slope. Vigilante justice without consequence, shooting one another at protests without consequence. If that becomes standard, you are one step closer to a race war.

Oh, and this whole thing must be giving Putin the biggest chub ever.


“As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle.”

“He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.”

“Kyle stopped to ensure care for the wounded attacker but faced a growing mob gesturing towards him. He realized he needed to flee for his safety and his survival. Another attacker struck Kyle from behind as he fled down the street. Kyle turned as the mob pressed in on him and he fell to the ground. One attacker kicked Kyle on the ground while he was on the ground. Yet another bashed him over the head with a skateboard. Several rioters tried to disarm Kyle. In fear for his life and concerned the crowd would either continue to shoot at him or even use his own weapon against him, Kyle had no choice but to fire multiple rounds towards his immediate attackers, striking two, including one armed attacker. The rest of the mob began to disperse upon hearing the additional gunshots.”
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:50 am    Post subject:

xxsicrokerxx wrote:
“As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle.”

“He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.”

“Kyle stopped to ensure care for the wounded attacker but faced a growing mob gesturing towards him. He realized he needed to flee for his safety and his survival. Another attacker struck Kyle from behind as he fled down the street. Kyle turned as the mob pressed in on him and he fell to the ground. One attacker kicked Kyle on the ground while he was on the ground. Yet another bashed him over the head with a skateboard. Several rioters tried to disarm Kyle. In fear for his life and concerned the crowd would either continue to shoot at him or even use his own weapon against him, Kyle had no choice but to fire multiple rounds towards his immediate attackers, striking two, including one armed attacker. The rest of the mob began to disperse upon hearing the additional gunshots.”


Yes, I read the statement from the law firm defending Kyle too. Kinda funny you wouldn't even reference who you're quoting. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't trying to hide it.

Here's the criminal complaint against Rittenhouse: https://tinyurl.com/y2xrygfj

Count 1: FIRST DEGREE RECKLESS HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Count 2: FIRST DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Count 3: FIRST DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Count 4: ATTEMPTED FIRST DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Count 5: FIRST DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Count 6: POSSESSION OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON BY A PERSON UNDER 18

I'm not gonna copy and paste the Probable Cause section. But it's there for anybody to read.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:53 am    Post subject:

Defending someone else's property is not grounds for murder. That's why police. You know the people whose job it is to do that stuff. Use non-lethal weapons during protests. Even when (a minority of) rioters show up.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject:

"Self defense" from Charlottesville, ca. 2017: https://youtube.com/watch?v=C2ro7U_Yoc4
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject:

xxsicrokerxx wrote:
kikanga wrote:
C M B wrote:
kikanga wrote:
So the people who thought Kyle Rittenhouse was right for killing those people. Because it was "self-defense".
Do you believe the Antifa shooter in Portland who shot and killed someone macing him was acting in self defense as well?

FWIW, I think both people are murderers.


All video footage currently available shows Rittenhouse running away from people trying to beat him up/take his gun. He can argue that he didn't know if they were armed. One attacker definitely had a handgun. Handgun guy put his hands up at first, which made Rittenhouse hold his fire until handgun guy decided that this was just a pump fake and then drew on Rittenhouse before being rewarded for his tactical prowess with 5 years of rehab and physical therapy.

Why stretch the definition of murder just because I hate maga rubes?

re: Portland shooter, available video is inconclusive at best.


I'm not stretching the term. He has literally been charged with 2 counts of first degree homicide.

That video of people chasing him is after he already murdered someone for throwing a plastic bag and than ran away in guilty fear. The people chasing him were worried he'd kill again. And despite that fact they still tried to disarm Kyle and not shoot him.

There's a reason why both shooters are/were getting charged with homicide. It's a slippery slope. Vigilante justice without consequence, shooting one another at protests without consequence. If that becomes standard, you are one step closer to a race war.

Oh, and this whole thing must be giving Putin the biggest chub ever.


“As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle.”

“He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.”

“Kyle stopped to ensure care for the wounded attacker but faced a growing mob gesturing towards him. He realized he needed to flee for his safety and his survival. Another attacker struck Kyle from behind as he fled down the street. Kyle turned as the mob pressed in on him and he fell to the ground. One attacker kicked Kyle on the ground while he was on the ground. Yet another bashed him over the head with a skateboard. Several rioters tried to disarm Kyle. In fear for his life and concerned the crowd would either continue to shoot at him or even use his own weapon against him, Kyle had no choice but to fire multiple rounds towards his immediate attackers, striking two, including one armed attacker. The rest of the mob began to disperse upon hearing the additional gunshots.”


1) Kyle had no authority to protect businesses, that's why we have police forces.

2) He killed someone for throwing a plastic bag. A PLASTIC BAG.

3) If he had the right to protect businesses the protesters had the right to affect a citizen's arrest.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:51 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

1) Kyle had no authority to protect businesses, that's why we have police forces.

2) He killed someone for throwing a plastic bag. A PLASTIC BAG.

3) If he had the right to protect businesses the protesters had the right to affect a citizen's arrest.


Well said.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
jodeke wrote:

1) Kyle had no authority to protect businesses, that's why we have police forces.

2) He killed someone for throwing a plastic bag. A PLASTIC BAG.

3) If he had the right to protect businesses the protesters had the right to affect a citizen's arrest.


Well said.

Using that logic could it debunk self defense?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:52 pm    Post subject:

Speaking extemporaneously, if anyone encounters a heavily armed individual who runs away from a crowd after killing one person, don't try to be a hero. Unlock your phone, and take a picture.

If the shooter were truly deranged and had further ill intentions, he would never run from a lesser-armed group. Any attack on a retreating shooter is far more likely to cause more death than it would prevent.

Rittenhouse should be in jail for reckless endangerment of public safety, but the 1st degree murder charges reek of grandstanding by the County Prosecutor (maybe it's just to ensure he doesn't make bail, which is actually wise for all parties).

At least this prosecutor sought other charges, unlike the Zimmerman trial which was a waste of taxpayer money, given how hard it would be to prove premeditated murder in that case.

Still looking for more facts around the death of Rosenbaum (who allegedly threw only a plastic bag). Intuition tells me the bag was wrapped loosely around another object, as loose thin plastic is not the most aerodynamic of projectiles. Probably not the weapon of choice for a man who, minutes earlier, was recorded yelling "Shoot me, -----".
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Speaking extemporaneously, if anyone encounters a heavily armed individual who runs away from a crowd after killing one person, don't try to be a hero. Unlock your phone, and take a picture.

If the shooter were truly deranged and had further ill intentions, he would never run from a lesser-armed group. Any attack on a retreating shooter is far more likely to cause more death than it would prevent.

Rittenhouse should be in jail for reckless endangerment of public safety, but the 1st degree murder charges reek of grandstanding by the County Prosecutor (maybe it's just to ensure he doesn't make bail, which is actually wise for all parties).

At least this prosecutor sought other charges, unlike the Zimmerman trial which was a waste of taxpayer money, given how hard it would be to prove premeditated murder in that case.

Still looking for more facts around the death of Rosenbaum (who allegedly threw only a plastic bag). Intuition tells me the bag was wrapped loosely around another object, as loose thin plastic is not the most aerodynamic of projectiles. Probably not the weapon of choice for a man who, minutes earlier, was recorded yelling "Shoot me, -----".


This is actually the most telling part of the whole thing.

Rittenhouse has been reported as spending the evening threatening people with his AR-15. As I linked earlier in the thread, people on the scene had contemplated disarming Rittenhouse even before he killed Rosenbaum.

Rosenbaum shouting "Shoot me" indicates that Rittenhouse had been making threats to do exactly that. No one randomly approaches someone with an assault rifle and just says, "Shoot me!" if there is not provocation on the part of the guys with the assault rifle.

Rosenbaum may have made a stupid decision to "provoke" Rittenhouse by throwing the plastic bag that apparently had some of his possessions, but there is little doubt who the actual provocateur was. It was the guy who had been brandishing his weapon all evening, after having been given the green light to do so by the very police force that was supposed to be protecting ALL citizens.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:25 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
The problem with the cops killing the guy suspected of killing the right winger in Portland is now we'll never possibly know the truth of what happened.

Thanks, cops.

The absolutely funniest thing is that leftists are arguing that shooter Reinoehl was an FBI plant.

I love my fellow American moron extremists.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:33 pm    Post subject:

The left and the right are subject to online Russian manipulation.

Morons: both sides!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Speaking extemporaneously, if anyone encounters a heavily armed individual who runs away from a crowd after killing one person, don't try to be a hero. Unlock your phone, and take a picture.

If the shooter were truly deranged and had further ill intentions, he would never run from a lesser-armed group. Any attack on a retreating shooter is far more likely to cause more death than it would prevent.

Rittenhouse should be in jail for reckless endangerment of public safety, but the 1st degree murder charges reek of grandstanding by the County Prosecutor (maybe it's just to ensure he doesn't make bail, which is actually wise for all parties).

At least this prosecutor sought other charges, unlike the Zimmerman trial which was a waste of taxpayer money, given how hard it would be to prove premeditated murder in that case.

Still looking for more facts around the death of Rosenbaum (who allegedly threw only a plastic bag). Intuition tells me the bag was wrapped loosely around another object, as loose thin plastic is not the most aerodynamic of projectiles. Probably not the weapon of choice for a man who, minutes earlier, was recorded yelling "Shoot me, -----".


This is actually the most telling part of the whole thing.

Rittenhouse has been reported as spending the evening threatening people with his AR-15. As I linked earlier in the thread, people on the scene had contemplated disarming Rittenhouse even before he killed Rosenbaum.

Rosenbaum shouting "Shoot me" indicates that Rittenhouse had been making threats to do exactly that. No one randomly approaches someone with an assault rifle and just says, "Shoot me!" if there is not provocation on the part of the guys with the assault rifle.

Rosenbaum may have made a stupid decision to "provoke" Rittenhouse by throwing the plastic bag that apparently had some of his possessions, but there is little doubt who the actual provocateur was. It was the guy who had been brandishing his weapon all evening, after having been given the green light to do so by the very police force that was supposed to be protecting ALL citizens.


There was a report (as you've pointed out) of Rittenhouse and several militia members intimidating a group of people (who must have been decently armed based on their account). If true, there should be aggravated assault charges in addition to the six current charges (and possible federal charge of crossing a state line with an assault weapon).

I agree it's very unlikely for Rosenbaum to have shouted "Shoot me" unprovoked. But do consider he is the only one in the video shouting angrily, while others around him appear relatively calm (some did look uncomfortable with his choice of words).

It is an open-carry state, and the harried (or possibly disinterested) police force isn't about to ID people who show up offering to help, one night after buildings were burned.

Regardless, raising a firearm at someone, outside of self-defense, is at least aggravated assault. Although the limited video I've seen shows Rittenhouse trying to avoid a charging Rosenbaum, and not using his rifle as a first resort. That doesn't fully answer who was responsible for the deadly escalation, though the shooter's reported reaction was not exactly one of a cold-blooded murderer (running away while calling his mom). The militia member who briefly accompanied him did note that the 17-year-old was not properly holding the weapon. Maybe that, combined with his agitated demeanor after claiming to have been maced, made him appear to have been brandishing the rifle. I'm no gun owner, but I believe one hand is supposed to be on the butt of the rifle, but never next to the trigger, while walking with an assault weapon in public.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:31 am    Post subject:

He didn't need an AR-15 if his goal was to "protect property". Police who are brought out in riot gear or who guard protests in general use non-lethal weaponry. For good reason.

Vigilantes murdering people on the street is a one way trip to chaos town.

This excerpt is very telling.

Quote:
Earlier in the evening, she'd treated a woman hit in the eye with a ricocheted rubber bullet and helped others wash away the tear gas that blurred their vision.

Fellow street medic Gaige Grosskreutz was helping people deal with tear gas, too. Marimackenzie, who had spent several evenings working with him throughout the summer of protests in Milwaukee, stopped to say hello. A 22-year-old with only 20 hours of street medic training to go with her CPR certification, she looked up to Grosskreutz, a licensed paramedic.

Another guy in the vicinity, one Marimackenzie didn't recognize, was telling people he was a medic, too. But he made her uneasy. He had an AR-15 slung across his chest; no medic she'd ever worked with carried a weapon like that.

Some medics arm themselves with handguns as a last resort for protection, but their priority was helping people. Usually, they were paired with security teams.

Marimackenzie's medic partner gestured to the young man.

"Avoid that guy. He looks like bad news."

She would later learn the man who'd drawn her partner's warning was Rittenhouse.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/08/31/witnesses-kenosha-shooting-see-kyle-rittenhouse-shoot-protest-jacob-blake/5675987002/
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Last edited by kikanga on Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:37 am    Post subject:

He was instigating conflict with people all night. Here's video of another person calling Kyle out before the shooting.
https://youtu.be/kYb7loD7RGg?t=183

I'm sure the police have tons of witnesses ready to testify.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:00 am    Post subject:

Reading all the perils the Trump administration has heaped upon America is sapping. I tire. It's going to take resolve to hold on.

Have to go to the polls and vote him out of office. The ballot box is our restoration tool. Trump is doing all in his power to destroy that means.

Trump has torn the country apart. It's going to take a lot to rebuild it. As a country, we've dug out of abysses in the past. I lived through them, I know this to be true.

Is our youth ready for the challenge?
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Defending someone else's property is not grounds for murder. That's why police. You know the people whose job it is to do that stuff. Use non-lethal weapons during protests. Even when (a minority of) rioters show up.


They're too busy pepper spraying peaceful protestors and turning a blind eye to the looters/rioters. Clear as day.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
The problem with the cops killing the guy suspected of killing the right winger in Portland is now we'll never possibly know the truth of what happened.

Thanks, cops.


There was an interview with the shooter on Vice

Quote:
In the Vice interview, Mr. Reinoehl said he had acted in self-defense, believing that he and a friend were about to be stabbed. “I could have sat there and watched them kill a friend of mine of color, but I wasn’t going to do that,” he said.


nytimes
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