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ChefLinda
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 Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | Here's a scenario (no identifications in regards to gender/race):
Someone's in the park relaxing. Someone else comes along, sit near the first person and sparks up a cigarette in a city that has a no smoking in public areas ordinance. The smoke is wafting into the first person's area.
Is person A going out of their way to be confrontational by asking the smoker to put out their cigarette or move on?
If you think that "yes, it is confrontational", explain how one person's ability to enjoy their day in the park is secondary to someone breaking the rules and infringing upon the other persons perfectly legitimate expectation that the rules be followed? |
Well, first of all, age, gender and physical differences would come into play.
Ultimately if I wanted to continue enjoying my day, and Person B refused to stop smoking, I'd just find some other location. Unless I really wanted to ramp the situation up, I wouldn't pose some ambiguous threat of "if you're going to keep smoking, I'm going to do something you might not like". I also wouldn't start filming them with my phone. I wouldn't do either of those things because I know it wouldn't help to diffuse the situation or lead to me being able to enjoy the rest of my day. |
You're also not a black man who had he not started recording might not have ever been believed when the white woman said he was threatening her safety. Right? |
The guidelines to this hypothetical specifically listed race as being a non-factor! But, no, I'm not.
What, in your opinion do you think was his purpose for filming though? Because at that point she hadn't threatened to call the cops. She had not used any racially charged language towards him. What was he going to use the video for, Social media shaming? |
Have you not been paying attention over the last few years of white people calling cops on black people for just being black? And the cops hurting/killing black men for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time? You can't completely ignore the racial context of these types of situations in our culture. Or I guess you can, but that would ignore the problem altogether. The fact that you really can't see how you might feel differently if you were in his shoes is actually part of the problem. We are trying to guide you into a different way of thinking. Sadly black people can't always take for granted what should be just an everyday interaction without playing defense. Recording is part of playing defense. |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | So, if his “threat” is so scary, why doesn’t she call the cops then? Why does she only threaten to call them and get in his face (not exactly fear there eh?) when he records her? She clearly tells him to stop recording her, and when he won’t do that she clearly tells him she will tell the police a black man is attacking her, and when he again won’t stop, she does exactly that. And again, she’s angry not scared. Which is why he has to tell her not to approach him while she’s wagging a finger in his face. |
Yup. If she were truly afraid she would have taken her dog and hightailed it out of there. She was angry because her veil of white privilege had been pierced. Her anger even superseded any care for her dog which she almost choked to death in her race to call the cops who she clearly believed would RESTORE her white privilege by siding with her and punish the black person who dared to make a simple request of her. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: |
The guidelines to this hypothetical specifically listed race as being a non-factor! But, no, I'm not.
What, in your opinion do you think was his purpose for filming though? Because at that point she hadn't threatened to call the cops. She had not used any racially charged language towards him. What was he going to use the video for, Social media shaming? |
Have you not been paying attention over the last few years of white people calling cops on black people for just being black? And the cops hurting/killing black men for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time? You can't completely ignore the racial context of these types of situations in our culture. Or I guess you can, but that would ignore the problem altogether. The fact that you really can't see how you might feel differently if you were in his shoes is actually part of the problem. We are trying to guide you into a different way of thinking. Sadly black people can't always take for granted what should be just an everyday interaction without playing defense. Recording is part of playing defense. |
Oh I'm aware of it. I just don't think every scenario leads to that. And really, his own version of it doesn't indicate that he was under the impression she was going to call the cops on him over simply asking her to leash the dog. He indicates he started taping after he attempted to entice the dog over to him and she reacted, as many people would, "get away from my dog"!
So, maybe you're right. Maybe he thought things were about to go south after she yelled at him (probably with that same "fearful" voice acting she uses with the cops). But my point is that it was his "Becky" or "Karen" like demands to adhere to park leash rules, that lead to this big racist reveal about her personality. Had he simply moved on or gone about it another way, she probably would have complied eventually.
Central Park this morning: This woman’s dog is tearing through the plantings in the Ramble.
ME: Ma’am, dogs in the Ramble have to be on the leash at all times. The sign is right there.
HER: The dog runs are closed. He needs his exercise.
ME: All you have to do is take him to the other side of the drive, outside the Ramble, and you can let him run off leash all you want.
HER: It’s too dangerous.
ME: Look, if you’re going to do what you want, I’m going to do what I want, but you’re not going to like it.
HER: What’s that?
ME (to the dog): Come here, puppy!
HER: He won’t come to you.
ME: We’ll see about that…
I pull out the dog treats I carry for just for such intransigence. I didn’t even get a chance to toss any treats to the pooch before Karen scrambled to grab the dog.
HER: DON’T YOU TOUCH MY DOG!!!!!
That’s when I started video recording with my iPhone, and when her inner Karen fully emerged and took a dark turn…
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: |
The guidelines to this hypothetical specifically listed race as being a non-factor! But, no, I'm not.
What, in your opinion do you think was his purpose for filming though? Because at that point she hadn't threatened to call the cops. She had not used any racially charged language towards him. What was he going to use the video for, Social media shaming? |
Have you not been paying attention over the last few years of white people calling cops on black people for just being black? And the cops hurting/killing black men for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time? You can't completely ignore the racial context of these types of situations in our culture. Or I guess you can, but that would ignore the problem altogether. The fact that you really can't see how you might feel differently if you were in his shoes is actually part of the problem. We are trying to guide you into a different way of thinking. Sadly black people can't always take for granted what should be just an everyday interaction without playing defense. Recording is part of playing defense. |
Oh I'm aware of it. I just don't think every scenario leads to that. And really, his own version of it doesn't indicate that he was under the impression she was going to call the cops on him over simply asking her to leash the dog. He indicates he started taping after he attempted to entice the dog over to him and she reacted, as many people would, "get away from my dog"!
So, maybe you're right. Maybe he thought things were about to go south after she yelled at him (probably with that same "fearful" voice acting she uses with the cops). But my point is that it was his "Becky" or "Karen" like demands to adhere to park leash rules, that lead to this big racist reveal about her personality. Had he simply moved on or gone about it another way, she probably would have complied eventually.
Central Park this morning: This woman’s dog is tearing through the plantings in the Ramble.
ME: Ma’am, dogs in the Ramble have to be on the leash at all times. The sign is right there.
HER: The dog runs are closed. He needs his exercise.
ME: All you have to do is take him to the other side of the drive, outside the Ramble, and you can let him run off leash all you want.
HER: It’s too dangerous.
ME: Look, if you’re going to do what you want, I’m going to do what I want, but you’re not going to like it.
HER: What’s that?
ME (to the dog): Come here, puppy!
HER: He won’t come to you.
ME: We’ll see about that…
I pull out the dog treats I carry for just for such intransigence. I didn’t even get a chance to toss any treats to the pooch before Karen scrambled to grab the dog.
HER: DON’T YOU TOUCH MY DOG!!!!!
That’s when I started video recording with my iPhone, and when her inner Karen fully emerged and took a dark turn…
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The point you keep missing is that she put his life in jeopardy by calling the cops. The same would not be true if he called the cops on her.
I know you're not that obtuse so you're not doing yourself any favors by pretending that they are both the same.
Even if you think they were both being jerks - the potential worst case scenario for him is literally losing his life when the cops show up. That was never true for her. Show me one Karen who got snuffed out by the cops? And how many innocent black men minding their own business got snuffed out by the cops? THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | This thread is uncovering the views of some. The closet door is cracked. Come out, come out, wherever you are! |
I'm just sitting here with my popcorn and Pepsi, watching the show. |
I prefer Heineken and Munchies Cheese Mix.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | Here's a scenario (no identifications in regards to gender/race):
Someone's in the park relaxing. Someone else comes along, sit near the first person and sparks up a cigarette in a city that has a no smoking in public areas ordinance. The smoke is wafting into the first person's area.
Is person A going out of their way to be confrontational by asking the smoker to put out their cigarette or move on?
If you think that "yes, it is confrontational", explain how one person's ability to enjoy their day in the park is secondary to someone breaking the rules and infringing upon the other persons perfectly legitimate expectation that the rules be followed? |
Well, first of all, age, gender and physical differences would come into play. |
So you'd handle the same situation differently based on someone's race (which you carefully avoided by calling "pohysical differences")?
Interesting. Care to describe the differences in how you would handle it if the offender were white versus if they were black?
| Quote: | | Ultimately if I wanted to continue enjoying my day, and Person B refused to stop smoking, I'd just find some other location. Unless I really wanted to ramp the situation up, I wouldn't pose some ambiguous threat of "if you're going to keep smoking, I'm going to do something you might not like". I also wouldn't start filming them with my phone. I wouldn't do either of those things because I know it wouldn't help to diffuse the situation or lead to me being able to enjoy the rest of my day. |
If I were black, I'd have my cell phone recording just about every public encounter that was in anyway unusual or confrontational. Just look at the Minneapolis situation or Auhmed Aubrey. Video was crucial is proving exactly what happened that would never have been known otherwise.
Anyway, in the case of the dog park, the guy is in a specific location for a reason, so just heading to a different area of the park may not be an option. And I see no reason to contend that the person refusing to leash their dog in an area where leashes are required should mean that someone in that specific place for a reason should just have to move along and end his activity to accommodate the inconsiderate person. He didn't act aggressively, he did nothing to intimidate the person, he took a dog treat and offered it to the dog as a way to passively get the person to comply. Did he escalate things when she refused even then? Nope.
There's a reason that people such as this woman behave as she did. It's called entitlement and privilege. She's refuses to leash her dog and reacts nastily to someone who dares to ask her to be considerate because she's gotten away with it before. There's nothing wrong with being the person who says, "not today lady".
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: |
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
Yeah, that's not what I'm dong. At no time did I put their actions on equal footing. I said he was acting like a "Karen" because he was overly policing a minor park rule. Your attention seems to be diverted because you're incapable of holding different, non contradictory views at the same time. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Both of these people are deranged. |
Oddest comment in the whole thread. |
You're really into leash laws. |
Naw, it's about the asinine characterizations like the one you made. |
It's narc behavior over birdwatching escalated into a threat of "swating" by an entitled racist. This is all normal to you? |
"Narc behavior". 
He didn't call the cops to have her cited for breaking the leash law. He didn't attempt to place her under citizen's arrest. He made a request that she follow the guidelines so that he and others could enjoy the area and so that her dog wouldn't damage the vegetation that makes it an attractive location for birds.
You know what's not normal to me (or to any person interested in reasonable discussion)? Someone calling that "deranged".
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | So, if his “threat” is so scary, why doesn’t she call the cops then? Why does she only threaten to call them and get in his face (not exactly fear there eh?) when he records her? She clearly tells him to stop recording her, and when he won’t do that she clearly tells him she will tell the police a black man is attacking her, and when he again won’t stop, she does exactly that. And again, she’s angry not scared. Which is why he has to tell her not to approach him while she’s wagging a finger in his face. |
You're missing the point man. That narcy black man was clearly deranged. She wouldn't have had to exert her sense of white privilege to assert her anger if he'd have just shut up and complied with her birth right to be inconsiderate.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | What, in your opinion do you think was his purpose for filming though? Because at that point she hadn't threatened to call the cops. She had not used any racially charged language towards him. What was he going to use the video for, Social media shaming? |
You clearly have not been paying attention to society.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Both of these people are deranged. |
Oddest comment in the whole thread. |
You're really into leash laws. |
Naw, it's about the asinine characterizations like the one you made. |
It's narc behavior over birdwatching escalated into a threat of "swating" by an entitled racist. This is all normal to you? |
"Narc behavior".
He didn't call the cops to have her cited for breaking the leash law. He didn't attempt to place her under citizen's arrest. He made a request that she follow the guidelines so that he and others could enjoy the area and so that her dog wouldn't damage the vegetation that makes it an attractive location for birds.
You know what's not normal to me (or to any person interested in reasonable discussion)? Someone calling that "deranged". |
And she refused.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
Yeah, that's not what I'm dong. At no time did I put their actions on equal footing. I said he was acting like a "Karen" because he was overly policing a minor park rule. Your attention seems to be diverted because you're incapable of holding different, non contradictory views at the same time. |
Still calling him a Karen (that's where you are trying to put them on equal footing) is precisely where you demonstrate your complete lack of understanding about the racial context. "Karen's" have white privilege which they are asserting and abusing. He has no "white privilege" so trying to call him a Karen is you erasing the real Karen's core racism. I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who is having trouble understanding complex issues.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Wed May 27, 2020 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Had he simply moved on or gone about it another way, she probably would have complied eventually. |
Yeah . . . right. That's hilarious. A women who behaves like that is going to suddenly think, "you know what. He's right . . ."
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
Yeah, that's not what I'm dong. At no time did I put their actions on equal footing. I said he was acting like a "Karen" because he was overly policing a minor park rule. Your attention seems to be diverted because you're incapable of holding different, non contradictory views at the same time. |
When you attempt to place him as the cause for her outrageous behavior, that's exactly what you are doing.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
Yeah, that's not what I'm dong. At no time did I put their actions on equal footing. I said he was acting like a "Karen" because he was overly policing a minor park rule. Your attention seems to be diverted because you're incapable of holding different, non contradictory views at the same time. |
When you attempt to place him as the cause for her outrageous behavior, that's exactly what you are doing. |
It reminds me of the right-wing blaming Obama for today's racism. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
Yeah, that's not what I'm dong. At no time did I put their actions on equal footing. I said he was acting like a "Karen" because he was overly policing a minor park rule. Your attention seems to be diverted because you're incapable of holding different, non contradictory views at the same time. |
This is a case of you don't have the right to deny my rights. I have the right to bird watch in a bird watching area. You don't have the right to unleash a animal in a leashed area. If you see something, say something.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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So, if his “threat” is so scary, why doesn’t she call the cops then? Why does she only threaten to call them and get in his face (not exactly fear there eh?) when he records her? She clearly tells him to stop recording her, and when he won’t do that she clearly tells him she will tell the police a black man is attacking her, and when he again won’t stop, she does exactly that. And again, she’s angry not scared. Which is why he has to tell her not to approach him while she’s wagging a finger in his face.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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A: "Hey, stop smoking weed in the park."
B: "No. Leave me alone."
A: additional rationale
B: ongoing refusal
A: "Alright, let me just get out my phone and start filming our interaction..."
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: |
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If someone allows their dog to crap on your lawn, is it "narc behavior" or "over-policing" for you to ask the owner to pick it up?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | If someone allows their dog to crap on your lawn, is it "narc behavior" or "over-policing" for you to ask the owner to pick it up? |
Of course not. You very reasonably ask me to pick it up and I refuse. What do you do next?
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
Yeah, that's not what I'm dong. At no time did I put their actions on equal footing. I said he was acting like a "Karen" because he was overly policing a minor park rule. Your attention seems to be diverted because you're incapable of holding different, non contradictory views at the same time. |
Still calling him a Karen (that's where you are trying to put them on equal footing) is precisely where you demonstrate your complete lack of understanding about the racial context. "Karen's" have white privilege which they are asserting and abusing. He has no "white privilege" so trying to call him a Karen is you erasing the real Karen's core racism. I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who is having trouble understanding complex issues. |
My god, what are we doing here? |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: |
THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT THE SAME AND YOU CAN'T PUT THEIR ACTIONS ON EQUAL FOOTING. To continue to try to assert this is to divert attention away from the core issue - HER RACISM.
Your take is horrible. Awful. Putrid. |
Yeah, that's not what I'm dong. At no time did I put their actions on equal footing. I said he was acting like a "Karen" because he was overly policing a minor park rule. Your attention seems to be diverted because you're incapable of holding different, non contradictory views at the same time. |
Still calling him a Karen (that's where you are trying to put them on equal footing) is precisely where you demonstrate your complete lack of understanding about the racial context. "Karen's" have white privilege which they are asserting and abusing. He has no "white privilege" so trying to call him a Karen is you erasing the real Karen's core racism. I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who is having trouble understanding complex issues. |
My god, what are we doing here? |
Trying to expose how deeply embedded racism is in the American psyche? |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67805
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | If someone allows their dog to crap on your lawn, is it "narc behavior" or "over-policing" for you to ask the owner to pick it up? |
Of course not. You very reasonably ask me to pick it up and I refuse. What do you do next? |
Take a picture of you, your dog and the poop. Give them to authorities and post them on social media.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | If someone allows their dog to crap on your lawn, is it "narc behavior" or "over-policing" for you to ask the owner to pick it up? |
Of course not. You very reasonably ask me to pick it up and I refuse. What do you do next? |
Take a picture of you, your dog and the poop. Give them to authorities and pot them on social media. |
How far would you follow me to take a picture of me and my dog?
_________________
Under New Management |
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jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67805
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | If someone allows their dog to crap on your lawn, is it "narc behavior" or "over-policing" for you to ask the owner to pick it up? |
Of course not. You very reasonably ask me to pick it up and I refuse. What do you do next? |
Take a picture of you, your dog and the poop. Give them to authorities and pot them on social media. |
How far would you follow me to take a picture of me and my dog? |
Wouldn't have to follow you, do it on the spot.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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