question about facemasks
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject: question about facemasks

1. how many people did you seen wearing a facemask in public today?

2. how do you feel about wearing a facemask?


my answers:

1. 1 yesterday. have not gone out today since i worked 99% at home (used to be 90%).

2. i know risk is pretty low now, but i would wear it in a market even though i live in a relatively remote town by the ocean. i dont wear one yet because i dont want to trigger someone who does not like asians or takes offense to it.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject:

It's not that the risk is low, it's that a mask does next to nothing.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
It's not that the risk is low, it's that a mask does next to nothing.


i think that is misinformation.
there is a good reason why governments want the masks.
now you also have to have eye protection and wash your hands...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:35 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
It's not that the risk is low, it's that a mask does next to nothing.


i think that is misinformation.
there is a good reason why governments want the masks.
now you also have to have eye protection and wash your hands...


Let's put it this way, it's like a mask when you go scuba diving. If offers some protection, but not even close to enough. Just watch someone who is wearing a mask. Not a trained health care professional, just a normal person. Watch them for 2 minutes and see how many times they touch their faces either to adjust the mask or to make sure its in place.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
It's not that the risk is low, it's that a mask does next to nothing.


i think that is misinformation.
there is a good reason why governments want the masks.
now you also have to have eye protection and wash your hands...


Let's put it this way, it's like a mask when you go scuba diving. If offers some protection, but not even close to enough. Just watch someone who is wearing a mask. Not a trained health care professional, just a normal person. Watch them for 2 minutes and see how many times they touch their faces either to adjust the mask or to make sure its in place.


say if it reduces risks by 50% compared to without it, it is worth the trouble to me.

of course one would have to learn how to use a mask properly.
lots of instruction on the web
such as:


it could be just as simple as put on mask before getting out of car, go in market, buy stuff, go back in car, take off mask.
20 minutes of self control not to touch your face etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject:

Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:52 pm    Post subject:

XTC wrote:
Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/


interesting. what about against placebo if available?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:01 pm    Post subject:

And just to further my point about facemasks....

[url=https://apnews.com/fe0239e95b8ad1037639ed833b990e48]
Tests show new virus lives on some surfaces for up to 3 days[/url]
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XTC
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
XTC wrote:
Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/


interesting. what about against placebo if available?


It appears to be specifically randomization and non-placebo since the alteration of the N95 or surgical mask would affect efficacy.

Quote:
Randomization was performed centrally by an independent clinical trials coordinating group such that investigators were blind to the randomization procedure and group assignment and was stratified by center in permuted blocks of 4 participants. It was not possible to conceal the identity of the N95 respirator or the surgical mask since manipulating these devices would interfere with their function.
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XTC
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
And just to further my point about facemasks....

[url=https://apnews.com/fe0239e95b8ad1037639ed833b990e48]
Tests show new virus lives on some surfaces for up to 3 days[/url]


This was the latest study (also posted in the other thread) where researchers found that the virus can linger in the air for hours. It may explain why a number of passengers directly behind a recent confirmed case got infected. As for masks, the JAMA study does seem to suggest there is some benefit to wearing medical masks, if properly worn.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
And just to further my point about facemasks....

[url=https://apnews.com/fe0239e95b8ad1037639ed833b990e48]
Tests show new virus lives on some surfaces for up to 3 days[/url]


how is this even relevant to facemasks.
dump clothes into the hamper when you get home.
then wash your face and your hands when you reach ur destination.

this is like politician trying to calm the masses talk about # of total deaths vs. the flu.
they avoid talking about the death rate compared to the flu.
or the exponential rate of increase that leaves little time to respond when it shows up near the end.
pretty much what fox news was running up to a couple days ago, and even then there is so much spin to encourage people to spend money and go outside.
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:40 pm    Post subject:

It has always made me uncomfortable when I see people in facemasks.

Though it has been commonplace in Asia for sometime, it isn't commonplace (though become more so) in the US yet but I am never sure if the person is wearing it because they are sick or if they are trying to avoid getting sick.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:42 pm    Post subject:

XTC wrote:
Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/


Don't suppose there was a control group with no mask. That's how everyone is telling us to roll right now.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
It has always made me uncomfortable when I see people in facemasks.

Though it has been commonplace in Asia for sometime, it isn't commonplace (though become more so) in the US yet but I am never sure if the person is wearing it because they are sick or if they are trying to avoid getting sick.



that is why i have not been wearing it and that risk have been low.
i think with the europe travel ban, people would be more accepting of protective measure.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:03 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
It's not that the risk is low, it's that a mask does next to nothing.


Depends on the mask.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:19 pm    Post subject:

wow, just heard someone in our little town is being tested for covid19.
time to wear a mask at the market.
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XTC
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:31 pm    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:


Don't suppose there was a control group with no mask. That's how everyone is telling us to roll right now.


It seems they're just trying to preserve the very limited supply of masks for the health-care workers on the front lines; if the gen public starts hording them like hand sanitizers, isopropyl alcohol, there will be issues.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:07 pm    Post subject:

I work in the medical field and all medical supply companies are sold out of masks, sanitizers, wipes and disinfectant sprays. Puts the vulnerable and health care workers in danger.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:42 pm    Post subject:

chickenjoy24 wrote:
I work in the medical field and all medical supply companies are sold out of masks, sanitizers, wipes and disinfectant sprays. Puts the vulnerable and health care workers in danger.


n95 masks are for sale in amazon from early feb to late feb. even surgical grade ones were available for at least 2 weeks.

seems like hospitals were asleep at the helm just like the american fda that cannot get its test kits done correctly.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:32 am    Post subject:

XTC wrote:
Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/


This is the kind of stuff that just confuses me. Not saying this study isn’t legit, but then we have infectious disease experts like Michael Osterholm saying the N95 mask is “very effective” (but not the surgical mask).
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:51 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
XTC wrote:
Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/


This is the kind of stuff that just confuses me. Not saying this study isn’t legit, but then we have infectious disease experts like Michael Osterholm saying the N95 mask is “very effective” (but not the surgical mask).

Means that most healthcare providers doesn't adhere to strict no taking off mask and no touching face... that's why the type of masks don't matter, my 2 pennies
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
XTC wrote:
Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/


This is the kind of stuff that just confuses me. Not saying this study isn’t legit, but then we have infectious disease experts like Michael Osterholm saying the N95 mask is “very effective” (but not the surgical mask).


Osterholm has commented in the past about the weakness of surgical masks in Wuhan when a doctor got infected wearing full PPE and surgical mask (no N95 masks). Given the amount of time the doctor had exposure, (assuming 14-18 hour shifts or longer due to the heavy volume of patients with the virus), it’s not surprising the surgical masks would begin to fail. Had the study been conducted under that kind of usage,I imagine the results would reflect a different outcome.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:13 am    Post subject:

It's not black or white. Even when not worn correctly, they do SOMETHING. When worn correctly, even if the user is not trained & used to not touching face, etc., they do more. And when worn & used correctly, they do more still, but that's still not complete protection, nor a substitute for taking other measures.

Is the average, untrained person going to prevent an illness that he/she otherwise would have caught without the mask? It will happen, but not to a statistically significant degree. At that point you weigh other factors, like the effect on the supply for those who really do need them.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:29 am    Post subject:

XTC wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
XTC wrote:
Just did a quick search, there's this one study @JAMA that looked into N95 masks vs medical masks:

Quote:
N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel
A Randomized Clinical Trial

Key Points

Question Is the use of N95 respirators or medical masks more effective in preventing influenza infection among outpatient health care personnel in close contact with patients with suspected respiratory illness?

Findings In this pragmatic, cluster randomized clinical trial involving 2862 health care personnel, there was no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among health care personnel with the use of N95 respirators (8.2%) vs medical masks (7.2%).

Meaning As worn by health care personnel in this trial, use of N95 respirators, compared with medical masks, in the outpatient setting resulted in no significant difference in the rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214/


This is the kind of stuff that just confuses me. Not saying this study isn’t legit, but then we have infectious disease experts like Michael Osterholm saying the N95 mask is “very effective” (but not the surgical mask).


Osterholm has commented in the past about the weakness of surgical masks in Wuhan when a doctor got infected wearing full PPE and surgical mask (no N95 masks). Given the amount of time the doctor had exposure, (assuming 14-18 hour shifts or longer due to the heavy volume of patients with the virus), it’s not surprising the surgical masks would begin to fail. Had the study been conducted under that kind of usage,I imagine the results would reflect a different outcome.


Yeah. He recently commented on the ineffectiveness of surgical masks but characterized N95 masks as “very effective”.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:30 am    Post subject:

My girlfriend works at a retirement center.. 32yrs old.. just trying not to think about it much...
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