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oasisdude77
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject:

Pretty infuriating that this is going the route it is.

As much as I understand the owners position of losing a ton of money and asking the players to help them mitigate it, the players never got to recoup any of the enormous profits the owners have enjoyed the past decade or so.

But also, I feel the players need to work a bit more with the owners on the pro-rated instead of digging their heels in the sand. One report I read stated that the March 26th agreement allowed for some wiggle room on the 'pro-rated' percentage if there were no fans in the stands.

Bottom line, both sides need to freakin' compromise. I don't understand how hard it is to realize that both sides will not get everything they want. Just pay the players their full pro-rated salary deferring the money to a later time.

I still think they will come to a deal, but the face they are on the verge of being the only sport that can't return during this pandemic and it's because they can't agree on money?

To quote Kent Brockman from a Simpsons episode: 'Ladies and Gentleman, there is only one word for this: idiocy.'
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject:

oasisdude77 wrote:
.....they are on the verge of being the only sport that can't return during this pandemic and it's because they can't agree on money?


To be fair, they are the only major team sport dealing with the no fans issue for the regular season.

The NBA and NHL completed their regular season with fans in attendance so they have no issues with paying their players. Now, they are resuming the playoffs.

The NFL has yet to begin their season.

MLB has yet to begin their season as well. If MLB had completed the majority of their reg season like the NBA and NHL, they wouldn't be having this problem either.
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oasisdude77
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:46 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
oasisdude77 wrote:
.....they are on the verge of being the only sport that can't return during this pandemic and it's because they can't agree on money?


To be fair, they are the only major team sport dealing with the no fans issue for the regular season.

The NBA and NHL completed their regular season with fans in attendance so they have no issues with paying their players. Now, they are resuming the playoffs.

The NFL has yet to begin their season.

MLB has yet to begin their season as well. If MLB had completed the majority of their reg season like the NBA and NHL, they wouldn't be having this problem either.


Yeah, totally fair and accurate point.

But still a terrible look if they lose the season. Especially if the sports calendar permanently changes with NBA moving towards the summer.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:28 pm    Post subject:

Manfred is a complete disaster, and is the biggest reason that I have serious worry about a season happening. Also, if you'll notice, each proposal that the league has offered up essentially pays the players 33% of their salaries; it has just come in different forms. But that 33% number is what they are sticking to. For many players, it simply may not be worth it to play, when you factor everything in (including the health risk that they are taking). Think about it. If you're Mike Trout, with all the money he's guaranteed going forward, is it worth it? If you're a starting pitcher, is it worth it to ramp up for a potentially short season? Is the risk of injury in such circumstances far greater, and would it be better for them long-term to simply not play under these circumstances?
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Theseus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject:

Imagine Mike Trout snapping an achilles to make 33% of his salary in order to play an 80 game season.

Its just not worth it for the big stars to be playing, I totally get them holding out, if its them that are the ones holding out.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject:

I can see both sides perspective but both sides need to tread carefully here. The optics of a cancelled season today would be exponentially worse than the 94 strike.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:03 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
I can see both sides perspective but both sides need to tread carefully here. The optics of a cancelled season today would be exponentially worse than the 94 strike.


Totally agree. MLB might be higher than NBA in revenue, but I've argued that it's actually the third-most popular sport here now. If they have a canceled season, they run the risk of really getting left in the NBA's dust. Especially if the NBA permanently flips the calendar to start its season in December, basically meaning that football and basketball overlap without really stepping on the other's toes. A struggling baseball would then have summer competition with the NBA.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject:

Theseus wrote:
Imagine Mike Trout snapping an achilles to make 33% of his salary in order to play an 80 game season.

Its just not worth it for the big stars to be playing, I totally get them holding out, if its them that are the ones holding out.


I'm guessing Mike Trout loves to play the game, period. Considering he has a pretty good contract, I don't see him sitting out.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:30 pm    Post subject:

Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt said that the baseball industry "isn't very profitable." LOL why are they so full of sh*t?!?!
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:34 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Theseus wrote:
Imagine Mike Trout snapping an achilles to make 33% of his salary in order to play an 80 game season.

Its just not worth it for the big stars to be playing, I totally get them holding out, if its them that are the ones holding out.


I'm guessing Mike Trout loves to play the game, period. Considering he has a pretty good contract, I don't see him sitting out.


I can see pitchers being concerned but every day players? I mean, I suppose when you're worth that much $, even the slightest risk of injury has to be weighed. That said, the players are more apt to get injured doing a HIIT routine than the few times they actually go all out during a game.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt said that the baseball industry "isn't very profitable." LOL why are they so full of sh*t?!?!


How does baseball have so many good TV deals? Every time I look, their ratings by and large are God awful.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt said that the baseball industry "isn't very profitable." LOL why are they so full of sh*t?!?!


DeWitt's remark is so very Trumpian:

How much profit might MLB owners make by selling their teams?

Quote:
Owner David Glass is negotiating a potential sale of the team to Kansas City energy magnate John Sherman, as first reported by The Athletic. Glass, Walmart’s former CEO, purchased the club for $96 million in 2000.

In April, Forbes estimated the Royals’ franchise value at $1.1 billion. If you’re handy with a calculator, the numbers do not lie: Glass, in that scenario, would net nearly [One b-i-l-l-i-o-n dollars] from the sale.
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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:09 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt said that the baseball industry "isn't very profitable." LOL why are they so full of sh*t?!?!


How does baseball have so many good TV deals? Every time I look, their ratings by and large are God awful.


Live sports are like the only thing that makes money on TV any more, and baseball has 162 games. Local ratings are usually pretty good; national ratings are mediocre -- people generally only care about their own teams.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:22 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt said that the baseball industry "isn't very profitable." LOL why are they so full of sh*t?!?!


DeWitt's remark is so very Trumpian:

How much profit might MLB owners make by selling their teams?

Quote:
Owner David Glass is negotiating a potential sale of the team to Kansas City energy magnate John Sherman, as first reported by The Athletic. Glass, Walmart’s former CEO, purchased the club for $96 million in 2000.

In April, Forbes estimated the Royals’ franchise value at $1.1 billion. If you’re handy with a calculator, the numbers do not lie: Glass, in that scenario, would net nearly [One b-i-l-l-i-o-n dollars] from the sale.


That # is going to sell for closer to 2 billion imo. Those Forbes estimates with very, very rare exceptions are way lower than what teams sell for.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:16 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt said that the baseball industry "isn't very profitable." LOL why are they so full of sh*t?!?!


How does baseball have so many good TV deals? Every time I look, their ratings by and large are God awful.


MLB is one of the big league sports in the American sports landscape, they can rely on both local and national TV deals. When one thinks of the seasons of sports in the USA, they usually think of NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL. Yes, MLB is no longer top dog compared to the NFL or even NBA, but they still command attention from the casual sports viewer.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:41 pm    Post subject:

I think we're getting closer and closer to an MLB-imposed 48-game season. I don't even know how invested I could be in that, and I love baseball.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:47 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I think we're getting closer and closer to an MLB-imposed 48-game season. I don't even know how invested I could be in that, and I love baseball.



I wouldn't care about the season tbh. Why can't they just push things back the way the NBA is doing. Truncating the season is one thing but 48 games? Man, that's almost irrelevant in baseball. 12-15 series? Come on...
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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:41 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
I think we're getting closer and closer to an MLB-imposed 48-game season. I don't even know how invested I could be in that, and I love baseball.



I wouldn't care about the season tbh. Why can't they just push things back the way the NBA is doing. Truncating the season is one thing but 48 games? Man, that's almost irrelevant in baseball. 12-15 series? Come on...


Agreed. Ridiculous.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:49 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
I think we're getting closer and closer to an MLB-imposed 48-game season. I don't even know how invested I could be in that, and I love baseball.



I wouldn't care about the season tbh. Why can't they just push things back the way the NBA is doing. Truncating the season is one thing but 48 games? Man, that's almost irrelevant in baseball. 12-15 series? Come on...


Because the owners are "losing too much money" to be able to play more games LOL. Seems to me like they should just play half a season and give the players half of their salaries. So the owners will incur some slight losses. Look at what their franchises are worth. I say, suck it up. I heard Gene Orza as a guest on the Mason & Ireland show on 710 earlier today (he used to be the COO for the MLBPA and is very familiar with labor negotiations), and he said something that struck me. He said that the owners want to privatize profits while socializing losses.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:11 am    Post subject:

Imagine a 24 game NBA season. Seriously...w t f.

Or a 3 game college football season. Or a 4 game football season. Dude...
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:16 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Imagine a 24 game NBA season. Seriously...w t f.

Or a 3 game college football season. Or a 4 game football season. Dude...


Yes they don't realize how dumb it looks. Seriously, anyone could have a hot month and ride that to a playoff appearance.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:26 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Imagine a 24 game NBA season. Seriously...w t f.

Or a 3 game college football season. Or a 4 game football season. Dude...


Yes they don't realize how dumb it looks. Seriously, anyone could have a hot month and ride that to a playoff appearance.


Even half a season isn't enough. This is just silly. In the middle of a pandemic with viewing habits changing even before this, they want to play a game of chicken? 100 games minimum. Make it happen. Or don't. With everything going on in the world and the multitude of ways to occupy my time, if baseball goes, I'd honestly be done with it.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:52 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Imagine a 24 game NBA season. Seriously...w t f.

Or a 3 game college football season. Or a 4 game football season. Dude...


Yes they don't realize how dumb it looks. Seriously, anyone could have a hot month and ride that to a playoff appearance.


Even half a season isn't enough. This is just silly. In the middle of a pandemic with viewing habits changing even before this, they want to play a game of chicken? 100 games minimum. Make it happen. Or don't. With everything going on in the world and the multitude of ways to occupy my time, if baseball goes, I'd honestly be done with it.


It's an arbitrary number for me, but I'd accept half of a season plus some expanded playoffs. That's my cut-off point.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:58 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
I think we're getting closer and closer to an MLB-imposed 48-game season. I don't even know how invested I could be in that, and I love baseball.



I wouldn't care about the season tbh. Why can't they just push things back the way the NBA is doing. Truncating the season is one thing but 48 games? Man, that's almost irrelevant in baseball. 12-15 series? Come on...


Because the owners are "losing too much money" to be able to play more games LOL. Seems to me like they should just play half a season and give the players half of their salaries. So the owners will incur some slight losses. Look at what their franchises are worth. I say, suck it up. I heard Gene Orza as a guest on the Mason & Ireland show on 710 earlier today (he used to be the COO for the MLBPA and is very familiar with labor negotiations), and he said something that struck me. He said that the owners want to privatize profits while socializing losses.


Their franchises are worth operating revenue unless they sell them.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:42 am    Post subject:

You might as well just hold a tournament if you are proposing a 48 game season. Just not enough games to make it worthwhile.
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