A white woman has apologized after calling police on a black man and saying 'there's an African American man threatening my life'
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject:

Dog off the leash in a park - pretty common and not a big deal.

Asking someone to leash their dog where required - a little less common but not a big deal.

Calling the police to falsely report that her life is in danger while treating her own dog less than humanely is a pretty big deal and not at all a normal response.

Doing so because he is African American is despicable.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Dog off the leash in a park - pretty common and not a big deal.



Dog off a leash in a designated bird watching area where they tear up the vegetation for the birds...

Seems like a big deal to bird watchers.

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The 38-acre Ramble..... designated by the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation as a protected nature preserve.
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:59 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Dog off the leash in a park - pretty common and not a big deal.


Dog off a leash in a designated bird watching area where they tear up the vegetation for the birds...

Seems like a big deal to bird watchers.

Perhaps.
My point is that a logical reaction to the fairly common occurrence of an unleashed dog would be a polite request to leash the dog, which is what Mr. Cooper did.
He responded appropriately.
She did not.

Her over the top reaction is the story, not him.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 12:00 pm    Post subject:

Charles Blow wrote an editorial on this kind of invective on NYT where he mentioned Emmett Till. This situation reminded me of Till's case when I heard of it although the outcomes were on different worlds. The woman who made the claims that got Till murdered said the most damning (for 1955 Mississippi) aspects were lies. She died without ever giving a fully truthful account of her role in the situation.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Since I guess this needs to be said, let's discuss leash laws for a minute:

Leash laws exist primarily to protect people. Dogs have wildly different backgrounds and behaviors, and their hierarchical behaviors are complex and affected by a broad array of factors and stimuli. A leash law is designed to protect people (including the elderly, children, and the disabled) from loose dogs. Secondarily there are property protection issues, but mostly they are to protect people and dogs from other dogs and to prevent the owner of the property (in this case a municipal corporation)from undue liability.

I happen to have a very neurotic, high strung, anxious dog. Despite multiple years of training and love, he is boundlessly exuberant and literally screams at the sight of other dogs. He has virtually no fear of other dogs and while he is actually just wanting to play, he can give off signals of aggression to them, and he is a dominant dog in his play style. So we only take him in leashed areas, where I can control him, and can expect he won't have one or more loose dogs approach him rapidly and make me account for them too. And you can be damned sure i will be pretty strict about that rule. I've had the "oh he's friendly" excuse and then the dog gets into it with mine, so I don't have any tolerance. This isn't some preference or Karen situation. The dog I mentioned actually bit me as I was separating them. and bit my dog.

Even if you don't have a dog with you, you are entitled to the peaceful enjoyment of the area under the rules that loose dogs running around doesn't afford you. There are off leash areas, and everyone goes into them knowing the risk. Everyone goes into a leash only area knowing that there isn't supposed to be that issue, and are entitled to it. Especially city dwellers who have precious few areas to commune with nature.

The entire reason she didn't want him filming her is because she knew exactly what she was doing and that she could face repercussions. So she tried to bully him with the most dis-proportionally dangerous threat she could muster, and when he still didn't back down, she actually performed the threatened behavior, right down to simulating fear and distress in her voice. And we are talking about "yeah, but he kind of was a dick about a meaningless rule". Not true. He was pretty decent about it, but had every right to protect himself and the park nature area from an off leash dog.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
He was pretty decent about it, but had every right to protect himself and the park nature area from an off leash dog.

Yep. Decent and caring enough to even consider the repercussions faced by Ms. Cooper.

Quote:
Christian Cooper doubled down on his previous calls to end what Amy Cooper has described as death threats against her.

“If you think that what she did was wrong, that she was trying to bring death by cop down on my head, then there is absolutely no way you can justify then turning around and putting a death threat on her head,” he said.

Cooper added that he’s “uncomfortable” with defining her by “a couple seconds … of very poor judgement.”

“[There’s] no excusing that it was a racist act because it was a racist act," he said. "But [does] that define her entire life? Only she can tell us if that defines her entire life by what she does going forward."


Her PR statement on Tuesday included:
Quote:
“I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone, especially to that man, his family,” she told the news station in a phone call. “It was unacceptable and I humbly and fully apologize to everyone who’s seen that video, everyone that’s been offended … everyone who thinks of me in a lower light and I understand why they do.”


Quote:
He had every right to request that I leash my dog in an area where it was required . . . I am well aware of the pain that misassumptions and insensitive statements about race cause and would never have imagined that I would be involved in the type of incident that occurred with Chris.

Simple enough.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 2:24 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Dog off the leash in a park - pretty common and not a big deal.


Dog off a leash in a designated bird watching area where they tear up the vegetation for the birds...

Seems like a big deal to bird watchers.

Perhaps.
My point is that a logical reaction to the fairly common occurrence of an unleashed dog would be a polite request to leash the dog, which is what Mr. Cooper did.
He responded appropriately.
She did not.

Her over the top reaction is the story, not him.


Agreed
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
He was pretty decent about it, but had every right to protect himself and the park nature area from an off leash dog.

Yep. Decent and caring enough to even consider the repercussions faced by Ms. Cooper.

Quote:
Christian Cooper doubled down on his previous calls to end what Amy Cooper has described as death threats against her.

“If you think that what she did was wrong, that she was trying to bring death by cop down on my head, then there is absolutely no way you can justify then turning around and putting a death threat on her head,” he said.

Cooper added that he’s “uncomfortable” with defining her by “a couple seconds … of very poor judgement.”

“[There’s] no excusing that it was a racist act because it was a racist act," he said. "But [does] that define her entire life? Only she can tell us if that defines her entire life by what she does going forward."


Her PR statement on Tuesday included:
Quote:
“I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone, especially to that man, his family,” she told the news station in a phone call. “It was unacceptable and I humbly and fully apologize to everyone who’s seen that video, everyone that’s been offended … everyone who thinks of me in a lower light and I understand why they do.”


Quote:
He had every right to request that I leash my dog in an area where it was required . . . I am well aware of the pain that misassumptions and insensitive statements about race cause and would never have imagined that I would be involved in the type of incident that occurred with Chris.

Simple enough.


Good man!
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:12 pm    Post subject:

Dang narcs
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Disingenuous too. Nice . .


Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Larry wants to call me a racist, he can come out and say it. "Disingenuous" lol.


As I was saying above....
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 3:58 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:


Her PR statement on Tuesday included:
Quote:
“I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone, especially to that man, his family,” she told the news station in a phone call. “It was unacceptable and I humbly and fully apologize to everyone who’s seen that video, everyone that’s been offended … everyone who thinks of me in a lower light and I understand why they do.”


Quote:
He had every right to request that I leash my dog in an area where it was required . . . I am well aware of the pain that misassumptions and insensitive statements about race cause and would never have imagined that I would be involved in the type of incident that occurred with Chris.

Simple enough.


A well crafted statement by her. I’ve been thinking lately about people who have been publicly shamed on the internet, and whether there is also a public path to redemption, or will they forever be tarnished with a Scarlett “I” for Internet shamed. Imagine being publicly defined by your worst moment.

Private paths to redemption are always a possibility, but public ones? I’m not so sure.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:20 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:


Her PR statement on Tuesday included:
Quote:
“I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone, especially to that man, his family,” she told the news station in a phone call. “It was unacceptable and I humbly and fully apologize to everyone who’s seen that video, everyone that’s been offended … everyone who thinks of me in a lower light and I understand why they do.”


Quote:
He had every right to request that I leash my dog in an area where it was required . . . I am well aware of the pain that misassumptions and insensitive statements about race cause and would never have imagined that I would be involved in the type of incident that occurred with Chris.

Simple enough.


A well crafted statement by her. I’ve been thinking lately about people who have been publicly shamed on the internet, and whether there is also a public path to redemption, or will they forever be tarnished with a Scarlett “I” for Internet shamed. Imagine being publicly defined by your worst moment.

Private paths to redemption are always a possibility, but public ones? I’m not so sure.


Operative word being "crafted". It's a statement that reeks of, "I need to say the right things" . . . like a corporate response to a PR disaster.

Now whether there is real contrition there . . . ? Maybe. And while I agree with you about being defined by your worst moment and the rest in general, I believe that her actions indicate a belief that runs far deeper than just "privilege". She knew the implications of calling the police into action against an aggressive black man engaging in assault. She leveraged that reality in an attempt to threaten a black man which indicates she has no compassion for the person. I just don't think that kind of instinct is just a "whoops! That's not really me" kind of thing. That's the action with someone with engrained biases.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:21 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
For those criticizing the black man, what should bird watchers like him do?

How should he better handle owners who refuse to leash their dogs?

If you’re going to criticize, at least offer some sort of solution?

Ignore it and move on.


Turn in your man card!

I have wasted enough of my life already, but the absolute most pointless time I've ever spent is scolding strangers for being inconsiderate/violating norms/breaking petty laws/etc.


This is unintentional comedy gold. “I’ve wasted too much time scolding people for violating the rules, but I‘ve got plenty of time to scold people for scolding people who violate the rules”
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:19 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Charles Blow wrote an editorial on this kind of invective on NYT where he mentioned Emmett Till. This situation reminded me of Till's case when I heard of it although the outcomes were on different worlds. The woman who made the claims that got Till murdered said the most damning (for 1955 Mississippi) aspects were lies. She died without ever giving a fully truthful account of her role in the situation.


I remember Emmett Till vividly. His mother wanted to illuminate the viciousness of racism by having a OPEN CASKET funeral. The image is very graphic, NSFW. IIRC this image was posted in JET Magazine.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:


Her PR statement on Tuesday included:
Quote:
“I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone, especially to that man, his family,” she told the news station in a phone call. “It was unacceptable and I humbly and fully apologize to everyone who’s seen that video, everyone that’s been offended … everyone who thinks of me in a lower light and I understand why they do.”


Quote:
He had every right to request that I leash my dog in an area where it was required . . . I am well aware of the pain that misassumptions and insensitive statements about race cause and would never have imagined that I would be involved in the type of incident that occurred with Chris.

Simple enough.


A well crafted statement by her. I’ve been thinking lately about people who have been publicly shamed on the internet, and whether there is also a public path to redemption, or will they forever be tarnished with a Scarlett “I” for Internet shamed. Imagine being publicly defined by your worst moment.

Private paths to redemption are always a possibility, but public ones? I’m not so sure.


Operative word being "crafted". It's a statement that reeks of, "I need to say the right things" . . . like a corporate response to a PR disaster.

Now whether there is real contrition there . . . ? Maybe. And while I agree with you about being defined by your worst moment and the rest in general, I believe that her actions indicate a belief that runs far deeper than just "privilege". She knew the implications of calling the police into action against an aggressive black man engaging in assault. She leveraged that reality in an attempt to threaten a black man which indicates she has no compassion for the person. I just don't think that kind of instinct is just a "whoops! That's not really me" kind of thing. That's the action with someone with engrained biases.


That's why I posted
Quote:
A White privilege lesson learned, NO that's inbred

I agree her statement gave the air of being crafted.

The repercussions of her action may cause her to react differently if a similar situation arises but I don't think it will change how she really feels.

If Trump goes broke for his racism he may change his outward appearance but he'll still be the same ol Donny.

Again I say Chris took the high road.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:


Her PR statement on Tuesday included:
Quote:
“I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone, especially to that man, his family,” she told the news station in a phone call. “It was unacceptable and I humbly and fully apologize to everyone who’s seen that video, everyone that’s been offended … everyone who thinks of me in a lower light and I understand why they do.”


Quote:
He had every right to request that I leash my dog in an area where it was required . . . I am well aware of the pain that misassumptions and insensitive statements about race cause and would never have imagined that I would be involved in the type of incident that occurred with Chris.

Simple enough.


A well crafted statement by her. I’ve been thinking lately about people who have been publicly shamed on the internet, and whether there is also a public path to redemption, or will they forever be tarnished with a Scarlett “I” for Internet shamed. Imagine being publicly defined by your worst moment.

Private paths to redemption are always a possibility, but public ones? I’m not so sure.


Operative word being "crafted". It's a statement that reeks of, "I need to say the right things" . . . like a corporate response to a PR disaster.

Now whether there is real contrition there . . . ? Maybe. And while I agree with you about being defined by your worst moment and the rest in general, I believe that her actions indicate a belief that runs far deeper than just "privilege". She knew the implications of calling the police into action against an aggressive black man engaging in assault. She leveraged that reality in an attempt to threaten a black man which indicates she has no compassion for the person. I just don't think that kind of instinct is just a "whoops! That's not really me" kind of thing. That's the action with someone with engrained biases.


Agreed on all fronts. I guess I wonder though...if someone behaves badly, and truly is racist, or homophobic, or sexist, Etc., and deserves all the ridicule, but then after time (not after just being caught) realizes the error of their ways...in the internet age, I'm not sure there is a way back from that no matter how much the individual has changed. Those actions will follow you. I think it's very difficult to unring that bell. Need to keep you stuff together people.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 4:53 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:

Agreed on all fronts. I guess I wonder though...if someone behaves badly, and truly is racist, or homophobic, or sexist, Etc., and deserves all the ridicule, but then after time (not after just being caught) realizes the error of their ways...in the internet age, I'm not sure there is a way back from that no matter how much the individual has changed. Those actions will follow you. I think it's very difficult to unring that bell. Need to keep you stuff together people.


It is certainly harder for people Ms. Cooper because of the notoriety.
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 4:18 pm    Post subject:

I lifted this from my friend David Aldridge's Facebook post:

Quote:
She didn't say, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that YOU'RE threatening me." Which may have been what she felt was happening, albeit incorrectly and/or indirectly. Which would have left the police to, essentially, assess two people's versions of the truth, in real time. Which would have created an unnecessary, but relatively equal, dispute for the police to adjudicate: "he threatened me." "No, I didn't."

She didn't say, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that a MAN is threatening me." Which would have raised the level of alert in the police, to be sure, since the implication by calling 911 and saying that is that a woman may be in imminent physical peril, and requires immediate assistance. But even this could be, potentially, diffused if law enforcement arrived on the scene and sees visually that the man is not in close proximity to the woman and poses no immediate threat to her health or safety.

No. She said, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that an AFRICAN-AMERICAN man is threatening me." Which she knew to be the words that would put the man in the most immediate, and potentially lethal, peril. Which would compel him to immediately capitulate, and follow her orders (and which would, concurrently, allow her to continue to violate the park's rules)-or which would ultimately bring him to punishment, at her hand, at her say-so. Otherwise, why would she say it?

She made this decision in about a second and a half.

The decision was to weaponize race in the most pernicious way, to cause a black man the most harm possible in the shortest amount of time, for her immediate benefit, and hers alone. To engage the police, which she believed would come to HER rescue and not HIS. And she told him what she was going to do, knowing or at least assuming that she, and not he, would be believed. Because he had the temerity to challenge her, and then to record her, and then to disobey her demand that he stop, and then to not only ignore her demand, but defy it.

A second and a half.

Just consider how hard-wired something has to be in your consciousness, how deep in the marrow it has to be in a person, for them to make the instantaneous decision to say that, to instinctively reach for those words in a second and a half, less than a minute into a disagreement with someone they've never met and do not know.

And WE'RE playing the race card.
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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 5:16 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
I lifted this from my friend David Aldridge's Facebook post:

Quote:
She didn't say, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that YOU'RE threatening me." Which may have been what she felt was happening, albeit incorrectly and/or indirectly. Which would have left the police to, essentially, assess two people's versions of the truth, in real time. Which would have created an unnecessary, but relatively equal, dispute for the police to adjudicate: "he threatened me." "No, I didn't."

She didn't say, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that a MAN is threatening me." Which would have raised the level of alert in the police, to be sure, since the implication by calling 911 and saying that is that a woman may be in imminent physical peril, and requires immediate assistance. But even this could be, potentially, diffused if law enforcement arrived on the scene and sees visually that the man is not in close proximity to the woman and poses no immediate threat to her health or safety.

No. She said, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that an AFRICAN-AMERICAN man is threatening me." Which she knew to be the words that would put the man in the most immediate, and potentially lethal, peril. Which would compel him to immediately capitulate, and follow her orders (and which would, concurrently, allow her to continue to violate the park's rules)-or which would ultimately bring him to punishment, at her hand, at her say-so. Otherwise, why would she say it?

She made this decision in about a second and a half.

The decision was to weaponize race in the most pernicious way, to cause a black man the most harm possible in the shortest amount of time, for her immediate benefit, and hers alone. To engage the police, which she believed would come to HER rescue and not HIS. And she told him what she was going to do, knowing or at least assuming that she, and not he, would be believed. Because he had the temerity to challenge her, and then to record her, and then to disobey her demand that he stop, and then to not only ignore her demand, but defy it.

A second and a half.

Just consider how hard-wired something has to be in your consciousness, how deep in the marrow it has to be in a person, for them to make the instantaneous decision to say that, to instinctively reach for those words in a second and a half, less than a minute into a disagreement with someone they've never met and do not know.

And WE'RE playing the race card.


A brilliant summation of why Ms. Cooper's "apology" is meaningless after what she did. As I said before, this was not an "Ooops!" moment for her. This was her character coming to bare.
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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 7:53 pm    Post subject:

It reminds us that the Minneapolis cop is who she had in mind with her threat...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject:

David Aldridge is 100% correct

Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:47 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:

Agreed on all fronts. I guess I wonder though...if someone behaves badly, and truly is racist, or homophobic, or sexist, Etc., and deserves all the ridicule, but then after time (not after just being caught) realizes the error of their ways...in the internet age, I'm not sure there is a way back from that no matter how much the individual has changed. Those actions will follow you. I think it's very difficult to unring that bell. Need to keep you stuff together people.


It is certainly harder for people Ms. Cooper because of the notoriety.


We have seen people recover. It's going to be harder for her because of the timing. Maybe that helps her really understand what she did and why it was wrong. Then again maybe not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Surfitall wrote:

Agreed on all fronts. I guess I wonder though...if someone behaves badly, and truly is racist, or homophobic, or sexist, Etc., and deserves all the ridicule, but then after time (not after just being caught) realizes the error of their ways...in the internet age, I'm not sure there is a way back from that no matter how much the individual has changed. Those actions will follow you. I think it's very difficult to unring that bell. Need to keep you stuff together people.


It is certainly harder for people Ms. Cooper because of the notoriety.


We have seen people recover. It's going to be harder for her because of the timing. Maybe that helps her really understand what she did and why it was wrong. Then again maybe not.


Amy Cooper knows what she did, Amy Cooper knows what she did was wrong.

She called a element she felt would take "I'm going to tell them there's an African American man threatening my life adversely.

What she did was not wrong in her world but she should have known it may be wrong in the eyes of the world as a whole.

She's paying the consequences. She lost her job and may be considered a pariah by some. Will she be able to secure another job. Probably. Will she change her racist ways? I don't think so.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
It reminds us that the Minneapolis cop is who she had in mind with her threat...


It reminds me of my last visit to my hometown, some of my buddies growing up work at one of the local state penitentiary. I was stunned by the depth of their racism, they didn’t use to be that way. They would laugh about the way they treated the black prisoners like it was some kind of joke. Now that my grandma has passed on I will never set foot in that town again.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:37 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
I lifted this from my friend David Aldridge's Facebook post:

Quote:
She didn't say, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that YOU'RE threatening me." Which may have been what she felt was happening, albeit incorrectly and/or indirectly. Which would have left the police to, essentially, assess two people's versions of the truth, in real time. Which would have created an unnecessary, but relatively equal, dispute for the police to adjudicate: "he threatened me." "No, I didn't."

She didn't say, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that a MAN is threatening me." Which would have raised the level of alert in the police, to be sure, since the implication by calling 911 and saying that is that a woman may be in imminent physical peril, and requires immediate assistance. But even this could be, potentially, diffused if law enforcement arrived on the scene and sees visually that the man is not in close proximity to the woman and poses no immediate threat to her health or safety.

No. She said, "I'm going to call the police and tell them that an AFRICAN-AMERICAN man is threatening me." Which she knew to be the words that would put the man in the most immediate, and potentially lethal, peril. Which would compel him to immediately capitulate, and follow her orders (and which would, concurrently, allow her to continue to violate the park's rules)-or which would ultimately bring him to punishment, at her hand, at her say-so. Otherwise, why would she say it?

She made this decision in about a second and a half.

The decision was to weaponize race in the most pernicious way, to cause a black man the most harm possible in the shortest amount of time, for her immediate benefit, and hers alone. To engage the police, which she believed would come to HER rescue and not HIS. And she told him what she was going to do, knowing or at least assuming that she, and not he, would be believed. Because he had the temerity to challenge her, and then to record her, and then to disobey her demand that he stop, and then to not only ignore her demand, but defy it.

A second and a half.

Just consider how hard-wired something has to be in your consciousness, how deep in the marrow it has to be in a person, for them to make the instantaneous decision to say that, to instinctively reach for those words in a second and a half, less than a minute into a disagreement with someone they've never met and do not know.

And WE'RE playing the race card.


I agree with everything David Aldridge said, except for that last comment.

Sometimes, people do overplay the race card.

You can't use the actions of this one white woman to blanketly validate every instance of playing the race card as valid.


I may be wrong. I think that was meant to be a question. ? instead of .
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