Ahmaud Arbery Shooting
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 8:36 am    Post subject:

Both murders rested on the assumption by armed men that an unarmed black man was up to no good when he wasn’t, and their need to take action about it. Trying to figure out whether Martin was winning the fight that resulted from Zimmerman stalking him or whether Arbery was trying to take the shotgun from the man who attacked him is ridiculously missing that point.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject:

In the same State Shannon Brown shoots at people who enter his home and is immediately arrested. It was the result of a misunderstanding but there were no DAs bogging the arrest warrant down.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject:

What will come of this? Did he know the shooter? I wonder what caused the family to ask the person who filmed the incident be investigated?

Man who took video of Ahmaud Arbery's shooting will also be investigated, Georgia official says

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An attorney for Arbery's family has called for William "Roddie" Bryan, the man who filmed the incident, to be arrested. Reynolds said investigators are looking into that.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:04 am    Post subject:

Turns out the video was leaked by an attorney friendly with the shooters because he thought it would clear them (because the victim tried to take the gun from one man and the other had to shoot him). You can’t make this (bleep) up.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject:

We are living in a awful awful world, RIP.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
What will come of this? Did he know the shooter? I wonder what caused the family to ask the person who filmed the incident be investigated?

Man who took video of Ahmaud Arbery's shooting will also be investigated, Georgia official says

LINK

Quote:

An attorney for Arbery's family has called for William "Roddie" Bryan, the man who filmed the incident, to be arrested. Reynolds said investigators are looking into that.


I’ve always suspected that the person who shot it was working with the father and son to track down Ahmaud and was shooting in case something happened. It’s the only feasible reason I can see someone having their phone out and recording.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 12:29 pm    Post subject:

No burglaries were reported in neighborhood where Ahmaud Arbery was killed, contradicting suspects’ claim: report

An explanation for the Ahmaud Arbery killing became shakier on Friday.

The two Georgia men who were caught on video shooting the unarmed jogger to death in February claim they were chasing a suspect behind a series of burglaries in the area. But a local police official said the last break-in the neighborhood was reported nearly two months before the shooting.

The last known burglary in the neighborhood happened on Jan. 1, more than seven weeks before the Feb. 23 incident that ended Arbery’s life at the age of 25, Glynn County Police Lt. Cheri Bashlor told CNN on Friday.

The New Year Day’s police report states that a 9-mm. pistol was stolen from an unlocked truck outside the home of Gregory and Travis McMichael, the father and son who on Thursday were charged with murder.

Gregory McMichael had been involved in a previous investigation of Arbery.


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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject:

It's Georgia a state were racism is overt. I realize hate crimes are very difficult to prove. Has there been a rush to judgment?

My immediate thought was a race crime. I consider that a hate crime. IMO if the crime had been committed in a state with hate crime laws it would be pursued as such.

White men accused of killing Ahmaud Arbery won't face Georgia hate crime charges. Here's why.

LINK

Quote:
That's because Georgia is one of four states in the U.S. that doesn't have a hate crimes prevention law, according to the Department of Justice. If someone commits a crime motivated by bias, statewide authorities are unable to pursue additional charges or enhanced penalties for the perpetrator.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
No burglaries were reported in neighborhood where Ahmaud Arbery was killed, contradicting suspects’ claim: report


The New Year Day’s police report states that a 9-mm. pistol was stolen from an unlocked truck outside the home of Gregory and Travis McMichael, the father and son who on Thursday were charged with murder.




I have no idea what the law is but this should be a serious crime to leave your functional firearm inside your unlocked car.. The rest of us should not suffer because some humans choose not to evolve.

What they should do is force the father to drive Ahmaud's mom while they chase his son firing off shots and then when he comes near to ask her to stop firing... she stops and then he goes to the hospital and then off to the Pen and his dad goes to prison also. He can live in protective custody.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject:

More at link

Recused DA responds to claims she blocked arrests in Ahmaud Arbery case

Quote:

Under Georgia law, the District Attorney has no arrest powers. Rather, it is the duty and obligation of the law enforcement officer to determine probable cause for arrest. The District Attorney is available to advise on the law. Our District Attorney's office’s willingness to assist law enforcement officers on matters of law is now being used by the Glynn County Police Department as an excuse to pass the buck and fail to act.

When two Assistant District Attorneys were contacted by the Glynn County Police Department on February 23, 2020, they immediately cited a conflict of interest and stated our office could not be involved. Our office offered to facilitate getting assistance from another District Attorney's office.

At no time on February 23, 2020, did District Attorney Jackie Johnson have any conversation with any Glynn County police officer about this case. Further, no Assistant District Attorney in the office directed any Glynn County police officer not to make an arrest.

While our office did assist in putting the Glynn County Police Department in contact with the District Attorney in the Waycross Circuit, we did not direct his actions or appoint him to the case. Rather, that was done by the Attorney General's Office of the State of Georgia. Our office made the Attorney General aware of our conflict and recusal by letter on February 25, 2020.

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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Both murders rested on the assumption by armed men that an unarmed black man was up to no good when he wasn’t, and their need to take action about it. Trying to figure out whether Martin was winning the fight that resulted from Zimmerman stalking him or whether Arbery was trying to take the shotgun from the man who attacked him is ridiculously missing that point.


Yes, I would think generally you are going to try and take the gun away from whoever is pointing and shooting it at you. This story is crazy, like something out of 1962 Mississippi or something. What the hell.
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:34 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Both murders rested on the assumption by armed men that an unarmed black man was up to no good when he wasn’t, and their need to take action about it. Trying to figure out whether Martin was winning the fight that resulted from Zimmerman stalking him or whether Arbery was trying to take the shotgun from the man who attacked him is ridiculously missing that point.


Shocker....you take my post out of context to meet your daily quota of virtue signaling. Was I trying to figure out who was winning the fight? No, I was explicit in that I was not telling anyone what was fact....only what was presented in the case and "partially" corroborated by witnesses. I went out of my way to make it clear I was not expressing a personal opinion or trying to persuade anyone's opinion of what was true or false. More dishonesty in your response insinuating that I was making a case about taking the shotgun away from the shooter....it was clear to any objective reader that I was projecting the case his attorney's would likely try to make as an effort to get off or at least reduce the charges....and again, I explicitly stated that I did not think that course of argument would be successful. I know the Martin/Zimmerman case inside and out....I have walked the grounds that the entire event took place at...and even resided in that small gated community for a short period about a year before the shooting immediately following my divorce. It is one of the most falsely cited cases in regards to what took place (or at least what was presented in court) in my lifetime. I am not missing the point, the cases are nothing alike from a legal standpoint. In the future, tell me I am wrong all you wish....heck, even make false statements about and event or legal case, but again I ask that you to not intentionally mischaracterize my posts.
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:44 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
It's Georgia a state were racism is overt. I realize hate crimes are very difficult to prove. Has there been a rush to judgment?

My immediate thought was a race crime. I consider that a hate crime. IMO if the crime had been committed in a state with hate crime laws it would be pursued as such.

White men accused of killing Ahmaud Arbery won't face Georgia hate crime charges. Here's why.

LINK

Quote:
That's because Georgia is one of four states in the U.S. that doesn't have a hate crimes prevention law, according to the Department of Justice. If someone commits a crime motivated by bias, statewide authorities are unable to pursue additional charges or enhanced penalties for the perpetrator.


Was the crime committed because of racism, or at least driven by racism. Maybe, but there is nothing that has been made public that would provide evidence to support a hate crime. Maybe more information will come to light that does provide that evidence...and if so, I think the Federal Government could charge? I do think there has been a reckless jump to suggest the original case was slow walked or mishandled because of "racism". From everything I have seen, my assumption is that if there was a reluctance to charge the two men, it was a case of protecting one of their own....as in a former police officer who everyone involved appeared to know. My guess is if it was a poor white young man, the two assailants would have got a very similar treatment if in fact people were trying to make the case go away. Honestly, they probably would have been more successful if it was a poor white guy because it may not have got the national attention that appears to have been needed to hold someone accountable. Sure there is racism in many small towns....but in 2020 my belief there is far more law enforcement corruption when it involves "connected" people in the town.
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Both murders rested on the assumption by armed men that an unarmed black man was up to no good when he wasn’t, and their need to take action about it. Trying to figure out whether Martin was winning the fight that resulted from Zimmerman stalking him or whether Arbery was trying to take the shotgun from the man who attacked him is ridiculously missing that point.


Shocker....you take my post out of context to meet your daily quota of virtue signaling. Was I trying to figure out who was winning the fight? No, I was explicit in that I was not telling anyone what was fact....only what was presented in the case and "partially" corroborated by witnesses. I went out of my way to make it clear I was not expressing a personal opinion or trying to persuade anyone's opinion of what was true or false. More dishonesty in your response insinuating that I was making a case about taking the shotgun away from the shooter....it was clear to any objective reader that I was projecting the case his attorney's would likely try to make as an effort to get off or at least reduce the charges....and again, I explicitly stated that I did not think that course of argument would be successful. I know the Martin/Zimmerman case inside and out....I have walked the grounds that the entire event took place at...and even resided in that small gated community for a short period about a year before the shooting immediately following my divorce. It is one of the most falsely cited cases in regards to what took place (or at least what was presented in court) in my lifetime. I am not missing the point, the cases are nothing alike from a legal standpoint. In the future, tell me I am wrong all you wish....heck, even make false statements about and event or legal case, but again I ask that you to not intentionally mischaracterize my posts.


I wasn’t actually judging what you thought of guilt or innocent. Merely that both were cases of armed men hunting black men because they were sure they were up to no good and who got shot not because they actually were, but because the armed men brought the altercation to them. So I believe that they are similar and that they are commonly interpreted as having some gray area that really doesn’t exist. Someone brought up Trayvon, you commented, I commented that your comments that they were dissimilar or that there was even really any merit in whether Trayvon was kicking his ass at some point were wrong imo. What did I misrepresent?
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 8:43 pm    Post subject:

LG thread calling Zimmerman a hero

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=163119&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:54 am    Post subject:

This Arbery case, unless I am completely missing something, is not the same as the Zimmerman/Martin case. Not every case is the same, and you do have to look at each case, well, on a case-by-case basis. The fact is that the Trayvon Martin shooting never should have been prosecuted as a murder case; the evidence simply didn't support a conviction for murder. I watched that trial closely (you can do that when you don't have a day job) and it was stunning to me how easily the defense was able to create doubt at almost every turn. I'm not even sure if the state proved a preponderance of the evidence, to be honest. I think time has more than proven that Zimmerman is a bigoted POS, if there were any doubts about that during the trial. But it became pretty clear as the trial was wrapping up that the state wasn't going to get a conviction. Virtually all of the legal experts were saying as much, and even President Carter agreed with the verdict at the end. Angela Corey should have directed a prosecution for a lesser charge like manslaughter, which is what Corey actually added in at practically the last minute of the proceedings. This obviously reeked of desperation. In fact, the defense got the lead detective, under cross, to admit that he thought Zimmerman's account was basically truthful (at least as it related to the physical confrontation, if not the particulars about why Zimmerman got out of his car in the first place), and that he didn't believe murder charges were appropriate and that he thought it was a manslaughter case. Any lawyer will tell you that this was particularly stunning to hear; it was a bombshell in court.

With this Arbery killing, I mean, it's on video. We don't have to paint a picture. The picture is there. I only watched it once and I can't bring myself to look at it ever again. I don't see how there's much doubt about this one. If anyone wants to actually defend the actions of the father and son, I will not watch the video again to try to refute anything. Just too disturbing for me.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:13 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
It's Georgia a state were racism is overt. I realize hate crimes are very difficult to prove. Has there been a rush to judgment?

My immediate thought was a race crime. I consider that a hate crime. IMO if the crime had been committed in a state with hate crime laws it would be pursued as such.

White men accused of killing Ahmaud Arbery won't face Georgia hate crime charges. Here's why.

LINK

Quote:
That's because Georgia is one of four states in the U.S. that doesn't have a hate crimes prevention law, according to the Department of Justice. If someone commits a crime motivated by bias, statewide authorities are unable to pursue additional charges or enhanced penalties for the perpetrator.


Was the crime committed because of racism, or at least driven by racism. Maybe, but there is nothing that has been made public that would provide evidence to support a hate crime. Maybe more information will come to light that does provide that evidence...and if so, I think the Federal Government could charge? I do think there has been a reckless jump to suggest the original case was slow walked or mishandled because of "racism". From everything I have seen, my assumption is that if there was a reluctance to charge the two men, it was a case of protecting one of their own....as in a former police officer who everyone involved appeared to know. My guess is if it was a poor white young man, the two assailants would have got a very similar treatment if in fact people were trying to make the case go away. Honestly, they probably would have been more successful if it was a poor white guy because it may not have got the national attention that appears to have been needed to hold someone accountable. Sure there is racism in many small towns....but in 2020 my belief there is far more law enforcement corruption when it involves "connected" people in the town.


Por que no los dos?
Racism and law enforcement corruption go together like PB&J.

I struggle to understand what you get from roleplaying a defensive attorney for people who shoot and kill unarmed black men. I mean you never say the shooters are innocent, but you definitely poke holes when it comes to their guilt.

It's just a hobby I don't understand. But maybe it's linked to why people get away with it in the south as much as they do.

The victim being black did garner it more attention. But I'm sure if the victim could go back and be white for the final minutes of his life so he doesn't get shot in the first place. He'd prefer that option. Same for Trayvon.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 7:43 am    Post subject:

So are the father/son lawyers trying to break this into 2 different cases?

1) Father/son erroneously hunted down and tried to apprehend someone whom they thought was a burglar.

and

2) Father in defense of his son shot a man who was struggling to take a rifle from his son?


I can see why the lawyers would try and break this down this way. 1st case was a poor decision to take the law into their hands, and the 2nd was an act of self defense. (total BS)

I mean I think we can all see that this was most likely a racially motivated event. Now I understand that has to be proven in a court of law.

But what was the father/son end game in all of this? Have they said what their plan was once apprehending the victim?
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:13 am    Post subject:

Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
So are the father/son lawyers trying to break this into 2 different cases?

1) Father/son erroneously hunted down and tried to apprehend someone whom they thought was a burglar.

and

2) Father in defense of his son shot a man who was struggling to take a rifle from his son?


I can see why the lawyers would try and break this down this way. 1st case was a poor decision to take the law into their hands, and the 2nd was an act of self defense. (total BS)

I mean I think we can all see that this was most likely a racially motivated event. Now I understand that has to be proven in a court of law.

But what was the father/son end game in all of this? Have they said what their plan was once apprehending the victim?


It will certainly be interesting to see how it plays out legally for the reasons you mention. But one thing that ties the two together is that the father was a willing part of the original act of hunting him down. So while the father can claim he was simply defending his son, the only reason he was doing so was because he was joining him in the crime. If two family members rob a bank and a security guard goes to shoot one of them and the other kills the securioty guard, "self-defense" is a non-starter defense.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:40 am    Post subject:

A case of unprovable racism and police cover-up. Bottom line, another unarmed Black shot and killed by a White who will most likely get away with it.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
This Arbery case, unless I am completely missing something, is not the same as the Zimmerman/Martin case. Not every case is the same, and you do have to look at each case, well, on a case-by-case basis. The fact is that the Trayvon Martin shooting never should have been prosecuted as a murder case; the evidence simply didn't support a conviction for murder. I watched that trial closely (you can do that when you don't have a day job) and it was stunning to me how easily the defense was able to create doubt at almost every turn. I'm not even sure if the state proved a preponderance of the evidence, to be honest. I think time has more than proven that Zimmerman is a bigoted POS, if there were any doubts about that during the trial. But it became pretty clear as the trial was wrapping up that the state wasn't going to get a conviction. Virtually all of the legal experts were saying as much, and even President Carter agreed with the verdict at the end. Angela Corey should have directed a prosecution for a lesser charge like manslaughter, which is what Corey actually added in at practically the last minute of the proceedings. This obviously reeked of desperation. In fact, the defense got the lead detective, under cross, to admit that he thought Zimmerman's account was basically truthful (at least as it related to the physical confrontation, if not the particulars about why Zimmerman got out of his car in the first place), and that he didn't believe murder charges were appropriate and that he thought it was a manslaughter case. Any lawyer will tell you that this was particularly stunning to hear; it was a bombshell in court.

With this Arbery killing, I mean, it's on video. We don't have to paint a picture. The picture is there. I only watched it once and I can't bring myself to look at it ever again. I don't see how there's much doubt about this one. If anyone wants to actually defend the actions of the father and son, I will not watch the video again to try to refute anything. Just too disturbing for me.


The same part is the presumption by an armed man to go do something about an unarmed black man who is doing a totally mundane legal activity, which leads to an altercation and the death of the black man. The presumption, and how natural it is to white people, that a black man jogging or a black teenager returning home from the store, is inherently worthy of suspicion, and worse, armed intrusion. And then there’s always the search for reasonable self defense. An attorney literally thought that video of a murder victim fighting for the gun would clear his attacker. Just as you constantly hear the Martin ambushed him and he had to defend himself line. One is visually true and the other is certainly possible, but both cases came about from the reckless vigilante actions of the armed men.

We discussed the Martin case at length here, and there was an acknowledgement that Florida’s stand your ground law and the lack of other witnesses made it hard to get a conviction, and manslaughter was probably the right call (there was also the fact that the prosecution didn’t really want to win the case). But we also recognized how easy it was to see zimmerman’s motive and his reckless disregard for his and Martin’s safety. The police dispatcher even told him not to get out of his car for that very reason. But like the Arbery case, he was armed and he was gonna take care of business himself. And while the legal definition may not end up at murder, he cost a young man everything because of his bigoted macho racist fantasies. And in a moral sense, that’s a murder.
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject:

^
Yes, but for Zimmerman's action of getting out of his car, the whole thing would have been avoided. Still, there was no evidence presented at trial that he got out of the car intending to harm Martin. No evidence that he drew his gun at Martin when he approached him. I really don't want to re-hash that case any further than I already have. We know what happened, and I think that you would at least agree that he had a reasonable legal defense.

With this Arbery case, I don't see how a self-defense claim here is reasonable for this father and son. I don't know how one can look at that and say "oh, there's reasonable doubt here as to what happened." Sometimes, there is, like with the Zimmerman case and the Michael Brown shooting. I'm just saying that the Zimmerman case is not the Arbery case, just as the Michael Brown case is not the Eric Garner or the Philando Castile case.

Oh, and to be clear, no one has to convince me of the rampant racism and gross miscarriages of justice that occur in this country on a daily basis. That said, I still believe in evaluating things on a case-by-case basis. I don't believe all women though I believe most of them, and I don't believe most police officers though I believe some of them. I try to look at each case and weigh the evidence for myself. I don't just automatically assume something because of generalizations, or even my own general prejudices. (I've just admitted that I generally have a poor view of the police telling the truth, for example.)
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:17 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
Yes, but for Zimmerman's action of getting out of his car, the whole thing would have been avoided. Still, there was no evidence presented at trial that he got out of the car intending to harm Martin. No evidence that he drew his gun at Martin when he approached him. I really don't want to re-hash that case any further than I already have. We know what happened, and I think that you would at least agree that he had a reasonable legal defense.

With this Arbery case, I don't see how a self-defense claim here is reasonable for this father and son. I don't know how one can look at that and say "oh, there's reasonable doubt here as to what happened." Sometimes, there is, like with the Zimmerman case and the Michael Brown shooting. I'm just saying that the Zimmerman case is not the Arbery case, just as the Michael Brown case is not the Eric Garner or the Philando Castile case.

Oh, and to be clear, no one has to convince me of the rampant racism and gross miscarriages of justice that occur in this country on a daily basis. That said, I still believe in evaluating things on a case-by-case basis. I don't believe all women though I believe most of them, and I don't believe most police officers though I believe some of them. I try to look at each case and weigh the evidence for myself. I don't just automatically assume something because of generalizations, or even my own general prejudices. (I've just admitted that I generally have a poor view of the police telling the truth, for example.)


Is Stalking legal?
If I find you stalking me I will be genetically forced into fight or flight
If I am 100% sure you are stalking me and I have no escape route I lack options
Call the cops? Nope, I am black
Beat your ass? If you are stalking me you deserve it because you are threatening my safety.

How was Zimmerman not threatening Martins safety?
How was Martin threatening Zimmermans safety

Which came first?


Were Martin or Arbery threatening Zimmerman or the McMichaels
Were Zimmerman or McMichaels in any imminent danger whatsoever?
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:55 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
Yes, but for Zimmerman's action of getting out of his car, the whole thing would have been avoided. Still, there was no evidence presented at trial that he got out of the car intending to harm Martin. No evidence that he drew his gun at Martin when he approached him. I really don't want to re-hash that case any further than I already have. We know what happened, and I think that you would at least agree that he had a reasonable legal defense.

With this Arbery case, I don't see how a self-defense claim here is reasonable for this father and son. I don't know how one can look at that and say "oh, there's reasonable doubt here as to what happened." Sometimes, there is, like with the Zimmerman case and the Michael Brown shooting. I'm just saying that the Zimmerman case is not the Arbery case, just as the Michael Brown case is not the Eric Garner or the Philando Castile case.

Oh, and to be clear, no one has to convince me of the rampant racism and gross miscarriages of justice that occur in this country on a daily basis. That said, I still believe in evaluating things on a case-by-case basis. I don't believe all women though I believe most of them, and I don't believe most police officers though I believe some of them. I try to look at each case and weigh the evidence for myself. I don't just automatically assume something because of generalizations, or even my own general prejudices. (I've just admitted that I generally have a poor view of the police telling the truth, for example.)


I understand you, and I agree he was able to mount a reasonable defense. But you were responding to the idea that these incidents are not similar strictly from that viewpoint. I’m saying they are similar because in both cases armed men felt justified to stalk and go after unarmed black men.
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Mark_in_Tulsa
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
^
Yes, but for Zimmerman's action of getting out of his car, the whole thing would have been avoided. Still, there was no evidence presented at trial that he got out of the car intending to harm Martin. No evidence that he drew his gun at Martin when he approached him. I really don't want to re-hash that case any further than I already have. We know what happened, and I think that you would at least agree that he had a reasonable legal defense.

With this Arbery case, I don't see how a self-defense claim here is reasonable for this father and son. I don't know how one can look at that and say "oh, there's reasonable doubt here as to what happened." Sometimes, there is, like with the Zimmerman case and the Michael Brown shooting. I'm just saying that the Zimmerman case is not the Arbery case, just as the Michael Brown case is not the Eric Garner or the Philando Castile case.

Oh, and to be clear, no one has to convince me of the rampant racism and gross miscarriages of justice that occur in this country on a daily basis. That said, I still believe in evaluating things on a case-by-case basis. I don't believe all women though I believe most of them, and I don't believe most police officers though I believe some of them. I try to look at each case and weigh the evidence for myself. I don't just automatically assume something because of generalizations, or even my own general prejudices. (I've just admitted that I generally have a poor view of the police telling the truth, for example.)


I understand you, and I agree he was able to mount a reasonable defense. But you were responding to the idea that these incidents are not similar strictly from that viewpoint. I’m saying they are similar because in both cases armed men felt justified to stalk and go after unarmed black men.


... Waits for NRA to say we need to start arming black men....
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