2020 LA Dodgers Thread
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject:

^
He has no business being in the major leagues. The defensive value of Barnes and Smith last year was basically a dead heat by dWAR, even though Barnes caught 121.2 more innings than Smith did. Now think about Barnes as a hitter.

When was the last time he hit a ball hard? I've seen him get up in the count 2-0 twice on this road trip and both times he hit a weak pop-up to 2nd base into the short outfield grass, swinging at pitches out of the zone. He either strikes out or makes insanely weak contact almost every time. Last night he actually hit a ball to fairly deep CF for an easy flyout and I was happy with that because it was so different from what he normally does. I realize the value of pitch-framing in today's game, although within a few years I believe they may have an electronic strike-calling system which will render that skill moot.

Anyway, you can't have a hitter this bad in your lineup. It has a ripple effect. Not only are you giving away an out at the bottom of the lineup, but the other team knows it can pitch around the hitter in front of him. I saw the Padres do that last night, where Lamet didn't give Kike anything to hit--with a man already on--and then predictably struck Barnes out to end the inning. It really is like having the pitcher hitting, and it's a huge handicap.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:13 pm    Post subject:

This is the Dodgers main catchers from 2019 showing innings, framing and defense as determined by FanGraphs.

Code:
1   Austin Barnes   C   524.2   5.8    10.3
2   RussellMartin   C   486.0   5.6     8.8
3   Will    Smith   C   403.0   0.0     3.4

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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
This is the Dodgers main catchers from 2019 showing innings, framing and defense as determined by FanGraphs.

Code:
1   Austin Barnes   C   524.2   5.8    10.3
2   RussellMartin   C   486.0   5.6     8.8
3   Will    Smith   C   403.0   0.0     3.4


I saw that. Baseball Reference had Barnes and Smith practically even, as defensive metrics can vary, as can WAR. Heck, I'm willing to grant the point that Barnes is a better defensive catcher and framer. Fine. But he still should not be anything but Clayton Kershaw's personal catcher. You can't have a hitter that feeble in your lineup, and there are reasons that guys get benched if they are hitting .200 in June during a normal season. You still have to hit at least a little bit at the big league level. I keep harping on this, but it truly is like having the pitcher's spot up, and it affects about 1/3 of the innings a lot, and that's just way too much. There's a reason that pitchers have traditionally done better in the NL than the AL, and that's because of the pitcher's spot in the order. That's basically what we're doing when Barnes plays.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:01 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
ribeye wrote:
This is the Dodgers main catchers from 2019 showing innings, framing and defense as determined by FanGraphs.

Code:
1   Austin Barnes   C   524.2   5.8    10.3
2   RussellMartin   C   486.0   5.6     8.8
3   Will    Smith   C   403.0   0.0     3.4


I saw that. Baseball Reference had Barnes and Smith practically even, as defensive metrics can vary, as can WAR. Heck, I'm willing to grant the point that Barnes is a better defensive catcher and framer. Fine. But he still should not be anything but Clayton Kershaw's personal catcher. You can't have a hitter that feeble in your lineup, and there are reasons that guys get benched if they are hitting .200 in June during a normal season. You still have to hit at least a little bit at the big league level. I keep harping on this, but it truly is like having the pitcher's spot up, and it affects about 1/3 of the innings a lot, and that's just way too much. There's a reason that pitchers have traditionally done better in the NL than the AL, and that's because of the pitcher's spot in the order. That's basically what we're doing when Barnes plays.


I think you make a fair point. My thinking is that Roberts wants to get the pitchers comfortable and have confidence and feels Barnes is the best choice right off the bat. I'm guessin' Will Smith will become the regular catcher soon--and does soon mean something completely different these days.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:01 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
ribeye wrote:
This is the Dodgers main catchers from 2019 showing innings, framing and defense as determined by FanGraphs.

Code:
1   Austin Barnes   C   524.2   5.8    10.3
2   RussellMartin   C   486.0   5.6     8.8
3   Will    Smith   C   403.0   0.0     3.4


I saw that. Baseball Reference had Barnes and Smith practically even, as defensive metrics can vary, as can WAR. Heck, I'm willing to grant the point that Barnes is a better defensive catcher and framer. Fine. But he still should not be anything but Clayton Kershaw's personal catcher. You can't have a hitter that feeble in your lineup, and there are reasons that guys get benched if they are hitting .200 in June during a normal season. You still have to hit at least a little bit at the big league level. I keep harping on this, but it truly is like having the pitcher's spot up, and it affects about 1/3 of the innings a lot, and that's just way too much. There's a reason that pitchers have traditionally done better in the NL than the AL, and that's because of the pitcher's spot in the order. That's basically what we're doing when Barnes plays.


I think you make a fair point. My thinking is that Roberts wants to get the pitchers comfortable and have confidence and feels Barnes is the best choice right off the bat. I'm guessin' Will Smith will become the regular catcher soon--and does soon mean something completely different these days.


Yeah it does seem that Barnes is the designated catcher for Mays and Gonsolin.

Is he also the catcher for Kershaw?

Guess we feel we have enough offense and we want the starters to feel comfortable.

There’s a problem I see with starting Barnes early in the season: If he’s the designated catcher for a particular starter and that starter doesn’t go deep (i.e. only 3-4 ip), then he stays in for the rest of the game because we don’t want to burn both catchers in the same game.

Another problem I fear is, due to the short season, I don’t think they’ll have time to “ween” any starters off of Barnes and onto Smith. That means that if Mays/Gonsolin starts in the playoffs, we’ll see Barnes starting as well. And if he starts, then he’s going to play the entire game even after the starter exits.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject:

Roberts said the other day that he expects Smith to play most of the time as the season progresses, but that he wants to keep it close to 50/50 at the start of the season.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:09 pm    Post subject:

There was some concern that Rios hurt his foot/toe after fouling a ball off that area, so this is good...


David Vassegh
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5m
Edwin Rios looks fine today taking BP and putting on a show.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject:

Lineup today:

Pollock
Muncy
Turner
Bellinger
Seager
Taylor
Pederson
Smith
Hernandez
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject:

We also called up McKinstry, sending down young lefty Victor Gonzalez. I really liked his AB's from the exhibition games that I saw. Could be a younger version of Beaty, perhaps with more power. It may only be for this one day, though. He could get a PH appearance today for sure. On Friday, rosters drop down to 28, so we'll see what happens there. Roberts suggested that a couple of pitchers may be the ones dropped.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:24 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Lineup today:

Pollock
Muncy
Turner
Bellinger
Seager
Taylor
Pederson
Smith
Hernandez


What a silly line-up. How is seager not second? AJ and Corey are en fuego. If we line them up, you have to pitch to one of them, or risk having them both take walks with JT, belli, and one of Joc, muncy, or Taylor following and no outs. But instead he tosses struggling muncy, which means AJ is getting pitched around, Muncy is taking strikes, and JT's coming up with one out and one on. And with Seager low, the odds of him coming to bat with runners on are slim. So he's getting pitched around. And Taylor Pederson Smith Hernandez . . . love all of those dudes, they can easily carry a lineup, but my god if that doesn't have massive blackhole potential all over it.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Lineup today:

Pollock
Muncy
Turner
Bellinger
Seager
Taylor
Pederson
Smith
Hernandez


What a silly line-up. How is seager not second? AJ and Corey are en fuego. If we line them up, you have to pitch to one of them, or risk having them both take walks with JT, belli, and one of Joc, muncy, or Taylor following and no outs. But instead he tosses struggling muncy, which means AJ is getting pitched around, Muncy is taking strikes, and JT's coming up with one out and one on. And with Seager low, the odds of him coming to bat with runners on are slim. So he's getting pitched around. And Taylor Pederson Smith Hernandez . . . love all of those dudes, they can easily carry a lineup, but my god if that doesn't have massive blackhole potential all over it.


Perhaps he wants protection for Bellinger. But yes, I'd have Seager batting 2nd as well.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject:

Smith finally gets one to drop, ironically on a ball not that well-hit, and it's 3-0 LA.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject:

Make that 4-0.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Stripling, cruising, just gave the Padres an absolute gift in the 5th. With 2 out and nobody on, he walks the #9 hitter, Profar, who was batting .082. Then throws Tatis an 0-2 inside fastball that he hits about 500 feet.

Awful, awful sequence there, and completely avoidable. Oh, and Dodger pitchers continue to throw 0-2 strikes. Blows my mind.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Joc!

Time to move him up to 2nd in the order against righties, if Roberts wants Seager to protect Bellinger in the 5 spot. You have to move Muncy down. He's struggling big time.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject:

After giving up another 0-2 base hit to Myers to continue the inning, a 2-run double knocks Stripling out.

New rule: whenever a Dodger pitcher allows an 0-2 base hit, you have to drink. This is in addition to the rule where you have to drink when Austin Barnes strikes out.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:56 pm    Post subject:

Home run Wil Myers on an 0-2 fastball from Ferguson. Drink.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:18 pm    Post subject:

Jansen in some trouble, 1st and 3rd 1 out in the 9th. 7-5 score.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject:

0-2 pitch to Pham hit for a base hit off an inside fastball. Drink.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:26 pm    Post subject:

WOW! CT3 throws out Grisham at the plate after Machado lined out to left for a double play to end the game! An absolutely perfect one-hop throw.

We were lucky to get out of that with a win. Just kept letting them back in it and Jansen basically had nothing that inning. Held on by a thread.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject:

Great win...!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject:

We started the year bad - 2-2 vs. the Giants at home.

We were staring at a 9 game road trip: @Hou , @Ari , @SD

We finished off the trip 7-2 and it feels like we let 2 get away. Pretty successful road trip!
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:04 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
We started the year bad - 2-2 vs. the Giants at home.

We were staring at a 9 game road trip: @Hou , @Ari , @SD

We finished off the trip 7-2 and it feels like we let 2 get away. Pretty successful road trip!


Agreed.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:08 pm    Post subject:

Yes awesome save by CT3, the true closer (sorry Kenley).

Our lineup has gone for broke without Mookie. Hope his middle finger is all better by Friday as would give him 5 days rest from swinging a bat.

Muncy, JT and both catchers are hurting any chance for long innings. Maybe pull Muncy for Beaty or Rios is this slump goes past the weekend series.

Revised and hopeful order:

Mookie, rf
Seagar, ss
JT, 3b
Bellinger, cf
AJ, dh/lf
Muncy, 1b
Keekay/CT3, 2b
Joc, lf, dh
Smith/Barnes, c
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:21 pm    Post subject:

MookieBetts50 wrote:
Yes awesome saves by CT3, the true closer (sorry Kenley).

Our lineup has gone for broke without Mookie. Hope his middle finger is all better by Friday as would give him 5 days rest from swinging a bat.

Muncy, JT and both catchers are hurting any chance for long innings. Maybe pull Muncy for Beaty or Rios is this slump goes past the weekend series.

Revised and hopeful order:

Mookie, rf
Seagar, ss
JT, 3b
Bellinger, cf
AJ, dh/lf
Muncy, 1b
Keekay/CT3, 2b
Joc, lf, dh
Smith/Barnes, c


Smith is actually hitting the ball hard, just getting very unlucky so far. He's not overwhelmed in the box, and pitchers don't pitch around the hitter ahead of him in the lineup as a virtual escape hatch to get out of an inning. I'm not saying he's an elite hitter, but we don't need him to be. We just don't want a pitcher hitting lol, which Barnes essentially is.

I like the lineup above a lot, but I think I'd move Joc up. He just continues to mash right-handed pitching, and if they bring in a lefty later in a game and you PH for him, getting him a bit earlier in the lineup could make him more likely to get one more AB against the righty starter.
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