The Bulls and the Last dance
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:18 pm    Post subject: The Bulls and the Last dance

I’m not gonna lie I haven’t watched it you guys think it’s worth it?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:29 pm    Post subject:

I also haven't watched it course I grew up in Bulls Country in the 90s and rather not relive that nightmare. Reggie Miller feels the same (about not watching it)

I know Kobe is in it but still no (and well it would be hard to watch him now even if I wanted to)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:14 pm    Post subject:

Couldn't care less about the Bulls...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:22 am    Post subject:

I'm watching and am loving every second of it. The Bulls were one of the team most of us mid 80s European kids grew up with, simply because they were on TV the majority of the time. MJ was truly larger than life. Great documentary.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:02 am    Post subject:

So far, the documentary has been great. You get to see the inner turmoil and politics within the Bulls organization, and MJ's rise to the top. Recent episodes covered the circus that Rodman brought to the Bulls team, and how they were able to manage that. The documentary is already way better than "Kobe Doin' Work," and i hope they make a similar/better one covering Kobe's last season.

Edit: Btw, the episodes that will air this Sunday will feature Kobe in some of the footage, so i'm definitely looking forward to watching episodes 5-6.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
So far, the documentary has been great. You get to see the inner turmoil and politics within the Bulls organization, and MJ's rise to the top. Recent episodes covered the circus that Rodman brought to the Bulls team, and how they were able to manage that. The documentary is already way better than "Kobe Doin' Work," and i hope they make a similar/better one covering Kobe's last season.

Edit: Btw, the episodes that will air this Sunday will feature Kobe in some of the footage, so i'm definitely looking forward to watching episodes 5-6.


I like how they structured the storylines. Its very well done and each episode goes into a backstory of a player on the team.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject:

I hated the Bulls. I hated Jordan. If they could edit it down to 2 hours, I might watch it. I don't think the whole story is compelling enough to waste more than 10 hours on it. Meh.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
I hated the Bulls. I hated Jordan. If they could edit it down to 2 hours, I might watch it. I don't think the whole story is compelling enough to waste more than 10 hours on it. Meh.


I hated the Bulls/Jordan too but am still loving this documentary. Hated the Pistons even more than the Bulls so it put a smile on my face watching the Bulls get over the hump on them again in the most recent episode.

What did irk me was the revisionist history in how they showed the Bulls/Lakers final going down. No mention whatsoever of the James Worthy or Byron Scott injuries - all the focus was on glorifying Jordan and how great Pippen was in locking Magic down. If Worthy had been healthy, Pippen never switches to guard Magic and that series is a whole 'nother story... Lakers win a close but competitive series on experience IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
I hated the Bulls. I hated Jordan. If they could edit it down to 2 hours, I might watch it. I don't think the whole story is compelling enough to waste more than 10 hours on it. Meh.


I doubt I'd watch it if it was 2 hours but I agree this isn't worthy of a 10 part documentary if this is about the last season.

If there's a Kobe version I hope they wait a decade to release it too soon to do it now.

If anything I rather see a Phil Jackson documentary that would be worthy of 10 parts or in his case 13(for each ring he won).

Not only did he have to deal with MJ/Pippen/Rodman but he had to deal with Shaq/Kobe with Lamar and Artest thrown in..
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:53 pm    Post subject:

I might watch it eventually. Maybe. Doubtful tho. Lol
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:30 am    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
Couldn't care less about the Bulls...


I stopped following the NBA in the 90's after Bulls won over the Lakers in 1991, except for the 2 baseball years.
But I watched the 4 episodes so far. I have more respect for Phil and Tex now.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:51 pm    Post subject:

Jordan and the Bulls are so overrated. They simply lucked in at the right time and place... just after the 80s dynasties faded with no other teams ready to give them some true competition.
I'd say theres atleast 5 different teams that could have came through history, replaced that Bulls team, and got 6 championships in that same time-span.
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:42 pm    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
So far, the documentary has been great. You get to see the inner turmoil and politics within the Bulls organization, and MJ's rise to the top. Recent episodes covered the circus that Rodman brought to the Bulls team, and how they were able to manage that. The documentary is already way better than "Kobe Doin' Work," and i hope they make a similar/better one covering Kobe's last season.

Edit: Btw, the episodes that will air this Sunday will feature Kobe in some of the footage, so i'm definitely looking forward to watching episodes 5-6.
although they followed kobe around with a film crew for his last 2 seasons, it will feel somewhat hollow because lets be honest, kobe was a shell of his former self. He wasn't dominant. he wasn't winning. a documentary covering abysmal losing seasons where kobe didnt do much isn't going to excite although people will watch since its kobe. I get it. i wish instead it were a 2 year period anywhere from 2000 - 2010.
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject:

I hated the Bulls as a little kid, but the documentary has been OK. I think I knew much of what they talked about just from avidly reading about NBA history, but there's some new stuff that maybe we didn't know about.

It would be 10X cooler if they did a long documentary like this on the Showtime Lakers. From what I've read, that team was far more important to the NBA becoming what it is nowadays than Jordan's Bulls.
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:34 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
I hated the Bulls. I hated Jordan. If they could edit it down to 2 hours, I might watch it. I don't think the whole story is compelling enough to waste more than 10 hours on it. Meh.


After I watched the first 2 episodes I was disappointed that I couldn’t watch another 2 hours. That’s how good I thought it was. I hated the Bulls too, but I stopped hating them as much when Phil went to LA.

The players sure liked picking on Krause though. But I can see why they couldn’t stand him.


Last edited by Steve007 on Sun May 03, 2020 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:39 am    Post subject:

Osei wrote:
What did irk me was the revisionist history in how they showed the Bulls/Lakers final going down. No mention whatsoever of the James Worthy or Byron Scott injuries - all the focus was on glorifying Jordan and how great Pippen was in locking Magic down. If Worthy had been healthy, Pippen never switches to guard Magic and that series is a whole 'nother story... Lakers win a close but competitive series on experience IMO.


That part bothered me too. It’s been something the media has repeated over and over. They always mention Scottie guarding Magic and called it the turning point in the series. But Pippen could have guarded anybody and the Bulls weren’t losing once Worthy went out.
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Wilt wrote:
I hated the Bulls. I hated Jordan. If they could edit it down to 2 hours, I might watch it. I don't think the whole story is compelling enough to waste more than 10 hours on it. Meh.


After I watched the first 2 episodes I was disappointed that I couldn’t watch another 2 hours. That’s how good I thought it was. I hated the Bulls too, but I stopped hating them as much when Phil went to LA.

The players sure liked picking on Krause though. But I can see why they couldn’t stand him.


I can see why Krause gets no love since he basically dismantled their team and the Bulls haven't gone anywhere close to their former glory. The way it works these days is that old dynasties lose on the court and go their separate ways while a new contender takes the throne. That never happened to those Bulls.
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 11:47 am    Post subject:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/mccurdy-heres-a-little-known-michael-jordan-story-you-wont-see-on-espns-documentary/ar-BB13vfeB?li=BBnb7Kz

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McCurdy: Here's a little-known Michael Jordan story you won't see on ESPN's documentary

There's a part of Michael Jordan's story that likely won't make the cut in ESPN's 10-hour documentary "The Last Dance" that is holding America's attention captive each Sunday night this spring.

We know Jordan is arguably the greatest basketball player of all time from his six championship seasons with the Chicago Bulls. We know he's a hard-wired competitor who hates to lose — at anything. We know he's the ultimate corporate pitchman and an iconic symbol from his long association with Nike and its Jumpman logo. We know he's a business mogul and is the first NBA player to be the primary owner a franchise, leading the Charlotte Hornets. We know he's among the most famous people walking Earth.


But did you know Michael Jordan loved motorcycles and racing so much that he started a motorsports team that competed for a decade in America's top road racing series?

Unless, you're an AMA Pro Road Racing fan going back two decades or you're a regular at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course, probably not.

Yet it's a fascinating story.

Jordan grew up in NASCAR country in North Carolina, so like many from the South, he enjoyed watching racing and learned to appreciate it. Also as a kid, the Jordans had a little dirt bike for Michael and his brothers, and he loved the speed and freedom he felt from racing it around.

But when he became a professional athlete, his contracts forbade him from riding.

In the 1990s and early 2000s, there was an underground motorcycle culture in Chicago. Riders would get together in packs late at night and race around the city's avenues and freeways until the wee hours of the morning while traffic was light.

One night one of those groups passed a guy riding a Ducati on the highway before they all exited for a gas station. When the Ducati followed them in and he took off his helmet, they knew it wasn't an ordinary rider.

"It's an unbelievable story," Casmay said in 2004. "A guy from ESPN Magazine came to do a story, and the first thing he said was, 'You don't meet Michael Jordan at a gas station, so how do you meet him?' I said, 'Well, actually that's the way we met.' He couldn't believe it."

Actually Casmay couldn't believe it either.

"You want to meet him, but what do you say that's worth saying to him?" he said.

One of the riders in the pack met Jordan years earlier when his uncle worked security for Bulls teammate Dennis Rodman. So he went over to Jordan and told him to ditch the Nike sweatsuit, sneakers and weight lifting gloves and start wearing real riding attire like leathers, boots and riding gloves to be safer. He also gave Jordan his card and told him to call if he ever wanted to go riding with the group.

Two days later, the riders had a new member.

"It became almost a nightly thing," Casmay said.

Jordan was new at riding and told Casmay that he wanted to learn from the best. Casmay turned to his friend Montez Stewart, a street riding legend in Chicago who had just started a budding road racing career on the club circuits.

"I rode on the streets with him for a little while, and he was impressed with the way I rode. I told him we needed to go to a race track and then you could see what we really do," Stewart said.

In September of 2003, just months after his final basketball retirement with the Washington Wizards, Jordan rented Blackhawk Farms Raceway in Illinois.

"I told him, 'I know people approach you with all sorts of craziness all the time, but what I know is you're stepping into my arena. This is what I do. I can teach you and show you what to do, but you've got to listen and take it serious because it's so easy to go out and hurt yourself,'" Stewart said.

He found a willing pupil in Jordan.

"I'm sure there are a lot of things he couldn't do because of basketball contracts. He's always loved motorcycles, and he's always wanted to ride. He was retired, so why not enjoy the fruits of his labor?" Stewart said.



Video by TODAY
He showed Jordan how to take a knee while cornering and even saw Jordan spring up after laying down the bike.

"The bug bit him and he was ready to go after that," Stewart said.

Not long after that adventure, Stewart got a call from Jordan asking for a meeting where they discussed Stewart's racing career and the constant search for money to do it competitively.

Afterward, Stewart called Casmay and asked for his help in drafting a proposal for Jordan's people since Casmay had a business background as a manager for Nestle Chocolate and as an owner of his own investment company. Within a month, they were in business.

Michael Jordan Motorsports was born.

Stewart moved up to the highest ranks of professional motorcycle road racing in America; Casmay was living his dream by heading up the new racing enterprise; and Jordan's brand and his associated sponsors had a chance to reach a new market and demographics.

However, finding success on the track proved elusive.

Normally it takes a year to start a team from scratch. Jordan did it in less than two months. Stewart was a 31-year-old rookie going against legacies and kids who literally started riding as soon as they could walk. And being a novice in a paddock filled with factory-backed outfits, well-funded satellite teams and seasoned privateers didn't help the cause.

At the Honda Super Cycle Weekend hosted by Mid-Ohio in July of 2004, Stewart went one lap in the Superstock race before a mechanical problem ended his ride. That was more than he got out of the Supersport race where he crashed out in the first turn.

"I think there's pressure on any guy with any sponsor because they want their stuff to shine," Stewart said before that long ago race weekend. "The one thing (Jordan) told me is, 'Tez, you're the underdog so go out there and shock some people and do what you can do.'"

At the 2004 season opener in Daytona, Jordan showed off his new enterprise to his agent David Falk, old Bulls teammate Charles Oakley and officials with Nike and Gatorade who were on board with the venture.

"He said he wished he'd gotten into this a long time ago. When we rode back on the plane, he said that was one of the best experiences he's ever had," Stewart said.

By the next year, Jordan's competitive nature got to him and he became serious about the venture.

"Last year, Michael had no idea what he was getting into. He was just helping a buddy out and having some fun," veteran rider Josh Hayes said. "He went to a lot of races, listened to everybody, picked their brains for information and realized this is a great sport."

Jordan dumped the underperforming Yamahas for Suzuki, the dominant manufacturer during that time. He also brought in seasoned road racing pros Jason Pridmore and Steve Rapp to add to Stewart.

Over the next several seasons, former champions like Aaron Yates, Ben Bostrom and Jake Zemke plus younger stars like Roger Lee Hayden and Danny Eslick would also ride in the Jumpman leathers, enjoying podium finishes and race wins. Yates brought a Superstock championship to the team in 2008; Corey Alexander earned a SuperSport East title in 2013; and Zemke gave MJM its first Superbike win in 2010 — the highest level of the series.

If not for the unsettled nature of American road racing in the mid-2010s, Jordan might still be competing. Instead, with crowds waning and TV broadcasts fleeting, he shuttered the team in 2014.

It may not match what he did on the basketball court, but nevertheless, Jordan left a lasting legacy in motorcycle racing.

And to think it all came to be because of a chance encounter at a Chicago gas station. It's a fascinating story worthy of an 11th hour.
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:24 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:

I can see why Krause gets no love since he basically dismantled their team and the Bulls haven't gone anywhere close to their former glory. The way it works these days is that old dynasties lose on the court and go their separate ways while a new contender takes the throne. That never happened to those Bulls.


MJ and Pippen looked like bullies making fun of a short, fat guy in front of people. There were times when I can see why MJ seems embarrassed today about some of his behavior back then.

But because of Krause we’ll never know how many rings the Bulls would have won. Scottie Pippen thinks they would have won 2 more (this assumes Phil stayed that long).
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 6:28 pm    Post subject:

I love all the behind the scenes footage that I have never seen before.

Jordan overall comes off at unlikable to me, but he wasn't in it to make friends.
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:56 pm    Post subject:

Players talking about Kobe before the all-star game:

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 9:05 am    Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3PFC6GBKWg

Good interview this morning with Dan Patrick and the director of "The Last Dance". He indicates that the next episodes will touch on the rumors surrounding Jordan's first retirement.

He also says that while Jordan had complete control over editing, he didn't exercise that power on anything.
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject:

I watched a good portion of it which included the demise of the Bulls dynasty.
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject:

"Nice game Mike".....is all it took to set MJ off.
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject:

Totally forgot Chris Mullin was on that 1997-98 Pacers team.
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