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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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 Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | ^ Maybe, just maybe, being youngens and all, that having a regular and consistent routine would have been helpful in achieving a consistent outcome. |
Yup. It’s ironic that analytics are supposed to put players in the position where they are most likely to succeed. Seems like we’ve done the opposite for May and Gonsolin in the playoffs. They just got way too cute with their roles in the playoffs and Gonsolin/May just haven’t been able to adjust. This reminds me of the Pederson to first base experiment that backfired last year.
However, with that being said, we have to deal with the fact that we can’t depend on Gonsolin/May for this series. They’re just both out of whack/in a funk right now.
Game 6 is looking scary when/if we get there. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| i agreed with the poster saying our front office dropped the ball by not pursuing that elusive 3rd starter before the deadline. Friedman has the habit of cold feet some times. he has to remember this franchise and its fanbase has been waiting for 32 years. it's not like our nucleus of players are full of superstars (except maybe Buhler), nor they are all in their prime. chance of competing for a WS title will be few and far in between going forward, why not going all in like the Lakers did with the AD trade. another front line starter has been missing from this team for the last few seasons already. |
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1995Lakers
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Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4519
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:08 am Post subject: |
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I trust Dave to see what I see that is the correct way to see him for what he is: Dustin May is not ready and should not touch the mound again because his mental toughness is horrifically lacking. There is no scheduling or anything that could have helped that guy this year. He is a mental shrimp: that simple.
As for Gonsolin, his mental isnt all that strong either but he can at least show some semblance of executing his pitches semi-consistently.
You cant make excuses for these guys. Have all of you forgotten BRYCE WILSON?????? How much experience did that guy have? But looking at his body language and how he was executing his pitches, that is called poise. Gonsolin and especially May are mental weaklings. |
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1995Lakers
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Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4519
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ^ Maybe, just maybe, being youngens and all, that having a regular and consistent routine would have been helpful in achieving a consistent outcome. |
Yup. It’s ironic that analytics are supposed to put players in the position where they are most likely to succeed. Seems like we’ve done the opposite for May and Gonsolin in the playoffs. They just got way too cute with their roles in the playoffs and Gonsolin/May just haven’t been able to adjust. This reminds me of the Pederson to first base experiment that backfired last year.
However, with that being said, we have to deal with the fact that we can’t depend on Gonsolin/May for this series. They’re just both out of whack/in a funk right now.
Game 6 is looking scary when/if we get there. |
Game 6 is not that scary even if we use a pen game. trust Tony to get 2-3 innings after a 4 day rest and cut May from ever stepping on the mound and use our high leverage guys while seeing Snell a 2nd time (the first time was pretty bad and we still got him out in less than 5). We are fine. This series is ours to lose |
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oasisdude77
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 2737
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I saw someone mention a good point on Twitter that the Rays were fortunate by the schedule to have an extra day off between game 7 of the ALCS and the WS.
That one extra day for us could've been huge. But oh well.
I know people mention that Freidman erred by not adding a starting pitcher at the deadline. As if it's that easy. Given his history, I'm sure he looked but there wasn't a deal to be had, most likely.
Giving up Stripling doesn't look good in hindsight, but there's a reason hindsight has 20/20 vision. May and Gonsolin were looking great during the season. May was making big league hitters such as Machado look absolutely silly. Though I have to admit it is funny (and by funny, I mean freaking annoying!) that year after year of having like 7 guys capable of starting, we now only have 3. Though 3 is really all you need in a 7 game series.
All in all, perspective guys. Just last week, we were down 3-1 and trailing midway in game 5. We're now sitting in the WS tied at 1 with our 3 top guys going. |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Not a fan of throwing away games but I'm not worried. Offense still performed against their vaunted pitching staff. On a usual night, 4 runs should be enough, but Dave's mismanagement of the pen cost us. Probably pulled Floro too early and definitely pulled Tony too early. But we also didn't use any of our top arms - no Treinen, Graterol, Baez, etc. All these guys get even more rest.
We are really lined up well for the next three games.
Buehler on full rest v. Morton. Morton is a tough sumofabish and really, really owned us in 2017. But he's gettable. The Morton pitch that used to really, really kill Cody and Corey - offspeed low and in - doesn't get them to bite anymore. And we owe him for 2017. Coming off of a loss, with a whole day for the team to fester and be annoyed with themselves, has me confident.
Julio on full rest v. Rays bullpen/Yarborough. Julio is a gamer. We'll have a rested bullpen behind him (unless 2020 game 3 is a repeat of 2018).
Kersh on full rest v. Glasnow. Doubt Glasnow fares better with our team having a second look at him. He is maybe baseball's most overrated pitcher. Great stuff, zero execution. At this stage, he is still a thrower, not a pitcher. Kersh on full rest versus a lineup he's already carved up . . . I'll take it.
The offense is still fine. 12 runs in two games is great, with 8 of those runs coming against solid Rays arms. Corey is still locked in. You know Mookie is going to come out and execute. Smith is locked in. Taylor is locked in. Joc still has a couple bombs left in the tank. JT is still JT. Kike has a homer left in the tank.
Do I want to effectively give up a game in the world series? No. But with some better timed moves and a bit more luck, we take last night's game. This is Lakers-Heat esque. To win, the Rays have to be flawless - their starter needs to shut us down, their relatively anemic offense needs to overperform, and they need our guys to hit bullets right at them. They did that - we underperformed - and we were still a couple swings, a couple liners from tying it up.
With our best arms coming up, I expect the Rays offense to stay around the 2-4 runs a game mark. And with some of their worst arms coming - sans Morton - I expect our usual 5+ run production.
This is our series to lose.
Last edited by Cutheon on Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Not to be rude but anyone mentioning Stripling needs to check themselves a bit. Dude had nothing all year. His 5+ era is not what we need, lol. |
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oasisdude77
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | Not to be rude but anyone mentioning Stripling needs to check themselves a bit. Dude had nothing all year. His 5+ era is not what we need, lol. |
Oh I agree and not saying he was/is the answer.
He'd likely be another one wed' be moaning about...lol
I'm ok with the use of May/Gonsolin as they've proven their stuff is electric. They just need to execute. |
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1995Lakers
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Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4519
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | Not a fan of throwing away games but I'm not worried. Offense still performed against their vaunted pitching staff. On a usual night, 4 runs should be enough, but Dave's mismanagement of the pen cost us. Probably pulled Floro too early and definitely pulled Tony too early. But we also didn't use any of our top arms - no Treinen, Graterol, Baez, etc. All these guys get even more rest.
We are really lined up well for the next three games.
Buehler on full rest v. Morton. Morton is a tough sumofabish and really, really owned us in 2017. But he's gettable. The Morton pitch that used to really, really kill Cody and Corey - offspeed low and in - doesn't get them to bite anymore. And we owe him for 2017. Coming off of a loss, with a whole day for the team to fester and be annoyed with themselves, has me confident.
Julio on full rest v. Rays bullpen/Yarborough. Julio is a gamer. We'll have a rested bullpen behind him (unless 2020 game 3 is a repeat of 2018).
Kersh on full rest v. Glasnow. Doubt Glasnow fares better with our team having a second look at him. He is maybe baseball's most overrated pitcher. Great stuff, zero execution. At this stage, he is still a thrower, not a pitcher. Kersh on full rest versus a lineup he's already carved up . . . I'll take it.
The offense is still fine. 12 runs in two games is great, with 8 of those runs coming against solid Rays arms. Corey is still locked in. You know Mookie is going to come out and execute. Smith is locked in. Taylor is locked in. Joc still has a couple bombs left in the tank. JT is still JT. Kike has a homer left in the tank.
Do I want to effectively give up a game in the world series? No. But with some better timed moves and a bit more luck, we take last night's game. This is Lakers-Heat esque. To win, the Rays have to be flawless - their starter needs to shut us down, their relatively anemic offense needs to overperform, and they need our guys to hit bullets right at them. They did that - we underperformed - and we were still a couple swings, a couple liners from tying it up.
With our best arms coming up, I expect the Rays offense to stay around the 2-4 runs a game mark. And with some of their worst arms coming - sans Morton - I expect our usual 5+ run production.
This is our series to lose. |
We think exactly alike. hell even our last sentence from my post and yours is exactly the same. |
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12205
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | Not a fan of throwing away games but I'm not worried. Offense still performed against their vaunted pitching staff. On a usual night, 4 runs should be enough, but Dave's mismanagement of the pen cost us. Probably pulled Floro too early and definitely pulled Tony too early. But we also didn't use any of our top arms - no Treinen, Graterol, Baez, etc. All these guys get even more rest.
We are really lined up well for the next three games.
Buehler on full rest v. Morton. Morton is a tough sumofabish and really, really owned us in 2017. But he's gettable. The Morton pitch that used to really, really kill Cody and Corey - offspeed low and in - doesn't get them to bite anymore. And we owe him for 2017. Coming off of a loss, with a whole day for the team to fester and be annoyed with themselves, has me confident.
Julio on full rest v. Rays bullpen/Yarborough. Julio is a gamer. We'll have a rested bullpen behind him (unless 2020 game 3 is a repeat of 2018).
Kersh on full rest v. Glasnow. Doubt Glasnow fares better with our team having a second look at him. He is maybe baseball's most overrated pitcher. Great stuff, zero execution. At this stage, he is still a thrower, not a pitcher. Kersh on full rest versus a lineup he's already carved up . . . I'll take it.
The offense is still fine. 12 runs in two games is great, with 8 of those runs coming against solid Rays arms. Corey is still locked in. You know Mookie is going to come out and execute. Smith is locked in. Taylor is locked in. Joc still has a couple bombs left in the tank. JT is still JT. Kike has a homer left in the tank.
Do I want to effectively give up a game in the world series? No. But with some better timed moves and a bit more luck, we take last night's game. This is Lakers-Heat esque. To win, the Rays have to be flawless - their starter needs to shut us down, their relatively anemic offense needs to overperform, and they need our guys to hit bullets right at them. They did that - we underperformed - and we were still a couple swings, a couple liners from tying it up.
With our best arms coming up, I expect the Rays offense to stay around the 2-4 runs a game mark. And with some of their worst arms coming - sans Morton - I expect our usual 5+ run production.
This is our series to lose. |
We think exactly alike. hell even our last sentence from my post and yours is exactly the same. |
I may have read that line before I posted, idk.  |
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73126
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Tough loss but it was part of the bigger plan in this series.
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FernieBee
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Joined: 17 Nov 2003
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Location: 921SD
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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The Dodgers can win 1, lose 1...all the way to a 2020 World Series title.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| FernieBee wrote: | The Dodgers can win 1, lose 1...all the way to a 2020 World Series title.
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Let's not cut it that close  . Gimme 3 blowout wins in a row please.
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16208
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | ^ Maybe, just maybe, being youngens and all, that having a regular and consistent routine would have been helpful in achieving a consistent outcome. |
Yup. It’s ironic that analytics are supposed to put players in the position where they are most likely to succeed. Seems like we’ve done the opposite for May and Gonsolin in the playoffs. They just got way too cute with their roles in the playoffs and Gonsolin/May just haven’t been able to adjust. This reminds me of the Pederson to first base experiment that backfired last year.
However, with that being said, we have to deal with the fact that we can’t depend on Gonsolin/May for this series. They’re just both out of whack/in a funk right now.
Game 6 is looking scary when/if we get there. |
| Quote: | Rookie Tony Gonsolin, throwing on two days rest, gave up a first-inning home run to Brandon Lowe. Going only 1 1/3 innings brought his postseason ERA up to 9.39. In nine regular season games, eight of them starts and all on four or five days rest, he posted a 2.31 ERA.
His fellow rookie Dustin May, also on two days rest, gave up four runs in 1 1/3 innings. He has yet to throw more than two innings, either starting or in relief, across six appearances this postseason, twice pitching on one day of rest and twice more on three days rest. He has a 5.00 ERA in October after a regular season in which he posted a 2.57 ERA across 12 games, 10 starts, all on four or five days rest.
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| Quote: | Asked if he was putting his young pitchers in a position to succeed, manager Dave Roberts credited their accountability, acknowledged that it was uncharted territory, and ultimately said, “That's a question for them.”
Gonsolin, for his part, called it a learning experience. “Doing new things, you know, starting or whatever, and throwing within like three days, or whatever,” a seemingly worn down Gonsolin told reporters postgame. |
Yup, I don't know why they just put Gonsolin and May in such different roles in the playoffs. If this was how they wanted to use them during the playoffs, they should have prepared them for this role during the season. Especially when we were running away with the division.
People bring up Maeda, but remember, they usually switch Maeda onto a bullpen/relief role around September so that he can be better prepared for the role come playoffs. |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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I still don’t see anything wrong with his game 2 strategy, ie. using Gonsolin and May rather than one of his better pitchers on short rest. That would have been a panic move imo, something Mattingly would have done with Kershaw or Buehler.
Ensuring our best 3 guys are getting their normal off days is more important than winning game 2 — it gives us our best chance to win 3 games rather than betting big early which could screw up not only game 2 but game 3 or 4 as well. Imagine if we threw Buehler on short rest and we lost? That’s not worth the risk. Considering we have the better team we don’t have to take those gambles, that’s something the underdogs do because it’s their only chance (Nats last year).
I think the only real criticism was leaving May in, because even though 5 runs is something this team can get back in an inning or two, 3 runs would’ve made the game a hell of a lot more winnable. And had we gotten the lead I think Dave might have shut it down with Urias, but since we weren’t winning there was no reason to use him. It was a good move, steal this game if you can but if not then we’re set to be favored in the next 3. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13243
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | FernieBee wrote: | The Dodgers can win 1, lose 1...all the way to a 2020 World Series title.
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Let's not cut it that close . Gimme 3 blowout wins in a row please. |
I want to see a 4-1 series win too, with Kershaw closing it out with a win in game 5 to take his 2020 postseason record to 4-1 this year. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | That misses the point (that I just explained). |
So, can’t even answer a simple yes or no whether you want us to use 2018 n 2019?
Can’t even say yes or no?
It’s your position, it’s your rules.
We just want to be clear on the parameters of the discussion...
Yes or no isn’t that hard to answer right?
Because in 2 separate posts, you do contradict yourself, so it’s only fair to be clear on the parameters, no? |
Did you see the post mentioning Verlander going 0-6 in the World Series? I don’t see you criticizing that poster for “leaving info out.”
You’re probably just pulling my leg though. You never respond to my stuff about Jansen either. And you’re not asking a real question.
Oh no! Someone mentioned Verlander being 0-6 in the World Series without mentioning other playoff stats! Numbers are being excluded!! |
Well, it’s totally up to you. It’s an extremely simple yes or no question. Either you want to answer or not but it really does help other people out in following the discussion with you.
Seems you’re unwilling to answer the question which then makes things really unclear and confusing.
In one post you say DON’T USE 2018 n 2019 numbers but then in another post, you’re willing to use the same numbers that you tell others to not use. So it’s confusing but totally up to you. |
It’s not confusing because I was talking about two separate issues. I think the hate is keeping you from seeing that. I point out his 3–1 record this postseason and it seems to bother you. Interesting.
Use 2018 and 2019 for what? Depends on what is being discussed. If I want to talk about his rookie year do I have to use stats from 2018 and 2019?
2016 stats count for Kobe, but if a hater used those stats to try and make him look bad I probably wouldn’t take that person seriously. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | It’s not confusing because I was talking about two separate issues. I think the hate is keeping you from seeing that. I point out his 3–1 record this postseason and it seems to bother you. Interesting.
Use 2018 and 2019 for what? Depends on what is being discussed. If I want to talk about his rookie year do I have to use stats from 2018 and 2019?
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| Steve007 wrote: | Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:09 am (pg. 82)
Kershaw significantly declined in 2018 and 2019, even in the regular season. So his playoff performances can be explained by saying his stuff got worse and he had a horrible series against the Red Sox.
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On Oct 9, 2020 at 9:09am, whatever point you were trying to make. When you said that 2018 and 2019 can be explained... yada yada yada
Did you want us to use his 2018 and 2019 playoff stats AGAINST him or not?
Easy question...
And the followup question would be: if you don't want others to use his 2018 and 2019 playoff stats AGAINST him, is it fair when you continually use it FOR him? Again, simple easy questions.
Or, put another way, when you want to talk about his ERA, which years do you want to use? And when you’re talking about his W-L record, which years do you want to use?
Seems they are different years. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | It’s not confusing because I was talking about two separate issues. I think the hate is keeping you from seeing that. I point out his 3–1 record this postseason and it seems to bother you. Interesting.
Use 2018 and 2019 for what? Depends on what is being discussed. If I want to talk about his rookie year do I have to use stats from 2018 and 2019?
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| Steve007 wrote: | Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:09 am (pg. 82)
Kershaw significantly declined in 2018 and 2019, even in the regular season. So his playoff performances can be explained by saying his stuff got worse and he had a horrible series against the Red Sox.
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On Oct 9, 2020 at 9:09am, whatever point you were trying to make. When you said that 2018 and 2019 can be explained... yada yada |
His regular season era in 2018 and 2019 was the highest it had been since 2010. Anyone that watched him those years, whether it was regular season or playoffs, could tell he wasn’t pitching at the same level. I’m sure you noticed it too. What is so hard to understand?
| Quote: | Did you want us to use his 2018 and 2019 playoff stats AGAINST him or not?
Easy question... |
See this is part of the problem here. It’s a hater mentality. You see things as black and white. If someone says something positive, they are a supporter. If they say something negative, they are a hater. And in your world, you have to be a supporter or a hater 100% of the time.
I don’t see things that way, so I will praise players and criticize the same players without any hesitation. Your questions are nonsensical to me. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16208
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | It’s not confusing because I was talking about two separate issues. I think the hate is keeping you from seeing that. I point out his 3–1 record this postseason and it seems to bother you. Interesting.
Use 2018 and 2019 for what? Depends on what is being discussed. If I want to talk about his rookie year do I have to use stats from 2018 and 2019?
. |
| Steve007 wrote: | Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:09 am (pg. 82)
Kershaw significantly declined in 2018 and 2019, even in the regular season. So his playoff performances can be explained by saying his stuff got worse and he had a horrible series against the Red Sox.
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On Oct 9, 2020 at 9:09am, whatever point you were trying to make. When you said that 2018 and 2019 can be explained... yada yada |
His regular season era in 2018 and 2019 was the highest it had been since 2010. Anyone that watched him those years, whether it was regular season or playoffs, could tell he wasn’t pitching at the same level. I’m sure you noticed it too. What is so hard to understand?
| Quote: | Did you want us to use his 2018 and 2019 playoff stats AGAINST him or not?
Easy question... |
See this is part of the problem here. It’s a hater mentality. You see things as black and white. If someone says something positive, they are a supporter. If they say something negative, they are a hater. And in your world, you have to be a supporter or a hater 100% of the time.
I don’t see things that way, so I will praise players and criticize the same players without any hesitation. Your questions are nonsensical to me. |
Nonsensical as it may be, I’m still quite unclear.
Yes or no, is it ok to point to his postseason ERA for the years 2018 n 2019?
Black or white as I may be, I’m just simply trying to find out that when discussing Kershaw with YOU, is it ok to point to his 2018 n 2019 postseason numbers?
I’m just simply trying to find out the parameters of the discussion. |
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32
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Let's go Dodgers!
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Let's go Dodgers! |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Let's go Dodgers! |
Huge game. If they can beat Buehler tonight, that gives them a huge edge for the series. |
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aprevo15
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Let's go Dodgers! |
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| aprevo15 wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Let's go Dodgers! |
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