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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
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San Diego Padres right-hander Mike Clevinger is set to undergo Tommy John surgery on Tuesday and is expected to miss the entirety of the 2021 season.


I think it’s malpractice how they rushed him back for the playoffs and now he needs TJ.


Again, just speculation on my part, but I bet they knew what the risks were and that he essentially already had the torn ligament and would try to get through a few more postseason starts pitching with it. Some pitchers have been able to do so. Had they just shut him down and let's say he doesn't pick up a ball until February 2021, and then the issues crop back up, now you have delayed getting the surgery long enough to where the early part of 2022 might be a question mark. Wouldn't surprise me if his agent and the team already had parameters worked out for a 2-year deal in the likely event that he would turn out to need the surgery. They probably figured that there was no risk of further damage to the ligament if he tried to pitch through it, and if he couldn't, at least he could have the surgery now.


Could be. Remember, you also had a theory that Cleveland traded him as damaged goods and that’s why the price was so low.

It just seems like everyone is using Clevinger w/o regards to his own well being.

If all this was true, somehow his agent needed to step in and stop this. If Clevinger was hurt, there was nothing to gain by trying to pitch. Someone needed to look out for Clevinger. Either himself or his agent. The guy’s a talent that blossomed late and has never gotten paid.

I remember when Matt Harvey was dealing and the Mets were playoff bound and he was approaching 180ip. His agent put his foot down and wanted the Mets to adhere to that innings limit. Someone needed to step up for Clevinger.

If his injury went all the way back to Cleveland, then he should have been shut down a long time ago. Especially when he’s describing the feeling of pitching like 2 bones colliding. That just can’t be good.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:01 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:

San Diego Padres right-hander Mike Clevinger is set to undergo Tommy John surgery on Tuesday and is expected to miss the entirety of the 2021 season.


I think it’s malpractice how they rushed him back for the playoffs and now he needs TJ.


Again, just speculation on my part, but I bet they knew what the risks were and that he essentially already had the torn ligament and would try to get through a few more postseason starts pitching with it. Some pitchers have been able to do so. Had they just shut him down and let's say he doesn't pick up a ball until February 2021, and then the issues crop back up, now you have delayed getting the surgery long enough to where the early part of 2022 might be a question mark. Wouldn't surprise me if his agent and the team already had parameters worked out for a 2-year deal in the likely event that he would turn out to need the surgery. They probably figured that there was no risk of further damage to the ligament if he tried to pitch through it, and if he couldn't, at least he could have the surgery now.


Could be. Remember, you also had a theory that Cleveland traded him as damaged goods and that’s why the price was so low.

It just seems like everyone is using Clevinger w/o regards to his own well being.

If all this was true, somehow his agent needed to step in and stop this. If Clevinger was hurt, there was nothing to gain by trying to pitch. Someone needed to look out for Clevinger. Either himself or his agent. The guy’s a talent that blossomed late and has never gotten paid.

I remember when Matt Harvey was dealing and the Mets were playoff bound and he was approaching 180ip. His agent put his foot down and wanted the Mets to adhere to that innings limit. Someone needed to step up for Clevinger.

If his injury went all the way back to Cleveland, then he should have been shut down a long time ago. Especially when he’s describing the feeling of pitching like 2 bones colliding. That just can’t be good.


I had forgotten about the damaged goods theory. Maybe it was a case of other teams knowing that he was essentially a ticking time bomb, and that the Padres were simply the one that had the best bid in light of that. The Angels, and other teams, were aware that Shohei Ohtani had a partially torn UCL before he first came stateside. As we know, he didn't last too long as a pitcher before the UCL blew out.

Maybe Clevinger's injury wasn't a surprise, and the doctors told them that there was no further risk of serious injury by attempting to pitch through it. Just total speculation, though. I certainly hope it was that. Otherwise, you're absolutely right that this is a total disregard for his health. It's for that reason that I think it's the former, and not the latter. I know that pro athletes are huge competitors, but I doubt that he would have been allowed to pitch by his agent if simple rest would have made him as good as new next season.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:30 pm    Post subject:

Cano, dontcha know!


Jeff Passan
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BREAKING: New York Mets second baseman Robinson Cano has tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season, sources familiar with the situation tell ESPN. He will forfeit a $24 million salary. News story will be up soon at ESPN.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I had forgotten about the damaged goods theory. Maybe it was a case of other teams knowing that he was essentially a ticking time bomb, and that the Padres were simply the one that had the best bid in light of that. The Angels, and other teams, were aware that Shohei Ohtani had a partially torn UCL before he first came stateside. As we know, he didn't last too long as a pitcher before the UCL blew out.

Maybe Clevinger's injury wasn't a surprise, and the doctors told them that there was no further risk of serious injury by attempting to pitch through it. Just total speculation, though. I certainly hope it was that. Otherwise, you're absolutely right that this is a total disregard for his health. It's for that reason that I think it's the former, and not the latter. I know that pro athletes are huge competitors, but I doubt that he would have been allowed to pitch by his agent if simple rest would have made him as good as new next season.


Here’s what doesn’t add up for me:

1) They shut him down at the end of the season following his final start. Reports are they feared a major injury but after MRI, it’s said that it’s minor and he could possibly pitch in the playoffs.

2) They gave him cortisone shots hoping he could pitch in the playoffs. This means that he was feeling some pain still?

“ Padres right-hander receives injection that could help him pitch by next week

Mike Clevinger got a cortisone injection Friday that the Padres hope will allow the right-hander to pitch in the postseason.”

3) He ends up being left off the playoff roster (wild card round)

4) Less than a week later, he is ready for the NLDS. Not only that, but the game 1 starter. A decision they didn’t make the decision until the day of the start of the series.

5) They make him the game 1 starter. They could have chosen any other game but game 1 was the most crucial for them. Choosing any other game would have given him more rest.

6) He gets hurt after 1ip

Yeah, none of this feels right to me. Alot of the decisions seem like the best interests of the Padres. None of it feels like they were looking out for Clevinger.
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4stargeneralbulldog
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Cano, dontcha know!


Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
48s
BREAKING: New York Mets second baseman Robinson Cano has tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season, sources familiar with the situation tell ESPN. He will forfeit a $24 million salary. News story will be up soon at ESPN.


Wow! I have to say, I am glad that baseball really implemented strict and harsh penalties for PED usage. Probably the toughest out of the 4 major North American sports leagues.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:42 pm    Post subject:

4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Cano, dontcha know!


Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
48s
BREAKING: New York Mets second baseman Robinson Cano has tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season, sources familiar with the situation tell ESPN. He will forfeit a $24 million salary. News story will be up soon at ESPN.


Wow! I have to say, I am glad that baseball really implemented strict and harsh penalties for PED usage. Probably the toughest out of the 4 major North American sports leagues.


This is a huge break for the Mets for the 2021 season, even though they still owe Cano for the 2022 and 2023 seasons. They get to wipe what they were scheduled to pay him (about $20MM, with the Mariners paying about $4MM) off their books, which means they can now spend even more this winter. And they were already likely to spend big, given that the new owner has deep pockets.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:20 am    Post subject:

Dude had a guaranteed contract. $24M is alot of money. Why mess with that?
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi

Sources: #Nats are considering a trade for #Cubs 3B Kris Bryant, among numerous hitters they’re currently monitoring on the market. Free agent DJ LeMahieu is another option, as I reported earlier today on
@MLBNetwork

2:25 PM · Nov 20, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:24 pm    Post subject:

Cardinals traded for Arenado. They gave up a bunch of prospects, not one of them in their top ten. They also got 50 million in cash back.

Arenado has been one of my favorite players not on the Cardinals, and I've always dreamed he would come here. Seems unreal.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject:

I can't believe that the Angels just keep doing the same thing year after year. They just try to piece together starting rotations with duct tape, seemingly amassing as many #4/5 starter types as they can. After a move to acquire ho-hum starter Alex Cobb today, they've now added Cobb and free agent signee Jose Quintana to their rotation this offseason. To say this is underwhelming is a big understatement. Of all of their rotation options -- Bundy, Heaney, Canning, Cobb, Quintana, Barria, Sandoval -- only Bundy really has any semblance of upside for being a #2 starter, and last year's small sample size and his previous track record could easily mean he's more #4/5 starter than #2 starter again. I suppose you could throw Ohtani in there, but he couldn't get through 2 starts last season before his arm starting barking at him again. The odds of him hitting on his pitching promise are growing smaller by the hour.

This is what I mean by saying the Angels are the anti-Rams. They have this generational player in Trout, they have a clear need for an ace starter, and for years now, they just can't get something done, whether it's paying the necessary big bucks for a free agent, or swallowing hard and trading top prospects for an ace. (They didn't really have the ability to trade top prospects for an ace from 2015-2019, as their farm system was barren, but it's recovered over the last 2 seasons to where they could have.) The Angels are just spinning their wheels. They would truly be better off by trading Trout for a stunning haul of assets. They aren't going anywhere by operating their franchise this way.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject:

Well, speaking of the Angels, their pitching coach, Mickey Callaway, is apparently being accused of unwanted sexual advances by SEVEN different women. Of course, this comes in the wake of the Mets hiring and then firing former GM Jared Porter rather quickly once those sordid facts came to light. That was one woman. Here we have seven.

I can't imagine that the Angels will be employing Callaway in 48 hours' time, and this is the guy that is keeping Trevor Bauer from considering the Angels in free agency because they can't stand each other. Perhaps if Callaway is sacked, Bauer will reconsider!

EDIT: Apparently it's five women accusing him, but seven others have said that they were "cautioned" about him. Regardless, he's going to get fired.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject:

I always thought the Angels picked up those questionable starters out of desperation. When your pitching is horrendous, you’re more willing to pick those guys up and hope you luck out. Doesn’t seem like a winning plan though obviously.

Even if the team signed Cole last year I still thought the rotation would suck because who else would the team have besides him? Still would have been a lot better than nothing though.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:50 pm    Post subject:

The Angels have traded for Dexter Fowler, with the Cardinals apparently paying much of his salary this year. They better be, given Fowler's 0 WAR from last season.

New Angels GM Perry Minasian has now acquired Alex Cobb, Jose Quintana, Jose Iglesias, Raisel Iglesias, Alex Claudio, and Fowler this offseason. Perhaps Minasian means "mediocre" in Armenian.

EDIT: Forgot Kurt Suzuki on that list. Fits the bill.
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Theseus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:18 pm    Post subject:

Really surprised the Cardinals unloaded Fowler. I like Fowler, but the Cardinals have a lot of OFs that should be playing over him, if only just to develop them.

Fowler will probably get to play in LAA more than in STL. Hopefully he can put together a good year
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject:

Theseus wrote:
Really surprised the Cardinals unloaded Fowler. I like Fowler, but the Cardinals have a lot of OFs that should be playing over him, if only just to develop them.

Fowler will probably get to play in LAA more than in STL. Hopefully he can put together a good year


Unless he completely embarrasses himself in spring training -- not out of the question -- he'll probably be the Opening Day right fielder for the Angels. However, given his 0 WAR last season and given that he's been pretty bad for a while now, it's totally possible that he plays his way out of the gig, and that the Angels revert back to Jo Adell, assuming he's still on the roster. If he's not, then maybe Brandon Marsh would get a shot.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:45 pm    Post subject:

Marcell Ozuna back to the Braves, 4 years and $64MM.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:47 am    Post subject:

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MLB, MLBPA agree to health protocols, 7-inning doubleheaders, runners on second in extras

NEW YORK -- Seven-inning doubleheaders and runners on second base to start extra innings will return for a second straight season under an agreement for 2021 health protocols reached Monday between Major League Baseball and the players' association.

The deal did not include last year's experimental rule to extend the designated hitter to the National League or expanded playoffs.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:05 am    Post subject:

I’m probably in the minority but I do like the runner on second for extras, but maybe for regular season only.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:14 pm    Post subject:

4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Cano, dontcha know!


Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
48s
BREAKING: New York Mets second baseman Robinson Cano has tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season, sources familiar with the situation tell ESPN. He will forfeit a $24 million salary. News story will be up soon at ESPN.


Wow! I have to say, I am glad that baseball really implemented strict and harsh penalties for PED usage. Probably the toughest out of the 4 major North American sports leagues.


I think this is strike two for Cano. I believe he was also caught and suspended during one of his seasons with Seattle. Cano is a big airhead, I think he’s the only guy I’ve ever seen strike out on a HBP.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:42 pm    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Cano, dontcha know!


Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
48s
BREAKING: New York Mets second baseman Robinson Cano has tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season, sources familiar with the situation tell ESPN. He will forfeit a $24 million salary. News story will be up soon at ESPN.


Wow! I have to say, I am glad that baseball really implemented strict and harsh penalties for PED usage. Probably the toughest out of the 4 major North American sports leagues.


I think this is strike two for Cano. I believe he was also caught and suspended during one of his seasons with Seattle. Cano is a big airhead, I think he’s the only guy I’ve ever seen strike out on a HBP.


I saw a guy get HBP and refused to take it and tried to argue it didnt hit him: Albert Belle. To me the greatest and best pure power hitter of the 90s who combined average and power like no one else (without roids of course). Belle was clearly a better hitter than Bonds, Thomas, Griffey and Piazza if we assume that all are unroided.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
panamaniac wrote:
4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Cano, dontcha know!


Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
48s
BREAKING: New York Mets second baseman Robinson Cano has tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season, sources familiar with the situation tell ESPN. He will forfeit a $24 million salary. News story will be up soon at ESPN.


Wow! I have to say, I am glad that baseball really implemented strict and harsh penalties for PED usage. Probably the toughest out of the 4 major North American sports leagues.


I think this is strike two for Cano. I believe he was also caught and suspended during one of his seasons with Seattle. Cano is a big airhead, I think he’s the only guy I’ve ever seen strike out on a HBP.


I saw a guy get HBP and refused to take it and tried to argue it didnt hit him: Albert Belle. To me the greatest and best pure power hitter of the 90s who combined average and power like no one else (without roids of course). Belle was clearly a better hitter than Bonds, Thomas, Griffey and Piazza if we assume that all are unroided.


Frank Thomas is one of the most underrated hitters of the last 30 years. I know he was a DH for much of his career, but he was basically Edgar Martinez (a hitter I absolutely love) but with a lot more power. Thomas put up an OPS + of 156 for his career. Led the league in OBP four times and in OPS four times. Had more walks than strikeouts in his career.

Belle led the league in OPS once, and though I agree that he was a truly fearsome hitter in his prime, he didn't get on base at an elite rate like Thomas did, and that is the biggest difference. He did outslug Thomas by a little bit and his OPS + of 144 is really good.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:12 pm    Post subject:

CA Gov. Newsom announces that fans will be allowed back into ballparks in time for Opening Day. However, the number of fans allowed will depend on what tier each county is in with respect to COVID. The Angels, in Orange County, will apparently be allowed fans at up to 20% capacity at first, meaning about 8K fans or so. The Dodgers, in LA County, will only be allowed up to 100 fans, as it stands right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:05 am    Post subject:

So are dodgers opening day/banner raising tickets going to re-sell for 10-20k? More? Or does the team wait until a full stadium to do the ceremony?
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